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Nemesis7884
18-10-2007, 06:43
i recognised that for magic items as well as for characters the names (and not just the description / addition to the name) differs in other languages then english (e.g. german)

why is that? i don't see any reason for it, its making things just complicated...

KingGato
18-10-2007, 07:12
Not all translations are direct and complete in their subtle meanings and such? It's just something that is done in languages. Hell, why do we call Germany Germany and not Duetschland?

We live in times of mystery.

Nemesis7884
18-10-2007, 09:18
cause the germans called themself "germania" some years ago

i see that, but why the hell different name for characters - that makes NO sense

ehlijen
18-10-2007, 09:28
Maybe the name of the characters was some sort of play on words or sounds that they wanted to recreate in german? Or maybe a direct translation just doesn't sound 'cool' (this is more items than characters though)?
Which names in particular are you referring to?

Midnight_Walker
18-10-2007, 10:02
Possibly because a direct translation would be laughable to native speakers, and a slight tweak will make whatever item/character a lot cooler sounding. Or there might not even be a correct transtlation in a given language. If we translated from Japanese what they call their giant we would probably get Super Huge Killy Man or something. :)

Bloodknight
18-10-2007, 10:06
Yeah, probably. The Space Marine chapter names all sound silly when translated, for example.

@Nemesis: which character do you mean?

Festus
18-10-2007, 10:11
Hi

Yes, I always laugh if faced with this famous Vampire: Walach Harkon :D

A *Wallach* is a male horse sans balls :) in the German language, so they renamed him ;)

Grizzled
18-10-2007, 10:14
cause the germans called themself "germania" some years ago

i see that, but why the hell different name for characters - that makes NO sense

Actually, the Romans called it Germania. At that time the Germans themselves were still referring to themselves by the names of the separate tribes. And the Germans in modern times call themselves "Deutsch". Back on topic, translation can be a funny thing, having done German-English and vice versa for various purposes. Maybe the name doesn't pronounce well in the language you are translating too, or maybe it has some punning meaning that doesn't come across (like "Grimgor", that's basically Grim and Gore and in German that would be...well, I had to go to my dictionary and to be honest it doesn't really translate well at all.

I too am curious, what names are you referring to in particular?

Bloodknight
18-10-2007, 10:34
Yeah, Grimgor has no meaning. That character's name in Germany is Grimgork (grimm basically means the same as grim in English - and well, a reference to Gork).

Nemesis7884
18-10-2007, 10:43
right about the germans, must agree don't know the exact time-cuts between germans, saxes and other...

nevertheless, character-character names are usually the same... but character-magic-item names are always different, and that makes no sense for fun names... its really annoying because if people here talk about magic items i always have to figure out which they mean...

for exampel the orc magic items - the names are COMPLETLEY different - they don't even sound similar

Lorcryst
18-10-2007, 11:49
What irks me the most is that character's names should NOT be translated, according to the internationnal rules of translation ... we DO NOT translate first and last names, that would be an insult to a real person, and some of those translation are silly, at best ...

The worst I've seen were the french translations of the character names in some RPG settings (Forgotten Realms by TSR), they could not even use the same translations in the three books of a trilogy of novels !

Arnizipal
18-10-2007, 12:03
If we translated from Japanese what they call their giant we would probably get Super Huge Killy Man or something. :)Going by the name on the side of the box (and my skills at reading katakana) it says GIANTO.
But then Japanese as a language does have loads of English (sounding) words.

EDIT: I just read it again and it says JAEANTO. It's still pronounced gaint though. :p

snurl
18-10-2007, 12:43
Those foreigners have a different word for everything!:confused:

Urgat
18-10-2007, 15:02
What irks me the most is that character's names should NOT be translated, according to the internationnal rules of translation ... we DO NOT translate first and last names, that would be an insult to a real person, and some of those translation are silly, at best ...

