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Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 20:54
Is anyone else getting sick of Apocalypse? I know I am

Surgency
19-10-2007, 20:55
it's been out for 8 days, have you really played so many apocalypse games?


probably not.

Adept
19-10-2007, 20:56
Whats to get sick of? It's just big games of 40K. Being 'sick' of apocalypse is like being sick of 1,500 pt games. Or sick of 40K.

I'm not getting you.

Grimtuff
19-10-2007, 20:59
I concur, Huh?

Don't you just love these wonderfully vague posts that make no sense? Try putting a little construction other than a sentence Son_Of_A_Horus as people can actually discuss things. :rolleyes:

JonnyX
19-10-2007, 20:59
I have played 6 apoc (4500+) games and love it!

RexTalon
19-10-2007, 20:59
I'm sick of hearing people complain about it.

Bassik
19-10-2007, 21:00
I think my Noise Marines are pretty sick...

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:00
I mean it's all "Apocalypse this, apocalypse that"...why don't people just refer to it as 40k?

Not only that, but it is being billed as like, "THE best thing ever", but I PERSONALLY don't think so. I love 40k, even if I do suck at it, but I just don't see the point of being able to combine EVERY army

WarEyes
19-10-2007, 21:02
How can you be 'sick' of it? Could we have an explanation of what it is exactly that's getting on your nerves?

If it's the promotion of said expansion, then it's no more than what the last rulebook got. It's just that among the players, there's a bigger sense of anticipation. It's got people talking about the game, it's got new players in.

Anyway... explanation please.

Grimtuff
19-10-2007, 21:02
I mean it's all "Apocalypse this, apocalypse that"...why don't people just refer to it as 40k?

I refer to the first reply in this very thread:




it's been out for 8 days....

Nuff. Said.

Stormhammers
19-10-2007, 21:03
it's the same way they refer to mordheim or necromunda as their respective names rather than WHFB or 40K. It's a different game with a majority of rules the same, much like the licenced out "D20 system" for RPG's

BrainFireBob
19-10-2007, 21:04
People are talking about Apocalypse when they talk about Apocalypse, as opposed to regular 40K- and it just came out. Deal. When your codex gets updated, I'm sure you'll be excited to participate in all these wonderful threads that come up.

And Apocalypse isn't about combining armies. You *can*, you can also field your whole collection. For those of us with 10,000+ points, that's just wicked fun.

Grimtuff
19-10-2007, 21:06
And Apocalypse isn't about combining armies. You *can*, you can also field your whole collection. For those of us with 10,000+ points, that's just wicked fun.

Apparently not.....

Wait until January, then we'll probably be hearing about how people are "sick of Orks". Ironic really, as the players have waited about 9 years for a new codex.

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:08
Ok, I haven't explained myself properly and I can see that.

Don't get me wrong, pushing 40k forwards is great, and big games are cool, but I don't agree with the removal of army structure, and the chucking together of various armies. I think it would be awesome to EXPAND the army structures, but still having the limits, that way peoples abilities to write good, well thought out army lists is still tested. Apocalypse just offers the opportunity to beard out your army as far as you could possibly imagine.


People are talking about Apocalypse when they talk about Apocalypse, as opposed to regular 40K- and it just came out. Deal. When your codex gets updated, I'm sure you'll be excited to participate in all these wonderful threads that come up.


1. Attitude gets you nowhere.

2. Apocalypse is a large scale form of which core system? 40K.

3. My codex IS out.

4. Deal.

Grimtuff
19-10-2007, 21:12
Ok, I haven't explained myself properly and I can see that.

Really, you could have just put what you typed below in the original post, but I digress....



Don't get me wrong, pushing 40k forwards is great, and big games are cool, but I don't agree with the removal of army structure, and the chucking together of various armies. I think it would be awesome to EXPAND the army structures, but still having the limits, that way peoples abilities to write good, well thought out army lists is still tested. Apocalypse just offers the opportunity to beard out your army as far as you could possibly imagine.

Then you're missing the point of Apocalypse.

Those fools that want to use the 20 GKGM army with 12 supporting Baneblades will never get games. Apocalypse is meant to be played amongst friends who've been playing one another for years. So the whole "beardy army" thing will never happen as you're amongst friends.

They know what your gaming preferences are, otherwise they would not be a regular opponent nor your friend. The system is foolproof IMO.

Chainsofsigil
19-10-2007, 21:14
it's been out for 8 days, have you really played so many apocalypse games?


probably not.

Dude, the game has been out for 8 days, but the hype surrounding it has been going for aagggggess, I think thats what Son_Of_A_Horus is getting at.

I played a few massive battles (10000+) multiplayer and everything long before Apocalpyse was mentioned and they were quite epic. Trust me your first mega-battle will be unforgettable. It's a once every 6 months thing mind.....

ffoecaf
19-10-2007, 21:16
Ok, I haven't explained myself properly and I can see that.

Don't get me wrong, pushing 40k forwards is great, and big games are cool, but I don't agree with the removal of army structure, and the chucking together of various armies. I think it would be awesome to EXPAND the army structures, but still having the limits, that way peoples abilities to write good, well thought out army lists is still tested. Apocalypse just offers the opportunity to beard out your army as far as you could possibly imagine.

But that would be against the point of it: Putting everything down on the table, and playing with it.

Maybe you're just playing with bad players? I haven't gotten to play my first game yet, but the list I've written up for it is pretty fair. The lists the others on my team have written are pretty fair. I don't see anyone taking like 10 monoliths and that's it.




Those fools that want to use the 20 GKGM army with 12 supporting Baneblades will never get games. Apocalypse is meant to be played amongst friends who've been playing one another for years. So the whole "beardy army" thing will never happen as you're amongst friends.

I dunno. That's like 10 thousand points, and in that amount I can get my warhound, a baneblade about 300 guardsmen and their respective tanks, and still have enough points to throw in a nice sized CSM detatchment to overlook the little traitors. It might be an interesting battle.

Grimtuff
19-10-2007, 21:16
Dude, the game has been out for 8 days, but the hype surrounding it has been going for aagggggess, I think thats what Son_Of_A_Horus is getting at.

