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TEMPLARDAWG
17-10-2007, 20:51
for a 2000pt IG list. I have a list that has 33 plasma guns. (I can post the list if you would like.) I just couldn't think of a better way to handle marines.

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HowlingBanshee23
17-10-2007, 20:54
TEMPLARDAWG: Must make games against Orks, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, Tau, Eldar, and Dark Eldar hard!

trigger
17-10-2007, 20:57
ouch!!!!

I would say your pushing the boat out a bit there.....

Just out of curiosity what do you do if you end up useing that list against orks or nids????????

Do you rite a list for each new oponant you play or do you use the same list for the day/evening/morning(you get the idea)

Vaktathi
17-10-2007, 20:57
for a 2000pt IG list. I have a list that has 33 plasma guns. (I can post the list if you would like.) I just couldn't think of a better way to handle marines.

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there was a 1500pt list with 42 plasma guns posted a couple weeks ago, 33 in 2000pts for Guard I don't think is very overboard.

Kveld-Ulf
17-10-2007, 21:04
Have fun against Tyranids Endless Swarm.

Probably a bit much unless you plan on battling only SM and CSM. Maybe Necrons as well.

TEMPLARDAWG
17-10-2007, 21:11
I also have 7 heavy bolters, 2 battle cannons, 10 missile launchers, 1 hellhound.

<><

Mr Zephy
17-10-2007, 22:09
You can never have enough plasma. Seriously.

RampagingRavener
17-10-2007, 22:22
Pfft. I'm starting to kick ideas around for a Gaurd army, and if I have any Plasma Weapons at all, it'll be a single Plasma Pistol on the highest ranking Officer or Plasma Cannon Servitors with the Enginseer. As far as I'm concerned, Plasma Guns are boring and over-used. Flamers, Grenade Launchers, and Meltas are where it's at. :p

Xenocidal Maniac
17-10-2007, 22:23
Yep. It's true. You can never have too much plasma as Guard. I have a plasma heavy Guard army, too.

And all these people saying that you'll get rocked against Orks or Nids - ignore them. They don't know what they're talking about. Your army will do just fine against horde armies. Plasma guns can always find good targets, and if you're worried about hordes, that's what your Russes, Basilisks, and Hellhounds are there for.

Deafwing
17-10-2007, 22:26
You have too much plasma weaponry if:

-you're loosing more men than your opponent

-your guys are 1/2 charcoal

-none of your vehicles need spotlights, they can see just fine, thank you very much

-nighttime? we don't need no stinkin' nighttime!

floyd pinkerton
17-10-2007, 22:45
Never can you have enough plasma!

kazkal
17-10-2007, 22:59
Imperial Guard never needed search lights,their whole army is armed with flash lights.

nagash66
17-10-2007, 23:07
Imperial Guard never needed search lights,their whole army is armed with flash lights.

Ok I resent that, sure its only a str 3 ap- weapon sure the guy who carries it is less scary then a snotling, sure it have a medium range and tickles alot… but thats why we have 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 of them :D

Baneboss
17-10-2007, 23:29
There is no such thing as too much plasma. Its the best special weapon available to guard. Im not saying however some flamers dont have a place in there but its usually a deep striking Sentinel with HF.

Hulkster
17-10-2007, 23:31
Meh I'm not bothered. I peronsally like to mix things up in my armies (escept flamers on my crsis suits and multi-meltas in my dev squads, but that is another story)

my own guard arm, all I have made so far are grenade launchers and missile launchers

i only own 8 IG plasma guns and 2 of them are for Karskin

but each to there own

Purgator Sovereign
17-10-2007, 23:39
Don't they Get Hot? Wont' you end up losing about a sixth of them - maybe more if you're unlucky (and if you go "ha! We are closer than 12''! I figue I'll shoot twice with my plasma guns!")?

I know nothing about IG though, maybe the alternatives are even suckier :D

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 23:43
When I use them, I use a ratio of one plasma gun per platoon, maximum. Plasma pistols should be even rarer, perhaps one a company.

However, some regiments may have greater access to the rare and uncommon plasma weapons systems, particularly those raised from forge and hive worlds.

I would certainly never field 33 or 42 plasma guns in an army, because it contradicts the background in general and, moreover, is boring. I don't have a problem with anything other people do on that scale tho', although it pains me that more people don't follow the background properly.

TheOneWithNoName
17-10-2007, 23:53
Personally, I find my krak grenades bouncing off Marine armour time and time again more boring. :o

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 23:55
Really? I found it frustrating and then I learnt to relax and go with the flow; the Guard throw mud until it sticks and the enemy die. Takes a lot of mud, but it works. The odd plasma gun is there because it takes a hell of a lot to produce a PIG (Plasma - Infantry - Gun) and there's not enough to go around, so the 287th Generic Guard Rgt only get 12 rather than the 120 that they'd like.

Besides, your plasma gun isn't as good as a flamer for bunker-clearance, or a melta for short-range anti-tank work... or a GL for indirect explosive support. Etc. ;)

Hulkster
17-10-2007, 23:56
I'm with you steiner, TBH i love explosive stuff so I will prob have mostly Grenade Launchers and Missile launchers in my squads.

as I said before though each to there own.

I wonder how many people will complain though saying it is unfair without even playing it?

It also depends on how often you play MEQ. If I only played MEQ I might buy more, but for the time being I am happy with a mix.

TheOneWithNoName
17-10-2007, 23:59
Going by the fluff is fine and dandy, but that same fluff says there's only about 1000 SM chapters running around the galaxy and that SMs are not a common sight at all. So until that pans out in the real world, I think I'll stick with Plasma guns for every man that can carry them. :evilgrin:

Puffin Magician
18-10-2007, 00:00
You have too much Plasma if:
A) Plasma weapons outnumber any other non-standard infantry weapon, and/or
B) Their combined points comprise more than 5% of your army's total points.

As far as I'm concerned, Plasma Guns are boring and over-used. Flamers, Grenade Launchers, and Meltas are where it's at.Quoted for truth.

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 00:05
Going by the fluff is fine and dandy, but that same fluff says there's only about 1000 SM chapters running around the galaxy and that SMs are not a common sight at all. So until that pans out in the real world, I think I'll stick with Plasma guns for every man that can carry them. :evilgrin:

Two wrongs don't make a right, you loon. :p

If you want a really plasma-heavy army:

HQs with medic (PP), officer (PP), three PIGs. Commissar with PP.
Two SWS with 3x PIG each.
Platoons with a minimum of 5 PIGs and four PPs (Vet Sgts) and a max of 8 PIGs and 7 PPs.
Demolishers with Plasma sponsons.
Techpriests with Plascannon servitors.
Veterans with three PIGs and a PP.

