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View Full Version : Apocalypse...what a great excuse for Mercs!



Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 15:04
Something someone mentioned in another thread got my mind whirring away on this 'un....

He mentioned a proposed sheet (created by himself) for Space Lizard Mercs. And that is a very good idea, and great point.

Why not create Legendary Units of Mercs? Could be fun!

Hlokk
21-10-2007, 15:19
Agreed, it could be a really good blast to try knocking up those units from the BL books like the Loaxtyl (SP?) and the blood pact that you always wanted to see played.

Also, its a good way to do those units which are described as stupidly hard in the BL books and thus don't translate well into normal games of 40k. :D

Cheers for that MDG, you've crippled my bank account for the next 2 months :cries:

Brother Loki
21-10-2007, 15:21
Good point MDG. 'Legendary Units' does sound rather like 'Regiments of Renown', doesn't it? THere's nothing really to say a legendary unit needs to be a vehicle or whatever.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 15:24
Indeed!

In your face Hlokk!

I feel yet another Rules Dev thread coming on....oh dear.

leonmallett
21-10-2007, 15:25
I am already seeking bits for that Space Lizardman Mercenaries formation, Mad Doc...

EVIL INC
21-10-2007, 15:28
That does sound good. Offhand, I (and anyone else I am sure) could come up with good ones. Here are a few of mine...
1. Squats. Surely at least a few survived. This would allow those of us who are squat lovers could field some of them while not having to worry about making a whole army of them. They wouldnt even need to be "fighters". They could be techs who give bonuses to equipment of support.
2. Space lizerds (yeah, I know someone already came up with it). A wide variety. My main thoughts are carapace armored tough guys that look cool. Maybe give them extra jungle fighter rules like the catachans to represent thier background in jungle worlds (Lustria).
3. Kroot. I am sure that there are a few kroot who have eaten exotic genetic material that could give them extra abilities. If not, maybe just a unit with really cool fluff.
4. Banished marines. I cant remember the book, think it was Ultramarines omnibus, where they were banished from the chapter and assigned a suicide task. Perhaps, that has happened to other marines or units or maybe even some from a variety of chapters so that different members have special roles.
5. Rogue traders. Nuff said.
6. Imperial gaurd units led by Roman Legion style commanders. They are rich enough to supply thier soldiers with the best equipment and does so. They might be considered "soft" by the harder working grunts, but they are healthier, better educated and better armed/equiped.
7. Beastmen. In the making of my beastman necromunda gang, I found that they look stunning with 40k weapons like sluggas, shootas and such. After thier use in Imperial Gaurd regiments, the underground community of mutants within the imperium have created thier own vigilante squads and some of the more unothadox commanders will make use of them. Of course, the commissars make sure they are "not aware" of them. Then again, I am sure that there are many who feel slighted by thier getting put of of military service and feel the need to rebel.
8. Gangs. Like the beastmen but they have been recruited as a whole by a rogue trader, inquisitor, maybe even hijacked an insystom flyer and have decided to turn pirate.
9. Entertainers. Stunt flyers who have decided to "put the navy to shame" and tag along after the navy to a battle just to show off. They are ignored as they actually do well on the battlefield but they are hated by the reguler flyers and commanders for having "convenient" lapses in radio communications. The second they screw up, they will be arrested and executed (which the navy flyers will GLADLY do).
10. A particuler commissar who is not much better then an ogre himself leading a unit of ogres. Not very original I know.
Bring back the Last Chancers, and others from before. The possibilities are as endless as your imagination.
If I am correct and you can bring in just about any units from any army, you can create your own regiments of reknown. Just convert up a unit from whatever army and make up your fluff. I agree it would be cool to have some "official" ones done though with special rules.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 15:28
Excellent! I'd suggest some kind of conversion based off Saurus and that.

The trick with Fantasy stuff is avoiding the look of 'Elf with Gun' style conversions, which ain't easy!

leonmallett
21-10-2007, 15:33
My plan is to use bits of Kroot dangly gubbins and the SM small packs on GS bandoliers to give a primitive space warriors feel.