Perhaps thats because it's what gamers have been wanting for aagggggess as you so eloquently put.....

aad
19-10-2007, 21:17
well...

if you don,t like it:

-don,t look at it
-don,t look at topics with it
-don,t read about it
-don,t go to the store,s
-don,t make topics about it

in short:

don,t do anything at all that even remotely comes close to apocalypse.
:angel:

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:18
Grimtuff, yes, you are right, people who build those types of army won't get a game. Sadly, people at my local seem to think that is the way forward. There are people who are looking at fielding 2 baneblades etc....why? If you can take a shedload of Termies with chainfists, I know what is gonna win in the long haul. I like playing 40k, and I have had a couple of games of Apocalypse, I just think there should still be some form of army structure....maybe I'm not gettingit...maybe I'm not as "cool" as some others....I've just got a personal opinion...and I'm being cooked for it...

jfrazell
19-10-2007, 21:19
Chill. It will fade in a short time. At that point we will be able to see whether this is a continuing game or a flash in the pan.

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:19
Dude, the game has been out for 8 days, but the hype surrounding it has been going for aagggggess, I think thats what Son_Of_A_Horus is getting at.

I played a few massive battles (10000+) multiplayer and everything long before Apocalpyse was mentioned and they were quite epic. Trust me your first mega-battle will be unforgettable. It's a once every 6 months thing mind.....

Dude, someone who gets me....

BrainFireBob
19-10-2007, 21:20
1. Attitude gets you nowhere.

2. Apocalypse is a large scale form of which core system? 40K.

3. My codex IS out.

4. Deal.

You misapprehend.

1. Well, then, you should have re-considered the tone the thread started in.

2. And Cities of Death is a variant. People are correct to refer to Apocalypse when they refer to Apocalypse

3. Listen, man, I was saying that people are excited it's out and they're playing it. When you get a codex update, you'll be excited about it and want to discuss it too, so don't get all huffy because people excited about Apocalypse want to have the same experience, leading to

4. Deal.

And as regards your issues with tossing out Force Org- Force Org doesn't work pass certain point values. The restrictions built in were moved to formations in Apocalypse, which are expanding.

And many of us dislike the fact that 40K has become about "efficient" army construction, since army-building isn't the sole point of 40K, playing is. Since points aren't a limitation, you are free to field the fun stuff- and as Grimtuff said, it tends to balance out.

I agree on infantry being somewhat useless- I'm iffy on the inclusion of Titans, to be honest. But that's all handled in setup for the game- if the other guy brings Titans, you plan accordingly.

Hlokk
19-10-2007, 21:20
Dude, the game has been out for 8 days, but the hype surrounding it has been going for aagggggess, I think thats what Son_Of_A_Horus is getting at.
I'll go with that. The game is ace, and I love it, but what I don't love is GW using every opportunity to go "Wow, look how much this game rocks".

BrainFireBob
19-10-2007, 21:23
That's fair, but y'know, Hlokk, that's got nothing to do with Apocalypse itself and everything to do with the hype surrounding it. If that's your point, how does it become communicated by saying "It's 40K, not Apocalypse."

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:24
You misapprehend.

1. Well, then, you should have re-considered the tone the thread started in.

2. And Cities of Death is a variant. People are correct to refer to Apocalypse when they refer to Apocalypse

3. Listen, man, I was saying that people are excited it's out and they're playing it. When you get a codex update, you'll be excited about it and want to discuss it too, so don't get all huffy because people excited about Apocalypse want to have the same experience, leading to

4. Deal.

And as regards your issues with tossing out Force Org- Force Org doesn't work pass certain point values. The restrictions built in were moved to formations in Apocalypse, which are expanding.

And many of us dislike the fact that 40K has become about "efficient" army construction, since army-building isn't the sole point of 40K, playing is. Since points aren't a limitation, you are free to field the fun stuff- and as Grimtuff said, it tends to balance out.

I agree on infantry being somewhat useless- I'm iffy on the inclusion of Titans, to be honest. But that's all handled in setup for the game- if the other guy brings Titans, you plan accordingly.

This is my point. Titans are wrong....sorry if my initial thread sounded sh**ty, I'm just against having something shoved in my face. I went into my local store the day BEFORE Apocalypse launched, bought a Defiler and was chastised by the Full Timer for not wanting to buy anything for Apoc the next day. Why should I be chastised for it?

BrainFireBob
19-10-2007, 21:28
I don't know. Why should you assume it's the same everywhere else?

Apparently you're at odds with your local community over it. I feel that- it sucks for you. It'll die down in a couple months. Until then, you'll still be able to get the odd game in.

Personally, the highlight for me are some of the formations, like Lost and the Damned or Sternhammer's Wulfen- excuses to start new armies without beginning at combat patrol all over again.

ffoecaf
19-10-2007, 21:29
This is my point. Titans are wrong

If Titans are wrong, I don't want to be right.


I went into my local store the day BEFORE Apocalypse launched, bought a Defiler and was chastised by the Full Timer for not wanting to buy anything for Apoc the next day. Why should I be chastised for it?

Cause he's a pushy salesman? He was probably joking, anyway.

I just say I bought one of the box sets online already and they usually shut up about it.

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:33
I don't know. Why should you assume it's the same everywhere else?

Apparently you're at odds with your local community over it. I feel that- it sucks for you. It'll die down in a couple months. Until then, you'll still be able to get the odd game in.

Personally, the highlight for me are some of the formations, like Lost and the Damned or Sternhammer's Wulfen- excuses to start new armies without beginning at combat patrol all over again.

NOw see, that is a good thought. I like expansion, I like using a solid army and I like some of the formations that are coming in (Line Breaker for example). It's just the inclusion of the large stuff. I'd be interested in playing someone who isn't out to just field the big stuff.

BDJV
19-10-2007, 21:34
If Titans are wrong, I don't want to be right


Sig'd my friend! :evilgrin:

Durath
19-10-2007, 21:35
1. Attitude gets you nowhere.

Hmm. I detect a bit of irony here.

IJW
19-10-2007, 21:36
If Titans are wrong, I don't want to be right.
Classic!