No? English people have happily decided that Guillaume le Conquérant would be called William the Conqueror in their language. I can see the path that led from Guillaume to William, but still, that's pretty far-fetched.
Everything's always renamed, even if it sounds odd. Wrahammer is an oddball thouhg, in french they translate things (crapilly - Ironhide becomes Boit'En Fer? wtf?), and some they ignore (I don't remember which names, but I remember seeing a few recent instances, at least in 40K they don't translate many things. They'll translate the Helblaster in fanatsay, but a baneblade's a baneblade in french too).

Methrin
18-10-2007, 15:14
If you know the original language, always go for it. The movie "Lost in Translation" sums up the feeling you can get when you try to understand some things.

i.e. Choppa -> Kikoup in french (Kikoup is a grossly mispelled "Which Cuts")

Jedi152
18-10-2007, 15:15
Going by the name on the side of the box (and my skills at reading katakana) it says GIANTO.
But then Japanese as a language does have loads of English (sounding) words.
There go my dreams of "supertall-megaro-disrespectful-enemy-down-pants-man!"

I'm very curious to know what Walach is called in Germany Festus.

I was perusing CMON earlier when i chanced upon a gorgeous Red Scorpions dread with 'KALAS' stamped grimly on it. It was wicked until a commentator pointed out that kalas means party in Swedish.

It kind of ruins the grim toughness of the world best armoured party wagon.

Lorcryst
18-10-2007, 16:50
@Urgat : those translation internationnal rules are rather recent, a friend of mine is an assermented translator and had to do a re-training paid by the firm he works for ... basically, first, last and familly names should never be translated to respect the identity of the person.

Of course, poor Guillaume le Conquérant had his name butchered centuries before that law was passed ...

Well, since GW special characters are not "real persons", I think they won't take offense, but still ... for the sake of an easy time at conventions and tournaments, items names should be the same ...

"OK, you have item XYZ ... now what is that called in the language the tournament is held in ? Gaaaah my head hurts ..."

Urgat
18-10-2007, 17:46
Wel, at least translating magic items and such can help, because I don't see my friends jumping up and down withj joy as I tell them "bon, mes gobs peuvent relancer leur test de panique car j'ai la Rowdy Grott's big Red Raggedy banner" :p
Choppa is another example, it is something difficult to translate, and kikoup works rather well imho, we don't really have means to reproduce the er-a thing in french, for instance (trying to find equivalent, but nothing comes to my mind, at least).

Lord Dan
18-10-2007, 17:48
Haha, why would you ask just about the Germans? I believe all languages have different words for different things? ;)

Besides, "Grimgork" is SO much cooler than "Grimgor", and therefore he will be referred to as such by myself. Chalk one up for team Germany.

Bloodknight
18-10-2007, 17:58
Don't get too enthusiastic - they butchered Dreadnought into Cybot - but then calling a robot "battleship (Schlachtschiff)" or "fuzzy blanket (Kuscheldecke)" would have been too silly. I don't even get why the English call a blanket the same as a type of battleship.

The German word for Choppa is Spalta (bastardized form of Spalter), which means splitter or cleaver.

Arnizipal
18-10-2007, 21:16
Wel, at least translating magic items and such can help, because I don't see my friends jumping up and down withj joy as I tell them "bon, mes gobs peuvent relancer leur test de panique car j'ai la Rowdy Grott's big Red Raggedy banner" :p
Or you can play the game in proper English like the rest of us ;)

Crazy Harborc
19-10-2007, 02:28
Oh well, by my last name I should speak German....Sorry only about five to ten words is all I have left.....Make that, 3 or 4 words most days. Thankfully, GW is a English company.......Now if thay could just translate some of those "English terms" to good ol' "merican terms/slang".;)

Unwise
19-10-2007, 05:13
Playing the devils(GWs) advocate for a minute...

There are some sounds that each language tends to struggle with a bit. Some noises just sound unnatural spoken. For example I might think that "Tzun Xioa Tze Xiang" may be a good name for a character given a certain native accent, but I can just imagine someone with a strong accent from another area of the world mangling it.

