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mistformsquirrel
21-10-2007, 23:16
<,< Alrighty, I've dipped my foot in to Mordheim already, I've got my 40k and fantasy going... and several ideas for some of the bigger (scale wise) specialist games...

But Necromunda is looking like something I can do on a budget for fun on the side... this appeals to me greatly! That, and the imagery of Necromunda is really calling to that part of me that adored Shadowrun (the pen and paper game) - so needless to say, its clicking for me.

But as with anyone just jumping in... I'm not sure what gang to be starting!

The Pit Fighters actually kinda looked cool... but I'm not sure if they're very well balanced... indeed, the "Shears" fighter weapon seems... a bit much. Instant death and all that >.<

Plus I'm not 100% sure I should go with yet another close combat force - since both my 40k, Fantasy, and Mordheim things are all 'get in your face' types of forces.

The Gangs I think I'm most liking thus-far are (in no particular order), Escher, Pit Fighters, and Van Saar... But I don't know for sure.

I'm also wondering - I looked at the rules for Wyrds, do people use them often? Can you start with a Wyrd? The rules for hiring them were a bit vague, but they look kinda fun to have.

floyd pinkerton
21-10-2007, 23:35
Hi man, welcome to the underhive:D

I strongly suggest starting with a normal gang I.E. one plucked straight from the rulebook, not using any of the downloadable PDFs like the pit fighters or wyrds. It just lets you get used to the game.

Besides, even without all the cool extras (Dogs, Wyrds, Ogryns etc.) Necromunda is one of GWs best games:)

Major_Gilbear
22-10-2007, 00:07
Well, funnily enough, the main issue with the Pitslaves as a gang is not that their mechanical CC weapons are unbalanced (almost the opposite actually), but that they are a very small gang with almost no ranged firepower. Shears are not a guaranteed way get gangers killed, and you still have to effectively win the combat before you can try your luck anyway. You will also find that Shears make the Slave a fire-magnet too.

Escher are a bit like Eldar Aspect Warriors in the way they perform, and models aside, are quite a favourite.

Van Saar are possibly the cheesiest of the House gangs, as the sheer quanitiy of Techno Skills makes the gang fearsome to face after four or five games. Many Techno Skills either improve Ammo rolls (great for the more unreliable weapons), allow access to restricted equipment (so lots of Special weapons are a common sight - ouch) and include the popular Inventor which allows you to get a free piece of Trading Table equipment on the roll of a six after each game. Van Saar gangs also get access to Shooting skills with complement Techno skills very well indeed. They are a good gang, but watch the min-maxing, as it is easy to do.

I would agree with floyd pinkerton that the House gangs are probably the most balanced overall though, and would suggest that you start with one of those. The Pitslave and Wyrd Hired Guns though are fine to use, as they are not really all that much stranger than what's already in the core book. Well, the Pitslave isn't anyway.
Wyrds are just like any other Hired Gun, and can be hired and fired as usual, and you can start with one if you want to (they are a bit expensive though, be warned). The only complicated elements of Wyrds are the rules for the Psionics - rolling them up, knowing what they do, testing for Perils of the Warp, etc. But even then, you'll be fine after a game or two.

Finally, if you want to use up spare 40k/WHFB stuff, Orlocks, Goliaths and Pitslaves are all easy to make out of Catachans or Marauders, and Redemptionists are easy to make out of Flagellants. I would strongly suggest bitz-ordering a few weapon sprues though, it will save you ever so much trouble!

mistformsquirrel
22-10-2007, 02:49
Ok, so I've done some more looking... I *think* I like Escher the best. Van Saar looks extremely cool as well; but the Agility skills have tempted me! (Only just though...)

