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TheMartyr451
24-10-2007, 18:47
What happens to the Warmaster's flagship after the Heresy?

I'd like to think Abaddon uses it has his own flagship. Does it even survive the Heresy? Any fluff or anything would be great, I'm really interested to know what became of it.

chris.seraphim
24-10-2007, 19:03
Well, from the fluff I remember Horus' battlebarge (if that is still the Vengeful Spirit by the time of the Siege of Terra) ends up in Imperial hands following his duel wuith the Big E, seeing as the Emperor and Sanguinius bodies, are recovered.

Mind you, by that token the Sons of Horus manage to retrieve Hiorus body as well, so maybe they storm the bridge and make off with the ship once Dorn and the Custodes had left with Sanguinius & the Emperor's bodies.

So from the information we have thus far, after the Sige of Terra it could
a) have been in Imperial hands, when it would most likely have been destroyed with extreme prejudice,
b) been recoverd by the Sons of Horus and piloted away at the head of the fleeing heretic fleet, possibly surviving to this day
OR
c) it was in such a bad state that the Sons of Horus recoverd Horus' body, and scuttled to cover their escape - a blowing warp core will prbably give any pursuers second thoughts....

Vaulkhar
24-10-2007, 19:40
My money is on it being Abaddon's preferred flagship (until he got his mitts on the Planet Killer) - the Imperial boarding party took the bodies of the Emperor and Sanguinius with them when they teleported back to Earth, so that would leave the Sons in sole possession of the Vengeful Spirit. The Imperial fleet wasn't in any state to oppose them and Earth's ground and orbital defences were out of action as well, so they'd probably have made it out of the solar system intact.

Once they get to the Eye and the internicene wars start, things get a little trickier - the Vengeful Spirit drops out of the fiction.

Tegian
24-10-2007, 21:45
I dont think there is much doubt Abbadon used the Vengeful Spirit as his getaway vehicle, I am not sure it is ever mentioned post heresy though. If it wasnt destroyed during the inter-legionery wars in the Eye Abbadon would most likely abandoned it at the same time he dumped the Sons of Horus name.

Maybe it is floating around as a Space Hulk?

He who is doom
24-10-2007, 21:53
he converted the ship as a giant source of power for the for the planet killer. he would have never just abbandon it

Nazguire
25-10-2007, 00:28
I was sure that Abaddon lead a counter-attack on Horus' death and re-captured the bridge. That means he could have been able to take the ship out of the Solar system and get to the Eye Terror.

RexTalon
25-10-2007, 01:58
Sanguinius & the Emperor's bodies.

He wasn't a "body"!:mad:
He was merely "mortally wounded".:)

He who is doom
25-10-2007, 05:07
there is only one diffrence between a body and a mortaly wounded guy and that is the devotion of the people with them.

MadDoc
25-10-2007, 06:45
there is only one diffrence between a body and a mortaly wounded guy and that is the devotion of the people with them.

Actually, the difference would be the lingering semblence of life in a mortally wounded guy and complete lack of it in a body. ;)

Kveld-Ulf
25-10-2007, 06:54
Actually, the difference would be the lingering semblence of life in a mortally wounded guy and complete lack of it in a body. ;)

I'm pretty sure I'm actually just a body, not mortally wounded, and there's a lot more than just a semblance of life in me.

Now if you were comparing corpses and mortally wounded, different story.

MadDoc
25-10-2007, 06:59
I'm pretty sure I'm actually just a body, not mortally wounded, and there's a lot more than just a semblance of life in me.

Now if you were comparing corpses and mortally wounded, different story.

Actually, you're more than just a body, but if you want to argue the point go right ahead... (be aware that MD isn't just an abbreviation of my user name though :evilgrin:)

chris.seraphim
25-10-2007, 08:43
IMNSHO, it's a body whether thwere is life in it or not. I have a body, and I'm pretty sure im alive.
So the phrase 'the emperor and sanguinius' bodies' still holds, as it infers that the bodies in question had to be carried, whether life in them remained or not, and im pretty sure that the Big E didn't hop up and stroll into the Golden Throne.

