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AbyssRaven
26-10-2007, 03:29
Hey all. So im looking at starting WHFB. never played it, dont knwo the rules to well. So i just took a stab at a list i thought may be ok, with units i liked. I'll also be posting a 2k Chaos warband (unsure which force i will go. just wanted opinions on both lists)

Marcas the Raven – 238pts
Bretonian Lord
Warhorse
Questing Vow
Sword of the Quest
Armour of Agulf
Virtue of Purity

Jhonathen of Two-Rivers – 115pts
Paladin
Lance
Warhorse
Warbanner
Virtue of Discipline

The Damsel Kerry – 164pts
Barded warhorse
Level 2 Wizard
Chalice of Malfleur
Dispel scroll

Core

Realm knights – 216pts
8 Knights of the Realm
Full Command

Realm knights – 250pts
9 Knights of the Realm
Full Command
Banner of Chalons

Peasants – 145
20Bowmen
Full Command
Braziers

Peasants – 145
20Bowmen
Full Command
Braziers


Special Units
Knights of the Quest – 270
8 Questing Knights
Full Command
Warbanner

Rare Unit
Knights of the Grail – 422
9 Grail Knights
Full Command
Valorous Standard

Total 1950
Total: 18 Knight’s Vow, 9Grail Vow, 9 Questing Vow, 40 archers, Lv2Wizard


marcas joins the Questing knights (forming 3 ranks of 3) and Jhonathen the 8strong Realm knights.
On the damsel im usnure if shes better hideing at the back of the grail (or realm) knights, or sitting unhorsed ina wood somewhere. Im really unsure about how magic works in WHFB.
The questing knights will be hunting out enemy leaders + unit. Mainly because Marcas has WS10 and No saves allowed vs him
Grail knights will go for their Strong units. the Chalons realmknights will go for their ranged units and the other standard infantry. Bowmen will pepper what ever is in sight full of fiery arrows!

So how does it look? :)

Daleran
26-10-2007, 08:29
Well first off characters:
No reason to upgrade to level 2 on your damsel as she will never cast a spell anyway You will be able to throw a max of 3 dice at a spell, and most armies pack a minimum of 3 dispell dice. Hoping for IF never works out.

BSB can take banner of the lady, which is expensive, but very good. Combine it with the Warbanner on the standard bearer in the KotR unit he joins, and swap virtue of discipline for virtue of duty and you have MASSIVE static combat res. I run this unit and although it may seem like alot of eggs in one basket it has never done me wrong. Even if half the unit gets shot up the remaining 4 or 5 knights can easily break a unit on the charge without even causing a wound.

Your lord isn't bad, but I really dislike sword of the quest as it doesn't help his strength at all, and has a huge point cost. A better option would be birth sword, gromril helm, and virtue of audacity(I think...the one with rerolls vs higher str) could swap out gromril helm for grail shield if you run into alot of negative armor mods, but if its high enough str to cut your armor save much you are getting rerolls to hit and wound.

Core:
Knights look good...give one a warbanner in combo with the BSB, possibly swap the other for errants and give them an Errant banner

Drop the full command and braziers on the archers..its sunk points. The champion doesn't do much more than a normal archer, and a musician and standard are only good if they get into combat...which is a sunk ship anyway.

Specials:
I really really dislike questing knights. They may be better in subsequent turns of combat due to 5 str, but their save is worse, and your frontage is still only 3 models in the lance form. The idea is you want to break units on the charging turn, so whats the point of great weapons instead of lances. At least run them in 2 ranks of 5 if you must keep them so they actually have the frontage to strike in the drawn out combats you expect if you take them. Personally I would ditch them for a unit of pegasus knights. They are an indispensible ultra flexible be everywhere do anything unit. If you make a tactical mistake you can fix it pretty easily with a flying movement and 360* charge.

Rare:
I like grail knights! Valorous standard is a bit overkill though. They are immune to psyche, so the only tests you will be taking are break tests, and panic tests from shooting. Its the target they are charging that will be taking break tests, and most small shooting will bounce off them...you can take the banner of defense if you are worried about artillery.

Overall not a bad list, it would probably be effective. After playing it for awhile I think you would start to notice what is and isn't working. Also I would consider dropping one unit of archers, splitting the other into 2x10, and picking up 1 or 2 units of mounted yeomen as points allow. Fast cavalry is great for the rules, and they are cheap units that block LOS to the rest of your cav. Just make sure you stuff forests in front of hills when you place terrain so he can't see over the mounted peasant cannonfodder :D

AbyssRaven
26-10-2007, 09:32
How is this ?

The Raven – 255
Bretonian Lord
Birth sword of Carcassonne
Gromril War-helm
Virtue of Audacity
Royal Pegasus

Jhonathen of Two-Rivers – 205pts
Paladin
Lance
Warhorse
Banner of the Lady
Virtue of Discipline

The Damsel Kerry – 129pts
Barded warhorse
Chalice of Malfleur
Dispel scroll

Core

Lord Jhonathen’s personal Retinue – 241pts
8 Knights of the Realm
Full Command
Warbanner

Banner-men of Lord Jhonathen – 250pts
9 Knights of the Realm
Full Command
Banner of Chalons

Peasants – 120
20Bowmen

Special Units
Knights of the Raven – 250
4 Pegasus Knights
Full Command

Mounted Peasants- 150
10 Yeomen Riders

Rare Unit
Seekers of the Holy Grail – 397
9 Grail Knights
Full Command
Warbanner

Total 1997
Total: 18 Knight’s Vow, 9Grail Vow, 5Pegasus Riders, 40 archers, Wizard

I made the changes you recomended. Was usnure abut pegusis unit size, same with yemoen. So i went 4 pegusis + command. Add int he lrod that makes a full 5 unit.
If the lord isnt good ona pegusis, he can swap it for horse + grail vow. Drop a grail night and have enough for a 5th pegasus knight.

