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ThorOdensson
20-10-2007, 14:14
What is it exactly that Gellar Fields do?

I gather that they protect ships in warp-space/the immaterium from attack by warp entities/daemons.

How does it do this they create a bubble of real-space within warp-space that the ship inhabits? Do they mask/cloak the ship from detection?

Could Gellar fields be setup on planets to protect them from warp entities/daemons? i.e. similar to how the Necron Pylons prevent real-space/warp-space overlap

calicojack
20-10-2007, 14:23
In essence, they are a specialized force field, which is resistant to the Immaterium as well as to normal material universe energy/matter. They take vast amounts of energy and careful calibration.

Oh, and Ork force field technology can apparently do the job as well [grins]. The Gellar field then, forms a force field around an Imperial ship whilst in "Real space," and amintains those contents from mixing with the Immaterium when it enters "Warp space."

Chilltouch
20-10-2007, 14:39
They maintain reality within the Warp - a bubble. Without it, material would dissolve into nothingness and even people would dissipate and become raw Warp energy. It protects the ship from Daemons by forcing them into a physical form - otherwise they would simply be able to eat their souls - Daemons are lethal enough in reality, imagine fighting them on their home-ground.

MrBigMr
20-10-2007, 14:55
They maintain reality within the Warp - a bubble. Without it, material would dissolve into nothingness and even people would dissipate and become raw Warp energy. It protects the ship from Daemons by forcing them into a physical form - otherwise they would simply be able to eat their souls - Daemons are lethal enough in reality, imagine fighting them on their home-ground.
Sounds a bit like Final Fantasy: Spirits Within, where the Ghosts would simply pass through people and consume their souls, but humans developed shields that repel the Ghosts.

But what about such things as space hulks or whole planets that get taken into the Warp and from time to time emerge back into real space? I understood that in Dark Adeptus (haven't read it, just what I understood of the story) a whole planet disappeared into the Warp and emerged a 100 years later as a sort of daemon world.

Hellebore
20-10-2007, 15:14
Matter doesn't turn into warp energy if it is transported to the warp necessarily, and people can survive without a gellar field. The problem with that is there is no protection from the multitude of warp predators that swim the ether, and so you end up having your soul torn to shreds.

Hellebore

Noserenda
20-10-2007, 15:17
Yeah theres been a couple of instances of Gellar fields dropping and in every case nothing dissolved unless a gribbly daemon was eating it, of which there were infinity billion of the buggers crawling in to eat the contents of the unfortunate ship.

And the direct influence of the Chaos gods, which is pleasant either :chrome:

Kage2020
20-10-2007, 15:37
What is it exactly that Gellar Fields do?
Seemingly, whatever you want them to do or, more usually, whatever you don't want them to at a narratively convenient time. ;)

In general, though, as everyone else points out they're basically a "reality bubble" that protects you from the warp gribblies. Kinda. The descriptions of it are a bit tenuous and muddied by the Exceptionist stance perpetuated by the novels (i.e. narrative convenience for a given story element).

With that said, for me the Geller Field is like the hull of a submarine. It keeps the water out, though the deeper you go the greater the stress on the hull, until eventually it fractures with the pressure. Or, in this case, unreality.

For me, though, the Geller Field serves an additional purpose: directional control. In essence, it is a huge electromagnetic "sail" (and "rudder"). The Navigator - or the ships compu... sorry, cogitator :rolleyes: - alters the surfaces to enable limited directional control when within a given warp current. This is in part why the Navigated jump is considered to be 'safer' than the calculated jump. In the calculated jump (or at least I would argue) the 'warp sensors' take a series of snapshots of the local conditions and then calculate how to manipulate the Geller Fields to achieve the objective of travelling from point A to point B (or more accurately, point A to A', then B' and then B). The longer that you spend running the algorithms the greater the precision of the trip, but the increasing probability that the calculations are going to be incorrect at the time of the jump. The Navigator, on the other hand, can react to any changes in the flows, unpredictable warp phenomena (rip-tides, uprisings form the deeper warp or whatever), etc.

Again, though, that's just me.


Do they mask/cloak the ship from detection?
Nope. Psykers may be able to add some additional protection to the Geller Field, though. This used to be a field of "Daemonic Protection," referenced in Watson's Inquisitor/Draco. Of course, the newer material tends to imply that the use of psychic abilities when in the warp is bad, which makes a kind of sense.