Symantics aside, there is no canon fluff either way to say whether the Vengeful Spirit survives, or if it could be Abaddon's flagship to this day. I guess we'll get more info as the HH books continue...

Tehkonrad
25-10-2007, 08:47
i think that it was hulkified in the intern legion wars and abaddon just cruised around in whatever was handy until he got the planet killer

Vaulkhar
25-10-2007, 09:14
Someone else is going to have to confirm this, since I don't have my copy of the 2nd edition Codex Chaos handy, but I vaguely remember a reference to the Sons of Horus losing their last remaining battle barge (which we can assume to be the Vengeful Spirit) during the inter-legion wars. This was just prior to their renaming as the Black Legion and the destruction of Horus' body.

ArtificerArmour
25-10-2007, 09:51
No, Abaddon took their last remaining battlebarge and raided the emperor's childrens cloning facility to wipe out the Horus clones. The Vengeful spirit is just not a particularly special ship so hasn't been mentioned in any BFG fluff (unlike the Terminus Est)

ss_cherubael
25-10-2007, 11:29
i always thought it was scuttled by the imperial fleet or the fists after the heresy as Dorn had taken the two from the bridge and abbadon had taken horus off as well when he left with his legion.

and a body is just the physical thing, dead or alive people (philosophy 101 for the win)

bertcom1
25-10-2007, 13:35
I recall something, in one of those mini-games in a WD, where the players controlled the Emperor and his forces vs Horus and his forces in the teleport action aboard Horus' battle barge.

As the game went on, fighting between the forces led to the ship losing it's orbit and beginning to burn up in the upper atmosphere, putting a time limit to the game.

So while Dorn was able to recover the Emperor and Sanguinius, and Abaddon recover Horus, neither of them would have been able to capture the ship, instead they would have had to evacuate.

So the Vengeful Spirit probably burnt up in the atmosphere.

Quentin
25-10-2007, 13:48
I recall something, in one of those mini-games in a WD, where the players controlled the Emperor and his forces vs Horus and his forces in the teleport action aboard Horus' battle barge.

As the game went on, fighting between the forces led to the ship losing it's orbit and beginning to burn up in the upper atmosphere, putting a time limit to the game.

So while Dorn was able to recover the Emperor and Sanguinius, and Abaddon recover Horus, neither of them would have been able to capture the ship, instead they would have had to evacuate.

So the Vengeful Spirit probably burnt up in the atmosphere.

That sounds so much more epic. A deadly shipboard battle between the elite Guard of the Emperor and the Arch-Traitors cabal of corrupt Marines, where the vessel itself is burning up around them. Then after the Final Duel, a frantic retreat ensues, with Loyalist and Traitor alike scrambling to the escape pods.

MrBigMr
25-10-2007, 15:53
Is there any knowledge on what type of a ship it was?

Vaulkhar
25-10-2007, 16:05
Not really, beyond 'Battle Barge and then some'. I'm pretty sure it could deploy multiple companies of Marines (particularly the 1st and 10th with the implication of more, going by the HH books)

bertcom1
25-10-2007, 16:53
A 'modern' battlebarge can carry 3 companies plus their support and deploy them in short order, so if the ship was a "battle barge and then some", it would presumably be able to deploy even more.

Possibly 10 companies plus support. A full chapter, as it was then - an administrative division of a Legion. That's still only 1000 troops plus vehicles, which isn't really all that much in terms of required volume on the ship, so it doesn't need to be much larger than any other ship.

jb85
25-10-2007, 17:46
I recall something, in one of those mini-games in a WD, where the players controlled the Emperor and his forces vs Horus and his forces in the teleport action aboard Horus' battle barge.

As the game went on, fighting between the forces led to the ship losing it's orbit and beginning to burn up in the upper atmosphere, putting a time limit to the game.

So while Dorn was able to recover the Emperor and Sanguinius, and Abaddon recover Horus, neither of them would have been able to capture the ship, instead they would have had to evacuate.

