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Crux
06-09-2005, 21:58
Well, there is one for 40k, so I figured there should be one here too.

What's the worst cheating you have ever seen? I for myself haven't encountered many, but the worst one was probably the "because carnosaurs are blood frenzied, they add +D6 to their first charge", and then he refused to show me his army book because I didn't believe him.

nurgle_boy
06-09-2005, 22:11
one of theb iggest bits of cheating in fantasy ive encountered, was from me misreading an army book.

i wondered why for 90pts you had an etherial creature that hit every unit within 18" doing wounds equil to the amount you beath their leadership by on 2D6+2....

then i reread it, and was verry imbarressed.

another bit of cheating has come to light, just today.

i play a friend of mine a lot lately, and we both have armies that use fast cav, and he misunderstood the rule about fast cave 360 LOS. so weve both been playing, unaware that we cant actually charge when not facing a unit. it seems like something obvious, and i wasnt too sure about it anyway, but i checked, and i think ill spring it on him during the next game he uses some fast cav...

he also was told by another gamer, that stupidity is only failed when you roll a 1 on a D6, and i went along with him (i wasnt sure, and he plays fantasy more than me) and i read today, that it is leadershiop test, as i thoigh...

still, the rule was really to my advantage, with my LD4 trolls...


i guess these are more like misunderstanding than cheating... but i feel like a cheat when i realise ive been doing it all wrong...

Luke
06-09-2005, 22:19
cheating in WHFB is decidedly harder than in 40k for some reason. but there are occasions. like edging a unit round in a wheel a little bit further than allowed in order to exploit a weakness. and time travel always pisses me off. thoughnot technically cheating it is something that never ceases to perplex me.

why didn't you declare a charge when i said 'ANY charges to declare!?!?!?!?'


******. yeah, they werent looking at the big picture and realised they would be shafted if they didnt charge. Time travel = bad, dont do it kids.

skavenguy13
06-09-2005, 22:31
I know someoner who plays chaos. H read the army book a couple of times. He LOVES to play daemonettes (doesn't even have the appropriate minis!) because he makes them uber-powerful. He thinks that a daemonic ward save means a 1+ save (which at least can be reduced by higher St) and he doesn't know what is instability, he just thinks they're unbreakable.

Yet they die evertime :wtf:

Hywel
06-09-2005, 22:33
Well... time travel is down to you as an opponent to permit, its not like they can do it without you giving them the nod.
Personally I have no trouble with it, its a game, I'm not trying to catch them out cause they forgot something - if they're in a position to charge me, its only cause I've let them/was expecting it at the end of my last turn... so what's the problem?

Worst cheating... moving from the front of their bases to the back (ie: measure 8" from the front of the model's base and putting the back of the base on that 8" mark)

Also those dubious artillery guesses where arms etc are placed briefly on the table.. you can never be sure, but you can get suspicious.

Luke
06-09-2005, 22:37
the problem is it doesnt make for a fun coherant game.

me? i never ask to time travel. i accept that i made a mistake, adds to the flavour of the game. mind, i am a bit anal when it comes to the turn sequence and rarely get caught out. i suppose its why i cant tolerate dudes who just cant be bothered to learn the game.

Huangar
06-09-2005, 22:48
One of the local Dark Elf players was so bad for cheating that eventually I learned the Dark Elf book to a higher degree than he did so that I could shout him down when he tried to cheat. Among other things, he said that Black Guard were Immune to Panic, Shades had Leadership 9, and that in one particularly annoying case, that every one of his mages had a Soulstone - since he kept Miscasting, he kept claiming Soulstones. I thought they were like Dispel Scrolls at the time.

Since I beat the tar out of his army a few months ago he hasn't showed up again. Or at least not for more than a few minutes.

Then there was the High Elf player that everyone calls ****** Boy. He cheated so much that I don't think I can say he was actually playing Warhammer, instead that he was just trying to say "I win all the time!" after rolling a few dice. He hasn't been around for quite some time and we're better off for that.

Arnizipal
06-09-2005, 23:10
It's been a while since I've been cheated by someone.

The worst cheating I've encountered was when I had just started Warhammer Fantasy (I was perhaps two weeks into the game). A buddy of mine (who had also just started playing) was fighting a battle with me: his Dwarfs vs my greenskins. Of course there wasn't much on the table. I think we would just about have reached 500 poins if we added our two forces together.
Anyway, at a certain point during the battle I manage to kill his general. He promptly claimed his entire army has gone mad with grief and is now frenzied! :eek:
He started ********ting me with stories about Dwarfen honour and grudges and such.

I know it sounds redicilous now, but I believed him, not knowing all that much about the game just yet. And he sounded quite convincing. Needless to say I lost.

The guy is still proud he got away with that... :rolleyes:

Häxjägare
07-09-2005, 01:49
the problem is it doesnt make for a fun coherant game.

me? i never ask to time travel. i accept that i made a mistake, adds to the flavour of the game. mind, i am a bit anal when it comes to the turn sequence and rarely get caught out. i suppose its why i cant tolerate dudes who just cant be bothered to learn the game.

Hehe, I'm like you. If you miss out you miss out.

Worst cheating during a tournament was a O&C player that keept cheating with his miscast table only reading half the rules(the good parts) and then skipping the bad.

MarcoPollo
07-09-2005, 02:23
The worst cheating I find is when people intentionally clip with chariots. Although this is permitted in the rules I find that really makes spit nails. I play with chariots in a beastmen army and won't "clip" unless I find that my opponent is deliberately cheating by whatever means he finds necessary.