Son_Of_A_Horus - your first post in the thread was a bit... vague. Don't be surprised that people leapt on you. :rolleyes:

Vladigar
19-10-2007, 21:37
....sorry if my initial thread sounded sh**ty, I'm just against having something shoved in my face.


It wasn't. I knew what you meant and I'd bet cash that most people knew what you meant. Don't worry about the cyber-snipers. Internet anonymity seems to give certain people the extra set of stones they need to snipe at someone over post construction, content, grammar errors, or the assertion that you should've used the Search function to find information about a subject that's covered in a thread from 8 months ago. Just remember the old (relatively) saying: Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics...

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:38
Classic!

Son_Of_A_Horus - your first post in the thread was a bit... vague. Don't be surprised that people leapt on you. :rolleyes:

Meh, I'm tired..lol.....cut me some slack ;)


It wasn't. I knew what you meant and I'd bet cash that most people knew what you meant. Don't worry about the cyber-snipers. Internet anonymity seems to give certain people the extra set of stones they need to snipe at someone over post construction, content, grammar errors, or the assertion that you should've used the Search function to find information about a subject that's covered in a thread from 8 months ago. Just remember the old (relatively) saying: Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics...

Dude, you been watching Jay and Silent Bob??? It seems that I am snipee of the day :)

Stormhammers
19-10-2007, 21:40
I'll go with that. The game is ace, and I love it, but what I don't love is GW using every opportunity to go "Wow, look how much this game rocks".

well that is just how GW has worked for as long as I remember. They are a business and want to sell their new product. Annoying? no doubt, but I'd think that y'all would be used to GW doing this sort of thing

Vladigar
19-10-2007, 21:44
Dude, you been watching Jay and Silent Bob??? It seems that I am snipee of the day :)


Never seen it actually. I'm not much of a fan of Silent Bob. Although I loved Clerks, but that's probably because while in college I worked as a store clerk and could identify with that movie 100%. ;)

Inquisitor_Malice
19-10-2007, 21:44
I think getting rid of the org chart actually helps move apocalypse along. I can just keep clicking on units in Army builder and bam - have a 5,000 point force without having to worry about anything. Heck, I take more time building my GT forces at 1,750 points than what I do with Apocalypse forces. It is quite a nice relief.

Stormhammers
19-10-2007, 21:45
...or the assertion that you should've used the Search function to find information about a subject that's covered in a thread from 8 months ago. Just remember the old (relatively) saying: Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics...


hahaha, so true, I got an infraction for "spamming" for something just like that. I do love that quote, it is quite true.

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:46
I think getting rid of the org chart actually helps move apocalypse along. I can just keep clicking on units in Army builder and bam - have a 5,000 point force without having to worry about anything. Heck, I take more time building my GT forces at 1,750 points than what I do with Apocalypse forces. It is quite a nice relief.

You have an army builder?

BrainFireBob
19-10-2007, 21:48
Ah, but there is a difference between responding to something that smacks of trolling or having an axe to grind and deliberately sniping to get your jollies, as it were. Horus's initial posts were . . definitely open to being an attempt to the former. Page two clarified his intent.

Army building software. Some's free, some's legally free- what matters is how often they update and how buggy it is. But yes, there's quite a few army-builder programs out there, for most tabletop games. I recommend a search, or even asking people to post their favorite army builders and why, if you're interested in one. They are very, very convenient.

floyd pinkerton
19-10-2007, 21:48
How can you be sick of apocalypse?

Beer, pizza and dice:D

and little men....:D

Son_Of_A_Horus
19-10-2007, 21:49
Ah, but there is a difference between responding to something that smacks of trolling or having an axe to grind and deliberately sniping to get your jollies, as it were. Horus's initial posts were . . definitely open to being an attempt to the former. Page two clarified his intent.

A fair response. I'm glad I finally managed to get out what I was ACTUALLY trying to say.


How can you be sick of apocalypse?

Beer, pizza and dice:D

and little men....:D

My local store not included the beer and pizza yet...

Triggerdog
19-10-2007, 21:57
I love Apocalypse. How else could I field my 12 Land Raiders? lol. But seriously, Apocalypse is really hard to bust and make beardy because of how it requires your buddies to be okay with it. With my Land Raiders I generally only field all of them when I'm themeing my part of the game around my Chapter's First Company inwhich case it makes sense. I have 20k of marines and assorted Inquisitorial riff-raff and I like being able to field my Inquisitor cabal or other amazingly fluffy things like that.

that and I had a battle company and then some before the box set came out and I'd like to be rewarded for going to the effort. With Apocalypse I get some fancy Strategic Assets for my efforts and that pleases me greatly.

I still want a Baneblade though just because its a sweet model. Once I get it it will be painted up in my Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor's colors and be crewed by guys with Elysian respirators. Will I ever actually use it? maybe once or twice but I like just being able to say "I have an Inquisitorial Baneblade crewed by airborne Grenadiers."

Thoth62
19-10-2007, 22:22
I can completely understand where you're coming from in terms of the hype involved, and I've found most of the widespread complaints about the cheesefest resulting from a lack of a FOC, to be a load of hot air. Yes you will have those who talk about fielding some crazy armies, but think of it this way. Who's the idiot for buying 30 Grey Knight Grand Masters? And who's the one who's not going to convince anyone to play him?

For the most part, I'm seeing people who already have armies that follow the FOC just adding extra units to their armies to make them apoc sized. Which generally means that while there may be more than 3 elites, or heavy support or what have you, there is also going to be a decent amount of troops being fielded as well.

Also, a bit off topic, but I'm trying to be helpful here, not jump on you, but Son_Of_A_Horus, I've noticed a few times on this thread where you have double posted (which is against forum rules). If you have something to add to the discussion, and nobody has replied after your last post, you can use the edit button to add to your last post.

Cheers.

Raven1
19-10-2007, 22:31
You know what I'm sick of double post to boost your post count. Theres is an edit button for a reason. Think before you speak.

Aside from that a wise man once said that if you are stuck in a blizzard and it is all around you, go inside and get away from the blizzard.