So the Vengeful Spirit probably burnt up in the atmosphere.

I believe one of the objectives/missions in the game was to take out the engine room on the ship (I seem to remember it being Fabricator General Kane being in charge of that part of the force). The time limit probably went on the game if that objective was achieved.

TheMartyr451
25-10-2007, 18:01
The Vengeful spirit is just not a particularly special ship so hasn't been mentioned in any BFG fluff (unlike the Terminus Est)

Not special?....

NOT SPECIAL?! :p

I would think so, being the Warmaster's flagship for the great crusade/heresy, and being an extremely large space vessel, bigger than most others out there. I'm just going by the description in the Horus Heresy novels though.

That epic battle someone mentioned where the Vengeful Spirit is burning up around the Emperor, Horus, and their forces would be epic indeed. But I would still like to think Abaddon takes it for his own, and uses it to terrorize the Imperium

izandral
26-10-2007, 00:34
where does the planet killer come from ?? how did abaddon get it (i assume it's bloody but apart from that)

Lt.Bradford
26-10-2007, 01:27
That sounds so much more epic. A deadly shipboard battle between the elite Guard of the Emperor and the Arch-Traitors cabal of corrupt Marines, where the vessel itself is burning up around them. Then after the Final Duel, a frantic retreat ensues, with Loyalist and Traitor alike scrambling to the escape pods.

That sounds a bit too much like the Last Star Wars Flick.


Anyway I think it was probably destroyed in the Inter Legion Wars, but that fluff's kinda sketchy for me.

Hellbore
26-10-2007, 02:03
Not really, beyond 'Battle Barge and then some'. I'm pretty sure it could deploy multiple companies of Marines (particularly the 1st and 10th with the implication of more, going by the HH books)

i believe the Vengeful Spirit could hold most of these companies (from Horus Rising):
1st; 2nd; 3rd; 4th; 5th; 7th; 10th; 13th; 18th; 19th; 25th

plus support staff, vehicle hangers, remembrancer/civilian berths, would make it a MASSIVE ship, much larger than a 'modern' Battle Barge (which IIRC, aren't battleships really, more mobile orbital assault platforms.)

Alessander
26-10-2007, 02:15
There was an old board game in WD that featured reenacting the Emperor's assault on the battle barge (it was also on the german (EDIT-Spanish) GW site for a while, recently taken down). Usually the game involves heavy fighting near the plasma reactor or by the weapon batteries, which start chain reactions that start destroying the ship sector by sector. And as mentioned above, once the engines were damaged the ship started falling out of orbit and started burning. Chances are the ship didn't survive much longer after Abaddon nabbed Horus' body (the idea of Abaddon boarding a destructing ship just to get Horus' body sounds perfect for him).

Nazguire
26-10-2007, 02:15
i believe the Vengeful Spirit could hold most of these companies (from Horus Rising):
1st; 2nd; 3rd; 4th; 5th; 7th; 10th; 13th; 18th; 19th; 25th

plus support staff, vehicle hangers, remembrancer/civilian berths, would make it a MASSIVE ship, much larger than a 'modern' Battle Barge (which IIRC, aren't battleships really, more mobile orbital assault platforms.)

Wouldn't be surprised if it held all the companies in between that too: 6th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th.

Why would you have such randomly numbered companies in the one vessel? (May be a real answer, I don't know that much about military structure).

Which means, if so, it could hold 25,000 Sons of Horus plus support personnel and everything else. That makes it a positively gigantic ship.

GreenDracoBob
26-10-2007, 02:58
It was described as dwarfing Fulgrim's capital ship in Fulgrim, so it must have been absolutely massive. Though as Alessander said, it was probably decimated during the Siege of Terra.

But if you want to talk massive ships, you need to look at the Phalanx, as everyone knows.

MrBigMr
26-10-2007, 11:23
where does the planet killer come from ?? how did abaddon get it (i assume it's bloody but apart from that)
He had it made. Like Defilers and such. Unlike the Imperium, Chaos has managed to make plenty new stuff as they're not limited by the teachings of the Admech that defines what tech is kosher and what is not.