Anything else? Oh yes, Rough Riders with a PP and two PIGs...

EDIT:

5,555th post!

Bunnahabhain
18-10-2007, 00:10
Gen steiner, you should be ashamed of yourself.
You forgot the Last chancers, with a further 6 plasma guns, and a plasma pistol...

Plasma guns are an unfortunate near necessity. Everything else that's any good at taking out Power armour is far too easily shaken, or is busy shooting at tanks...

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 00:12
Gen steiner, you should be ashamed of yourself.
You forgot the Last chancers, with a further 6 plasma guns, and a plasma pistol...

Ooh yeh! Forgot them...

mistformsquirrel
18-10-2007, 00:18
there was a 1500pt list with 42 plasma guns posted a couple weeks ago

... 42?!

That's more plasma guns than I have *marines* in my 1500pt list...

Kveld-Ulf
18-10-2007, 00:35
Apparently I don't know what I'm talking about because I think it's quite a bit. That's awful nice of someone to say.

It has it's uses. Personally, I think plasma is good for specialty, not for a backbone of an army. For whoever said it would do fine against a horde army, that's a bit ridiculous, but alright.

The other problem is you'll have to be shooting it between 12-24" range not considering plasma cannons. That's a bit close for a few really good shots for me. Maybe toss in some flamers for when someone gets closer to you. Even against a 3+ army a regular flamer will be worth it's point cost.

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 00:35
Well, let's see:

Not taking anything else at all and using only Junior Officers and Vet Sgts, I get:

HQ:
JO with PP and CCW, four Plasma Guns, Commissar with PP - 140pts (6 plasma weapons)

E1:
Techpriest with PP and one PCannon servitor - 100pts
Techpriest with PP and one PCannon servitor - 100pts (4 plasma weapons)

E2:
5 Vets with PP Sgt and three PGs - 85pts (4 plasma weapons)

E3:
5 Vets with PP Sgt and three PGs - 85pts (4 plasma weapons)

T1:
HQ as CHQ - 140pts (6 plasma weapons)
1st Squad: 10 men with Vet Sgt with PP and PG - 86pts
2nd Squad: 10 men with Vet Sgt with PP and PG - 86pts
3rd Squad: 10 men with Vet Sgt with PP and PG - 86pts
4th Squad: 10 men with Vet Sgt with PP and PG - 86pts
5th Squad: 10 men with Vet Sgt with PP and PG - 86pts (10 plasma weapons)
= 570

T2:
HQ as above - 140pts (6 plasma weapons)
1st to 3rd Squads: 10 men with Vet Sgt with PP and PG - 258pts (6 plasma weapons)

Total: 1,478pts - 22 left over. 46 plasma weapons. I'm sure you could fit more in somehow, just not certain how you could do it really.

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 01:02
Apparently I don't know what I'm talking about because I think it's quite a bit. That's awful nice of someone to say.

It has it's uses. Personally, I think plasma is good for specialty, not for a backbone of an army. For whoever said it would do fine against a horde army, that's a bit ridiculous, but alright.

The other problem is you'll have to be shooting it between 12-24" range not considering plasma cannons. That's a bit close for a few really good shots for me. Maybe toss in some flamers for when someone gets closer to you. Even against a 3+ army a regular flamer will be worth it's point cost.

That would be me.

Hmm. Strange. I run plasma heavy Guard, and I do just fine against horde armies. Sorry you think it's ridiculous, but it's true.

Do you even own a Guard army? From your other posts, it doesn't sound like you do. And, if you don't, then, I think it's fair for me to say you don't know what you're talking about.

Gen. Steiner - Sorry, but, screw the fluff. If plasma is so damned rare, why'd they allow every Guardsman and his uncle to carry a plasma gun in the codex? Ordinarily I care about fluff, but what's in the fluff and what's actually allowed with this codex are so contradictory that it's absurd and I think you can safely ignore it.

Hicks
18-10-2007, 01:03
I play guards and I never use more than 15 including plasma pistols. I find that more plasma than that is overkill. They aren't the only weapons able to effectively take out MEQs after all, I find big templates even more effective. I would guess that if you are very mobile in your playing style they would be worth it, but like others have said, this doesn't look at all like a take all comers list.

I also hate the fact that they fry themselves way too easily, but that's just me.

swamp_slug
18-10-2007, 02:16
Total: 1,478pts - 22 left over. 46 plasma weapons. I'm sure you could fit more in somehow, just not certain how you could do it really.

HQ - As your post: 140pts, 6 Plasma
Elite - 3 Vets squads: 85pts 4 Plasma (each)
Troops - 2 Platoons of:
- Command Squad: 140pts, 6 Plasma
- 4 Full squads: 86pts each, 2 Plasma
- 1 Remnant squad (7 men, vet sarge, PP, PG) 68 pts, 2 Plasma

Total: 1499pts, 50 Plasma weapons.

BenK
18-10-2007, 02:19
The way the rules and the condition of the 40k community stand, plasma guns are so much the obvious choice for guard special weapon: the only ap3 kill option with a range beyond 12".

<horse> Make Nadelaunchers AP3! </horse>

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 02:35
Gen. Steiner - Sorry, but, screw the fluff. If plasma is so damned rare, why'd they allow every Guardsman and his uncle to carry a plasma gun in the codex? Ordinarily I care about fluff, but what's in the fluff and what's actually allowed with this codex are so contradictory that it's absurd and I think you can safely ignore it.

Why? I don't know. I don't however, ever ignore the background. Plasma is a rare thing, ditto power weapons and the like, so they're rare in most of my armies. Simple as.

Voleron
18-10-2007, 02:38
Heh. My last Guard army had /one/ Plasma gun in it. My current one has none. Never needed it, really.

Of course, the fact that Orks make up the most frequent opponent for me may have something to do with that...

RavenMorpheus
18-10-2007, 02:38
for a 2000pt IG list. I have a list that has 33 plasma guns. (I can post the list if you would like.) I just couldn't think of a better way to handle marines.

<><

Better watch those 1's then :D Seems ok to me given the number of troops you need to field a 2000pt IG army.

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 02:40
Why? I don't know. I don't however, ever ignore the background. Plasma is a rare thing, ditto power weapons and the like, so they're rare in most of my armies. Simple as.