Imagine if they had Welsh names for characters like llywnvywldrn (not a real name), I would want that English-ized for me. Or a chinese player attempting to vocalise a term with soft TH and lots of long Ls. Some of those sounds are not even easily written/recognisable in phonetic chinese from what I hear.

I imagine what GW does is just ask their local staff to change stuff that sounds 'stupid' in the local language.

Urgat
19-10-2007, 08:40
I'm fine with keeping the names, and welsh names are funny and full of character imho (Like Llanfairwyg.....gogogog, that name with like 30 letters).
Anyway, look at all these Empire names, I'd bet most of the non germanic speakers have no idea how half of them are actually pronounced :p

Siam-Tiger
19-10-2007, 08:49
Well, Ork Nobs are just "Ork Boss", because the genitalia inuendo wouldn't work in german. Most Names are changed due to a sound or pronounciating problem. Did you know that R2D2 isn't called that way all over the way, as example in italy, they would have problems pronouncing it. So it was changed.

But believe me, in terms of names, the german market is the least problems. Take a look at the italian or spanish GW Pages, they really translate everything. The marines espacial are Space Marines, they just left them that way in german, just Space Marines. Because Weltraummarineinfanterist just sounds a lil bit over the top.

Urgat
19-10-2007, 09:27
Bosses are bosses everywhere. Nobz is for 40k, man.
And thank god they didn't translate space marines in French, that would be so lame :p

Tutore
19-10-2007, 09:38
Italian names are laughable, I always use the english ones. Some items have completely different names with no reference with the original english word. Silly.

Ah... and the italian name for choppa is 'zpakka', which is quite similar to the english word.

Siam-Tiger
19-10-2007, 10:02
Bosses are bosses everywhere. Nobz is for 40k, man.
And thank god they didn't translate space marines in French, that would be so lame :p

So i will explain it again for the slo-mo guy.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nob

Jedi152
19-10-2007, 10:28
... Or what GW means it to mean: n. Chiefly British Slang - A person of wealth or social standing

Urgat
19-10-2007, 11:04
So i will explain it again for the slo-mo guy.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nob


1) I only said that was only used in 40k, so I fail to see the goal of this post.
2) yes, I'm sure orc Nobs mean orc dicks, because the GW staff is an all US hiphop slang speaker gang.
3) so blatantly insulting me results in you becoming part of my ignore list.

have a nice day.

squiggoth
19-10-2007, 13:41
2) yes, I'm sure orc Nobs mean orc dicks, because the GW staff is an all US hiphop slang speaker gang.

You DO realize that old british slang terms were not invented by "US hiphop slang speaker gangs", right? :p

Urgat
19-10-2007, 13:51
Yes, but it sounded funny, so I wrote it :p

edit: oh, and awesome looking O&G "army" (:p) btw

squiggoth
19-10-2007, 14:01
It's a pocket-sized Waaagh. ;)

Stingray_tm
19-10-2007, 14:26
Since a lot of names include some (IMHO) terrible puns (Greasus Goldtooth for example) only people with a very good knowledge of the english language would understand them. So GW Germarny tries to find a name with a similiar double meaning. In the case of Greasus they failed, because "Speckus Goldzahn" just doesn't have anything to do with Croesus. Speckus is just a very stupid name that hints to something very fat and greasy. You can argue, that speck (bacon) is meant to hint to someone who is rich, but it is quite far fetched.

Thats one of the many reasons, why i own english army books and play with english terms.

There is only one instance, where i just love a german "translation". The Skaven special rule "life is cheap" is "Koratteralschaden" in German. --> corateral damage. Pure genius!!!

Urgat
19-10-2007, 14:35
It's a pocket-sized Waaagh. ;)

So, according to a recent fluff discussion, that would be a wagh :p

As for Gresus, we're very lucky in french, it works perfectly (becomes Graissus :p)

Despiser
19-10-2007, 15:32
Well, I think its actually reasonable to translate perfectly translateable things like "Space Marines" or "High Elves" (at least in spanish). It wouldn't make any sense to leave them in english and have the rest of the army/rulebook in another different language.