Shuya
07-09-2005, 02:43
"Clip" What that

MarcoPollo
07-09-2005, 02:50
A clip is when, in the case of a chariot, the chariot hits the front of a unit and positons itself so that only one or two models can attack back. The chariot can maximise its frontage while minimizing the opponents own frontage against it.

Basically, the front ends of a line are hit with just enough contact to meet the minimum standards for maximising frontage.

Rioghan Murchadha
07-09-2005, 04:15
The main problem most people have with the chariot thing is that they don't read the rule properly, and have invented the term 'maximize frontage'. When you charge a unit, you are required to maximize the attacks of the charging unit. This is generally done, in the case of rank and file infantry, by 'maximizing frontage'. But in the case of a chariot, whether it touches 5 models, or just 1, it has maximized the number of attacks it gets.

GW really needs to either tighten its wording if such things are unintentional, or clarify that they intended to allow it.

R

Anvilbrow
07-09-2005, 04:51
Would my opponent "accidentally" drinking my beer be considered cheating? It did put me off my game (not that I lay claim to any large degree of "game").

Seriously, for me, in over twenty years of WFB, the one common thread is measuring and wheeling. This is where I see the most bending of the rules, albeit not all intentional I'm sure.

PelsBoble
07-09-2005, 08:29
another bit of cheating has come to light, just today.

i play a friend of mine a lot lately, and we both have armies that use fast cav, and he misunderstood the rule about fast cave 360 LOS. so weve both been playing, unaware that we cant actually charge when not facing a unit. it seems like something obvious, and i wasnt too sure about it anyway, but i checked, and i think ill spring it on him during the next game he uses some fast cav...



Maybe i got his totally wrong but doesnt the 360 LOS for fast cav only count when they are shooting? Seems a bit odd that they should be able to charge with 360 LOS imo. So could anyone point this rule out in the BRB please :)

Scythe
07-09-2005, 09:22
Meh, I've not encountered any serious attempts to cheat in fantasy (probably because I rarely play against strangers). The most notable ones were someone who spend 105 pts on magical items for his chaos lord (just a mistake), or an opponent taking panic tests for all units when the general died (shortly after 6th edition release; we were both unaware that that rule was scrapped).

Griefbringer
07-09-2005, 09:26
Maybe i got his totally wrong but doesnt the 360 LOS for fast cav only count when they are shooting?

That's the way it works - for charging they get the same 90 degrees as anyone else!

Luke
07-09-2005, 09:29
see! someone else said about measuring the distance of wheeling!


up our way, we just measure the distance along a straight ruler, although technically this distance would be further than actually measuring along a curve.


but we dont count this as cheating as we have no other way to do it.


the cheating occurs when i take my eyes off the board to look up some rule and my opponent slides the unit a bit further round when he thinks im not looking.

ironduke
07-09-2005, 09:35
[QUOTE=Rioghan Murchadha]The main problem most people have with the chariot thing is that they don't read the rule properly, and have invented the term 'maximize frontage'. When you charge a unit, you are required to maximize the attacks of the charging unit. This is generally done, in the case of rank and file infantry, by 'maximizing frontage'. But in the case of a chariot, whether it touches 5 models, or just 1, it has maximized the number of attacks it gets. [QUOTE]

We have a house rule that prevents this, the charging unit is supposed to maximise the amount of enemy models in contact e.g. Chariot must be in the center with the most amount of models. It stops beardy people exploiting the rules.

Scythe
07-09-2005, 09:59
Which is, imho, as it should be. Hopefully this will be cleared up in the 7th edition book next year.

demonheadmonster
07-09-2005, 11:03
I'm kind of torn when it comes to chariots. Obviously in game terms, this kind of clipping makes them a lot harder, but i feel it's appropriate in a way, as that's what i imagine them doing in real life: strafing units rather than crashing head first into them.
The problem seems to be impact hits.
without them, and with the crew getting an attack in a similar way to Screamers, they'd be less devastating, although i've not really thought that through.

Arnizipal
07-09-2005, 11:04
Meh, I've not encountered any serious attempts to cheat in fantasy (probably because I rarely play against stranglers).
Yeah, stay away from them. I heard they strangle people! :eek:

;) :p

Scythe
07-09-2005, 11:11
Erhm, ahem....

*goes of to edit previous post*

:D

Lord Anathir
07-09-2005, 15:38
wtf...clipping is the greatest...you try playing with high elf chariots and charge a chaos knight unit. If high elf chariots had T5 and 4+ AS, maybe i would, but clipping is a tactic just like anyting else. It also gives you somewhat of an advantage when charging beastmen (larger bases) with elf spearmen. Clipping actually gives some armies an advantage, take that away and you make elves a whole lot weaker then they already are.

taer
07-09-2005, 16:07
wtf...clipping is the greatest...you try playing with high elf chariots and charge a chaos knight unit. If high elf chariots had T5 and 4+ AS, maybe i would, but clipping is a tactic just like anyting else. It also gives you somewhat of an advantage when charging beastmen (larger bases) with elf spearmen. Clipping actually gives some armies an advantage, take that away and you make elves a whole lot weaker then they already are.

...Wha??? :wtf: You're kidding, right?