If you don't like apocalypse, only pay attention to posts outside the realm of apocalypse. you could have started out by not posting about apocalypse, but you have instead fed the moster and it grows with each passing moment.:evilgrin:

HowlingBanshee23
19-10-2007, 22:37
Apocalypse is awesome. If you dont like it well......:P

Thoth62
19-10-2007, 22:38
You know what I'm sick of double post to boost your post count. Theres is an edit button for a reason. Think before you speak.

Irony? Look one post up... It was addressed in what I believe to be a polite manner. Think before you speak.

Raven1
19-10-2007, 22:59
It is very much so Ironic, I read all but basically this page. Maybe I should just make this an edit. Wouldn't that take the point to heart. anyway, your part is like way at the end, being an internet user I can't possible be expected to take into account everything everyone said or at least try to not jump the gun and yell at someone just becasue it would be easy, but that would make sense.
I gotta stop being mean, anyway back to being on topic.

We are basically drowned in a sea of apocalypse, but it's the biggest and one of the best things GW has done. It is to be expected.
I personally think it is way cool and can't wait till I can get my hands on some of this stuff(stupid school for being so stupidly expensive). I'm a little irratated by it all, but it is coming from my jealous side.

Tulun
19-10-2007, 23:06
Meh, just don't let it get you down.

And if someone cheeses out their list in Apoc, don't play them.. ever again! It's a long game, it requires a lot of planning, etc. Apoc is purely about fun, and all lists should generally be mish mash of violence.

Taking the worst lists you can think of (someone joked... I hope.. about taking 150 harlequins) will net you no opponents. Just take a peak at the apoc games in the book itself.. that's how Apoc should be.

Son_Of_A_Horus
20-10-2007, 10:55
Firstly, my apologies for the double posts, I'm relatively new to this, I shall use the edit button from now on.

150 HArlequins? Fromage Frais!!! One lad at our store has a rather large number of the bloomin things (90 I think). He is also the master of the Bearded Army...won't be playing him then lol.

If they had just set the ground for the hype and allowed everyone to be sucked in, as opposed to ramming it down their throats....

TeddyC
20-10-2007, 11:50
Ok, I haven't explained myself properly and I can see that.

Don't get me wrong, pushing 40k forwards is great, and big games are cool, but I don't agree with the removal of army structure, and the chucking together of various armies. I think it would be awesome to EXPAND the army structures, but still having the limits, that way peoples abilities to write good, well thought out army lists is still tested. Apocalypse just offers the opportunity to beard out your army as far as you could possibly imagine.

Apoc rules arent compulsary... its not like you will turn up to a tourney and face warhound titans on a regular basis and entire harlequin armies.

It does say quite clearly in the book it is designed to be played with friends precisely for the reasons you gave. Hopefully your mates wont be bearding out their armies like you say.

Me? Im well looking forward to facing my mates entirely vehicle eldar list. If he does beard it out too much then... because they are friends i can tell them they are being beardy and they will stop.

I think you will only get problems if you agree to play strangers at your local store with apoc rules.

40k is still 40k... think of this as an offshoot like Epic, Necromuda, BFG, SPace Hulk. Only difference is you use a similar ruleset

Strobie
20-10-2007, 11:51
Son_Of_A_Horus first I feal sorry for you that you have a lot of cheezy players around but at the same time I would take them with a grain of salt and say that find some not so cheezy player and play apocalypse with them. I am sure that then you will find out what apocalypse is realy all about. Also I have play a lot of Apocalypse games and have found that having a lot of big tanks on the table can not cause you to win a game for sure. A well placed Vortex granade can take out 1 or 2 baneblades really fast. And foot sloggers can win you the game just as much as super-heavies

stroller
20-10-2007, 12:59
Just a thought... in Apocalypse.. or even in a fun game of 40K - whats WRONG with a spot of cheese? Had a lot of fun setting up super hyped up character x against mega armoured character y to see who wins..... or super hero z wading through hordes... will he survive? Is he a real hero or - oh - they got him..... so long as all the players are in agreement cheese is good for you (all that milk)

Captain Micha
20-10-2007, 13:14
I find it funny, that this thread is against apocalypse but it will only serve to drive the hype on further! (people will read the book to see what the fuss is about)

Be happy Gw is finally doing something to really save their skins instead of simply pushing out more marines K? Thanks

I like the concept of apoc. for the -most- part it seems well balanced (I have my issues with the hierophant though..) and the army formations you'd be bloody daft not to take.

Remember to have an apoc game, you have to have 3.5k worth of stuff -minimum- to play.. and in order to use your titans/baneblades/superheavy/flyer/biotitans/w/e you still have to have to be able to field a force for apoc!

That being said, the biggest problem I have with it, is my gaming group doesn't have a large enough table yet!

Strobie
20-10-2007, 13:49
nothing is wrong with a bit of cheese as long as its used right like you said Stroller but just not when you have more cheese then you have fun

adreal
20-10-2007, 15:13
Son_Of_A_Horus, for apoc its over hyped yes, but GW took a big gamble on this, because recently they have been trying to get newer gamers into the hobby, and they usually stop at 1500pts so, they don't have big armies, thus needing the new models. It happens, its annoying, but just don't buy white dwarf for afew months and it'll be cool (although they have finally released a road set so props for that)

As to the people, for apoc, you're really orginisinbg atleast a week in advance, so you can ask, "hey no super heavies this time k?" if they are cool, they will say "hmm alright, baneblade is a sweet model, but you don't have one yet, or nothing similar so I can see you not having fun, maybe we take more stratigic assets this game, make it more fun yeah?" then you can say "hmm yeah alright, sounds good, so 10am on sat yeah?"

or they could be a dick and say "dude, I wanna use my super heavy, just cause you don't have one doesn't mean I should sacrifice" then you can say "well I'm happier playing 1500pts gamres anyway man, so later"

Will it suck for you for afew months yeah, but you can paint your models, or plan out zaney lists that noone would expect you to use and just carve up when they want to prep for the GT or whatever.

Hope you don't quit the hobby over jerks wanted to spam stupid armies

Wraithbored
20-10-2007, 15:23
Hello *************! How's the thuderhawk coming along? Personally I just ordered a Revenant a few days back and another friend has ordered a pylon. And where have you been holed up these past few months?

