View Full Version : Fantasy Apocalypse Anyone?

21-10-2007, 18:05
So how about it? A WHFB version of Apocalypse? Imagine being able to field an ENTIRE Elector State for the Empire, or an entire Skaven Clan...

21-10-2007, 18:08
I think this is on of those ideas that sounds great in principle, but is ultimately unworkable.

Yes it would be great to field an entire state or clan, but thats a hell of a lot of standard models.

To my mind, the main draw of Apolocalypse is lots of big tanks. SOmething that is harder to achieve with WFB.

the thought is cool though...

21-10-2007, 18:15
Do you think it is do-able though? Take out the army structures etc, it opens up the abilities to have lots of Daemons for Chaos etc, Steam Tanks blah di blah di blah....

Gorbad Ironclaw
21-10-2007, 18:23
Warhammer scales much better to large game sizes than 40k does, exactly because it have an inbuild structure to handle it. In fact, the more points you play, the more 'open' the game gets. Add to that that there are really very few big things like super heavies and titans to add to Warhammer and a straight copy of Apocalypse doesn't really seem like the best idea.

What I could see working was introduce some proper scenario rules, lots of scenarios, a version of the scenario generator tried before/a copy of the 40k one, things like that. That would enhance and enrichen WFB to no ends. Currently that's the main weakness. No inbuild support for scenarios at all, and you can really tell the difference when you compare a game of 40k to a WFB game.

21-10-2007, 18:23
Well, fantasy rules work for larger games for the most part, but the amount of time and models to field makes games more of a chore than fun. Unless you have multiple people playing, it get too unwieldy.

Also, there aren't many units / creatures that can compare to the point costs that super-heavy tanks and tank units cost in 40k.

Did I mention that it would take too many models? :)

21-10-2007, 18:25
I like Gorbads idea. The scenarios, enriching the battles etc. All good. Big battles can be fun. Any other suggestions?

21-10-2007, 22:19
Avian has already started a project called "Battle of the End of Times" in the alternative rules section of Warseer..
Basically it's Apocalypse for fantasy, and how we could make it work. Why don't you drop by and discuss? There have been some really nice ideas so far.

21-10-2007, 22:51
Back in White Dwarf two or three years ago (actually, probably closer to about five), Gav Thorpe wrote a nice set of rules for a scenario generator for WFB.

It was brilliant and really breathed a breath of fresh air into Warhammer which had started to become stale and repetitive for my group of friends and I. I remember the weekend that that White Dwarf was released, me and two friends played about 15 games back to back, such was our enthusiasm for this new set of house rules.

I'd like GW to focus more on something like that rather than a fully blown Fantasy Apocalypse. 2,000 point pitched battles get incredibly boring after a while and I don't think blowing it up to a 10,000 point pitched battle is the solution.

22-10-2007, 00:37
A 1:1 copy of Apocalypse wouldn't work obviously as the games are too different.

However i really like the idea of stratagems and counter stratagems and i could see this for Fantasy (obviously adapted for Fantasy play).

However there are not that many models that GW could additionally produce or take from Forgeworld.. we already have the largest monsters in standard games like Dragons and Greater Demons so i can't imagine them introducing other stuff that would fit on the battlefield.

As has been already said Fantasy scales up way better than 40K and i've been to tournaments where the biggest game was 4000 points (all had to be painted) and it worked well enough.

22-10-2007, 00:42


Allready covered... twice :p

Gorbad Ironclaw
22-10-2007, 10:53
Back in White Dwarf two or three years ago (actually, probably closer to about five), Gav Thorpe wrote a nice set of rules for a scenario generator for WFB.

Another reason why it was a huge disapointment that there were nothing at all but pitched battle in the rulebook.

Most tournaments add in scenarios, but it really needs to be a basic part of the game like it is for 40k, where the different missions and gaming levels turning on and off special rules really change the game and makes you consider a lot of options to deal with it.

Crazy Harborc
23-10-2007, 01:37
I've played some 5/6 thousand points per side games in the past (including in 7th). A standard size table, (4 by 8) is almost too small for 10/12 thousand points of minies on it. Oh, the minies will fit....BUT the space needed for tactical movement is not very good.

IMHO.....To keep a game moving in REALLY large points games....more than one player per side is a must....

Having said that 8-12 thousand points per side.....with expanded Character points, special and rare too.:evilgrin:

23-10-2007, 03:56
So what your saying is, in order to have WHFB Appocalypse, instead of me having 3 blocks of Empire state troops, ill need at least 6 blocks of state troops. Ok so far this I can do... boring but I can do. Ill also need an Empire fantasy titan... ops they dont make that. Also an Empire Super Heavy type thing... nope they dont have that either. Guess they could make a formation of super charicters all riding dragons, or instead of 20 calvery we can have 40 because it is Appocalypse!