As for rules, I was thinking basically Ork-ish stats (including save, or maybe 5+ save), but nicking the Cold-blooded Leadership rule from Fantasy (thought about Stubborn but it is a bit too powerful), carrying Slugga equivalent with CCW, or Shootas (or new-rumoured Shoota equivalent) for about 10 points per model.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 15:36
Sounds cool!

Am going to have to come up with my own one now!

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 15:46
Oooh....Renegade Tau Human Auxilia....

Big battle, Tau get mooshed, former Human subjects half inch their weapons, and go rogue, selling their services across the Sector... Right, concept now sorted. Wonder if I could convert a Sentinel to have a Seeker Missile?

leonmallett
21-10-2007, 15:47
Oooh....Renegade Tau Human Auxilia....

Big battle, Tau get mooshed, former Human subjects half inch their weapons, and go rogue, selling their services across the Sector... Right, concept now sorted. Wonder if I could convert a Sentinel to have a Seeker Missile?


What about a Rail Rifle (TL of course - from the Sniper Team drones), or even mounting TL Burst Cannon?

El Presedente
21-10-2007, 15:51
Great Idea, I may just rob that to add to the swaiths of mercenrys i'm making to complament my Guard army, (blood axe orks, kroot, merc marines) check out my log if you wan't to see the start I've made (which I one model at the moment)

Anybody ever thought about Tau mercs?

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 15:51
Was thinking of keeping it more Infantry based. They can probably figure out sticking a Seeker Missile on one, but to re-fit it's main weapon (unless it's a pintle mount...) and patch it into the power systems would be beyond them.

Yes....a rag tag squad of Infantry, in a Chimera, with a Sentinel in support, all armed with Tau weapons. Not meant to be game winning, just a cool reflection of the sort of nonsense available to the player!

Hlokk
21-10-2007, 16:02
Evil: I have a squad of beastmen done like that, but normally use them as conscripts in an IG army.

The following ideas spring to mind:

1: Farsight enclave. Can't see any reason Farsight wouldnt hire out some of his battlesuits as mercinaries.

2: Blood axe kommando formations. Perhaps kommandos who have gone a bit more imperial than other kommandos, using the platoon/company structure. Could be a laugh.

3: Spryer hunting parties: Perhaps spryer technology spread from necromunda, and these guys deploy within a battlefield, see how much crap they can blow up/kill, then leave after a time limit runs out.

4: Genestealer hybrids. Use them in a nid army, perhaps using guard rules for conscripts but with T4 and purestrains as sargs.

5: Alpha class psykers: Weak model but with stupidly good psychic powers.

6: megarachnid: From the HH books. SST arachnid models would look amazing.

7: Skinnies: again from the SST line, could be used as a unique cheesy 1980's sci-fi merc unit.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 16:18
Now I've thought it over, I think the best way to run a Merc Datasheet is to create it as a small army in it's own right.

So, HQ, troops, Elites and either Fast Attack or Heavy Support, with a couple of well chosen advantage thingies.

And it looks like I'll be able to go all silly over Apocalypse properly in a couple of months. Start my new job tomorrow (9.30 start!) and been told there is plenty over time. Just an extra hour a day will equate to and additional 260 a month....maha...mahahahahahahahahaha! Hmmm....Oh Forgeworld...I want a word....

AdmiralDick
21-10-2007, 17:09
not wanting to be the voice of doom, but isn't the main point of mecenaries that they supply something, to nearly every army, something that they otherwise can't get hold of (and by 'something' i mean a battle field function rather than a specific weapon). and as you are more than able to take what ever you want from whatever codex you want in Apoc games, shouldn't we be thinking more outside the box than 'renegade Tau'?

there's precious little point in making a Merc unit of something that already exists, because you might as well just use the rules they already have. now, if you could introduce something that either typifies and enhances that army, or is altogether new to the 40k game, then you are on to a winner.