I can understand the complaints regarding character names, like Greasus (the pun was missed by spanish translators too) or the dreadnought-cybot thing (shameful).

But really, I see no problem with everything else, "Marines Espaciales" means exactly the same in spanish as "Space Marines" in english (read. Elite Soldiers from Space). I mean, its like changing inches into centimetres, no big deal.

Bloodknight
19-10-2007, 15:44
Yeah, but Weltraummarineinfanterist is too long a word. It sounds silly, too. Also, all the stuff would get far too long. for example a Space Marine Devastator would be a Weltraummarineinfanterie-Verwüster. :puke:
As for Greasus' translation: I think the translators didn't even get that pun.
It's like Asarnil the Dragonlord and his battlecry Wahnil! ("Arsenal, one:nil"). Asarnil einsnull....thank God they didn't try to translate it. They probably didn't even understand it.

Urgat
19-10-2007, 15:49
Gotta admit I didn't get that one either. I fact, I still don't get it. I suppose I don't know the reference.

Stingray_tm
19-10-2007, 15:51
Also "Marine" due to a LOT of bad American movies is quite common in German. Well, the word pronounced German actually means: "navy", but pronounced English most people recognize the meaning "elite soldier".

"Raum-Marine" sounds stupid so: "Space Marine".

Jedi152
19-10-2007, 15:56
It's like Asarnil the Dragonlord and his battlecry Wahnil! ("Arsenal, one:nil").
Haha! I never knew that one, it's a classic!

What is the pun on Greasus' name? Just that it sounds like grease?

Bloodknight
19-10-2007, 15:58
It's a rich fat guy called Greasus - he's fat: grease. and he's rich: Croesus.

@Urgat: the Asarnil pun is a football reference: Arsenal London 1:0. The DoW army book from 5th edition is full with stuff of that kind.

Stingray_tm
19-10-2007, 16:08
Haha! I never knew that one, it's a classic!

What is the pun on Greasus' name? Just that it sounds like grease?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croesus

Urgat
19-10-2007, 16:09
It's a mix between Grease and that very rich king from don't remember which country, Cresus. I don't know about in english, but in french we got an expression, "rich like Cresus", for very rich people.

edit, beaten to it by Stingray :p

edit bis: and bloodknight. Thanks for the info, too :)

Stingray_tm
19-10-2007, 16:11
I don't know about in english, but in french we got an expression, "rich like Cresus", for very rich people.


It's exactly the same in English AND German.

Jedi152
19-10-2007, 16:11
Ah, i get it now.

We do have the same saying in England, but i've never heard it said - only the Discworld version!

:D

Tutore
20-10-2007, 13:10
Weltraummarineinfanterie-Verwüster.

I want a Devastator only to be able to say: "I deploy a Weltraummarineinfanterie-Verwüster"! :) Or better: "Hier hast du einen Weltraummarineinfanterie-Verwüster"!

Jo Bennett
20-10-2007, 14:15
Also "Marine" due to a LOT of bad American movies is quite common in German. Well, the word pronounced German actually means: "navy", but pronounced English most people recognize the meaning "elite soldier".

"Raum-Marine" sounds stupid so: "Space Marine".

Except marine doesn't really mean "elite soldier". It refers to soldiers carried aboard ship for boarding actions and the like. Hence when said soldiers are carried aboard "space" ships, they are "space" marines.

Stingray_tm
20-10-2007, 15:13
Except marine doesn't really mean "elite soldier". It refers to soldiers carried aboard ship for boarding actions and the like. Hence when said soldiers are carried aboard "space" ships, they are "space" marines.


I know that. But in Germany the meaning of "Marine" is defenitely more of an elite soldier, because of many many many many bad movies.

cornixt
20-10-2007, 16:15
It's made a bit more confusing by the fact that the US marines are no longer really associated with the navy. In all other forms "marine" is related to the sea.