Fair enough. I do, however, dole out the 90-odd points for a totally worthless Inquisitor Lord in my army, and that is how I justify all the plasma in my army. I figure an Inquisitor Lord can requisition as much plasma weaponry as he damn well pleases.

Yes, I suppose even despite my cavalier attitude, I am giving a nod to the fluff in my way.

TheOverlord
18-10-2007, 02:47
My friend used his first plasma squad (well... 2 of them) on my marines one game, out of the 6 plasma guns fired in rapid fire 5 overheated, only 1 saved.

33 of them... that just goes so overly over the top you can see the curvature of the earth! What kinda guard regiment gets that many lost tech in one place?? :P

RavenMorpheus
18-10-2007, 02:49
My friend used his first plasma squad (well... 2 of them) on my marines one game, out of the 6 plasma guns fired in rapid fire 5 overheated, only 1 saved.

33 of them... that just goes so overly over the top you can see the curvature of the earth! What kinda guard regiment gets that many lost tech in one place?? :P

Penal Suicide battallion? :D

JimmyP0567
18-10-2007, 03:46
Penal Suicide battallion? :D

Last Chancers! :D

(As long as you max out all of your last chancers to have a PIG.)

TheOverlord
18-10-2007, 03:50
Penal Suicide battallion? :D


:D So true, so very true, though I'd never trust a scum with plasma weaponry :D

Adept
18-10-2007, 04:28
Why? I don't know. I don't however, ever ignore the background. Plasma is a rare thing, ditto power weapons and the like, so they're rare in most of my armies. Simple as.

Yeah, but the fluff never gets that specific.

By which I mean, there will always be exemptions, exceptions, and situations that buck the trend. The exception that proves the rule, if you will.

I can certainly imagine a few Guard platoons being equipped with bucket-loads of plasma for various reasons.

The only time I ever call anyone out for ignoring the background of the game is when they construct a list that I can't imagine ever happening, anywhere, at any time in the 40K timeline. It hasn't happened yet.

OctopussyVonThunderballs
18-10-2007, 04:52
Hi, guys

It's my very first post here. Hope to make some friends.

I have also have an absurd amount of Plasma guns for my Cadian 8th. This is mainly because I almost always fight SM and CSM. Even in tournaments! I went from having 2 to having maybe 25 in a few months!

I guess it boils down to the fact that you have to evolve to beat a tough opponent.

I don't feel bad for him with his 3+ armour saves. He feels good about my 5+ flak armour though...

AgeOfEgos
18-10-2007, 05:02
Apparently I don't know what I'm talking about because I think it's quite a bit. That's awful nice of someone to say.

It has it's uses. Personally, I think plasma is good for specialty, not for a backbone of an army. For whoever said it would do fine against a horde army, that's a bit ridiculous, but alright.

The other problem is you'll have to be shooting it between 12-24" range not considering plasma cannons. That's a bit close for a few really good shots for me. Maybe toss in some flamers for when someone gets closer to you. Even against a 3+ army a regular flamer will be worth it's point cost.

Well compare the choices.

In a command squad you can take flamers/nades/meltas/plasma. Point costs are pretty much identical. Plasma can kill pretty much everything, glance vehicles and rapid fire suicide for the good of the game. Flamers generally look impressive yet are most effective in anecdotal stories on gaming forums where the flamer not only took out 5 terminators, it also cured cancer and cooked everyone a meal by the end of the game. Nades are weak like Ukraine...blast template rules are full of fail. Meltas are only one shot and 12 inch range.

In a 10 man group the same applies.

As a Guard/Marine player....anytime I play my Marines and see plasma in place of flamers/nades across from me I die a little inside.

So go Plasma, make up your own fluff.

Kveld-Ulf
18-10-2007, 05:13
Yes, I suppose even despite my cavalier attitude, I am giving a nod to the fluff in my way.

Ahh, so cavalier is what you call it. Silly me, I'd been considering you brash.

I realize plasma is the most obvious choice, yes. That doesn't mean it needs to be every last piece in your army though. Still not seeing how it could be all that good against the ideal horde army, the Nidzilla's.

It has it's uses, so do other weapons. Just lame from a playing perspective to see everyone take the big gun, rather than strategically use a variety.

If only plasma actually backfired when a one was rolled and melted your model.

AgeOfEgos
18-10-2007, 05:24
Just lame from a playing perspective to see everyone take the big gun, rather than strategically use a variety.

If only plasma actually backfired when a one was rolled and melted your model.

Hey I'm with you. We all make poor choices in our armies because we like the model better then the obvious choice, or admire the fluff, etc.

I assumed he was asking, in a competitive surrounding, what was the better choice.

Regardless, it's your army/money dude. Buy what you will be happy with down the road.

Kveld-Ulf
18-10-2007, 05:27
Often plasma will be the best choice like I said, but people just don't seem to use tactics.

Since when did IG become orks? "Git da shootiest gunz youz can!"

I know the Guards do need heavy hitting weapons, and they're limited, but I know you can find other options. My friend plays a really good IG with very few plasma.

The UnNamed One
18-10-2007, 05:31
Take as much plasma as you want, you could make up some kind of fluff that maybe there was a large plasma deposit on the home planet of your army?

Adept
18-10-2007, 05:33
I realize plasma is the most obvious choice, yes. That doesn't mean it needs to be every last piece in your army though. Still not seeing how it could be all that good against the ideal horde army, the Nidzilla's.

Well, compare the options.

Flamers, grenade launchers or meltaguns are even worse against Nidzilla armies. A flamer might come in handy against a horde of gaunts, but chances are those gaunts are going to assault you, without ever spending a turn in flamer range. A plasma gun will at least get a shot or two off, and is incredibly effective against the big bugs as well.

It's not so much a question of points cost, as one of availability. If you can only take one special weapon, the plasma gun is obviously the most efficient option.

Bunnahabhain
18-10-2007, 08:43
I tend to run about half my special weapons as plasma, although this is almost all in veterans, storm troopers, and command squads, where it seem more reasonable to have them. More might be more effective, but would just feel wrong.

Vaktathi
18-10-2007, 09:00
Since when did IG become orks? "Git da shootiest gunz youz can!"



I always thought that was the essence of the Imperial Guard...

inquisitor solarris
18-10-2007, 09:25
To my view theirs always enough plasmas to be usedand if it's nids you simply use hell hounds or(maybe a warhound(if it's apoc)

Morathi's Darkest Sin
18-10-2007, 09:43
My own Guard (before I sold them a while back for the time being) had very few Plasma, mainly because a) I had virtually none figure wise and b) I was overly concerned on how many would die trying to fire the danged things. I found Missile Launchers and tanks did the job against the few Marine games I played, although to be fair my main opponents where Orks and Nids so I tended to have a lot of flamers scattered around for when things got close and scary.