Nazguire
26-10-2007, 12:39
The Planet Killer, along with the Defiler and every other Chaos war engine that by rights shouldn't be working but does (includes the Planet Killer) aren't technological marvels or based on long lost technology. They are things made through the physics breaking energies of the Warp. Pretty much anything they want to make, they can if they can find the daemon willing (or unwilling)

Dark Mechanicus are the most notorious for this, though Techmarine Salernia created the Defiler.

Supremearchmarshal
26-10-2007, 13:00
The map of the ship from the old WD game (click to enlarge):

29707

I'm no expert on 40k spaceships, so I'll leave it to the more knowledgeable to determine its type.

Jimbobjeff
26-10-2007, 13:13
Id like to think that the planet killer is based around the vengeful spirit but I have no fluff justification to back that up

TheMartyr451
26-10-2007, 19:45
I'm pretty sure the Vengeful Spirit is/was the largest warship the Imperium had, besides the Phalanx. I just remember it dwarfing all other ships around it in the books.

Mechanicus
26-10-2007, 20:03
Wouldn't be surprised if it held all the companies in between that too: 6th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th.

Why would you have such randomly numbered companies in the one vessel? (May be a real answer, I don't know that much about military structure).

Which means, if so, it could hold 25,000 Sons of Horus plus support personnel and everything else. That makes it a positively gigantic ship.Technically, a company of the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus has about 300 men in it - so I'd assume it's nearer the 7,200 Astartes mark in that case. That is, of course, not counting the multitude of Imperial Army troops and the crew. ;)

Supremearchmarshal
26-10-2007, 20:12
Technically, a company of the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus has about 300 men in it - so I'd assume it's nearer the 7,200 Astartes mark in that case. That is, of course, not counting the multitude of Imperial Army troops and the crew. ;)

For what's it worth in the aforementioned WD game the Imperium's boarding party had 5 companies of marines, 3 Imperial Army formations of undefined size, 2 undefined groups of Terminators, some Assassins, and four special characters (with their respective retinues I assume). The traitors outnumbered them horribly. So the ship is many times larger than a SM battle barge.

GreenDracoBob
26-10-2007, 20:45
For what's it worth in the aforementioned WD game the Imperium's boarding party had 5 companies of marines, 3 Imperial Army formations of undefined size, 2 undefined groups of Terminators, some Assassins, and four special characters (with their respective retinues I assume). The traitors outnumbered them horribly. So the ship is many times larger than a SM battle barge.

How typical of Horus to send other legions to do his dirty work. If there were so many Marines on his ship, then not many were down fighting on Terra. Too bad the Traitor Primarchs were too busy with their daddy-hate to realize they were trading one sit-on-his-throne leader for another.

jb85
26-10-2007, 21:39
How typical of Horus to send other legions to do his dirty work. If there were so many Marines on his ship, then not many were down fighting on Terra. Too bad the Traitor Primarchs were too busy with their daddy-hate to realize they were trading one sit-on-his-throne leader for another.

My reading of it would be, as the elite Traitor formation present, the Sons of Horus were being held in reserve to be fresh for the final assault on the palace. Flood Terra with numberless hordes, break down the hard points with the assault specialists, the World Eaters, the methodical and sturdy Deathguard and the siege specialists of the Iron Warriors. Then for the last push, a fresh legion could be committed to the fray.

Vaulkhar
26-10-2007, 22:56
...and grab all the glory in the process. Plus, as a bonus, when the time comes to slap the other Traitor Legions down (because they *will* get uppity once they realise Horus is after the top job and to hell with the rest of them), the Sons will be relatively fresh and at full strength.

I'm starting to think Horus was almost as much of a dick as Eldrad....

jb85
26-10-2007, 23:18
I wouldn't back any legion that was going to have to go toe to toe with the Adeptus Custodes to come out of it relatively fresh and at full strength.

cpl_hicks
26-10-2007, 23:48
well the one HH CCG card i've found for the Vengeful Spirit, while not a very good image, shows the Vengful Spirit looking like a generic imperial navy ship

Vaulkhar
27-10-2007, 02:37
totally OT...but why rules 1 and 2?