Archaon
07-09-2005, 16:14
wtf...clipping is the greatest...you try playing with high elf chariots and charge a chaos knight unit. If high elf chariots had T5 and 4+ AS, maybe i would, but clipping is a tactic just like anyting else. It also gives you somewhat of an advantage when charging beastmen (larger bases) with elf spearmen. Clipping actually gives some armies an advantage, take that away and you make elves a whole lot weaker then they already are.

Well.. how about then not charging Chaos Knights with chariots?

If you want to break the spirit of the rules go ahead but don't go around claiming you can't win if you follow rules because other HE players just manage fine.

IkuTurso
07-09-2005, 16:18
Worst cheating... moving from the front of their bases to the back (ie: measure 8" from the front of the model's base and putting the back of the base on that 8" mark)

lol my friend used to do this all the time.

Quetzl
07-09-2005, 16:46
Yeah same here, and he still tries to now and again and gets really pissed that he can't do it...

The worst cheating I've had so far is when I was playing my second game of Warhammer against someone who had been playing a lot longer, and he took the opportunity into his hands.

For example his Black Orcs being S6 on the charge with 3 attacks, basically taking into account one for charging like 40k and unfortunately I believed him. Also that Cold Blooded meant I added all three dice together for my leadership, but I managed to **** him off about that because I told him wrong. But even though I lost the amount of cheating I halted was ridiculous, and I'm still finding things that he cheated on like using a champion as a hero for his army so he could have another unit of Black Orcs.

But continue to write it down.

The Judge
07-09-2005, 17:00
Thinking that Immune to Panic makes you unbreakable, because apparently Break tests and Panic are the same.

Scanno
07-09-2005, 17:23
Measuring the move distance for the most forward skirmisher, then moving all his buddies up to form a line with him.
Don't know about the clipping thing, something just feels right about slamming a boar chariot into the centre of the front rank of an infantry unit. Feels like I deserve to roll a 6 on the impact hits then. *Smash!*

lazarus
07-09-2005, 18:46
The worst I have ever come against was at a UKGT 3 years or so ago first game- I played a dwarf player who had the master rune of moving runes - every time I thought I had him with Vauls unmaking - bingo - no rune there!

I didn't realise he'd done me one until afterwards when I saw his list on a different forum.

He even bragged he'd beaten all his opponants as they were poor players.........well maybe we were if being cheated makes you a poor player!!

EvC
07-09-2005, 19:15
Man I hope you called him on his BS!

Worst case of cheating I got was at a club league match where my opponent kept getting the rules wrong for his Ogres. Now, taking three rare choices by mistake when I've asked him for a 2000 point match on the spur of the moment and he didn't have enough troops on him, I can take, and I have no problem with. But when he claims that ogres get to persue 3D6, and it lets two of his most expensive units escape after fleeing, I do have a problem. I didn't pull him up on that one because the last week I'd questioned someone else on a rule for an ogre-sized creature and it had turned out they did indeed have 3D6 flee.

Quite a bit of other dubious stuff there, but I don't know if it was cheating. Saying that turning a Tyrant on the spot doesn't count as moving so he could fire his brace of pistols and kill my carefully-positioned Necromancer, is that legal or not? And do Ogre Bulls really get a 3+ save?

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
07-09-2005, 19:49
Im pretty sure that ogres pursue 3d6 (they have a 6 inch move i think)

Bulls dont have a 3+ save...ironguts dont even have that. And i also think that characters get 360 degree line of sight...but i could be wrong there, too.

cardboard_armour
07-09-2005, 20:09
Ogres do not flee/pursue 3d6 inches. you have to have OVER M6 to get this. So M7. Like Yetis.
Ogre Bulls also do not have a 3+ armour save. If they have light armour then they have a 6+ save and if they have an Ironfist this can get bumped up to 4+ BUT ONLY IN COMBAT and only if they forgoe the extra attack it gives them.

I'm not 100% but I think an Ogre character is allowed to pivot for free in his movement phase and shoot his gun. The Ogre Hunter can do this with his Harpoon. So says the imminent FAQ.

Tormentor of Slaanesh
07-09-2005, 20:24
ever had the whole, i handily didn't see wat u rolled, do it again ploy?

Griefbringer
07-09-2005, 21:37
He even bragged he'd beaten all his opponants as they were poor players

Actually, what is there to brag about having beaten poor players? Now, beating up good players might be something worth being proud of.

Lion El Jason
07-09-2005, 23:18
Actually, what is there to brag about having beaten poor players? Now, beating up good players might be something worth being proud of.


Is that beating or beating up?

Your point is valid either way but just so we know...

Hywel
07-09-2005, 23:26
I didn't pull him up on that one because the last week I'd questioned someone else on a rule for an ogre-sized creature and it had turned out they did indeed have 3D6 flee.


Minotaurs have a specific rule that gives them a 3D6" pursuit and they sacrifice the ability to overrun to get it. Obviously, this does not apply to ogres.

..and if anyone was going to defend clipping, I'd have expected it to be a high elf general ;)
yes, I'm aware there are many lovely high elf players, but these coincidences to crop up a lot...

Ripthorn
07-09-2005, 23:35
I cheated pretty bad once by accident. I had a flank shot on a unit of Black Knights and the Necromancer (general) stood next to them with my cannon. When saying which line I was gonna shoot down, I pointed it out with the extended tape measure in my hand... I'd didn't even realise I'd done it until my opponent went :eek: and just sorta pointed at the tape measure. :o I felt so guilty, I specifically underguessed and missed the game winning shot... :(

aakurtz
08-09-2005, 00:10
These are not the worst, but the ones that bothered me the most/I can remember off the top of my head.