Also here is aquick little bit of back ground i scribbled down to add charecter

Soft rain pattered over the camp fire.
“M’lord” mumbled a peasant, bowing to the waist. Running of when Lord Jhonathen walked past.
“It’s a troubling night fair knight” The Damsel Kerry murmured form below her deep-set hood.
“What do you see Fair Damsel, so that thou may help guide us through the storm?” Jhonathen asked her, his voice worried.
“I see a Bird of black coming in the night. He will be the savior. For we are but doomed without him”
“A Black bird, are thou not wrong?” He asked her, knowing black birds were always a sign of ill intent
“Not today Fair Knight, not tonight” she murmured, before walking away, down another row of tents.

Jhonathen stood there, puzzled. A black bird? He wondered to himself.
“M’Lord come quick. There is unrest at the north entry” Spoke Lord Brunha.
“Trouble?” Jhonathen asked. Clearly not impressed by the news
“You will see M’lord” Brunha told him. His feet moving him faster thena Noble’s should.

“What is the Problem here?” Jhonathen demanded, his voice clear and commanding.
A pesant bowed low “M..M..M….M’lord” he stammered, nervous “I was on guard and…and…and he appeared. From no where!”
“Who Appeared?” Jhonathen demanded, temper short
“H..H..Him M’lord” the peasent stammered, pointing.
Jhonathen only just noticed the man. He stood still as a statue. Jhonathen Ran his eyes over him. A man in armour of the darkest night with a tabard as dark as deep blue night sky, bearing a raven.
“I am called The Raven. I Have come to aid you” the Knight said simply, his voice young.

Kadrium
26-10-2007, 13:00
That unit of grail knights is massive. I'm not a bret player, though I play against them fairly often, and that seems like a huge heap of points in one unit. My opinion isn't worth quite as much as the actual bret players though.

I can fairly confidently say that the yeomen will be more effective in 2 units of 5, with musicians. Take advantage of their fast cavalry rules to bait-and-flee from charges.

AbyssRaven
26-10-2007, 16:22
Its alot of points. but its an incredibly hard hitting unit.
I went for 9 beacuase lance formation charge. then stacking casualties. That should let them do damage for their point cost

Daleran
28-10-2007, 08:35
I run my GK in a unit of 5+ a damsel on a horse. Its a scary unit regardless of size, so its in your favor to keep it small in case it draws serious fire. I sometimes run the damsel with the MR3 arcane item, and the banner of defense making it a more expensive unit, but it draws SERIOUS fire, and survives it long enough for the less threatening and more dangerous part of my army to make it through the dead zone of missile fire. I've cut the MR3 item out of it lately though as most magic bounces off of them due to armor and ward saves anyway. Plus it only takes one spell before your opponent realizes he won't get anything off on them. Also you can only take one warbanner, so either drop it completely on the GK, or swap to the banner of defense.
Kadrium is most definetly right about the yeomen, 2 units of 5 with a musician and nothing else save possibly shields depending on how many spares you have at the end. Use them to bait the enemy into charges if he has no war machines, or support knight charges. If he has war machines deploy them in front of your peggie knights, and try to place across from a war machine that isn't on a hill while eliminating LOS to any on hills. He will be forced to fire on the yeomen as he can't see the pegs behind them, usually on the turn after you dive deep midfield. You eat one round of shooting in the yeomen hopefully killing enough to allow you LOS around them for a charge with the pegs. You can use that tactic on missile infantry too, although a unit of 3 pegs has a harder time dealing with a large unit of infantry head on. They will still likely win, but I hate leaving anything to chance...if you don't think you can break a unit on the charge don't charge it.

Badgertronic
28-10-2007, 08:45
is your lord meant to be duelist?

If so try this-
Lord with Lance of Artois,Virtue of Confidence,Armour of Algulf,Gauntlet of the Duel

Put either grail or knights vow

OK.HOw to use him.Challenge the champion,it cant refuse kill it and get some over kill!

SilverWarlock
28-10-2007, 13:36
a few things about the list, in point form:

fast cav you want to split up, so if you are going for 10 mounted yeomen, make it 2x5

grail knights are very good, and 9 is overkill, make it just 5-6 (and dont put a combat character in them) they become a very dangerous unit but much less of a point sink.

make the peasants two units of 10, no reason to stack them into one unit.

you can only have one warbanner, keep it in the knights of the realm.

the only reason for the lord to get a pegasus is if you want to have several units of pegasus knights, it is a very strong move, but you will be hated by everyone and their grandmother for it, so as a beginner I would suggest you leave him on his horse.

I dont have the book so this is just by comparison with other lists I have fought, but I think you may be overequipping your units and characters, the pegasi might not need the full command, the characters dont need all that much equipment (the BSB is probably better without banner of the lady, the lord can go to combat with just his horse and lance)

with the points saved you can add another unit of knights, either realm or errant.

Duke Raoul
28-10-2007, 13:54
Not a bad list imo, but remember your battle standard can't have a lance :(