What I'm wondering now - is it possible to make a "balanced" Escher force? Ie: One that gets in enough shooting to be a threat at range, as opposed to just wanting to chop the enemy to bits? I know only the Heavies and Leader get Shooting Skills, but the normal Gangers are still BS3... >.<;

Catferret
22-10-2007, 03:17
Due to Necromunda's random advancement, you may end up with Gangers with multiple BS increases. Having a mixture of CC and ranged fighters will allow you to swap equipment around depending on who suits it the best. Escher may be very good at CC but they shouldn't ignore shooting. Just because you don't have shooting skills doesn't mean you are bad at shooting.

mistformsquirrel
22-10-2007, 17:34
Good points Catferret >.<;

Taking that into consideration, this is my first go -

Leader w/ Chainsword and Plasma Pistol – 170c

Heavy w/ Heavy Stubber – 180c

Heavy w/ Plasma Gun – 90c

Ganger w/ Laspistol + Sword - 75c

Ganger w/ Laspistol + Sword - 75c

Ganger w/ Shotgun w/ Manstopper Rounds - 75c

Ganger w/ Lasgun - 75c

Ganger w/ Sword + Stub Gun – 70c

Juve w/ Autopistol + Flail - 50c

Juve w/ Stub Gun + Sword - 45c

Juve w/ Lasgun - 50c

Juve w/ Knife + Laspistol – 45c

Total: 1000c

Las weapons seemed like a good buy all around - easy to pass the ammo roll, inexpensive, hit fairly hard >.> But I also wanted a mix of weaponry so I wouldn't feel like I was arming a 40k squad or something. I want to really make the individual nature of the characters stand out I guess.

But this is my first try <,< so I've probably screwed something up <'x'>; Thoughts? Ideas? >.<; (thanks all for helping me get started btw - I'm always amazed at how friendly people are around here <,< especially Specialist Games stuff; makes jumping in *much* easier and a lot more fun!)

Daredhnu
22-10-2007, 19:14
juves can't have basic weaponry other wise it looks good

(i know some people prefer autopistols over laspistols but both are good)

Weagmacht
22-10-2007, 19:14
Your list seems at the very least quite well-rounded, but one little problem - no basic weapons for juves, they've not got the chops for them yet. So replace the lasgun with an appropriate pistol, and that will fix the official rules conflict.

You might also consider a backup weapon for your heavies?

It would cost you a juve to supply your heavies with backup, but what happens if your heavy stubber hits its limit on the first turn? you've got a very expensive liability and a hole in your firing line. Grab an autogun or a pistol of some sort for them.

Also, your ganger with a stub gun and no dumdums? A pretty poor choice IMO.

The laspistol juve would yield backup pistols for each heavy and a better pistol for your ganger.

Otherwise it looks like it would be an interesting list. You can always buy and swap weapons after you play a few games. :)

Major_Gilbear
22-10-2007, 20:35
As other have said, Juves cannot have basic weapons until they gain enough experience to become full Gangers.

My suggestions are these:

1> Drop a Laspistol or two in favour of a few Autopistols. They are cooler, but also have the benefit of increasing your chances to hit. Don't be afraid of 4+ ammo rolls, as it is better to hit and take an ammo test than never do either.

2> On the subject of ammo rolls and pistols, consider Bolt pistols. These have similar advantages to Autopistols, and have are S4. In CC, S4 is very handy. Also, if you are charging and mixing it up in CC, ammo tests are going to be rarer anyway, so worry less about that 6+. A Bolt pistol or two in your gang will help them out.

3> Easy up on the swords. They are tremendously effective, and waaaay undercosted. Most players regard them as utter cheese, so maybe try and keep the total number to around 1 for every 4 gang members. This self-limitation makes the game more fun for everyone!;)

4> Four Juves but only five Gangers means that in your early games, if any of your Gangers are hurt, you will not be working all your territories. Having slightly more gangers than territory means you can afford a couple of post-game injuries. Any "spare" gangers can help your leader look for stuff when rolling for rare items, so they are still worth having even without considering the casualties!