Son_Of_A_Horus
20-10-2007, 16:35
Ok...so...a semi apology!

Had a game of Apoc today instore and it was fething cool. Very funny. Very enjoyable. The problem I found was that in big multiplayer games, it crumbles like my home baking.

Was proud of my Fire Dragons destroying warlord titan though.

Stormhammers
20-10-2007, 17:31
lol, you have seen the light so to speak. Huge games are fun if done right.

Daniel36
20-10-2007, 17:38
Too lazy to read through everyone's comments, but the rules do not FORCE you to combine EVERY army there is... The Apocalypse rules are there for themed games, meaning Imperial Guard and Ultramarines can be combined without restrictions to fight against Orks and Chaos without restrictions.... People who use the rules to throw all the strongest units from every army together are sad.... However, people who want to combine two armies that are combinable for a cool story-style game aren't, and that's what Apoc is about.... Not about the best army, but the coolest battles ever.... Win or lose.

So uhh.... Semi apology accepted I guess hehehehh....

Stella Cadente
20-10-2007, 17:41
I'm sick and tired of Apocalypse answers to 40k questions, for example

person1: "Can I use my Baneblade in my space marine army?"
Person2: "In Apocalypse sure you can, apocalypse lets you use everything"
Person1: "yeah thats all well and good, but what about those that only play NORMAL 40k?"
Person2: "theres a normal 40k?????"

and I'm sick and tired of apocalypse armies

Person1: "My apocalypse army is going to be Necrons, Tyranids, and space marines"
Person2: "have you created a fluff related back story to help us understand this?"
Person1: "yes, my backstory is, APOCALYPSE IS TEH ROXORS!!!111!!!"
Person2: "ummm....yeah, right"

and I'm sick and tired of apocalypse arguments
and people blabbering on How EASY it is to make an apocalypse army
and apocalypse armies being about as fun to fight as a bus

IJW
20-10-2007, 17:45
Having a bad day, are you?

Stella Cadente
20-10-2007, 17:50
Having a bad day, are you?
been having a bad day since 1988

IJW
20-10-2007, 17:52
been having a bad day since 1988
:( You have my sympathies...

DasAtomkind
20-10-2007, 17:57
Son-of-Horus, these are just my five cents...

I think you get the Apocalypse wrong. Sure, there is and has been a lot of 'hype' around it. That's happening on purpose, because GW needs to increase their sales again after rather inferior last year. Wonderful thing about this is that GW is in essence doing a grand sellout this fall in the form of those huge-ass boxed sets. 3 Leman Russes for the price of 2, anyone ? Judging by the amount of excitement seen on various wargaming forums, I assume the marketing of the Apocalypse has been 100% successful so far.

As for the ignoring the Force Organization Chart: yes, it allows a player to build atrocities, like for example having an army composed entirely of Land Raiders or whatever. But the thing is that the supplement is generally meant for FRIENDLY and particularly themed mega-battles. The freedom to field whatever you want is IMO a double-edged sword, because it is actually quite demanding on players' self-discipline, respecting the fluff (so they really shouldn't field 20 Land Raiders only in their force) and also a sense of good sportsmanship. And that is, I think, the main difference between Apocalypse and common (quite often 'cheesy' and annoying) 40K environment of big tournaments.

Yes, at first it seemed odd to me too, that GW is pushing the 40K from skirmish games to this whole new level of huge Epic-like battles, but now that I read the book, I think that Apocalypse is one of the greatest thing ever to happen to 40K.

Bookwrak
20-10-2007, 18:00
been having a bad day since 1988
How does that song go, 'You were emo, when emo wasn't cool?:p"

And I guess the thing with Apocalypse answers is when the op doesn't specify which game they're talking about, but the tone sounds like they're talking about Apocalypse.

Agrip. Varenus Denter
20-10-2007, 18:02
Hype here and there for a couple of months... the supplement itself is 9 days old... I don't get it. It's something that doesn't have to effect a 40K gamer if they don't let it.

philbrad2
20-10-2007, 18:20
Right people. We have a question/topic lets answer it constructively. Answer the topic and don't let this descend into any more micro-flame wars. If it does I'll close the thread.

Play nice!

PhilB
:chrome:
+ WarSeer Mod Team +

Grimtuff
20-10-2007, 18:32
Hello *************! How's the thuderhawk coming along? Personally I just ordered a Revenant a few days back and another friend has ordered a pylon. And where have you been holed up these past few months?

Is it really him? Gunline himself?

This must be one of his more "lucid" accounts.....

MADJAP77
20-10-2007, 18:57
had my first 4000 pt battle and it was the best game i have ever had. even thought i rolled enough 1's to build the great wall of china, it was still awesome. now all we need to do is get more terrain and it can only get better. viva apocalypse

ChaosMaster
20-10-2007, 19:38
I've been playing 40K since the Rogue Trader version and I can honestly say Apocalypse is the most fun 40K has ever been, so no, I'm not sick of Apocalypse. Apocalypse is clearly not for everyone, but that's no reason to try and spoil the fun for everyone who is enjoying.

GideonRavenor
20-10-2007, 19:45
I like Apocalypse an awful lot in principal, but I always end up playing someone who does something ridiculous, like unloading three carnifexes from a skullhammer. It's things like this which really torture the background which put me off.

The Dark One
20-10-2007, 20:10
Ok...so...a semi apology!

Had a game of Apoc today instore and it was fething cool. Very funny. Very enjoyable. The problem I found was that in big multiplayer games, it crumbles like my home baking.

Was proud of my Fire Dragons destroying warlord titan though.

i'm so glad you enjoyed it, just remember the problem main with that game was a couple of the gamers have slight short entensionspans or they just walked off during there opponents turn (personally nothing against those players). i would play a game on tuesday night it should logically run better, just remember play against people who want to play for fun for both sides


Is it really him? Gunline himself?