I am using a lot of Plasma with my Chaos Marines though, but then I'm much happier to take the save when I do roll 1 or 2. If I remember correctly I had to make about 7 armour rolls in my last game for only the loss of one Chaos Marine. But the Plasma Guns themselves accounted for around 15-16 Loyalist Marines so i see that as a fair trade off.

Brother Loki
18-10-2007, 10:11
My own Cadian army only has a couple of plasma guns, and they're in the Kasrkin squads. Most of my special weapons are grenade launchers. I'm with Steiner and the others, in that I generally go for fluff over metagame. I want exposives and projectile weapons in my guard. I still feel dirty about having built a lascannon antitank squad because my missile lainchers didn't seem to be getting through enemy armour.

My Black Templars have a couple of plasma guns and a plasma cannon, and one of the characters has a plasma pistol, but I see it as more acceptable for Astartes to have rarer tech.

However, if I was building an Adeptus Mechanicus force I'd make more use of plasma, as that makes sense.

asmodan
18-10-2007, 10:14
I only have 4 plasma cannons , and they suffice for me. I never had any problems killing space marines myself. Just run that demolisher into range and blast it with a S 10 AP 2 ordinance template. I allways use a pretty mobile army so the !!assault!! grenade launcher is my weapon of choice. Even in my new 3000 pt IG army there will only be 1 or 2 plasmaguns.


Asmodan

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 10:56
Yes, I suppose even despite my cavalier attitude, I am giving a nod to the fluff in my way.

Ha! :D


Yeah, but the fluff never gets that specific.

By which I mean, there will always be exemptions, exceptions, and situations that buck the trend. The exception that proves the rule, if you will.

Well, yes, of course, which is why I said "most" of my armies don't have many plasma guns or power weapons. ;)

UncleCrazy
18-10-2007, 11:19
I run 2 vet squads with Plasma, And I find that enough to deal with SM and Big bugs. But then again if you fire 100 lasguns in to a squad something is going to die.

Vault-Dweller
18-10-2007, 11:29
I feel its abit strange that fluff always, according to forumdiscussion apply harder on guard armies. Plasmaguns are probably more common than terminatorarmor yet I see lot more teminators than guards with plasma.

In the fluff guards are usually not in the right place on the right time. But Im sure if that there are elite company's that would be doing the fighting if they new that they were facing a deamonprince and his closest men. Why cant someone play those when none complains if you play such extremely rare stuff as grey nights when you are fighting tau.

Kahadras
18-10-2007, 11:34
Yeah, but the Fluff never gets that specific.

By which I mean, there will always be exemptions, exceptions, and situations that buck the trend. The exception that proves the rule, if you will.


The problem at the moment is though that the exception is the trend i.e a lot of people take plasma and nothing else. Personaly I'd like to see plasma guns dropped from IG infantry squads and relegated to command squads and storm troopers. Then up the grenade launchers AP to 3.

I'd also like to see the removal of the DSing suicide command squads but to tell the truth I've seen this backfire on more than one occasion (4 plasma guns rapid fire, 5 over heats, 1 hit, no wounds, 4 failed 5+ saves, majority of the command squad removed for no damage what so ever)

Kahadras

Brother Loki
18-10-2007, 11:34
Well, personally I wouldn't take Grey Knights either, except if I knew I was facing daemons, in a themed game (perhaps using the adversaries rule if its not against a chaos player), but that's not to say other people shouldn't.

I apply the fluff equally whichever army I'm playing.

Edit: I agree Kahadras, I'd happily pay more points for AP3 krak grenades. Plasmas in just command squads and stormtroopers, or possibly special weapon squads, would make more sense.

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 12:42
Ahh, so cavalier is what you call it. Silly me, I'd been considering you brash.

I realize plasma is the most obvious choice, yes. That doesn't mean it needs to be every last piece in your army though. Still not seeing how it could be all that good against the ideal horde army, the Nidzilla's.

It has it's uses, so do other weapons. Just lame from a playing perspective to see everyone take the big gun, rather than strategically use a variety.

If only plasma actually backfired when a one was rolled and melted your model.

You're just not making any sense now.

Tons of plasma not effective against Nidzilla?! Uh... what? Now I really can't take you seriously at all... how is having tons of rapid firing S7 AP2 weaponry not effective against Nidzilla?

Mm-hmm yeah, I use lots of plasma because I am a total dolt who doesn't know how to use tactics. Right. That's gotta be it. *Yawn* :rolleyes:

You don't even own a Guard army.

jfrazell
18-10-2007, 12:58
for a 2000pt IG list. I have a list that has 33 plasma guns. (I can post the list if you would like.) I just couldn't think of a better way to handle marines.

<><
WIMP! There is a mythical list out there pushing 40. :eek:

My preference is for meltas with my mech or drop troops, but if its legal and you like it do it. It will help equalize against the 12 assault cannon, 6 carnie, 3 falcon lists out there. Fight cheese with cheese and be proud! They are also quite good, when combined with heavy weapons, in taking out Tau and eldar skimmers. I would note propornents of flamers and grenade launchers, that those weapons are useless in that regard. Meltas are nice, but too short range for line troops. Now if I could get a stubber as a special weapon, we'd have a nice option.

Remember massed plasma really only scares one list MEQ. Yet everything they have can kill you.

Polonius
18-10-2007, 13:40
first off: I have all the respect in the world for people who build armies built more around theme and a story than around battlefield effectiveness. I think that theme is an element of the hobby that sometimes gets overlooked.

That said, many of the fluff heads are awfully.... maybe smug isn't the right word, but it's the closest I have. I certainly don't want anybody to stop contributing, but recognizing that their zen like status towards the game isn't shared by everybody would help the forum a little, I think.

Secondly, every time somebody says "just use tactics" what they really mean is, "everybody should play like me." Note how nobody here has explained how an IG player can gain the effectiveness of plasma through tactics and the other specials. The reason? It can't be done.

Now, sure, a clever player can gain much of the same battlefield effectiveness without any plasma, just like Marines can win without assault cannons or eldar can win without falcons. Just remember that many people, especially newer players, want to win, if not all games then at least a few, and plasma helps a lot.

jfrazell
18-10-2007, 13:55
Why? I don't know. I don't however, ever ignore the background. Plasma is a rare thing, ditto power weapons and the like, so they're rare in most of my armies. Simple as.