5> If you are worried about supporting fire, maybe upgrade a CC Ganger to have an Autogun or even a Bolter instead. Juves are very nearly as good as a Ganger in CC anyway, and will win often if they are geared for it. Gangers are better at supporting fire though because they have BS3 and can use basic weapons.

6> As one point more or less of WS isn't really a major deciding factor in CC in Necro, why not consider upgrading your Leader to a support role? The BS4 is going to be much more effective than the WS4, and you have lots of CC in your gang anyway. If you passed the PG to the Leader, you could equip the second Heavy as a "Backup" should your first heavy get injured - a Lasgun or such would suffice for them.

As I said, these are just a few suggestions, and don't mean you have to re-jig everything (apart from that Juve!). I would have a closer look at the future of your gang though, specifically the ratio of CC to support models and the rate of advances you can be likely to expect.

If you want a few more pointers, just shout. Likewise if you want more specific suggestions :P.

Oh, and welcome to the Underhive BTW!

mistformsquirrel
22-10-2007, 21:08
Ok, here's a "Version 2" <@_@> taking some of the suggestions into consideration!

Escher can't get Bolt Pistols btw <;.;>

Oh, and a couple things:

1) <'x'> I actually chose Swords because... I love swords <>.<>; It has very little to do with their power; and I'd be happy to pay an extra 5 each if necessary <'x'> As it is though, I dropped it down a little.

2) I prefer my leaders be up in close combat <,< Its just a preference of mine; I've always seen the "Hero" character as being up in the thick of things. That, and what's cooler than hitting people with a chainsaw sword? <,<;

Other than that though, I took most of the suggestions <@_@>; I couldn't figure out a way to increase my number of gangers without dropping my Juves too low though >.< (I want a fair number of models, so I don't get shot off the board in the first round <'x'>;

Here's the version 2:

Leader w/ Chainsword and Plasma Pistol 170c

Heavy w/ Heavy Stubber, Autopistol 195c

Heavy w/ Plasma Gun, Laspistol 105c

Ganger w/ Laspistol + Sword - 75c

Ganger w/ Shotgun w/ Hot-Shot Rounds - 75c

Ganger w/ Shotgun w/ Manstopper Rounds - 75c

Ganger w/ Lasgun - 75c

Ganger w/ Sword + Laspistol 75c

Juve w/ Autopistol + Flail - 50c

Juve w/ Autopistol + Sword - 50c

Juve w/ Club + Autopistol 50c

Total: 995c


>.> Better? Worse?

Major_Gilbear
23-10-2007, 00:03
Escher can't get Bolt Pistols btw <;.;>Honestly, the HWLs are the the single worst thing Fanatic/SG did to the Necro Rules. Ignore them totally; everybody I know does, and most ppl online seem to as well.
Besides, following on in the same style as your sig, you should know that God kills a kitten every time somebody uses the HWLs. Really, it's true, I'm not making it up. :angel:


1) <'x'> I actually chose Swords because... I love swords <>.<>; It has very little to do with their power; and I'd be happy to pay an extra 5 each if necessary <'x'> As it is though, I dropped it down a little.Fair play, if you like a particular weapon/image, then go for it. Necro is big on style afterall.
Just remember that the only way to make swords "fair" is to break them with a silly cost - something like +25cr, not +5 - and that's taking it too far. Problem is though that Parry is just so strong, that putting it on a low-end weapon makes it cheesy.


2) I prefer my leaders be up in close combat <,< Its just a preference of mine; I've always seen the "Hero" character as being up in the thick of things. That, and what's cooler than hitting people with a chainsaw sword? <,<;I agree, although I usually make sure my Leaders have a decent weapon to shoot with no matter what. A PP is good, but its smaller range and recharge rules might let you down at the wrong moments. Many folk take two to get around this, but I'd save that for further down the line as it is expensive. Bolt pistol is my preferred Leader pistol TBH as it is a good all-round weapon. Chainswords are definitely prestige weapons though!