This must be one of his more "lucid" accounts.....


sorry but i may have missed something, but if you mean Son_Of_A_Horus, i really dout it as i know Son_Of_A_Horus

OBISPUDKENOBI
20-10-2007, 20:33
Ahh just proves my point that you can never please everyone all of the time,Personally i love Apoc, just the idea of it gets my juices flowing, dont get me wrong i always loved epic and the imperial armour books etc, but i am so so glad that GW have taken this idea mainstream,Its long over due but well worth the wait.
I hope that people really embrace the game and more important the ideals in the book so we can all get back to why we started in the first place which was to have fun (and eat pizza and drink beer)

superknijn
20-10-2007, 21:00
Meh, I don't really mind Apocalypse.

At least, I wouldn't if GW hadn't released the new boxes. I've currently got a (Commissar!) Baneblade assembled and am planning on buying the Tau Battlesuit Horde (or whatever it's called) box. It's just a quick way of expanding my (not too small to begin with) armies into impressive collections, and to improve the state of my Tau army. I mean, it's an army led by Brightswords closest friend, and shall even get a visit from the great Commander Farsight, when funds allow me to do so.

Grimtuff
20-10-2007, 21:23
sorry but i may have missed something, but if you mean Son_Of_A_Horus, i really dout it as i know Son_Of_A_Horus

See Wraithbored's post.

The asterisks make up the name of a banned user called ************* (see it's asterisked out ;) AKA Gunline) who had multiple clone accounts under different user names.

This would be one of his kind of topics in many people's opinions (up there with Brettonians being overpowered.)

Dark Seraphs
20-10-2007, 21:25
Those that went to the First heat GT got the chance to speak to few of the main guys in 40k.

First, the reason why they made Apocalypse is this, people that have been playing for a very long time have been building their armies for years. like me I've been collecting space marines for 7 years (I have few other armies aswell), and believe me. I got alot of space marines that will never get the chance to see the heat of battle in the standard 1500pt battles, I have a unit that costs over 500pts I love that unit, but they are too expensive to take them to a GT or something like that.

So they made Apocalypse so you will be able to field all these things that you have been building up for a long time.

If you are allready sick of Apocalypse, then you aren't really into Apocalypse and thats fine by me.

This is the first time GW gives a expansion for something bigger then the standard 1500pt army, they have made campains and other exiting things. This is the FIRST time they go into something larger.

like few have said before, Apocalypse is not ment to be played in tourniments, its ment to be played by friends, among friends you build up special unwritten rules, which inticate the standard army building. With Apocalypse GW let you explore and expand that thought and unwritten rule to a whole new level because it has no force chart. In the standard rule book it has to have the force chart, because of the GT and other Tourniments, The old time players should remember the dark ages of warhammer, where Herohammer ruled the world.

like this:
you play a Apocalypse battle with your friends, they field alot of troops and few tanks (like a standard IG army, just at 3000pts), then you field 5 baneblades.
The first thing your friend will say "man that army is boring". And he wont fight against a boring army. So you and your friends kinda made a unwritten rule of how a army should look like, Also most friends think alike and among them, know whats fun and what aint.
Apocalypse trusts that you have made that unwritten rule among your friends.


And Sorry I didn't ready your post that your said that you tried Apocalypse

Semitaire
20-10-2007, 21:58
One thing that annoys me about apocalypse is some armies are small to the point that they arn't much bigger than a standard 40k game (DE, 'hunters, ect.)
and yet people are taking vast armies of these forces.

The Eldar is a dying race and Apocalypse is why!

Hulkster
20-10-2007, 23:00
ahem

most apoc forces are still smaller than epic armies, especially eldar

i fail to see your point

Semitaire
20-10-2007, 23:01
don't worry I have a problem with epic with those armies as well

silashand
20-10-2007, 23:18
First, the reason why they made Apocalypse is this, people that have been playing for a very long time have been building their armies for years.

I got alot of space marines that will never get the chance to see the heat of battle in the standard 1500pt battles

So they made Apocalypse so you will be able to field all these things that you have been building up for a long time.

That's one reason I like Apoc. It's the first thing in literally *years* they've done for the veteran gamer and IMO it's extremely well done (though I think for a $50 rulebook it could have been a bit thicker like the basic rulebooks for 40K and WFB, but I'm not going to complain too loudly about that).

Cheers, Gary

Gensuke626
20-10-2007, 23:28
Dunno if apocalypse would be the same without Super Heavies...I mean, that's half the fun of the game. There's a reason I'm building myself a second stompa (Though I didn't build the first one myself...) and 3 fighta bommaz...Easiest way for me to ramp up my 1500 list to a 3k list...

cinera
21-10-2007, 00:16
Well.. i dislike the games of apocalypse where more than eight people play, because it gets confussing, people yelling across the table to get their oponents attention.
But do i dont dislike Apocalypse as a game.. 2 on 2 apocalypse is by far my favourite!

Orbital
21-10-2007, 00:47
Is anyone else getting sick of Apocalypse? I know I am

I can already tell this thread's gonna be a real good one.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5241/popcorntr3.gif

Templar Ben
21-10-2007, 00:48
I just finished my 6th Baneblade.

I must say I am getting sick of Apocalypse as well.

Chaos and Evil
21-10-2007, 01:07
don't worry I have a problem with epic with those armies as well

Care to explain?

Bunnahabhain
21-10-2007, 01:09
The hype is rather wearing, but the set-up is worth it.

I was playing Guard before Apocolypse was even rumoured of, and being able to use a majority of the army at once is wonderful. Full Infantry company? Armoured company? I dont have to choose now.

Because I want to enjoy the games, I make sure I take armies that other want to face, so I get more games.

And as for useless troops, you just need to think about them. If Guard storm troopers can be one of the most powerful units in the 20-30K point game ( stationary super heavy tanks, flank march, and melta bombs, four times their own value in dead armour)

Grimtuff
21-10-2007, 01:11
Care to explain?

Nah, vague throwaway comments seem to be the theme of this thread. Perhaps we'll never know why he dislikes a superior game system with larger armies...... :rolleyes:

baphomael
21-10-2007, 01:29
Apocolypse! A much needed injection of 'fun' into a game that should focus on 'fun'.

Sadly, it seems that its been such a long time that people are so used to 40k rules-lawyering and strict rules-bondage that they just dont know how to react to a bit of freedom and liberation to do things their own way.