so why not:
- a sort of Slaan Shaman Council? after all they taught the eldar everything they know, their own version of a Seer Council and the benifits it could confer to the rest of the army could be impressive.
- Demiurg Walking Tanks? there are a number of armies that don't have there own super heavies (or at least not enough of them to provide choice). surely the super-advanced mass production skills of the Demiurg allow them to ship their blast resistant tanks to whoever's willing to pay for them.
- Demiurg Automata Soldiers? if the tanks aren't your thing maybe you're looking for more rank and file troops to provide numbers or just a sheild, and the Demiurg are more than willing to provide their services again.
- a Jokero Artificier? arch rival of the Demiurg (who are noted for their mass production over quality) the Jokero are an invaluable ally to anyone who can get them to help. again the benifits in wargear of having a single one around are increadible.
- an Ork Teleporta? Orks have an innate knowledge of various energy field technologies (force fields, teleportation, traction beams etc), and it is far from unusual to find exiled Oddboyz selling their equipment in return for funds to carry on 'experimen'in''.
- Hrud Fusileers? enemy artillery prooving a problem? well Hrud Fusileers are here to help; able to secrete themselves behind enemy lines (either by teleporting or burrowing, depending on what background you prefer) their plasma fusils will quickly eat through tanks. and as they are rather pathetic creatures who are not so good out in the open, they're unlikely to return and probably won't need paying.
- a Xenarch Cel? tough troops simply walking through your lines picking and choosing targets with no one to stop them? well the high strength and AP of Xenach Death Arcs makes them perfect for cutting through space marines and Necrons alike. and being able to discharge themselves into an enemy means they can handle themselves in combat too. (and they are nothing like as tough as their prefered enemy so no one can complain that you are using the same tactics).

those are just some basic ideas that i've had in the past, but i'm sure you guys are plenty creative enough to come up with other, better things.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-10-2007, 17:20
Hmmm. Well, thanks for insulting my intelligence, and my concept.

There are hundreds of potential options. I came up with my one, and am pretty chuffed.

Brother Loki
21-10-2007, 17:24
Wait, who's insulting anyone? :confused:

EVIL INC
21-10-2007, 17:44
It is a personal thing what each person wants to do with his or her army. No need to insult others because you dont agree with your concept.
I personally like the idea of using things that are already there and just giving them a twist. Maybe just to change the model and image so that it fits with a different army without having looking odd. Heck, I even like the idea of just making existing units that look extra cool and have a special storyline. (Look at what forgeworld does to the gaurd).
Likewise, you can go the other route and make entirely new things and let your imagination run wild.
I like the former as I am not going to kid myself into thinking that I will play apocolypse more often then on rare occasions and want my models to be of use in reguler games as well.

AdmiralDick
21-10-2007, 18:01
Hmmm. Well, thanks for insulting my intelligence, and my concept.

There are hundreds of potential options. I came up with my one, and am pretty chuffed.

i'm very sorry, i didn't mean to insult anyone. and i certainly didn't mean to insult your idea. quite the opposite, i was intending to add some more depth or at least another direction to the mix.

i thought you're concept of Space Lizards was a fine starting point, in fact it would be a little stupid of me to insult it because you didn't say anything at all about the way that it would opperate. so i apologies unreservedly, if that's how i came across.

i've long wanted there to be a Codex: Mercs, and just wanted to help out. if i was offering a criticism of any kind it was about units of Space Marines, Kroot and IG, and then it was only a caution that all of which would need to be something above and beyond that found in their respective Codexes to make them worth taking over a regular unit.


It is a personal thing what each person wants to do with his or her army. No need to insult others because you dont agree with your concept.

i entirely agree and again i apologise if that's how i came across it was not my intention. i was merely trying to add a voice of game balance, and to move things beyond the subjective topic of what conversions we would personally like to see and on to the topic of what units could we invent that everyone would like to see.