I couldn't figure out a way to increase my number of gangers without dropping my Juves too low though >.< (I want a fair number of models, so I don't get shot off the board in the first round <'x'>;I might have a few suggestions to help you with that... read on:

[1] (170) Leader - Plasma Pistol, Chainsword
[2] (145) Heavy - Plasma Gun, Autopistol
[3] (115) Heavy - Flamer, Autopistol
[4] (70) Ganger - Autogun
[5] (70) Ganger - Autogun
[6] (75) Ganger - Shotgun + Manstoppers
[7] (75) Ganger - Shotgun + Manstoppers
[8] (75) Ganger - Sword, Laspistol
[9] (70) Ganger - Sword, Stubgun
[10] (40) Juve - Autopistol
[11] (40) Juve - Autopistol
[12] (40) Juve - Autopistol
[13] (15) Ratskin Scout

TOTAL = 1000 Credits

I think the costs in your V2 list were slightly off TBH. Anyway, I'll explain the lineup below:

1> Maximised the Income Bracket at 12 members (Hired Guns don't count).

2> Maximised the gang size (13) by needing to have four members down for a Bottle Check (Hired Guns do count!)

3> Maximised the number of Gangers as fas as possible whilst keeping enough Juves; at least you have more gangers than territory now.

4> Dropped the Heavy Stubber. Many players find that running a Heavy Weapon just isn't necessary. They are cool, but if you have a CC-orientated gang, than leaving the shooters at the back on their own is even less of a good idea if they have very expensive guns. Besides, big gangs and lots of CC-equipped fightrers need the extra credits not taking the HW frees up.

5> Added a Flamer. If you're unlucky and one of your Heavies becomes less than great at shooting, you can swap their weapons around (Flamers don't rely on BS but autohit instead). Flamers are great in gangs that will have lots of members closing with the foe as it can support them and discourage counter-charges.

6> Both Heavies have a backup weapon that suits the range at which they are likely to be operating. In the Flamer's case, a pistol is vital.

7> Shotguns and Flamer make a great fire team, as do the autoguns and PG. The Leader and CC Gangers should each be assisted by a Juve; the pairs can be joined to make bigger assault teams if you need them.

8> For a CC gang to do well, a few things are important; opportunity, position and cover. As scenarios influence these things, having some control over the scenario played makes the Ratskin very handy. Plus, he's a decent fighter, a decent shot and pretty cheap to boot. If that weren't enough, he gives you chance of adding territory to your gang if you win.

9> I kept the swords down to three, and tried to stick fairly close to your V2 lineup where I could. I also stuck to the HWLs to show that it can be done even if it is a bit limiting (I never liked kittens anyway...).

10> Juves lost their CC weapons, but still get two attacks in CC (as their free knife still counts for an extra attack). Also, a Pistol trumps a CC weapon if you only get a choice of one weapon; this is because some scenarios pretty much require your models to have guns (and you don't always get to choose who turns up!).

11> The Juves have Autopistols to maximise the shooting wherever possible whilst still giving them a reason ammo roll. Their poor BS almost demands this when using Juves to shoot with.

12> On the Gangers, the Stubgun and Laspistol are mostly for flavour, but the Stubgun also saves 5cr.

13> Shotguns both have Manstoppers as this is pretty much the reason to take shotguns at all! S4 and a reliable chance of a hit are more useful than the re-roll to wound.

14> Autoguns are cheap (those 5cr all add up you know!) and are a decent weapon.

15> If you *really* like Pitslaves, you can swap out the Ratskin for one and use the extra 5cr to bump the Stubgun to a better weapon.

16> I would also suggest that you read this site (http://www.terrainosaur.com/necromunda/necromunda.html) as it has some very good advice on running a CC gang. I disagree with some of his statements (Missile Launchers... um, yeah, okay... :rolleyes:), but the general points he makes are excellent.