The Warmaster
27-10-2007, 04:55
I know I've read in at least one source (think it was "Visions of Death") that Abaddon took off with the Vengeful Spirit. I'm not too sure if it would still be around today (since the Sons of Horus apparently only had one battle barge left in the end), but the Planet Killer (which COULD be the end result of Warp-based modification) and Fortress of Agony (I don't remember the class of this ship, if it was specified) could be prime candidates for a renamed Vengeful Spirit.

- N.

ArtificerArmour
27-10-2007, 14:17
The map of the ship from the old WD game (click to enlarge):

29707

I'm no expert on 40k spaceships, so I'll leave it to the more knowledgeable to determine its type.

The flying egg class :p

In reference to my earlier mention that it's nothing special, I didn't mean it wasn't special, just that it's significance is really, really downplayed. So far, the biggest act of war it's commited is virus bombing a planet. It's not fired its guns in anger at another spaceborne vessel, it's not been described in any real depth except for in the sparring chambers, the remembrancers drinking hole and the dozens of auditoriums/halls/courts of lupercal. If anything, it's described as a floating mansion or town rather than as a ship of war.

All we'd like is just a class name of something :p

TheMartyr451
27-10-2007, 17:41
The flying egg class :p

In reference to my earlier mention that it's nothing special, I didn't mean it wasn't special, just that it's significance is really, really downplayed. So far, the biggest act of war it's commited is virus bombing a planet. It's not fired its guns in anger at another spaceborne vessel, it's not been described in any real depth except for in the sparring chambers, the remembrancers drinking hole and the dozens of auditoriums/halls/courts of lupercal. If anything, it's described as a floating mansion or town rather than as a ship of war.

All we'd like is just a class name of something :p

It hasn't fired its gun atleast as far as we know, there is still the time of the crusade before the events in the books. There is also the capability of launching all of its soldiers from stormbirds and thunderhawks, there must be a ton of space for all of them. If we knew exactly how many companies the Vengeful Spirit holds, that would help a lot I think.

my vote goes for Flying egg class :D

cpl_hicks
27-10-2007, 22:25
totally OT...but why rules 1 and 2?

See Rule #8 :D


It hasn't fired its gun atleast as far as we know, there is still the time of the crusade before the events in the books. There is also the capability of launching all of its soldiers from stormbirds and thunderhawks, there must be a ton of space for all of them. If we knew exactly how many companies the Vengeful Spirit holds, that would help a lot I think.

As I'm re-reading the HH novels, I remember something Petronell Vivar, saying something about the embarkation decks of the vengful spirit and how big they where, i will have to have a quick flick through False Gods

Alessander
28-10-2007, 03:36
The Warmaster board game already has some fluff that's been retconned, including Angron and Magnus being part of the chaos reinforcements during the final assault (it also has the daemon princes Kraxnar and Doombreed...)

A little more info: the Chaos player got to set up three types of trap counters all over the ship: Ambushes, Traps and Horrors. All of them work only once then are removed after being encountered by the enemy.

Ambush traps basically allow the chaos player to double the stats of any traitor units in the area to represent the advantage of the ambush.

"Traps" are basic mechanical traps that destroy a single one of the Imperial units that stumble upon them on a 4+. If Fabricator-General Kane is with the Imperial party that activates the trap, the trap is removed without effect.

"Horror" counters are areas of the ship so warped by Chaos that it can drive loyalists insane just by seeing them. *Every* unit in the party that comes across the marked area is automatically driven insane (basically removed from play) on a 5+ (Imperial Guard units, being more easily scared, go insane on a 3+). If the Emperor is with the unit that enters the horrifying area, the effect is canceled and the counter removed with no further effects.