I personally like the idea of using things that are already there and just giving them a twist.

again, i agree. there is no reason not to include a unit of Space Marines that have a twist and can thus do things other Space Marines can't. but i would just explain that to change it at all it to stop it from being something that is 'already there'.

if i've spoken out of place then i'm sorry, it need not delay the thread any longer.

srgt. gak
21-10-2007, 18:08
great idea. I see some sst marines comin on the board with bolters blazing with a banished squad of blood ravens leading them. or mabye even having some last chancers comin on.

boogle
21-10-2007, 22:14
Very very interesting idea Mad Dok, IF you do go ahead with this keep us up to speed on how things are looking

Hlokk
21-10-2007, 22:14
Now I've thought it over, I think the best way to run a Merc Datasheet is to create it as a small army in it's own right.

So, HQ, troops, Elites and either Fast Attack or Heavy Support, with a couple of well chosen advantage thingies.
See, I like this idea as well. Not a specialist squad as such, but a specialist formation of them.

Do I assume that the original HQ/Troops/elites etc should have seperate points values (potentially) allowing them to be fielded in normal 40k or a job-lot points value?

srgt. gak
22-10-2007, 00:08
heres my list for my mercs im adding.

hq: chapter masters

elites: two six man squads of banished marines.

troops. two squads of sst light troopers w/ bolters missle launchers and sniper rifles. count a the merc equivelant of storm troopers.

fast attack:a squad of scout with 5 bloters and one heavy bolter.

and im going to give them all the scout specail rule where they can take the free move.i might instead roll battle honors for them.or i might have them be drop troops. I havent made my mind up


what do you guys think. Is this list legal for normal games or is it strickly for apocalypse.

El Presedente
22-10-2007, 01:33
I think as long as you have a HQ and 2 troops, or your oppononts permision then its OK.

Grimbad
22-10-2007, 06:03
'Oomie-lovin' blood axe ork gitz and their tons and tons of ork tanks.

ssgtdude
22-10-2007, 06:16
reminds me of back in the day for the old alien races you could play. Slann was a playable race back then

Lord Merlin
22-10-2007, 08:30
Merc races.
Kroot
Humans
Orks
various obscure xenos
Space marines Are not mercenaries no way they'd fight for money

El Presedente
22-10-2007, 10:25
Space marines Are not mercenaries no way they'd fight for money

Yet they'd turn traitor to the temptations of evil Gods?

Lord Merlin
22-10-2007, 10:31
Yet they'd turn traitor to the temptations of evil Gods?
Personally I'd consider unlimited power and live long freedom(Just a temptation) a much better motivator than a few coins which they don't need. Thats what the AdMech is for. If you had them fighting with chaos(Which would be pretty pointless) then I'd understand. But having "Merc" SM just makes no sense.

El Presedente
22-10-2007, 10:40
Personally I'd consider unlimited power and live long freedom(Just a temptation) a much better motivator than a few coins which they don't need. Thats what the AdMech is for. If you had them fighting with chaos(Which would be pretty pointless) then I'd understand. But having "Merc" SM just makes no sense.

They could be still loyal and the merc stage is part of the initiation

They could be still loyal but need to gather money some way to support the chapter

They could be excomunicate and hireing themselves out is the only way to seek out combat

They could be a small group on a personal vendetta and occasionally hire themselves out.

They could realise that giving themseves up to chaos will damn their souls for all eternity but still have a desire for wealth.

I could go on

Lord Merlin
22-10-2007, 10:53
They could be still loyal and the merc stage is part of the initiation

They could be still loyal but need to gather money some way to support the chapter

They could be excomunicate and hireing themselves out is the only way to seek out combat

They could be a small group on a personal vendetta and occasionally hire themselves out.

They could realise that giving themseves up to chaos will damn their souls for all eternity but still have a desire for wealth.

I could go on


So, you'd let your initiates go off, with geneseed in them and be mercs, essentially cannon fodder for the enemy without an apothecary?

Why would marines need money at all? Unless they've suffered like 70% losses then yeah if they're short of tech marines or something.

Can you imagine an imperial commander allowing excommunicate marines to fight alongside him? And if they're still loyal they wouldn't fight with anyone else.