I hope that is of help to you! If you still have questions or need more, just post here again :D

mistformsquirrel
23-10-2007, 18:37
Hehehe, that gang you linked to was too funny <,< "Codsaw" lol

Do you think it might be a good idea to swap the Ratskin Scout for a Scum instead? I kinda like the whole "Dual Pistol" gunfighter thing they have going.

I think I may just use that gang you posted though, other than what I mentioned above, I like the looks of it overall!

Hmm... now my only question is: Modeling!

Are the Eschers all metal like they appear? >.< It strikes me that giving them the right weapons maaaaaay be kinda hard if they are. That and I'm not 100% keen on their hairstyles (some hassle-free heads with sculpted hair would fix that though).

Basically I'm asking - do you think I should go ahead and get the Escher official models? Or should I just look in another range, as they're hard to convert?

Major_Gilbear
23-10-2007, 19:19
Hehehe, that gang you linked to was too funny <,< "Codsaw" lolHehe, I liked "Mister Gorgeous", "Captain Fantasic" and "Dark Shaft" - best names ever! :D
His advice is pretty good though, especially as far as CC and setup goes.


Do you think it might be a good idea to swap the Ratskin Scout for a Scum instead? I kinda like the whole "Dual Pistol" gunfighter thing they have going.I honestly find that spending money on Hired Guns is expensive and somewhat pointless in the longrun unless they offer you something that you find *really* useful. Even so, they can be very characterful, and so I sometimes hire one for kicks - I try and stick to 15cr though, unless I'm exceedingly wealthy or only plan on having them for a few games.
If you like the look of the Scummers, then by all means grab one!


I think I may just use that gang you posted though, other than what I mentioned above, I like the looks of it overall! Always glad to be of service! :cool:


Are the Eschers all metal like they appear? >.< It strikes me that giving them the right weapons maaaaaay be kinda hard if they are. That and I'm not 100% keen on their hairstyles (some hassle-free heads with sculpted hair would fix that though).

Basically I'm asking - do you think I should go ahead and get the Escher official models? Or should I just look in another range, as they're hard to convert?Okay, a few items here it seems.

1> Yes, they are all metal.

2> You should need very few weapon swaps, as most of the models in the list I suggested have an existing sculpt that you can use as-is (isn't Jes Goodwin awesome?!).

3> As most of them hold their weapons away from themselves, most weapon swaps are really easy. Their slender frame and small size means that any joins will be delicate though, so be prepared to pin them all - you should do this with all such weapon swaps anyway, but it is important in a game like Necro where the figures are frequently lain on their sides or placed on high-level scenery (and accidents always happen, sadly).

4> For economy, I would suggest you get the official models. If you don't mind a spending a little more or want a different sort of look to your gang, then other manufacturers stock some great models. I could suggest a few if you like, but try browsing through Arcane Miniatures (http://www.arcaneminiatures.co.uk/index.asp) first, as they have a pretty comprehensive catalogue of manufacturers. Heresy might be worth a quick look too (good service, plus Andy is always very helpful and friendly).

5> You could always proxy the gang, using "counts as". Eldar Pirates, a secret assassin's cult, Brats, etc. This would let you use quite different models altogether.

6> If you want to use the official models and don't like the hairdos, you can always either clip it off and resculpt it (hair is dead easy), or add a hat (like a beret). If you follow the link in my sig, Catferret has posted pix of his gang with which he's done exactly that; sculpted new hairdos and berets... They look awesome! ;)
///I know he's posted some pix in various places around Warseer too, if you prefer to trawl here instead///

mistformsquirrel
23-10-2007, 19:57
I found a set I rather liked - the Urban War militia has several female models I can punk-up a bit; and they have generally good weapon loadouts - will still need to buy some additional weapon packs and make a couple conversions <@_@> But it should be easy!