Could Gellar fields be setup on planets to protect them from warp entities/daemons?
Why would you want to? You're already surrounded by (for the most part) a universe-sized Geller Field, at least if you're to take the idea that it primarily creates a bubble of material reality around the ship. ;)

Just some quick thoughts.

Edit: And now for some replies... ;)


Without it, material would dissolve into nothingness and even people would dissipate and become raw Warp energy.
I'm with hellebore on this one. I find the idea that material artefacts are dissolved by the warp to be as unpalatable as the "cork theory," i.e. turn off your Geller Field and you drop immediately back into the material universe. Thus I would personally argue that if you switch off your Geller Field you'll be fine... kinda. Then you're going to have to deal with daemons and other warp predators finding you, especially since you've essentially jumped into the ocean with the psychic equivalent of a huge cut on your leg. The sharks are going to find you, eventually, and when you jumped out of the boat you lost one of the main advantages you had, i.e. you weren't in the sharks environment.

On the other hand, if you've got an object that is cast adrift in the warp it is (for me, once again) going to be just fine... kinda. If it could stay right at the "top" of the warp in the shallows - the point of maximum congruence between reality and unreality - then for the most part it would remain unchanged. Chances of that happening, though, are pretty slim. What is more likely is that it will be dragged down into the deeper parts of the warp where "unreality" increases. This is where you get funky things happening, such as ships merging together (rather than crashing together), as well as other oddities.


It protects the ship from Daemons by forcing them into a physical form...
Which, of course, is draining but not impossible. In essence, as Chilltouch says, it essentially puts between you and the daemon the same barrier that exists between the warp and the material universe. Well, kinda. Maybe. The barriers can be weakened, but generally the easiest way to get through that barrier is to be called.


...and so you end up having your soul torn to shreds.
Makes you wonder what happens to the physical remains!? <grin>

Kage

BrotherAdso
20-10-2007, 15:40
Yeah, they have it more or less on target.

The Gellar Field doesn't protect the ship the way a force field would. A ship or other physical object can pass into the warp as a coherent object -- it doesn't explode into bits or disintigrate. However, things that LIVE in the Warp don't neccessarily have physical form, but can be deadly to physical things that enter, especially ones with souls.

The Gellar Field repels these psychic entities or, if they don't go away, forces them to take physical form before they can interact with the physical matter or souls within the Gellar Field. It's like taking a little bit of your universe with you, and anyone who wants to chew on you has to step into it first.

Chilltouch
20-10-2007, 16:20
Yeah, I think I got that bit wrong - it doesn't cause objects to dissolve into nothingness. I guess that it protects the ship and its crew from the warping influence of... eh... the Warp.

MrBigMr
20-10-2007, 16:48
Kage, check ya quotes.


But I wonder if other races have their own version of the Gellar field. There was already talks about the Orks, but what about the Eldar (don't they do short Warp jumps if their Webway doesn't extend to where they are going?), Kroot and even Chaos. I doubt that just because Chaos worshipers are close to the boss, the daemons might not always feel such courtesy and feed on the crew anyways.

Could psychic powers or sorcery used to strenthen the Gellar field or make a mock version of it?

Chilltouch
20-10-2007, 16:54
Kroot made their Warspheres based on knowledge obtained from Ork Mekboys - so their fields are probably the same - forcefields. Chaos? They don't need Gellar fields. Their gods will protect them if they're valued and if not, they're corrupted.

Kage2020
20-10-2007, 17:44
...but what about the Eldar (don't they do short Warp jumps if their Webway doesn't extend to where they are going?)...
Yes, the chances are that the Eldar have fully developed "Geller Field" or an equivalent. At least in my mind.

Kage

heretics bane
20-10-2007, 18:01
Do the eldar actaully warp jump? i though they used the webway? but as everyone else has said that it creates a bubble of "reality" around the ship but these can sometimes fail like in flight of the einstien where there fields fail and deamons come aboard

Kage2020
20-10-2007, 18:03
Well, they have the capability of performing normal warp jumps, but they tend not to. After all, why bother when you've got the Webway? ;)

Kage

mistformsquirrel
20-10-2007, 18:05
I can't imagine the Eldar *don't* have some equivelant. I mean... an Eldar in the warp without protection is like tossing a big juicy cow into a pool of piranhas >.>

*edit*

They don't make warp jumps often - but if the Webway is either corrupted or doesn't extend to where they want it to be (a rarity its true, but it does happen) - then they do use warp capability.