There are also "traitor crew" units that are set up face-down like the rest of the traps (all traps, plus Horus are deployed face down until encountered by the Imperials, so the imperial player won't know whereHhorus is). These units have stats like other units, but can't move from the area they are in. This may represent crew that are hard-wired (or biologically embedded) into the part of the ship they are lcoated in.

I wish really GW (or Specialist Games) would put the board game online again. Apparently GW Spain accidentally wiped the game when they updated the site for the new chaos codex.

EDIT: Success! Thanks to the wonderful Internet Archive, you can get the spanish rules. The PDFs don't work, but you can get scans of the board counters from boardgame geek. Just do an archive.org search for "http://www.games-workshop.es/warhammer40k/campanas/horus/extras.asp", all the archive entries worked for me. The first two "pulsa aqui" links go to the 3-part pages of the rules plus a reference sheet.

You're going to have a hell of a time wringing all that through babelfish though...

Semitaire
28-10-2007, 20:32
Two things
First, what is portent?
Second, I heard tell that it is in fact Horus who, after defeating the emporer and having a change of heart, now sits on the golden throne, or some thing to that effect. I need some proof as to how this is impossible to annoy my friend

MadDoc
28-10-2007, 20:56
Two things
First, what is portent?

The predecessor of Warseer and near and dear to the hearts of many an old-timer (myself included :D).


Second, I heard tell that it is in fact Horus who, after defeating the emporer and having a change of heart, now sits on the golden throne, or some thing to that effect. I need some proof as to how this is impossible to annoy my friend

This is purely fan speculation with absolutely no foundation in the background, and in fact mountains of evidences to the contrary. If your friend tried this one on, then he/she is talking out of a certain orifice normally reserved for the expulsion of other altogether more "fragant" things. ;)

Tegian
29-10-2007, 10:40
Looking the in the Black Legion Index Astartes article it seems that Abbadon's counter attack drove any remaining Imperial forces of the Vengeful Spirit and allowed the ship to flee into the warp. Also the Black Legion fleet is said to include one ancient battle barge from their original fleet, and it seem to also have surived the raid on Fabius cloning centre. If that ship is the VS or not... who knows?

By the way ... When was Horus battle barge first named? In the sabretooth fluff or is the name older then that?

The Warmaster
29-10-2007, 10:54
By the way ... When was Horus battle barge first named? In the sabretooth fluff or is the name older then that?

I think the Sabretooth fluff was where it came from, yes.

- N.

MadDoc
29-10-2007, 20:01
I think the Sabretooth fluff was where it came from, yes.

- N.

To clarify, there is no such thing as "the Sabretooth fluff", its all GW fluff, written by their head of IP at that. SO if you insist on bringing Sabretooth into it, then at least be accurate and call it the GW fluff which first appeared alongside the Horus Heresy CCG produced for GW by Sabretooth Games.

This (people calling the background which accompanied the CCG, and also happens to feature in the Visions series (and also the new Novels), "the Sabretooth fluff" to try and make it seem as though it isn't official GW background) is a singular pet peeve of mine.

The Warmaster
29-10-2007, 22:58
To clarify, there is no such thing as "the Sabretooth fluff", its all GW fluff, written by their head of IP at that. SO if you insist on bringing Sabretooth into it, then at least be accurate and call it the GW fluff which first appeared alongside the Horus Heresy CCG produced for GW by Sabretooth Games.

This (people calling the background which accompanied the CCG, and also happens to feature in the Visions series (and also the new Novels), "the Sabretooth fluff" to try and make it seem as though it isn't official GW background) is a singular pet peeve of mine.

I never said it wasn't official background. It is, technically, the "Sabretooth fluff", as people call it, as it was introduced with a game produced by Sabretooth (although that doesn't make it unofficial by any means).

- N.

Nazguire
29-10-2007, 23:43
To clarify, there is no such thing as "the Sabretooth fluff", its all GW fluff, written by their head of IP at that. SO if you insist on bringing Sabretooth into it, then at least be accurate and call it the GW fluff which first appeared alongside the Horus Heresy CCG produced for GW by Sabretooth Games.