I think story-wise I'm going to come up with a sort of break-away gang. Not really affiliated with a House at all; but rather some variety of independent mercenary group - it'll give me an excuse to mix up the minis a bit more than just females. Lots of work in that respect yet <@_@> Hopefully in the next few weeks I'll be able to send an order in and start working <^,^> (I've been wanting to get another small project going; since I worked on my regular Army level stuff more diligently when I was working on my Mordheim band - I suspect my Necromunda Gang will be similar!)

razormasticator
23-10-2007, 21:46
I roll with Eschers, and the Heavy Stubber is brutal for a heavy.

Catferret
23-10-2007, 22:51
Um, I've been pimped by the Major... lol

Here (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Underhive/index.php?showtopic=20) is a link to some of my gang pics.

mistformsquirrel
23-10-2007, 23:39
Wow, sweet stuff there Catferret! <o_O> I definitely like what you did with the Eschers... I may give the actual models a go after all... my greenstuffing isn't as good as your's... but its not bad either; so maybe it'll work... dig the stock on the lasgun girl too!

Major_Gilbear
23-10-2007, 23:57
If you don't mind piecing your gang together from different ranges, I always thought some of the stuff from Wyrd Minaitures would work well (like this (http://www.wyrd-games.net/shop/product.php?productid=16183&cat=0&page=1&featured) andthis (http://www.wyrd-games.net/shop/product.php?productid=16182&cat=255&page=1)), and some of the stuff from Dark Age is also sculpted by similar talent and would fit together nicely (like this (http://www.dark-age.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=161&osCsid=1b69323a7dd0e880c25c78ddef4ff4c8), this (http://www.dark-age.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=121) - makes a good Flamer Heavy! - or this (http://www.dark-age.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=125)).

Clearly, a decent paint scheme will tie them all together properly, but they have the more action-orientated poses that I think fit Escher so well, as well as having weapons that are close to what you'd want (so less conversion is *necessary*).

mistformsquirrel
24-10-2007, 00:00
Oh damn... <o.@> Those are nice...

And no, I definitely don't mind piecing things together - especially in a crew as motley as a gang! (They darn well *better* look different from each other; this isn't the Guard ya know!)

Gah <,< I'm so glad I don't have money this minute... I'll have to take time and really map out what I want.

Maybe I'll use those Militia models I mentioned before as Juves (since they'll tend to fluxuate up and down in numbers throughout a campaign - so having more than I technically need isn't a bad idea); and then for my Gangers, Heavies, Leader and Scum go with more special models...

Major_Gilbear
24-10-2007, 00:10
Heh, yeah, but at around $6.00 each, that's pretty much the GW price. Plus, the Heavies at the same cost are actually *cheaper*!

My main issue with the old Void models and with some of the "civilian" stuff that gets put out by many companies is that the detail on the modeld is so bland... Not bad in itself, but it really shows them up against more detailed models.
I'd advocate using the GW Escher Juves, and making up the rest of the gang from other manufacturer's models.

Shout if you want some more links, I know of a few more ;).

ash_wednesday
15-11-2007, 16:31
Actually, a good gang to use for people who are just starting the game would be Orlocks. They are a good balanced gang, have a good seclection of skills to choose from. The best part is that you can very easliy get models and or convert models to look like Orlocks.

Just buy the Catachan Jungle fights plastic models. For the most part the coversion is stright foward. Just use the heads that have bandas on them and use the chests that hve the vest and paint them like Orlocks. As for getting weapons, most of the weapons can be easly baught at a GW or any hobby store. The modles come with knives, grenades, lasguns (which could easly converted into autoguns), laspistols and swords.

Boltguns, chainswords, and most heavy weapons can be baught normaly though other 40k blisters packs. You can also order the Necromunda basic weapon spruce packs with the GW mailorders and since you are using plastic models, it would be easy to add the weapons to your models.

The Catachan plastic parts could also be used to make Goliath gangers. Heck you could make Pit Slaves using the jungle fighter models with some space marine parts as well.

Angelwing
16-11-2007, 15:52
I give you my advice: play the gang with the models you like best.