I'm wondering what the Germans call Wallachia (region of Romania I think, now). Maybe it is like when teenage boys in other parts of the world look at maps of Africa and laugh at Niger.

Bloodknight
20-10-2007, 16:22
It's called Walachei.
There is a saying "xy lebt in der Walachei" or "das Dorf ist in der Walachei"
meaning "xy lives in Wallachia/the village lies in Wallachia" (ie. far away from anything like a town - in the hinterland of nowhere, so to speak)).

People don't laugh at it therefore. The word Wallach for a castrated horse stems from the fact that the idea of castrating horses was imported to Germany from Wallachia.

TheWarSmith
20-10-2007, 17:18
Whoever said that last names aren't altered from original languages is LAUGHABLE.

Example. My last name is Kuhn(pronounced koon). It's german, and the original spelling is Kühne. It's often spelled kuehne, or tons of other variations. An UE in English is the english languages way of spelling ü, but often the E gets dropped, making a differently pronounced name.

Take to ANYBODY with European immigrant relatives, and you'll find that their name probably is not the exact same as it was in their original land.

I'd like to see some specific examples of Orcish words that you seem to have a problem with.

Bloodknight
20-10-2007, 17:23
Kuhn is a quite common German last name. Actually more common than Kühne :D

druchii
21-10-2007, 09:30
Whoever said that last names aren't altered from original languages is LAUGHABLE.

Example. My last name is Kuhn(pronounced koon). It's german, and the original spelling is Kühne. It's often spelled kuehne, or tons of other variations. An UE in English is the english languages way of spelling ü, but often the E gets dropped, making a differently pronounced name.

Take to ANYBODY with European immigrant relatives, and you'll find that their name probably is not the exact same as it was in their original land.

I'd like to see some specific examples of Orcish words that you seem to have a problem with.

I agree. My origional last name was Spuljerik.
Apparently when my grandparents immigrated no one could pronounce it so it somehow turned into Stewart :wtf:

Urgat
21-10-2007, 10:00
This is very different though, it's not the people who translated your name, it's your family that decided to change it.

Lorcryst
21-10-2007, 11:37
And if your actual last name, the one that you had since birth, was butchered in a translation, would you be glad ?

My mother's mother came to Belgium from Poland, but she kept her last name, and even if it's barely pronouncable for some people here, my mother is proud of her last name, and gets really cranky when someone mistreats it.

A name is part of one's identity, and that's why those internationnal translation rules were put in place. Of course, the US of A have had a long tradition of changing the names of the immigrants, but that doesn't mean that it's right ... AFAIK, immigrants to the USA had the choice, they could have kept their names (IF the clerk noting them down was nice).

TheWarSmith
22-10-2007, 14:23
This is very different though, it's not the people who translated your name, it's your family that decided to change it.

In SOME cases, that's right. In MANY more cases, immigrants provided their last name to officials upon entering the country, and they were often shortened and respelled to be easier.

Interesting to know about my last name. I always thought it was the Americanized version.

In Druchii's case, I'm not so sure that Stewart is any attempt at translation/alteration of the original name. That might have just been a random American name chosen/suggested by/to your relative.

Rioghan Murchadha
23-10-2007, 04:00
On the subject of anglicized names, My screen name is the proper spelling of my actual name. Props to anyone not from Ireland who can figure it out :p

Urgat
23-10-2007, 17:07
In SOME cases, that's right. In MANY more cases, immigrants provided their last name to officials upon entering the country, and they were often shortened and respelled to be easier.

Well thank god, contrary to its citizen's general beliefs, what used to happen in the USA is no worldwide rule... much like most of what people could do back then. Welcome to the globalized 21th century :p

Lorcryst
23-10-2007, 17:13
Well thank god, contrary to its citizen's general beliefs, what used to happen in the USA is no worldwide rule... much like most of what people could do back then. Welcome to the globalized 21th century :p

QFT !

I like my family name, and the history associated to it, and I would be really pissed off if a theorical immigration officer wanted to change it ... you can keep your country, I'll keep my identity, thank you very much ...