While normally I agree with you Steiner I must respectfully disagree on this one.

Fluff is as malleable as the lead in the minis (oh wait they’re pewter now arggh!). One could convert the plasmas to XJ7 PPG’s, mini missile launchers, Shokk Attack Guns, really sharp pointy stick throwers, whatever. They could be skattarii, to whom plasma is man’s second best friend behind his grot. They could be a xenos force using guard rules, to whom the whole concept does not apply. They could be stuck in V2, wondering where our skimmers and assault cannon sentinels went ;)

Its also not fluffy that your bog trooper is expensive relative to his effectiveness, that lasrifles are no better than spinefists, and that sergeant yorkie can’t call in a massed manticore strike that wipes out his opponent miles away. Its not fluffy that my joyous Leman Russ can fire a charge the size of a car at a carnie and not kill it. Its not fluffy that Warmaster Bob, the Emperor’s voice over all the forces of planet 7-11 is effectively engaged in a squad level skirmish. And that’s guard fluff, not to mention the gurgly differences between marine fluff and marine lists (or any other list for that matter).

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 16:48
While normally I agree with you Steiner I must respectfully disagree on this one.

Fair enough. I'll counter your points with alacrity and alarum! Or something. :p


Fluff is as malleable as the lead in the minis (oh wait they’re pewter now arggh!). One could convert the plasmas to XJ7 PPG’s, mini missile launchers, Shokk Attack Guns, really sharp pointy stick throwers, whatever. They could be skattarii, to whom plasma is man’s second best friend behind his grot. They could be a xenos force using guard rules, to whom the whole concept does not apply. They could be stuck in V2, wondering where our skimmers and assault cannon sentinels went

Yes, they could, in which case I would applaud the player for his dedication to the background and offer up my army in sacrifice to his on the field of battle. I 100% approve of people coming up with 'counts as' lists especially if they're a xenos force! However, my point is that for generic Guard units, it is an established point of the background that plasma and power weapons are quite rare and not usually seen.


Its also not fluffy that your bog trooper is expensive relative to his effectiveness, that lasrifles are no better than spinefists, and that sergeant yorkie can’t call in a massed manticore strike that wipes out his opponent miles away. Its not fluffy that my joyous Leman Russ can fire a charge the size of a car at a carnie and not kill it. Its not fluffy that Warmaster Bob, the Emperor’s voice over all the forces of planet 7-11 is effectively engaged in a squad level skirmish. And that’s guard fluff, not to mention the gurgly differences between marine fluff and marine lists (or any other list for that matter).

Hey, if you hit that Carnifex with a HE shell and it doesn't die, maybe the shell was a dud. Maybe you haven't blessed its detonator properly. Maybe the Carnifex dodged at the last second. Maybe... etc. War is weird and people survive without a scratch what others get disintegrated by. ;)

Regarding Warmaster Bob, I frown on special characters outside of campaign games for just that reason! On the other hand, the battle represents the particular section of a much larger battle - focussing in on, say, Warmaster Bob and his lifeguard as they lead from the front to scourge 7-11 of the Orkoid menace...?

Oh, and I too mourn the loss of the ability to use voxes to call in bombardments. :cries:

Kveld-Ulf
18-10-2007, 18:20
You're just not making any sense now.

Tons of plasma not effective against Nidzilla?! Uh... what? Now I really can't take you seriously at all... how is having tons of rapid firing S7 AP2 weaponry not effective against Nidzilla?

Mm-hmm yeah, I use lots of plasma because I am a total dolt who doesn't know how to use tactics. Right. That's gotta be it. *Yawn* :rolleyes:

You don't even own a Guard army.

It can be. I've seen more Guard armies melt themselves with plasma than make any use of it. I've been to tournaments, and Guard armies without this much plasma do just as well. I haven't been taking you serious since every post of yours I've seen, on this topic or not, has been directed towards insulting someone.

That's what I see most, someone taking the strongest weapon without considering possibilities. Let me make it more clear: PLASMA IS GOOD. But that doesn't mean you have to rely on it. Back tot hat "Gets Hot" issue, I've seen the army lose just because of it.

Have I said I do own a Guard Army? Maybe read the part about me seeing how they're used, and having a close friend with them who does well. Or keep making choice selections to try and bash someone on an online forum, your choice.

Don't understand why you seem to have such a direct problem with me in general. I looked over your army list from your recent 1k battle. It looks like a pretty solid list to me, not just all plasma or all of any one weapon at all.

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 19:07
It can be. I've seen more Guard armies melt themselves with plasma than make any use of it. I've been to tournaments, and Guard armies without this much plasma do just as well. I haven't been taking you serious since every post of yours I've seen, on this topic or not, has been directed towards insulting someone.

That's what I see most, someone taking the strongest weapon without considering possibilities. Let me make it more clear: PLASMA IS GOOD. But that doesn't mean you have to rely on it. Back tot hat "Gets Hot" issue, I've seen the army lose just because of it.

Have I said I do own a Guard Army? Maybe read the part about me seeing how they're used, and having a close friend with them who does well. Or keep making choice selections to try and bash someone on an online forum, your choice.

Don't understand why you seem to have such a direct problem with me in general. I looked over your army list from your recent 1k battle. It looks like a pretty solid list to me, not just all plasma or all of any one weapon at all.

Oh, never take me too seriously, man. I'm abrasive and combative, and it may not surprise you to learn I got in a lot of fist fights as a youth. But I am actually a nice guy, and I am generally not actually upset when I post, but the internet doesn't really convey my tone of voice, etc.

Well, then, let me tone it down a bit. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that plasma does more harm than good. Yes, I lose a ton of my own troops to overheating. I also lose a lot of my own troops to bad deep strike rolls. But when I do pull out my tournament cheese list of doom with 24 plasma guns in 1750 (see? not that many), despite all the suicide, it is a very damaging list. I've wiped marine armies out to the man by turn 4 with it, and have done quite well against Nidzilla armies and even Orks. There's always something for a plasma gun to shoot at, and hordes are what the pie plate guns are there for.

So, basically, my own experience runs entirely contrary to what you are saying. And a lot of other anecdotal evidence I've seen runs contrary to it. And, furthermore, my own experience and other anecdotal evidence suggest that plasma light Guard lists do not perform as well has plasma heavy lists. Hence my emphasis on the fact that you don't actually own a Guard army.