What im getting at is this. Sure in WHFB, large battles with the normal rules works and works well to a point. But there is a huge lack of FW 'cool stuff' for WHFB. No really big things, other than FW deamons, that scare the hell out of you. Maybe someday this will change, at least I hope so.

Gorbad Ironclaw
23-10-2007, 08:55
But what 'big' stuff would you put into the game? We already have stuff like greater demons, dragons, giants etc. What's left out there to be included in place of Titans and Super-heavy tanks?

23-10-2007, 09:19
sigh, what is wrong with warmaster!!!, hello you can do all of that with that games system, or is it just not warhammer??? same for epic in 40k

23-10-2007, 17:02
Other game. New rules to learn but, mainly (at least for me):
1) a new army to buy (more $$$ to dish out)
2) not a single warmaster player in a 100km range

I think that's sums up what is wrong with playing warmaster for me.

23-10-2007, 17:06
ok clip the models of the warmaster bases, adjust the ranges and play warhammer with them

23-10-2007, 17:30
There's not that much to add, though I could think of a few selections for each army:
1) Jaguar Saurus Sqadron: 5+ Saurus (with Temple Guard Champion Stats) with 9" movement each.
2) T-rexaur ('nuff said)

Tomb Kings:
1) Sphinx (Like a massive undead Stegadon)
2) Scarab Swarm (A 6" wide section of swarms with cumpulsory movement, each base having 2D6 poison attacks)

Vampire Counts:
1) Endless tide (Zombie units that gain D6 models each turn)
2) Vampire Welps (Wolf Form Thralls with no equipment... but in units)
3) Zombie Dragons, Undead Rhinox etc.

2) Artillery batteries
3) Flagellant Memorium (100 x 100mm base, makes Flagellents even harder, sacrificing D6 a turn)


It can be done, but you have to be inventive.

23-10-2007, 18:34
1) Mobile brewery
2) Castle busters (Engineers/Demolition teams).
3) War balloon

High Elf
1) Dragon squadrons

1) Giant tunnelling rat monster type thing.
2) Giant rat. No I mean Rat Giant. :D

1) Give me back my War Wagons
2) We had 'robo horse' now give us 'Robo dragon'. :D
3) A War Alter the size of that one in the art work.

1) Pick a dinosaur. Strap something to its back (like that conversion for the Lustria campaign). Can't go wrong.

Vampire counts.
1) Skeletal dragon.

23-10-2007, 18:49
Perhaps for WHFB we could get fortreses and siege engines for each race?
as well as some big high point units.

Ender Shadowkin
23-10-2007, 18:56
Fantasy for Apocoplypse needs its own cool name . . . like Armagedon, or Ragnarok . . .

Warhammer works pretty welll up to even 6,000, so target the mega game to 10,000 pts!

Another Key element of Apocalypsie is no limits on Allies or core requirnments. You can just field what ever models you have, Say you've got empire and just started some WE, well put them out!. This would be great for fantasy too, you would just need to sort out the mixed general issue, either with a field marshall ala generals comependum, or rule saying every race you bring has to have one hero, that acts like your general. Not sure about waxing hte Core requrinments, but if your trying to max out points, migh as well field as much of the pricey ones as you can. . .

With lots of units, you will need to get them all in combat. I think Tactical Skills, Like Flank, and Scout Master (scout any unit) could help get the models into play. And also a new rule . . ."Into the Breach!" Bring back the voluntarty flee so that you can bring your 2nd and 3rd line units into the fray. and prenvent a jammed up battle line . . .It will work just like a normal flee, except you wont cause panic in units that you flee through.

How about a new spell for each lore too (14+ casting values), something that could use those giant blast templates and clear out big blockes of units.

Here is my List of Special Units

Dark Elves:
Avatar of Khaine
Giant Cauldren (size of

High Elves
Let them field an Obelisk that cast bound spells and generates power dice . ..

Wood Elves
Murderous woods, let them move and entire Wood terrain piece as a unit, if it moves over you, you get hits as per tree siniing.

Golem - monstrosity

Some Derigable Da-vinci impsired Machination.
Pre-cursor to Baneblade.

Grudge-Bearers, A lord on top of an Oathstone, caried by 8 "Oath Bearers" with some associated nasty rules

Beasts of Chaos
Corupted treeman (and bloated! dont forget giant and bloated!)

Prayer group ;) - large group of praying knights, acts like powerful bound spells

Warp Fire Tesla Coil (ok that may be the best idea yet) .. .
Massive Doom Wheel

Mammoth of Course
Some more chaos dwarf demon bound machine thingies. . .

mini-maw . . .

Tomb King,
Souped up casket of souls

Spell casting formation of 3 Slann . .. now that could move mountains.