This (people calling the background which accompanied the CCG, and also happens to feature in the Visions series (and also the new Novels), "the Sabretooth fluff" to try and make it seem as though it isn't official GW background) is a singular pet peeve of mine.

I call it Sabretooth background. And I do so because it's easier for people to recognise then to say 'the background that came with the Sabretooth Card Game, owned by Games Workshop Pty Ltd'.

A pet peeve of mine is people callilng the background 'fluff' as if it is something that you pick out of your nasel.

The Warmaster
29-10-2007, 23:49
I call it Sabretooth background. And I do so because it's easier for people to recognise then to say 'the background that came with the Sabretooth Card Game, owned by Games Workshop Pty Ltd'.

A pet peeve of mine is people callilng the background 'fluff' as if it is something that you pick out of your nasel.

I don't even use the term "fluff", personally. I just used the term because that seems to be what the Sabretooth-introduced official background is dubbed as these days. It may have also been a shot at t3h n00bz. I don't know.

- N.

Nazguire
29-10-2007, 23:52
I don't even use the term "fluff", personally. I just used the term because that seems to be what the Sabretooth-introduced official background is dubbed as these days. It may have also been a shot at t3h n00bz. I don't know.

- N.

I wasnt being a smart **** to you, I was just being a smidge of a butthead to Mad Doc for bothering to clarify something so pedantic as calling 'Sabretooth background' 'GW background printed by Sabretooth' or whatever:p

Back on topic.

The Warmaster
29-10-2007, 23:56
I wasnt being a smart **** to you, I was just being a smidge of a butthead to Mad Doc for bothering to clarify something so pedantic as calling 'Sabretooth background' 'GW background printed by Sabretooth' or whatever:p

Back on topic.

Right-o, then.

As for the original topic, I think it might take some more background to clarify the fate of the Vengeful Spirit, seeing as how its history beyond the Heresy has never really been covered.

Wait... if memory serves me correctly, then the Vengeful Spirit was often referred to as "Horus' Battle Barge" in some background, which means it could be the same battle barge that survived the Inter-Legion wars. Maybe a battle barge was a different type of ship in those days...

- N.

MadDoc
29-10-2007, 23:59
A pet peeve of mine is people callilng the background 'fluff' as if it is something that you pick out of your nasel.

I used the term that was used in the post I was replying to (or, in other instances, that is being used in the conversation in which I'm taking part) not as a matter of preference, which brings me to another pet peeve, people arrogantly judging me based on one post, or even being a smidge of a butthead because they think they have some right to tell me what it is and isn't necessary I say. :mad:

Nazguire
30-10-2007, 00:33
Right-o, then.

As for the original topic, I think it might take some more background to clarify the fate of the Vengeful Spirit, seeing as how its history beyond the Heresy has never really been covered.

Wait... if memory serves me correctly, then the Vengeful Spirit was often referred to as "Horus' Battle Barge" in some background, which means it could be the same battle barge that survived the Inter-Legion wars. Maybe a battle barge was a different type of ship in those days...

- N.

In the new Codex it talks about their gigantic battle barge. I believe it could be the Vengeful Spirit but then again maybe not.

As for the battle barges being different ships, itd just be easier to think of all ships that the Imperium creates as being different to one another, given the isolated spread of designs and knowledge amongst the Adeptus Mechanicus. They'd have a standard design, a set of 'guidelines' (curse you Barbarossa!) but other then that, the AM do what they want.

Take Fulgrim's flagship, Pride of the Emperor, for example. Took three times as long to build by the Adeptus Mechanicus due to all the modifications and adornments they put on it.

Or the Black Templars flagship, which has been steadily built upon over ten thousand years so it is essentially a flying city.

The Vengeful Spirit I can see being similar to the above. For the Warmaster, nothing less then 'gigantic' and 'stupidly big' would be appropriate. (look at the Primarchs armour for what I mean. No practicality to having something that shiny and golden, but they have it because they're Primarchs and damnit, they'll have it if they want it.)