Maybe you were under the impression that I pull out the plasma list of doom for every game? No way. In friendly games, like the one in my battle report ( http://warseer.com/forums/40k-battle-reports/108346-1-000pt-cities-of-death-nurgle-slaanesh-v-imperial-guard-dramatic-pics-inside.html ) , I try to take a balanced and fun force. It's only when someone ticks me off with a cheesy list of his own or when I'm going to a tourney that I pull out the cheese stick.

MadJackMcJack
18-10-2007, 19:22
I think plasma should be rare in Guard armies, not because of the difficulty of making the guns, but because if you saw your mate get melted by his own gun, would you want to use one? I'd ditch the bloody thing for a lasgun first time the commisar turned his back!

Mojaco
18-10-2007, 19:33
Until they get a new codex the Guard pretty much only have their tanks and their plasma to rely on.

I love mixing it up myself and will go to the Dutch GT with a far too friendly list, but in my test games my mortars and grenade launchers do nothing. Sentinels with autocannons? Nothing. 10 pt sniper rifles? Nothing. My psyker? Nothing. 20 pt Powerfists here and there? Barely anything.

But plasma. O yeah! Demolishers? Woohoo. Lascannons? Well, no actually, but I roll crap.

See a trend? IG sucks if you take away its plasma. Í started my army lists with 3 plasma weapons and 1 melta, now I'm going to the tourney with 5 plasma and 5 meltas. And still it's a poor list :)

TEMPLARDAWG
18-10-2007, 19:50
Here is my whole army list. Yes it has a lot of plasma, but the ML using frags and battlecannons will help with hordes. What other weapon in the IG list has any killing power. Lasguns and grenadelaunchers are too weak to do much good. As for fluff I haven't completely decided on it yet, but with the Inq lord in the army he could aquire as much plasma as he wants. Fluff is fluff whether it comes from GW or from your own mind.

IG LIST

Drop Troops
Veterans
Sharpshooters

HQ
Command Platoon

HQ squad
JO plasma pistol, CC
4 plasma guns

Anti Tank
3 lascannons Sharpshooter
3 lascannons Sharpshooters


Inq. Lord
HB servitor
HB servitor
PC servitor
Sage x 2

ELITES

7 harden veterans
Sgt. Plasma pistol, CC
3 Plasma guns
Carpace armor

7 harden veterans
Sgt plasma pistol, CC
3 plasma guns
Carpace armor

Callidus Assassin


TROOPS

Platoon 1

Command Squad
JO plasma pistol, CC
4 plasma guns

Squad 1
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Squad 2
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Squad 3
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun


Platoon 2

Command Squad
JO plasma pistol, CC
4 plasma guns

Squad 1
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Squad 2
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Squad 3
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Platoon 3

Command Squad
JO plasma pistol, CC
4 plasma guns

Squad 1
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Squad 2
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Squad 3
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun

Squad 4
Vet Sgt plasma pistol, CC
Missile launcher
Plasma gun


FAST ATTACK

Hellhound

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ
Lascannon, HB

Leman Russ
Lascannon, HB


<><

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 19:52
In friendly games, like the one in my battle report ( http://warseer.com/forums/40k-battle-reports/108346-1-000pt-cities-of-death-nurgle-slaanesh-v-imperial-guard-dramatic-pics-inside.html ) , I try to take a balanced and fun force.

:p I count 11 plasma weapons in that list. ;) Perhaps not as many as you could have, and you do have loads of flamers (hurrah) but still... rather undermines your point, perhaps? :angel:

sulla
18-10-2007, 19:59
:p I count 11 plasma weapons in that list. ;) Perhaps not as many as you could have, and you do have loads of flamers (hurrah) but still... rather undermines your point, perhaps? :angel:

Well, it all depends on your definition of rare doesn't it. It's such a vague word it could quite easily mean one in ten or one in a thousand...

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 20:05
Quite true, and certainly that regiment could have been lucky and been given a lot of plasma guns of varying types.

Just sayin' is all. ;)

Slaaneshi Slave
18-10-2007, 20:07
In my Imperial Guard infantry force (2,000 points) I use 8 Krieg Grenadiers with Plasma Guns, 8 Cadian Guardsmen with Lasguns, 6 Krieg Grenadiers with Melta Guns, and 3 Cadians with Meltas. I rely on these things heavily (especially since this force has no vehicles).

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 20:09
:p I count 11 plasma weapons in that list. ;) Perhaps not as many as you could have, and you do have loads of flamers (hurrah) but still... rather undermines your point, perhaps? :angel:

Dude, come on! :D I was going up against plague marines for God's sake! No way was I gonna leave all the plasma at home. If I had really wanted to cheese it out I would have dropped some stuff to make room for five plasma weapons in each HQ squad and given them all Light Infantry or Drop Troopers.

I don't think it undermines my point, really. Wouldn't you say that it is a pretty fair and balanced list? I certainly don't think it's abusive. Unfluffy? Hell, I dunno. As someone else pointed out, who is to say what "rare" really means?

Anywaaaaaay! It was a fun game, and certainly dramatic, no?

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 20:15
Ha, yeh, fair enough, I was just extracting the urine really. ;)

Good report and cracking Guardsmen, too!

sulla
18-10-2007, 21:26
Quite true, and certainly that regiment could have been lucky and been given a lot of plasma guns of varying types.

Just sayin' is all. ;)

Fair enough. Personally they will be a lot more rare in my IST based inqisition army after the last game where they had fried themselves for a kill ratio of 6 dead stormtroopers and one dead plasmacannon servitor for one dead templar...

Sovereign
18-10-2007, 21:38
If I had really wanted to cheese it out I would have dropped some stuff to make room for five plasma weapons in each HQ squad and given them all Light Infantry or Drop Troopers.
With the current rules, your HQs should be Drop Troops with Plasma Pistol, 3 Plasma Guns and Medic with attached Psyker!

Medic is awesome in massed Plasma, especially if you're going to Rapid-Fire.

The Psyker is a (relatively) cheap wound and gets the unit size up to the magical 6 models for Scoring purposes.

jfrazell
18-10-2007, 21:48
Yes, thats what drove me away from them, but thats personal dice rolling. I tend to use meltas wherever possible for non-ST/MEQ types.

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 21:49
With the current rules, your HQs should be Drop Troops with Plasma Pistol, 3 Plasma Guns and Medic with attached Psyker!

Medic is awesome in massed Plasma, especially if you're going to Rapid-Fire.

The Psyker is a (relatively) cheap wound and gets the unit size up to the magical 6 models for Scoring purposes.