OnG player who went very very magic heavy and always "forgot" that OnG have their own miscast table and always rolled on the one in the main rule book.

Another is a OK player who likes to use his lead beltchers as moble hell blasters. Yup, he would move and shoot every turn... each time rolling to wound for the total on the artillery dice completely negating the BS roll (which is BS!!(sorry i had to say it)). He thought the things were god sends and i didnt like them too much either till i read the rules and realized he was playing them totally wrong.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
08-09-2005, 11:20
Oh my theres plenty.

For example.......

5th Edition. Units of Orcs charge my Chaos Warriors, with a Lvl4 Slaaneshi Wizard. I prepare to give him a good kicking. He claims Banner of Bork, and instantly kills my Wizard. I lose combat. Cheating little scrote didn't have it. Claims tough luck on me, I should be more vigilant. Punch in the head results.

Again, 5th Edition. Unit of Skaven, with the banner that doubled your Combat Res for Ranks. Predictably, my Lvl 4 Slaaneshi Wizard, even with his Manticore, get beaten in combat. He runs me down. Something he cannot do with that banner.

When you start knobbling Mages and that, isn't it surprising how you NEVER get the one with the Dispel Scroll until he's the only one left? Annoys the hell out of me!

I broke a Bretonnian Bus with a charge from a Black Dragon. They run off, I roll higher, wiping them out. However, our line of pursuit and that means I'd impact into another unit of Knights, this time Questing Knights, head on (eep!). My opponent claims that as I hit this unit 6" into my 15" pursuit, I only count as having pursued 6", meaning his 9" flee gets him out of dodge. I say this is patently rubbish. He keeps on about. I point out that the flee range etc.. is as much about your unit reaction time as how far you actually flee. By rolling higher, not only do I outrun you, but I'm all over you, scattering your unit to the four winds. Still he claims I am wrong. So I give it to him. Funnily enough, I moosh the Questin Knights, send them packing, and straight into his freshly rallied Knights....who promptly bump off my General. Tosser. I haven't played him since, even though I won the game!

The Amazing Switching Mages. Why is it, that as well as seemingly being able to teleport Scrolls when dying, Mages can also swap relative positions in the material plane in order to be in the best position when they first cast spells? Seems a little lucky to me that the short ranged mage is ALWAYS right next to my hard stuff, even when I make a point of moving them off down the opposite flank you might have expected....

Zilverug
08-09-2005, 14:56
But in the case of a chariot, whether it touches 5 models, or just 1, it has maximized the number of attacks it gets.

No, I don't think so: both animals drawing the cart need to touch to be able to attack. Since these animals are generally on a 25mm base, the chariot has to touch at least 2 models on a 25mm (or smaller) base:

-MMmmmmm
AA
CC
CC

However, we always play using the house rule that both attacking and defending units have to maximize the number of models in contact, so this chariot has to fight 4 enemy models. We'll even center both units against each other.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
08-09-2005, 15:27
If you clip my unit, I will clip your testicles.

I have always played it that once you have charged, you align your unit to get the largest number of models involved in the combat on BOTH sides. Clipping is a low form of gaming, which I reckon will be fully outlawed in the next edition.

If you need clipping to win, I suggest you play another game. Like LotR. Seems about your level.

EvC
08-09-2005, 18:10
But does that mean if you charge a unit you should align it so that enemy characters are involved in the combat even if they don't have to be?

Also: cheers cardboard_armour. 5upr3m3 h4xx0rz, why did you think it was 3D6? I'm curious to know, if you were confusing a rule from a previous edition or another game or something, or were just having a brainfart or whatever?

nurgle_boy
08-09-2005, 19:44
in my games, its a case of if you can charge, the units line up, so standards are aligned, or all units are in B2b that can be, ie, for skirmisghers, so the units end up like this-

0000000
..ooooo.

the unit standards lined up, meaning more fighting. it also means you have to take care when you charge...

Lordmonkey
08-09-2005, 20:34
I hate it when players deliberately overguess ranges with cannons to hit chariots that are a good 15" or so away from the original "target". By the rules, this isn't cheating, but it IS lame.
I also hate it when people deliberately interpret the rules of something wrongly so they can gain an advantage, even though the blatantly obvious suggests screamingly otherwise. For example, some magic weapon (Dark elf I think) allows the bearer to "re-roll missed attacks". My opponent took this wording to mean re-roll rols to hit AND to wound, which is just wrong, especially for something like 35 pts.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
08-09-2005, 22:24
5upr3m3 h4xx0rz, why did you think it was 3D6? I'm curious to know, if you were confusing a rule from a previous edition or another game or something, or were just having a brainfart or whatever?


I dont know the rules all too well...i play brets and i know that my horsies go 3d6 while my men at arms go 2d6. I thought it was 6 inches not over 6...

Rioghan Murchadha
09-09-2005, 01:13
No, I don't think so: both animals drawing the cart need to touch to be able to attack. Since these animals are generally on a 25mm base, the chariot has to touch at least 2 models on a 25mm (or smaller) base:

-MMmmmmm
AA
CC
CC

Real pedantic sumbitch aren'tcha? What do you do if someone puts their chariot on a chariot base? (Some of them actually come with these) so that the whole thing is on a single base? Exactly smartass. The 1 or 5 was not actually a rules quote or even relevant to the fact that chariots can, or cannot clip. It was in fact, merely filler text.

