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neXus6
23-10-2007, 07:19
What The F...
Thats pretty much all I can say. I have never been a fan of the living rulebook system as I feel they implement changes far to quickly and without proper play testing as would be the case with a normal "new edition."

But I decided today, hey maybe I'm wrong, I'll go and actually read the current Living Rulebook for Blood Bowl and see if I'm mistaken to keep such a tight hold on my BB Handbook rules.

I have to say I'm rather shocked by some of the utterly awful things in LRB5, Dark Elves have lost throwers :wtf:, Chaos Dwarf Rerolls up by 20k :wtf:, Ogres with Snotlings :wtf:, it just goes on and on really.

Anyone agree with me that the Living Rulebook system is inferior to good old new edition every 5-6 years? Or am I just an old timer disgusted by new things? :p

f2k
23-10-2007, 07:36
In my oppinion, LRB4 was an improvement on the printed rules. However, LRB5 is rather hit'n'miss.

Ogres and Snotlings makes no sense what so ever...

neXus6
23-10-2007, 10:11
Considering I have a snotling team that one really did stick out rather badly to me. :p
Snotlings can only take Greenskin and Troll star players, in fact is specifically says even creatures that play with Goblins (Ogres for example :rolleyes: ) would never lower themselves to playing with snotlings. :p

TheLionReturns
23-10-2007, 12:13
Personally I would have to disagree. I think that the living rulebook system allows more community involvement for a start. Its bonuses are sometimes difficult to see with Blood Bowl because the rules have been very good for a long while now and any changes may seem unnecessary. However, as a general approach to updating rules it seems fairly good to me, especially as it is a low priority for GW and therefore, if done traditionally may be messed up completely.

As for specific changes, I believe that throwers were replaced by runners for Dark Elves to try and make the Dark Elves more of a rushing Elf team as to yet another passing one. I for one don't mind the change. Also it seems to me that the skill choices are more restricted than in previous editions which in my view is also a welcome change.

Commenting on every change is unrealistic, but generally from playing LRB 5 it seems balanced and probably the best game system GW has ever produced. Change happens and can be difficult to adjust to at times. I remember taking a long break from blood bowl and being greeted on my return to amazons, khemri and vampire teams to name a few in addition to perhaps less complexity in the game. I've found that now I am used to the new rules I actually like blood bowl more than i used to. I appreciate the slick ruleset and balance.

neXus6
23-10-2007, 23:32
The only thing that really kinda digs in about the Dark Elf change is that it renders a model that every person with a Dark Elf team has just a lineman in a throwing pose.

To be honest allowing for more community involvement isn't necessarily a bad thing but I don't think it's all good either as it means rather odd, or down right crap, changes get implemented very quickly. It kinda just feels like they are updating rules for the sake of updating them now.
If 40k was done that way the infamous Staelth Marines would probably actually exist in the rules. :p

Warsmith Strader
24-10-2007, 14:40
the current lrb was a shock to me also, the loss of the team rating with included the spp's and so of the other changes, but to me I thought it was going to be more complicated to play under this version of the rules, I was soo wrong, its easier!

New convert to LRB5!

PhrollikK
03-11-2007, 13:20
The only thing that really kinda digs in about the Dark Elf change is that it renders a model that every person with a Dark Elf team has just a lineman in a throwing pose.

Use the thrower as a Runner positional instead. They made some changes to the darkies mostly I think due to their similarity to the high elves. DE's needed their own identity and maybe this would help. Have not played with DE in LRB5 but played them alot prior to. Made them abit more interesting imo.

It's good that they made changes to the ogre team as getting to have 12 ogres is abiut ridiculous. Also they had to remove the gobbos as what would otherwise motivate players to play a goblin team if you could play an ogre team and have gobbos there. On the other hand snotlings are pretty useless for anything so it was a big nerf done to them. Have yet to test them on the pitch though.

Lingonberry
08-11-2007, 21:31
I feel that there are some things that have changed to the worse, like snottlings and the big guy cost (I know its motivated). But overall I think that the changes were a good thing. The handicap system have been improved but are a little to slow, and the many new units are always challenge I look forward to. There have been some balancing that I like, but some are a little to different to absorb at once.

neXus6
08-11-2007, 22:39
What would otherwise motivate players to play a goblin team if you could play an ogre team and have gobbos there.

Erm...the fact I love my goblin team as it is, with 2 Trolls. :p

hippo2112
10-11-2007, 04:10
My club played a season with LRB 5 recently. The only real drawback that I saw was the new handicapping system. I much preferred some of the things from LRB 4 or version 3.

Karadek
10-11-2007, 20:22
I still prefer 3rd edition. I know it had its problems, but I really dislike the whole FAME system and apppearance fees. I'm cool with paying astronomical prices for stars; they were way too cheap in third edition. But why do I have to KEEP paying him?

Nargus
12-11-2007, 13:24
I am running a Dark Elf team under LRB5 and I am going without any runners.

Yeah the lack of passing skills hurts a little, but lets be honest, Agility 4 across the board more than makes up for it. My general tactic is to smash into an opponents drive, grab the ball and then leg it for the end zone and I am finding with the aid of a reroll or two across the match, i can fill the role of thrower and catcher with almost any member of my team.

The LRB5 is a really good set of balanced rules, in my opinion. Some of the changes are a bit wierd, but they obviously needed making..

Darkson
12-11-2007, 21:14
There are some gems in LRB5 (Team Value instead of Team Rating, change to Norse roster, CDs reroll cost increase), but there's more that's complete tosh (Inducements, dwarfs rerolls not going up, loss of traits, nerfing of former traits/mutations, fouling system).

The LRB system is a good idea imo, but to be honest, LRB5 is more like a new version than a continuation from LRB4.

the anti santa
13-11-2007, 13:01
LRB5 is vastly superior to the older systems.

The new skills and dropping of traits open up some real variety in teams rather than the cookie cutter teams we had in LRB4.

Inducements are a lot fairer than the old handicaps (though I miss the cards from deathzone but they were a bit silly) and give the lower rated team an actual chance. The use of Team Value over rating means you have to think carefully about the skills you take and doubles and stats are more expensive to the team.

Stars have been changed to reflect their value now as they were a bit too cheap in LRB4, in a 1 off game players like the count and ripper as well as a wizard would totally change the balance of the game.

I don't see why you are worried about the swapping of throwers for runners, most of the good coaches of Dark elf teams never rated throwers in the 1st place. AG4 across the board mean any player can pick up and throw the ball, they were just trying to bring in some variety between high and dark elves. I'm not a hug fan of the assassin though.

The new Norse and Rotters are great, but Amazons still need to be changed as they are a bit too good at low TR (until they face dwarfs) and weak at higher TR.

They should just rename snotlings as Gnoblars to fit in with the current fluff, I like that some teams are weaker than others, makes the game more interesting, though I think Orcs still need to be toned down a bit, either lose some positionals or make Blitzers cost 90K.