Huh. Interesting. I'll give it a whirl in my next game. And I suppose the Psyker could actually roll one of the decent powers. Thanks!

Kahadras
18-10-2007, 22:09
Until they get a new codex the Guard pretty much only have their tanks and their plasma to rely on.

Please don't say that kind of stuff. Guard don't need to rely on plasma any more than Eldar need to rely on Anti Grav tanks. Just saying 'I need plasma to win' just seems an easy cop out to me. I've played against plenty of Guard lists in the past and none of them have relyed on plasma guns in order to beat my Space Wolves.

Even in a tournament setting you don't have to exclusivly rely on plasma.

Kahadras

srgt. gak
18-10-2007, 22:22
why would u ever waste valuable points on a weapon thats bound to fry your own man. hes much better used tolug around amelta or flamer. They work well on eveything

jma037
18-10-2007, 22:23
Top this!

That's 48 plasma shots double tap!

Junior Officer CMD SQD
-Plasma Gun X 2
-Company Banner

OH Inquisitor Lord
-Bolter, Bolt Pistol,Auspex.
-Veteran Guardsmen X 3
-Plasma gun X 3

Veterans X 5
-Plasma Gun X 3

Veterans X 5
-Plasma Gun X 3

Veterans X 5
-Plasma Gun X 3

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2
TOTAL:750pts

Drop troop.
Hardened veteran
Grenadier

jma037
18-10-2007, 22:25
Or this!
34 plasma shots doing double tap.

Junior Officer CMD SQD
-Plasma Gun X 2
-Company Banner

Veterans X 5
-Plasma Gun X 3

Veterans X 5
-Plasma Gun X 3

Veterans X 5
-Plasma Gun X 3

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2

Storm Trooper X 5
-Plasma Gun X 2

TOTAL:500pts

Drop troop.
Veterans
Grenadier

knighthawke70
18-10-2007, 22:26
Please don't say that kind of stuff. Guard don't need to rely on plasma any more than Eldar need to rely on Anti Grav tanks. Just saying 'I need plasma to win' just seems an easy cop out to me. I've played against plenty of Guard lists in the past and none of them have relyed on plasma guns in order to beat my Space Wolves.

Even in a tournament setting you don't have to exclusivly rely on plasma.

Kahadras

i back you 100%, i have won many games with IG and i do not have one single plasma. you can have a lot of firepower in the IG. it all depends on how you play them.

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 22:37
Please don't say that kind of stuff. Guard don't need to rely on plasma any more than Eldar need to rely on Anti Grav tanks. Just saying 'I need plasma to win' just seems an easy cop out to me. I've played against plenty of Guard lists in the past and none of them have relyed on plasma guns in order to beat my Space Wolves.

Even in a tournament setting you don't have to exclusivly rely on plasma.

Kahadras

True. But it sure does help! And especially if you are going to a tourney, where the point is to win, why shoot yourself in the foot? If all you're trying to do is win, which is ostensibly the point of a tournament, why wouldn't you take the most powerful weaponry you can? Tons of plasma and 3 pie plates is probably the easiest way to win with Guard in a tourney setting, espiecially seeing as how you're more than 50% likely to face a MEQ army in any given game. No?

And plasma works great against armor, too! Can damage vehicles all the way on up to AV 13! My Mech Tau buddy really hates my Plasma Army of Doom! :D

I don't think anyone is saying tons of plasma is the only way to win with Guard. Just that it's the easiest. And I'm not sure how anyone can argue against that.

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 22:42
Oh! Tournament players! That makes sense now. Carry on, I'll leave you to your tourny-lunacy. :)

Xenocidal Maniac
18-10-2007, 22:48
Oh! Tournament players! That makes sense now. Carry on, I'll leave you to your tourny-lunacy. :)

AHHHHH! NO!! WAIT! I am not a "tournament player", but... but...

I thought that's what we were talking about here?!

Oh, no... :cries:

Kveld-Ulf
18-10-2007, 22:48
Oh, never take me too seriously, man. I'm abrasive and combative, and it may not surprise you to learn I got in a lot of fist fights as a youth. But I am actually a nice guy, and I am generally not actually upset when I post, but the internet doesn't really convey my tone of voice, etc.

Well, then, let me tone it down a bit. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that plasma does more harm than good. Yes, I lose a ton of my own troops to overheating. I also lose a lot of my own troops to bad deep strike rolls. But when I do pull out my tournament cheese list of doom with 24 plasma guns in 1750 (see? not that many), despite all the suicide, it is a very damaging list. I've wiped marine armies out to the man by turn 4 with it, and have done quite well against Nidzilla armies and even Orks. There's always something for a plasma gun to shoot at, and hordes are what the pie plate guns are there for.

So, basically, my own experience runs entirely contrary to what you are saying. And a lot of other anecdotal evidence I've seen runs contrary to it. And, furthermore, my own experience and other anecdotal evidence suggest that plasma light Guard lists do not perform as well has plasma heavy lists. Hence my emphasis on the fact that you don't actually own a Guard army.

Maybe you were under the impression that I pull out the plasma list of doom for every game? No way. In friendly games, like the one in my battle report ( http://warseer.com/forums/40k-battle-reports/108346-1-000pt-cities-of-death-nurgle-slaanesh-v-imperial-guard-dramatic-pics-inside.html ) , I try to take a balanced and fun force. It's only when someone ticks me off with a cheesy list of his own or when I'm going to a tourney that I pull out the cheese stick.

I'm not perfect so no worries.

It does work yeah, but it's just I'm tired of seeing those cheese lists myself. IG is an amazing story army, and yet I see the same list over and over. The few I see of people doing differently have done better as well.

Yes, I'd noticed your battle report, and commended it for being a well-rounded army. Strange to see such a competitive argument from someone who plays a custom army well from what I saw in that Battle Report.

Gen.Steiner
18-10-2007, 22:56
AHHHHH! NO!! WAIT! I am not a "tournament player", but... but...

I thought that's what we were talking about here?!

Oh, no... :cries:

Don't worry, I know you're not, I just meant the OP et al. Sorry for the confusion and for making you break out the crying smily. :p

Kahadras
18-10-2007, 23:03
True. But it sure does help! And especially if you are going to a tourney, where the point is to win, why shoot yourself in the foot? If all you're trying to do is win, which is ostensibly the point of a tournament, why wouldn't you take the most powerful weaponry you can? Tons of plasma and 3 pie plates is probably the easiest way to win with Guard in a tourney setting, espiecially seeing as how you're more than 50% likely to face a MEQ army in any given game. No?