In looking over the rules however, I notice that you are completely full of hot air, as it says nothing of the sort. All it does is restrict creatures pulling chariots to attacking things in front, where crew and characters are able to attack to all sides.

Maybe next time you could try to contribute to the discussion rather than pointless nitpicking.

R

samael
09-09-2005, 06:56
A player who will remane nameless added a mere 1000 points to his total when he offered to write down the results at the last Dutch GT.

Sadly I was not surprised.

Try to top that.

enyoss
09-09-2005, 10:12
Back in 4th edition a mate of mine used the dubious tactic of the Bad Moon Banner (Night Goblins only, unit always strikes first) with double handed weapons.

However, not content with a unit of 40 S5 striking first goblins he used to give it to his Night Goblin Battlestandard and dump him in a unit of 40 Frenzied Savage Orcs with double handed weapons. Add to the mix a Savage Orc Warboss with the Executioners Axe (8 attacks, S6, 6's to hit = autokill!) and you have one game with every last ounce of fun drained from it.

By the end the unit was inevitably surrounded by countless knights (desperately trying to survive long enough to attack back on their charge) with a couple of clubbed to death Griffons draped on the top.

After desperate research we had to concede... his rules were airtight due to sloppy wording. Now there's a lesson for those who think this edition is bad for mis-interpretations!

cheers,

enyoss

samael
09-09-2005, 10:42
That's not cheating (as you said I know) but making good use of the rules ;)

I used to run with a 100 strong NG unit with double handed weapons, ng Army standard with the Bad Moon banner (-1 to hit for missiles, allways hit first)

Standard with the banner of defiance (double rank bonus), fanatics and a champion and a Black Orc big boss with all the works to finish it of.

I was bad in these days. :evilgrin:

Avian
09-09-2005, 11:44
Worst case:

I came across a battle where two kids (vampire counts and wood elves) had teamed up against this other kid (skaven), who they claimed was nigh-unbeatable. I took a look at the kid's army, observing that it seemed to consist of four blocks of clanrats and not much else. Wondering how this could possibly be unbeatable, I asked to see his army list. Such was my conversation with him:

"Hey, you know you can't have NINE characters in a 2000 pt army, right?"
"I can't?"
"No, and all three of your assassins can't have Weeping Blades."
"Really? I didn't know that."
"And you definitely can't have FOUR Battle standard bearers and they cannot ALL have the Umbranner."
"Hmm..."

:rolleyes:

IcedCrow
09-09-2005, 11:51
The guys we play with are all older. None of us are younger than 25. Most are in their 30s and 40s. The only real "cheating" per say that goes on is Stretchy Tape Syndrome.

Griefbringer
09-09-2005, 12:21
"Hey, you know you can't have NINE characters in a 2000 pt army, right?"
"I can't?"
"No, and all three of your assassins can't have Weeping Blades."
"Really? I didn't know that."
"And you definitely can't have FOUR Battle standard bearers and they cannot ALL have the Umbranner."
"Hmm..."


Three assassins, four BSBs - what were the other two characters? Grey seers?

Avian
09-09-2005, 12:26
One warlord and the last I can't remember...

Griefbringer
09-09-2005, 13:18
Had that person at least counted the points correctly? With warlord, three assassins, four chieftains with battle standard and one more character, there are points left for little else than a couple of units of clanrats.

Eldacar
09-09-2005, 14:02
Never encountered any outright cheating, but I've seen things like the 30" Killing Blow trick come to light before. That's borderline cheating, and I really hate that sort of thing.

Avian
09-09-2005, 15:13
Had that person at least counted the points correctly? With warlord, three assassins, four chieftains with battle standard and one more character, there are points left for little else than a couple of units of clanrats.
I didn't check. Considering that his army was illegal as hell, whether or not he had added the points together correctly wasn't really interesting. Though as I said, he didn't have much else.

But I wouldn't bet on it! :cheese:

Flame
09-09-2005, 15:27
Never encountered any outright cheating, but I've seen things like the 30" Killing Blow trick come to light before. That's borderline cheating, and I really hate that sort of thing.

The what? Never heard of that one before!

Avian
09-09-2005, 15:46
It's simple:
Take a High Elf character and give him the Swordmaster Honour (which amongst other things gives the character the Killing Blow ability, but does not mention that it only applies in close combat).
Then give the character a longbow (30" range on the Killing blow!).

:cheese::cheese::cheese::cheese:

Flame
09-09-2005, 19:19
Ah, yes, that maximum of 6 possible shots a game is a real killer!

sparks
10-09-2005, 00:30
i really want to play against a skaven warp lightning cannon. are you allowed to declare charges that you know full well are out of range?(it must always flee as a reaction)

WraithKnight
10-09-2005, 01:24
No you cannot declare a charge that is obviously implausible and out of reach. It says so somewhere in the rulebook, I'm pretty sure...
But not helpful enough to find out where :)

Eldacar
10-09-2005, 02:50
Ah, yes, that maximum of 6 possible shots a game is a real killer!
It is when one of those shots could potentially take out your general. Second Sign of Amul = rerolled failed attempts to score a Killing Blow.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
10-09-2005, 04:22
Who gets that? Not the high elves...and they are the only ones with killing blow longbows

Flame
10-09-2005, 07:37
But in my opinion thats whinging about nothing. HE aren't the greatest army in the world, yet they have this one highly implausible combo, which very rarely works, and everyone moans about it? If you are stupid enough to leave your general close enough to this model (and remember he must be on foot) then its your own fault.