Takitron
20-10-2007, 18:07
someone please tell me they are named after Yuri Gellar. I have this funny image about spoons bending when they make the jump to the Empyrian

Vaulkhar
20-10-2007, 18:18
Never heard anything about it one way or the other. Although since the main purpose of the field is to stop spoons bending (along with limbs, spines, hull plating and souls) you could argue that it might be the case. Yuri Geller...saint of the Adeptus Mechanicus...*shudder*

Takitron
20-10-2007, 18:21
Never heard anything about it one way or the other. Although since the main purpose of the field is to stop spoons bending (along with limbs, spines, hull plating and souls) you could argue that it might be the case. Yuri Geller...saint of the Adeptus Mechanicus...*shudder*

Nah, he was the first astropath, his mind bent space around ships! thats it!

baphomael
20-10-2007, 18:34
I see lots of points being raised about how, should a geller field fail, a material object is sort-of OK.

The question that runs through my mind is *how*? The Laws of Physics as we know them do not apply in the Warp. I just cant seem to see how a physical object can actually *exist* within the warp at all? I thought the point of Gellar Fields was to allow physical objects to actually exist within the warp in the first place (as well as protect it from the gribblies that exist there).

Vaulkhar
20-10-2007, 19:14
You're forgetting space hulks, which routinely spend millennia in the warp without functional (or with only barely functional) Geller fields. These can be salvaged when spat back out into realspace (BFG notes that the battleship Divine Right spent an estimated ten millennia in the warp and it was still useable after an extensive refit).

Physical objects can exist within warp space...but they probably won't come out with quite the same shape as the one they went in with.

Kage2020
20-10-2007, 19:29
I see lots of points being raised about how, should a geller field fail, a material object is sort-of OK.

The question that runs through my mind is *how*?
How not?

Of course, the answer depends on your interpretation. I believe the "unreality" increases as one goes deeper into the warp until such a point as you reach a singularity, which one might consider the "Realms of Chaos." In the shallows, though? That is the point of maximum congruence... At least in my interpretation.


I thought the point of Gellar Fields was to allow physical objects to actually exist within the warp in the first place (as well as protect it from the gribblies that exist there).
If you wanted to get quirky, you could argue that an inhabited ship would actually have a Geller Field of a sort, as the ships crew impose their own sense of reality on the warp. Of course, the problem there is that you wouldn't want the reality of most people. ;)

Kage

heretics bane
20-10-2007, 20:12
You're forgetting space hulks, which routinely spend millennia in the warp without functional (or with only barely functional) Geller fields. These can be salvaged when spat back out into realspace (BFG notes that the battleship Divine Right spent an estimated ten millennia in the warp and it was still useable after an extensive refit).

Physical objects can exist within warp space...but they probably won't come out with quite the same shape as the one they went in with.

yeah most space hulks are various ships smashed togeather by the warp, if you've ever read the soul drinkers oomnibus there ship the broken abck is massive and has like 12 differnet ships smashed togeather pre-heresy,pre-imperial and ailen ships all in one ship.

The warp works in strange ways, a few days in could be ten millenia outside

Kymar
21-10-2007, 00:13
As for ships and other material objects dissolving in warp space, I agree with most that though terrible dangerous, warp space doesn't directly destroy material.

For example, the back story for Typhus & the DeathGuard (http://uk.games-workshop.com/chaosspacemarines/typhus/1/), describes how they were left drifting in the warp for a very long time. Eventually their Gellar Field fails and the "destroyer" plague invades them, turning them into Plague Marines.

Biomass Denial
21-10-2007, 01:02
How do nids travel? Shadow in the warp calms the area?

Edit: Woot 200 posts

Iracundus
21-10-2007, 03:20
Presumably. There is no mention of any Tyranid biological equivalent to the Gellar field. However in the latest Tyranid Codex and previous Tyranid sources, they have never had trouble travelling through the warp. The accepted general consensus is that the Tyranid gestalt consciousness means the fleet in the warp is the equivalent of one single gargantuan psychic entity, overpowering or pushing aside the psychic forms of the individual little daemons.

Vaulkhar
21-10-2007, 03:49
I always assumed the Shadow in the Warp acted as the 'nid daemon-be-gone thingumy.