The point of Apocolypse, besides big ass games, is to encourage a certain mentality amongst players. Its *not* about making armies of a hundred baneblades to try, in vain, at winning in life. Rather, Apocolypse is supposed to encourage players to try and do really cool themed or story-driven battles.

Yes, there are no force orgs. That isnt so a ten year old child with too much disposable income can field 10,000 points of Daemon Princes. Rather, that is so a group of gaming buddies can enact a storyline from a massive campain, like that battle somewhere (hey, you make up the fluff) during the Eye of Terror campaign when a Harlequin Troupe materialised out of the warp to assist those beleagured Guardsmen, or when an canny Imperial Commander used a load of wannabe-Guardsmen Blood Axes as meatshields before purging the heathen Xenos upon achieving victory.

Thats the kinda thing Apocolypse is aimed at. Its not meant for pick-up games. It requires a bit of planning, a bit of imagination and a bit of common sense. Its becomming clear, however, that not everyone is suited for this kind of game. People need to start remembering a thing called 'spirit of the game'.

KingNova3000
21-10-2007, 01:51
I bet GW are sick of people complaining about everything they do.

They've made a game aimed at the vets. People complained like crazy and said they were sick of GW ingnoring the vets. And when GW say "Alright fine, we understand we've made a mistake in ignoring the long term players, we'll get onto fixing that up." They release Apoc and then people start topics like this. For god's sake, if you dont like it thats bloody fantastic! If you're sick of it dont play it. Simple. No need to bash it for bashings sake.

Next thing GW will release an updated set of rules, people have been complaining like crazy they haven't done anything like that yet, but I bet just as many people will sook when they do release a set of fixed rules, forums will get hammered with topics like "Why should I have to buy a new book!" or "GW is ripping me off!" or "4th ed was only released in 2004!!! Why new ed!?!"

I really think a lot of people need to think before they speak (or in this case start a topic).

adreal
21-10-2007, 02:23
Hey Son, glad you enjoyed a game of apoc, if it was orginised right I bet it was a blast, maybe not ofr every game youp lay, but atleast you had fun right?

Lazarus15
21-10-2007, 03:40
Apoc. is fantastic! I have a place to use my titans and massive armies! I would love to play against that 20 GK Grand Masters with 3 Baneblades. I would EAT that army, but that is not even the point. If we had FUN, that is what it is about. If you cannot play ANY portion of the game and not have fun, you have no business playing. I played my legion of the damned army vs. my own eldar with TWO Revenents (one of each config). My buddy and I destroyed each army utterly. His vortex grenade tore through two term. squads and a couple of other things that I was using, and it was awesome! My LOTD got destroyed by the titans, but it was fun playing against them. I killed one with a vortex grenade of my own. THAT is the reason for apoc. For friends to get together, and have FUN playing with out restrictions of points and so on and so forth. Again...if people cannot have fun and be good sports playing the game, then don't play.

Damocles8
21-10-2007, 03:57
Ok, I haven't explained myself properly and I can see that.

Don't get me wrong, pushing 40k forwards is great, and big games are cool, but I don't agree with the removal of army structure, and the chucking together of various armies. I think it would be awesome to EXPAND the army structures, but still having the limits, that way peoples abilities to write good, well thought out army lists is still tested. Apocalypse just offers the opportunity to beard out your army as far as you could possibly imagine.

Well seeing as how MOST armies people play Apocalypse with are the same armies (for us poor folk) that we use for 40k....an organizastion is inherint within the army itself......and if you break the FOC in favor of oh say an armored company (company of Hammerheads would just be wrong....) but it would get people INTO their army....not force everyone to think the same way.....must have infantry......or bikes or whatnot......but you still need to think out your army.....learning to use what you have available, not write out what you think you can excell with is a bit more accurate....

Dark Seraphs
21-10-2007, 05:16
Some like Apoc and some dont.

I've played battles with 8+ players, it worked well if we had order over everything, the commanders over every army chatted about what they are going to do. But yeah, having too many is too much of a pain.

I haven't tried Apoc yet (but I've played large battles), and I'm dying here! I so want to test my few things I bought during the heat 1 GT!.

Revenant Titan, Nightwing and a Phoenix, while facing 1 warhound Titans and 2 Baneblades

MrGarm13
21-10-2007, 08:54
Those fools that want to use the 20 GKGM army with 12 supporting Baneblades will never get games. Apocalypse is meant to be played amongst friends who've been playing one another for years. So the whole "beardy army" thing will never happen as you're amongst friends.

They know what your gaming preferences are, otherwise they would not be a regular opponent nor your friend. The system is foolproof IMO.[/QUOTE]


The system breaks down when you live in the middle of nowhere and really don't have much a choice.

I haven't played a game of Apocalypse yet and I know it's going to go terrible. Haven't played City Fight either. Suppose that only works when you've got an actual city to fight in though.

Orbital
21-10-2007, 08:57
The system breaks down when you live in the middle of nowhere and really don't have much a choice.

You always have the choice to not play a game that you won't enjoy.

Son_Of_A_Horus
21-10-2007, 09:29
I notice that ALMOST everyone has ignored my apology lol. I had a game yesterday and it was great. Really good fun and it was satisfying watching 25 Daemonhunters go down to Eldar guns. Even more satisfying was watching the Warlord Titan go Apoc....although the blast was only 25 inches and took the majority of my remaining army....

What I'm getting at is...does anyone think things could be improved in the way Apoc is marketed?

TheOverlord
21-10-2007, 10:04
The only thing that makes something better is to simply make it bigger :D

Glad to see you enjoyed yourself. I've yet to play a game myself, but it sure looks fun. Our group managed to snag 3 baneblades, 1 more on the way, and a brass scorpion for me :D I know, I know, a mega baneblade battle would've rocked awesome, but there's nothing more fun than watching 4 baneblades duke it out while a scuttling monstrosity sneaks up on them and smashing their reactor cores to force an apoc explosion :D

Killgore
21-10-2007, 10:50
i beleave alot of the apocalypse hate is from people who have sour grapes, because they see some people with warmachines/ titans and big armys and cant afford them themselfs, and the closest they come to big battles is the mess they call a games workshop store saturday megabattle

i say give it time young grasshopper, for one day you too might have a big army if you stick with it, your own house and games room!