On topic, the most blatent act of cheating I saw was at WW, in a game between a staffer and a fairly new to the game kid. The staffer claimed at some point or another-

All RBT shots are S6, mages have ld 10, and apparently there was an annual list which upgraded all DE warriors to T4. Methinks I'll be getting that book then!

Flame
10-09-2005, 07:37
Who gets that? Not the high elves...and they are the only ones with killing blow longbows


WE waywatchers get it as well now.

sparks
10-09-2005, 12:19
damn you wraithknight. made some kid scared enough that i was going to do it anyway that he plonked it firmly behind a building, didn't end up doing much damage. also ruins my idea of having a massive unit of zombies charging people from the other side of the board for the fear effect to kick in. i guess i just like the image of ppl running away from a zombie horde a lot earlier than the game really allows for,lol

Scythe
10-09-2005, 12:55
It is when one of those shots could potentially take out your general. Second Sign of Amul = rerolled failed attempts to score a Killing Blow.

Still, as long as your characters are in or close to friendly units, the worst thing the arrow can do is kill a common trooper.

LordPomposity
10-09-2005, 13:29
Does taking the Swordmaster honor prevent you from taking magic weapons?

Otherwise, reaver bow... :evilgrin:

Scythe
10-09-2005, 13:35
I thought it did, but I'm ot sure at the moment. Would be too nasty...;)

samw
10-09-2005, 22:41
My friend and I made a lot of mistakes when first learning the game, but they weren't deliberate cheating. One funny one (I collected chaos at the time) was my chaos exalted champ with the rending blade. We didn't realise D3 wounds didn't carry over. Seriously this guy went through my friends goblins like a bolt-thrower through butter!

Worst piece was during a game at a regional tournament. Playing a 1500 HE seer list (3lv2's, BOTH magic rings, extra PD, banner of sorcery) I finally managed to get my knights across from his swordmasters ready to charge them. He declared a charge although it seemed to me blatantly out of range I didn't mind. He then brought my attention to another charge across the table, and while I was pre-occupied did the quickest tape measure maneuvere I've ever seen with the Swordmasters, declared "in" and shoved them into position. I think I was too stunned to say anything. They proceeded to break my unit and over-run into the flank of another. That charge won him the game. Scum.

DisturbeD_
12-09-2005, 15:28
when i started playing my friend cheated soo much to make himslef look so much better than me, according to him any army that he collected did not need to hit, just wound, also sauras have WS5 S5 T5 I5 with out any upgrades, also apparently saldmanders each roll a artillary dice and that how many artilary dice they roll, which auto hit and count as magical :|.

Denogginizer
14-09-2005, 21:53
There was this kid playing Lizardman who took a magic item that at the begining of the game he nominates a character and the holder of the item doubles all unsaved wounds against that character. He told people that it doubled ALL wounds done to the character from anyone, not just the holder. Then he was trying to pass off his croxigores as WS5 and T5 when they're WS3 T4. After telling their stats, he'd always flip his Armybuilder page face down.

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
14-09-2005, 22:12
well, when we were first learning hte game, my freind got confused by sonething our local rogue trader told him. he thought that if he gave his bestigors chosen, then he could give them magic items, this effectively meant nearly all his points were spent in theis one unit, so they all had 2+ saves, ward saves, and all kinds of crazy magic items! when i asked to see hos army book he told me to "shut up u dont know my army".

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
14-09-2005, 22:14
also apparently saldmanders each roll a artillary dice and that how many artilary dice they roll, which auto hit and count as magical :|. umm, perhaps i misunderstand u, but salamanders do each roll a artillery dice, and do auto hit, except there attacks are flaming instead of magical.

WLBjork
14-09-2005, 23:59
I think he meant that his opponent rolled an artillery dice per salamander, then totalled the results and used that many artillery dice to determine the hits.

E.g. 3 Salamnders, score 2, 6, 8 on artillery dice, opponent would then roll 16 artillery dice for hits!

nurgle_boy
15-09-2005, 09:04
ooooh... thats sick, and not right!
i mean, a max of 30 artillery dice!

and what would happen if he rolled a misfire for determining the number of shots? would he take an artillery dice worth of D3 edible skink misfires?
no?
didnt think so :rolleyes:

Griefbringer
15-09-2005, 10:03
ooooh... thats sick, and not right!
i mean, a max of 30 artillery dice!


I agree, it is quite wacky - but it also gives potential for a huge number of misfire results!

Scythe
15-09-2005, 10:05
Lol, you could get 300 hits from a single salamander pack... Now that's a weapon of mass destruction...:p

Griefbringer
15-09-2005, 14:50
Lol, you could get 300 hits from a single salamander pack...

Imagine the amount of time needed to do all the to wound -rolls!

Especially as few people tend to have more than 100 or so of d6.

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
15-09-2005, 23:19
OMG, that would be crazy! you probably wouldnt even need all the to wound rolls cuz by the time you rolled for probably about a 100 the unit would probably be gone!

User Name
15-09-2005, 23:57
well I made an illegal list with my dwarfs once when I wassa noob and was trying to make an uber undead killing army.

corkill
16-09-2005, 10:26
Yeah Army list cheating is pretty rife with some people. I remember one dude I played had about 750 points of extra items in a game. He still lost.