Tourney's are slightly different to the casual gaming scene. Even in tournament play the people that I knew who played Guard still advocated Melta over Plasma due to the overheat probelm.


I don't think anyone is saying tons of plasma is the only way to win with Guard. Just that it's the easiest. And I'm not sure how anyone can argue against that.

I think that's part of the problem. Many people don't like playing against 'no brainer' choices. It just says 'I know that plasma is the best special weapon for Guard therefore I'm just going to spam that'. Not that there may be anything wrong with that as per se but it shows a lack of willingness to look beyond the 'norm'.

Kahadras

fwacho
19-10-2007, 00:17
I hope this guys has some medics. course he'll get clobbered at range. a few heavy botlers on distant tanks will tear him up. Tau and eldar will eat him for breakfast. He really needs some lascannons and heavy bolters to force the enemy to attack.

on a side note. My guard have avery healthy mix of weapons ( I have at least one of everything) with little bias toward gernade launchers.

Adept
19-10-2007, 00:39
If all you're trying to do is win, which is ostensibly the point of a tournament, why wouldn't you take the most powerful weaponry you can?

Because most tournaments have some kind of composition score. If you take 40 plasma guns, you can reliably expect to get crucified in the comp scores, which effectively takes you out of the running to win the event. Comp score criteria usually run a little something like this:

GREAT FORCE:
It was an army you would want to own. You were happy to play against it. your opponent was considerate of your enjoyment when choosing this army.

It was well themed and really fitted into the background of the 41st Millenium.

It may have included fielding characterful conversions, or models simply because they look good and not simply for their fighting battlefield ability.

GOOD SOLID ARMY
This Army was a good mix of theme and threat. It was competitive but not crushing.

It had good, solid and balanced selections (not tooled in one direction), that gives their opponent a challenge, but also a fighting chance.

It was themed.

OVERLY POWERFUL
OR POORLY DESIGNED
This list really says win at all cost! There was little enjoyment in playing against it.

The list was only designed to maximise advantages.

It was a one Trick Army – the list totally dominates one phase of the game

Ideally, you want to smash your opponent, without being a dick about it, using a great force.

greenmtvince
19-10-2007, 01:16
For the Elysians, where every guard squad comes leaping out of a Valkyrie, undoubtedly one of the more complicated pieces of technology at the Imperium's disposal, I have no qualms about:

a)giving the majority of units a plasma gun and all others meltaguns. If they're good enough for grav-chutes, respirators, and Valks, they most certainly would have the best of what the imperium had to offer in squad support weapons.
b)giving the infantry a weapon that's as likely to kill them as the enemy. If the deep strike, demo charge scatter, and ineviteble counter assault don't kill them, their own weapon may as well.

Seriously, the plasma gun is just too stupid good not to use it, and I'd still equip them like I do if they were 20+ points a pop. If someone wants me to take Grenade Launchers, lets make the grenade launcher viable with an AP3 krak grenade and a AP5 frag grenade (OR make it assault 2.) As it stands, I still wouldn't take grenade launchers over plasma if they were a free upgrade.

Sekhmet
19-10-2007, 01:18
You can never have enough plasma. Seriously.

Seconded.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7525/plasmagunskv7.png

Gen.Steiner
19-10-2007, 01:22
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7525/plasmagunskv7.png

:eek: That is total and utter genius. I love it and am stealing the idea. :D

Fideru
19-10-2007, 03:13
I have an IG army with NO plasma. Its done okay, haven't played much. I usually played team games, where I soak casualties and my team-mate usually did his work and ate the other team (Tyranids).

Kveld-Ulf
19-10-2007, 05:18
Seconded.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7525/plasmagunskv7.png

Wow. That really is amazing. I'm still trying to find the picture with the Ork Kommandos with cut-out Space Marines. But that right there, is quite an interesting piece.

MysticTitan
19-10-2007, 06:14
One of my friends who takes IG only has 2 plasma guns and a single plasma pistol. He does however, have replaced all those horde plasma lists with rocket launchers instead of plasma, one game I watched he was versing Da ORKS! Half the orks were dead in the first missle volley.

Voleron
19-10-2007, 06:29
<Awesome PlasmaMarine pic that everyone's already quoted>

Hells yes. I am /SO/ doing that. And I don't even play marines.

...I wonder if I could model up a Guardsman to do that?

*runs off to scrounge SM plasmagun*

Imperialis_Dominatus
19-10-2007, 06:30
Seconded.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7525/plasmagunskv7.png

Roflmfao. Holy ****, that is genius. And they shall know no fear my ass! Hahahaha! Thank you, Sekhmet. You're a godsend.

fwacho
19-10-2007, 08:31
sekhmet... I'm afraid you may have just started a trend. That pciture is worth a thousand words. Turn signals on a land raider has got to get a hold of that. serouisly.. laughed so hard I cried. thank you for sharing and may even your cat call you blessed.

Triggerdog
19-10-2007, 08:35
I made an army list like that once only instead of 33 plasma guns it had 33 infiltrating flamers. Plasma doesnt work for guard because its expensive and your save sucks almost as much as your aim.

Voleron
19-10-2007, 08:40
Plasma doesnt work for guard because its expensive and your save sucks almost as much as your aim.

Despite, of course, the fact that Guard Droptroop/Plasma is widely considered to be the most competitive/effective Tournament list for Guard right now...

Bunnahabhain
19-10-2007, 11:08
Plasma doesnt work for guard because its expensive and your save sucks almost as much as your aim.


You're killing expensive targets with cheap plasma gunner. A basic Guardsman and plasma gun costs the same as a marine.

Lots of the plasma gun carriers have BS 4.

Command squad medics are very well practiced at healing plasma overheat. Hmmm, chaep unit with 2/3plasma guns, and that can ignore the first failed save each turn?

There are lots of those plasma guns. Roll enough dice, and most things go down.


I sometimes run an easy to carry Guard force, where plasma guns outnumber lasguns 5:1 ( mechanised grenadiers, with 5 russes and hell hounds. 1 lasgun)

jfrazell
19-10-2007, 12:53
One of my friends who takes IG only has 2 plasma guns and a single plasma pistol. He does however, have replaced all those horde plasma lists with rocket launchers instead of plasma, one game I watched he was versing Da ORKS! Half the orks were dead in the first missle volley.

What are you saying? He's using an illegal list? Are you saying all his squads have missiles for heavy weapons? A great big meh..