What kind of marines leave the chapter? It seems a bit like a betrayal to me. And what could a small group of space marines be on a vandetta for?
your last one is worded kind of funky so I don't get it.

Mr Zephy
22-10-2007, 13:15
In 40k, it wouldn't be money so much, as other resources. The space marines need to fight so that:

An orbiting dockyard will repair their strike cruiser

A hive world replenishes their stocks of ammo.

An imperial commander will give them some Leman Russ to replace their lost Predators.

I'm sure there are more ideas out there.

Myself, I'd like to see an Ogryn command squad for an army of ogryns from one of their home planets:

Ogryn officer: Huge hat, enormous power sword, shiny medals

Ogryn special weapon: Big ripper gun

Ogryn Standard Bearer: holds flag in one huge fist

Ogryn medic: with bonesaw

Ogryn comms guy: Big radio, with uncrushable parts.

EVIL INC
22-10-2007, 13:43
So, you'd let your initiates go off, with geneseed in them and be mercs, essentially cannon fodder for the enemy without an apothecary?

Why would marines need money at all? Unless they've suffered like 70% losses then yeah if they're short of tech marines or something.

Can you imagine an imperial commander allowing excommunicate marines to fight alongside him? And if they're still loyal they wouldn't fight with anyone else.

What kind of marines leave the chapter? It seems a bit like a betrayal to me. And what could a small group of space marines be on a vandetta for?
your last one is worded kind of funky so I don't get it.

Let me see...
1. Have you read the Ultramarines book? They did just that and that was the Ultramarines with the rod up thier bum who never breaks the rules. They are not "sent off to merc", they are banished to accomplish a suicide task and are not welcome back. What about the ones who say "screw it, my talents are wasted on this suicide task. I'm helping the imperium fighting where I can do some good." Or those who accomplish it and live and find themselves still not welcome back?
2. Even tech marines need equipment and tools and parts to work with. This is not to say they would sit down at a bargaining table and sign a contract for x ammount of dollers. They can pretty much ask what they want and get it. Replace and repair equipment, A place to "hole up" for a while and the xenos prisonors of war to execute. Not to say that there might not be some who would be of a mercenary mind and take x ammount of dollers.
3. An imperial commander might not know that the marines are banished if they have not repainted thier markings. They might also pop in at the last minute having been in the area and heard a distress call on the radio and decided it thier help was needed. Then again, most imperial commanders wouldnt care so long as they were space marines helping them. They would just be glad for the hand.
4. A small group of marines on a vendetta is easy to do. A group of banished marines whose mission is to kill a particuler ork warlord. The mission itself would be the vendetta. Another might be that the group were banished because they were framed by , oh, say an eldar farseer, and now this group hates all eldar. There are ways.

If you dont like the idea of marines being on the "merc list", fine, dont use them as such and encourage your gaming group to not use them. That doesnt mean that they cant be possible or that they cant be fit into the fluff easily. That just means you dont agree with it. Heck, there are a LOT of things in the fluff that have been introduced or removed I dont agree with, but I accept it.

Edit: Dont forget the commissar to whisper into the ear of the head ogre what to do.

El Presedente
22-10-2007, 13:52
I think its a big enough universe for anything to be possible.

The theme of my army is that they've been stuck in a suisidal conflict for so long that they're prepared to pay for help from anywhere, Orks, Kroot, Eldar, AdMech and Marines, of course this has led to the Inquisition ending up on their tail, and while still loyal to the imperium the army has become a bit of a maverick in its own right and is like a magnet for any renegades and scum of the universe.

Also what I was saying is that Marines are tought from the very beginning that Chaos will lead their souls to eternal damnation, but many are seduced by its benifits anyway (ie, money, power, lust etc) but surely there would be some who gave in to temptation but were strong enough not to be seduced by chaos, and instead go their own way to achive their selfish goals (I.e fight for money and power, not for the chaos gods)

Also, for Marines on a vendetta, go read bloodquest.