Latro
16-09-2005, 13:53
While technically not cheating, it certainly was taking advantage of some very obscure magic-item combos to the extreme. It was in a friendly battle though, so we all had a good laugh about it.

I fielded the following unit (previous edition by the way):

A large unit of skeletons which included characters carrying the following items:

- Ruby Chalice: ... -1 to hit in close combat once the unit has suffered casualties

- The Cursed Book: ... all living within 6 inch suffer -1 to hit

Behind the unit was a Tomb King carrying the following:

- The Tomb King's Crown: ... all undead within 12 inch may use his WS

- Blessed Sword: ... bearer has WS 10

:evilgrin:

So there I had this large unit of skeletons marching towards the enemy, seemingly oblivious to all those threatening ambushes and flank-attacks.

... and then my opponent discovered it were WS 10 skeletons with a -2 to hit in combat.

Scythe
16-09-2005, 14:33
Yeah Army list cheating is pretty rife with some people. I remember one dude I played had about 750 points of extra items in a game. He still lost.

That's quite sad indeed... :rolleyes:


So there I had this large unit of skeletons marching towards the enemy, seemingly oblivious to all those threatening ambushes and flank-attacks.

... and then my opponent discovered it were WS 10 skeletons with a -2 to hit in combat.

Ahh, old 5th edition. The time were dragons had 9 S8 attacks, slann were nuclear bombs and characters did D6 hits per normal hit with the hydra blade... Memories flow back.

I remember a notorious endless summon combo. Necromancer lords could recast spells automatically, and there was an item that let you cast spells without using power cards, but the item would stop working if you rolled below the power level of the spell cast. Since necromantic spells were chosen instead of drawn and summon skeletons was a lvl 1 spell, you could count on quite some skeletons. :D

And there was that item which also made you cast spells without power cards but drained D6 characteristic points each time you used it. Throw on a lvl 1 necromancer, get summon undead horde (or curse of years, or another high level spell), and recast until you have degrated your M, WS, BS, S, T, I and Ld all to 1 or 0.

Skinnydookie
16-09-2005, 17:23
The worst cheating I have come across was back in 4th edition Warhammer when my friends and i were first starting.

A starting Undead player was told that Undead could neither march nor CHARGE and had to walk into combat by his Dwarf opponent! Suffice to say he was always shot to pieces and actually charged by the Dwarfs!!!!

As we only owned about one battle magic set between us to start with an unscrupulous High Elf player claimed that the spell Tempest meant that any units within 24" that failed a LD test ran away, whilst from memory I think the real rule was that a failed test meant you couldn't move.

sneb
19-09-2005, 00:13
once I had a woodelf aponate who claimed his "tree smack" (what ever the tree man s10 D6W is called) did 1 wound to D6 models me not reading the woodelf book and not feeling like arguing went along with it to the dismay of my Grave Gaurd:(

sparky
19-09-2005, 18:17
The guy who gave himself an extra thousand victory points when I wasn't looking. At a Grand Tournament.

static grass
20-09-2005, 17:53
I once saw a guy roll the dice and then knock them over again because the result was sooooooooo bad.

static grass
20-09-2005, 18:00
The worst cheating I have come across was back in 4th edition Warhammer when my friends and i were first starting.

A starting Undead player was told that Undead could neither march nor CHARGE and had to walk into combat by his Dwarf opponent! Suffice to say he was always shot to pieces and actually charged by the Dwarfs!!!!

As we only owned about one battle magic set between us to start with an unscrupulous High Elf player claimed that the spell Tempest meant that any units within 24" that failed a LD test ran away, whilst from memory I think the real rule was that a failed test meant you couldn't move.

Hey was this game played in liverpool docks by any chance? I may have been that dwarf player :angel:

combatchimp
21-09-2005, 10:49
worst bit of cheating?
we had a game at my local club on monday, my friend and i were using a woodelf force of 3000points against a nurgle army of 3000points,according to the opponent, every model with mark of nurgle is immune to psychology, has 1 extra wound, causes fear,has the demonic gift "cloud of flies", we let it slide, killed most of them by turn 3 then his unit of 16 plaugue bearers got into combat, he unleashed "stream of corruption" he did this exactly as in the daemonic gifts section, not the plaugue bearers special version,

something is wrong methinks
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

RaikNaSeem
23-09-2005, 20:02
The first time I played against Bretonia, my oponent told me that the Lady's Ward Save was 4+.....

Skinnydookie
23-09-2005, 23:24
Hey was this game played in liverpool docks by any chance? I may have been that dwarf player :angel:

No dont worry- this was in Kent! Maybe its all you Dwarf players....... :D

lorelorn
24-09-2005, 01:57
wtf...clipping is the greatest...you try playing with high elf chariots and charge a chaos knight unit. If high elf chariots had T5 and 4+ AS, maybe i would, but clipping is a tactic just like anyting else. It also gives you somewhat of an advantage when charging beastmen (larger bases) with elf spearmen. Clipping actually gives some armies an advantage, take that away and you make elves a whole lot weaker then they already are.

That's some pretty good cheating you're doing there. It's impossible to clip when charging skirmishers, as you stop when you contact the first one, and then they form fighting ranks around that model.

lorelorn
24-09-2005, 01:58
The first time I played against Bretonia, my oponent told me that the Lady's Ward Save was 4+.....