Loki73
21-10-2007, 11:29
NOw see, that is a good thought. I like expansion, I like using a solid army and I like some of the formations that are coming in (Line Breaker for example). It's just the inclusion of the large stuff. I'd be interested in playing someone who isn't out to just field the big stuff.

All things in apoc should be ironed out befpre game. You dont have to play with titans super heavies and the formations to play Apoc.

I know the old timers in my group are lookin forward to it cause in some ways it brings us back to 2nd ed. Which we liked for the most part and have alot of fond memories.

Also, its made for friendly play. Alot of people are excited about it because of that alone. The tourney scene gets a bit tiresome at times so this is a good deviation.

microeric
21-10-2007, 11:32
Apocalypse is fun and all, but I still prefer Epic over it.

Templar Ben
21-10-2007, 14:24
What I'm getting at is...does anyone think things could be improved in the way Apoc is marketed?

Now that is a great question. We will have to think about several things first.

What is the target demographic?
What are the media best able to reach that demographic?
What are the costs associated with using that media?
What forms of marketing normally work with the target demographic?

I will not touch the demographic issue that GW targets because.... well I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I think you see Apoc overload because Apoc was only advertised in two places, stores selling GW product and White Dwarf magazine. Naturally the cost to have the sales people push the line was just a bit of training material. Ads are not sold in White Dwarf so that is a minimal opportunity cost. So you had basically two channels with little cost so GW natually flooded those.

Was it too heavy handed? Well I know how subtle Saturday Morning Cartoon ads are so I know it works.

Hope that helps.

Orbital
21-10-2007, 14:25
Apocalypse is fun and all, but I still prefer Epic over it.

There's less painting, that's for sure :)

Champsguy
21-10-2007, 16:12
Our last big megabattle saw a guy take 20 Chaos Lords as part of his army. Of course, there were like 20 Carnifexes on the field as well, so it was just fine. If someone wanted to take 6 Baneblades, I'd say "cool". Although I think the most anyone bought at our store was 4.

If you have a really small army, then team up with someone for Apoc. If you've got 1000 points of Eldar, then throw it in alongside the 15,000 points of Imperials that some old bastard who has been playing since 1986 is using. You don't have to make up the entire force yourself.

The only thing we've "disallowed" in Apoc is the Ork Speedfreak preliminary bombardment. In our first "official" Apoc game a guy was gonna take 100 of them. :D Everyone said "no" because it would have killed every infantryman on the board (including people on his own side) and none of us wanted to take the time to deploy if we just had to pack them all back up. Everything else has been fair game. Go ahead and take 20 Land Raiders. When the Str D weapons and the vortex grenades come out, it'll be fun. Take 1000 guardsmen. Just don't take the old metal Thunderhawk, because it weighs like 40 pounds and you'll damage the table, and we spent a lot of money to make the terrain nice.

EmperorEternalXIX
21-10-2007, 16:25
If somebody threw 150 harlequins at me I'd be pleased. I have a Thunderhawk. Nobody's assaulting that, heh.

I have yet to see any unfairness in apocalypse. Initially I was concerned about the mixing of armies but nobody I know is really doing that, they'd rather utilize a full single army then two chunks...also fluff is a concern for the group I play with (one guy isn't using his necrons because it doesn't make sense that they would ally with Eldar/Orks/Tyranids, for example).

Ultimately I found a lot of this thread to be very illogical. What kind of response can one expect when you make a thread saying you don't like the thing that the whole rest of the board is going gaga for?

zbeam
21-10-2007, 16:44
What I'm getting at is...does anyone think things could be improved in the way Apoc is marketed?


so there i am having ciggarette and browsing over the latest issue of (aussie) white dwarf. at first the massive stuff is impressive indeed. then i see these pages with completely decked out SM and eldar armies with GRAND TOTAL:3000 points...

i chuckled and thought how about listing the total cost in $ rather than points to be fair.

now mind you, im a married adult. ive been interested in 40k since i was 8 years old and found a box of 30 plastic beakies for $30 in a hobby store. off and on ive bought GW products from then till now (im 25). ive easily spent $1000's over the years on 4 paint ranges and 5 armies (40k).

but seriously, every time i step into a GW store around australia and its after school hours the place is packed with primary school kids and upward. im honestly appalled at some of the marketing going on right now. and im not even a parent.


if any parent out there ever saw these "apocalypse army deals" that cost $100's im sure they would be p1$$ed off as well.




fair enough to those who work, who use thier own cash to pay for the product or who allready have exsisting large collections will all rightly so enjoy apocalypse.
its just not right to market any of this to anyone under a certain age in any way.



also, i love sculpting converting and painting. theseare aspects of the hobby i enjoy the most and apocalypse honestly has brought nothing creative to the hobby at all. its mass consumerism at its worst IMO.
the superdetailed 40k ruleset rumoured a while back would have been much better for the hobby (a revised and expanded kill team Vs killteam ruleset for example). apocalypse if enough product is sold will be great for the share price of GW however.

Adra
21-10-2007, 17:24
i sorta understand both sides of this. apoc has gotten alot of coverage for something that is just for fun. not sure if something so free should be forced so much. plus im a sinic and i cant help but see how well gw are doing from apoc just as they started to slump.

that said, its fun enough and its easy to not read the apoc threads :D

Maybe we need an apoc room

But you know what i really hate about apoc? Its the line thats being said over and over and over. That the rules in apoc, such as the no foc or army limits, is because the game is designed to be "just for fun." What, exactly, are they implying by that? That normal 40k isnt for fun? that you cant play a game with limits "just for fun"? I play every game of 40k "just for fun" but apparently im a hard core win hungry dribbling ***** cos 40k is for the manic odd freaks of GW and Apoc is for thouse crazy fun loving fellows who just play for giggles and desperatly attempt to dodge the stigma of being a geek. Randomly knitting a massive random ball of wool can be fun, but so can making a jumper.

ChaosMaster
22-10-2007, 00:04
Sadly, a lot of people don't play regular 40K for fun, especially some of the tournament players. Hence, the reminders that Apocalypse is in no way intended for "serious competition".