A firend of mine played a similar game against Bretonnians.

lorelorn
24-09-2005, 02:05
Worst examples of cheating (all from 6th edition)

1. casting heavens spells into combat (forked lighting etc.)
2. using Second Sign re-rolls to prevent miscasts and achieve Irresistible Force.

3. Using loaded artillery dice in a stone thrower/ doom diver greenskin army
4. not declaring which units you are taking leadership tests for when rolling the dice for more than one unit.



From 5th.

1. A lizardman player once put an additional Slann Mage Priest on the table in a 3000 point game.
2. a player using a halberd and armour of meteoric iron
3. a player who always dealt the magic cards and always had Escape when his Vampire Lord died. He didn't have the card in the tournament final where the GM shuffled and dealt the cards from his own deck. He lost.

Huangar
26-09-2005, 03:36
A recent thing that's come up is that many players will deliberately position their charging units so that the maximum number of their models are fighting, frequently including a combat character, while conveniently excluding mine and everyone else's fighting characters so that they can pound on crunchies while not having to worry about powerful fighting characters. This is one of the more annoying forms of clipping and pretty much everyone is shameless about it - the Elf players in particular, who point at fighting characters and say that their Lords or Heroes won't be able to stand up to the opposition.

I'm working on not doing this - the last time I got to play was a week or two ago against a Dwarf army and I didn't do any of this. But I entirely expect other players to "tactically avoid" the other guy's fighting characters when charging in. In my case, I like to wait until I have a good enough setup where even if the other character does a lot of damage I'll still probably win combat, if I don't kill said character first.

zak
26-09-2005, 16:58
The worst cheating I've seen was at a Gaming night playing against Lizardmen. He said that his whole army had a single spawning which made them all immune to psychology. I subsequently lost badly as even his skinks refused to run from my giant!

zephyro
26-09-2005, 17:15
Well, this is even almost totally possible, as in white dwarf there was an article to make all of your lizzie armies totally 1 mark (even skinks!)

Except the kroxigors and terradons and such offcourse, but yes, if he didn't do it on those creatures, it was totally legal.

Zephyro

Unforgiven
26-09-2005, 19:03
i don't know anyone who really badly cheats but i know someone who rolls really carefully so it'll land on high numbers. sometimes it seems to work!

Scythe
27-09-2005, 06:58
There are some ways to roll a dice and have it only land on one of 4 sides instead one of 6. Extremely nasty if you want to avoid a 1. Still, it's just bad cheating.

Archaon
27-09-2005, 07:22
Not proven cheating but close to it

I recently played in a tournament with my Dark Elves and am a Chaos Warrior player myself (mostly Khorne but undivided also from time to time).

I came up against the list from hell.. Tzeentch Chaos Warriors with a total of 16 power dice at 2150 points.

Almost all characters were mounted on discs and me never having played Tzeentch or Chaos for almost a year forgot about the demonic ward saves. I came into contact with two heroes on discs and concentrated many attacks on the Disc itself only to be repelled by their 4+ ward save.

I always thought that is too hard but never called him out on that since i don't like to imply he cheats by asking for his armybook or list.

After the game i learned that every demon has a 5+ ward save at best.. i was mildly pissed again after i was royally pissed playing against this list (one of the most unenjoyable games ever).
Since he didn't have a list at the table god knows where he had "small" adjustments on his own.. :mad:

After the tournament i also heard that he sometimes "misused" some spells, that is not correctly applying them (casting into close combat when not allowed etc.).
I hope i never play him again but if i have to i'll double check everything he has

Scythe
27-09-2005, 08:36
No army list at hand at a tournament? And he was allowed to attend as normal?

NakedFisherman
27-09-2005, 13:41
Guy at my local store...

I beat down his BSB with a Saurus Scar Veteran and he says 'Oh, I have a Rune of Luck'. He needs a 6 and rolls it. Ugh. Later in the game that same BSB had tha banner that makes the unit Stubborn.

Another time he was playing against another person and he had a Goblin Hewer. He rolled one die and it came up a 2. Then he said 'Oops, I forgot that Malakai gets 3 shots with his handgun'. So he rolled two more dice. Then he finally rolled another for the Goblin Hewer's shot.

Funniest thing someone ever said was when my opponent was rolling for a Break test he needed an 8 or something to hold, so he rolled one die and it came up a 1. So of course he can't break even if the other is a 6. A guy comes by and says 'rolling one die at a time is cheesy'. Haha.

Archaon
27-09-2005, 13:46
No army list at hand at a tournament? And he was allowed to attend as normal?

We all submitted an army list prior to the tournament for check up purposes but i didn't see a sheet of paper while we were playing.

I play Warhammer for over 10 years now but i would be lost without a written army summary so i always have a copy when playing.

Unforgiven
27-09-2005, 17:45
'rolling one die at a time is cheesy'. Haha.

Yup, I know a guy who does that too. It really ticks me off but it's great watching his face when he rolls a 6 on one die and needs a 8 or something to stay. I reackon if it says 'roll 2D6' in the rules, bloody roll 2D6! (perhaps i should roll my crossbow shots one at a time to get 'em back :evilgrin: )

Scythe
28-09-2005, 07:35
We all submitted an army list prior to the tournament for check up purposes but i didn't see a sheet of paper while we were playing.

I play Warhammer for over 10 years now but i would be lost without a written army summary so i always have a copy when playing.

That speaks for itself. Especially at a tournament you should ALWAYS have an army list at hand. Most of the times it is normal to switch army lists before the battle in a tournament to quickly check the opponents army.