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View Full Version : Scale, linking and the art of the table



Setrus
26-10-2007, 15:46
Or something. :p

I was just wondering a few things, and wished to exchange ideas. (On a forum? How bold!)

First of all...how many here play inquisitor to its normal scale? I tried, I actually have quite a few figures, converted and all. But their size made converting something of a pain at times (due to find parts working with the models) as well as making it quite expensive.
It also made introducing new characters - especially "bit-guys" (read fodder) - difficult, and though 40K terrain could sometimes be used it usually lead to terrain not usable in anything but inquisitor being made.
Then there was a more restricting problem. If you want a good game on this size you really have to use the floor, since they will otherwise run into one another way to fast in my opinion. Which of course leads to you needing more terrain...

So what I've restricted myself to is to use 40K models from the normal games (making it VERY easy to introduce fodder!) which means one can still use the table for your normal games, 40K terrain (as well as motivating you to make more which can be used to the normal everyday 40K battles)
Admittedly it makes it almost impossible to change the characters after big events (Like getting your face melted...actually that would be fairly easy...) but I feel the benefits make up for it.
Of course this is still a problem if you use the normal way of measuring things...I guess some of you use this system for models...so how do you solve this? I've gone for the simple way of using centimeters instead...lazy as I am.

Now this could potentially mean that it would be easier to link your 40K battles to your inquisitor battles (well...if you play marines it might be slightly uinfair during the skirmishes...) and would probably give the characters in the armies additional depth as their battle goes beyond the physical world.
It would also motivate you to some cooler 40K conversions which would raise the standard to your army...:angel:

And since you use the same terrain for it and 40K you could potentially have large battles in the same place where the inquisitorial duels have occured or are about to occur in in some sort of campaign setting..further adding to the depth and "size" of it.

These are mere ideas and not something I've put into practice all that much due to lack of opponents, but how many have tried this way? And how has it fared in linking your 40K battles to your inquisitorial? I imagine that a successfull integration would lead to a truly cinematic (if not all that tactical) campaign feel.

I'm all ears people. :)

Dark Seraphs
27-10-2007, 18:51
I dont use inquisitor scale, because you have more bits in 40k scale.

Its less expensive and its easier to drag new people into this.

kryptt
29-10-2007, 05:29
Yeah I thought of using 40k figs instead of =I= figs. I'v heard many just use 1yard= 1 inch. Unfortunatly I'm still trying to come to grips with the rules. I might just borrow some rules and mix them with the necromunda rules.

Gensuke626
29-10-2007, 06:17
I use standard Scale...Actually...having to improvise bits was what got me confident enough to start with Orks. What my group found was that it's not that hard to make Dual purpose terrain. You make buildings that are taller than they really need to be for 40k, and suddenly you've got shacks or small buildings for inquisitor. As a friend of mine pointed out, the imperial city terrain that was released with Cities of Death is big enough to be inquisitor terrain (slightly short and narrow, but that's not a huge problem).

I haven't tried linking games of Inquisitor to my 40k games yet, because I find that Kill Team works much better for it.

precinctomega
29-10-2007, 15:04
First of all...how many here play inquisitor to its normal scale?
On this forum? Surprisingly few. However, on the Conclave and SG Inqusitor forums, most of the participants use 54mm models.


their size made converting something of a pain at times (due to find parts working with the models) as well as making it quite expensive.
There is a neverending list of parts that work quite beautifully at 54mm even in GW's 28mm range. The new approach to bits at GW (due to be implemented some time next year) may make this more complicated, as bits won't be sold individually but in "packs" (Head pack 1, say, or packs designed to build a particular conversion, like they used to do in the days of the Citadel Journal). However, I'm hoping to put together some suggestions for "Inquisitor" packs - stuff that works well at 54mm. For a snapshot of the current range of bits that work at 54mm, visit The Inquisitor Modelling Resource Index (http://www.geocities.com/precinctomega/inquis/IMRI.html).

As far as "expensive" goes, that depends on what you compare it to. If you consider that a good game of 40k usually involves spending up to 100 on models, then the 30-50 that you need for a reasonable handful of 54mm models is quite a bargain. You can, of course, get started for as little as 15 (one model) or less if you pick up a bargain on eBay.

It's nonsense to pretend that it isn't even cheaper to start with one 28mm model, of course. But most veterans agree that playing at 54mm carries a number of advantages that make it a far more fulfilling game.


It also made introducing new characters - especially "bit-guys" (read fodder) - difficult
Depends on how you play. If four or five players come together, each with 8-10 models to draw on, and each has at least two "generic" type models (desperados, guardsmen, civilians, mutants etc) then whoever acts as GM can usually call upon a decent collection of generics by pooling everyone's collection. Alternatively, you can be like me and have a collection of 30+ models.


and though 40K terrain could sometimes be used it usually lead to terrain not usable in anything but inquisitor being made.
Why? I don't get it. Gothic Ruins, Jungle Trees, Cities of Death, Arcane Ruins, the new trees, battlefield materials, hills, fences, hedges... they all work just fine at both scales. I purpose-built a table for INQ for UK GD 06, but it was still perfectly usable as terrain for both urban warfare in 40k and for NEC (in fact, if you ignored the occasional computer terminal, it worked well as a WHQ tunnel system and even for MORD).


Then there was a more restricting problem. If you want a good game on this size you really have to use the floor, since they will otherwise run into one another way to fast in my opinion.
You've lost me again. If they "run into one another way too fast", then why not play scenarios where the objective of one side is to avoid the other? Or when one is fleeing from the other? Or where one is in fixed sniper positions and the other has to creep around, hugging terrain and diving for cover etc? I've never played a game on the floor in six years.

The whole "which is better? 28mm or 54mm?" debate has raged since INQ was released, but none of the usual arguments stand up to scrutiny. There are, in my experience, only two reasons to play at 28mm.

The first, is to try out the rules system with new players who don't want to splurge for new models in a game they might not enjoy - although, to be honest, in this situation, I prefer to simply produce models of my own for new players to check out. But I started with 28mm models and so did most of the players I know, so it's fair enough to start out small (literally). But the fact is, you'll never show any commmitment to a game you don't have to pay anything to play. If you fork out 100 on a new 40k army, you're going to make damn sure you make it to the gaming club to get the best out of your money! It's the same with INQ. If you make the effort to buy dedicated models, convert them painstakingly and paint them to the best of your ability, you'll make the effort to join in games and participate in campaigns, just to feel like you're getting your money's worth.

The other justifiable reason to play 28mm is if you live in OZ or NZ, where you have to Mail Order 54mm models from the UK.

R.

Setrus
29-10-2007, 16:48
I suppose you got quite a few good points there PO.

If one plays an army of 40K and a force of inquisitor I'd say that it would probably be cheaper to convert models in the 40K range to create characters within inquisitor. (Which would up the quality of your 40k models in a way.)
BUT...if one plays one or the other inquisitor is probably cheaper. (Unless, as you said, one has to order everything...which would screw me over.)
You're most probably right on the quality term, larger models means you can do quite a lot to them after all. But for me who has inquisitor more like a curious extra most of the time it's somewhat easier to use the 40k models.

How do you mark them from battles btw? (Like after say...a plasma pistol exploded in his face...) I would be terrified of doing it to such a large model and potentially ruin it. (If I do that to a smaller one I can easily replace it.)

You got access to four or five inquisitor players!? :eek: ;)

I understand what you're getting at when it comes to the table size. Though I really don't feel I should be restricted by the size of the area in what sort of mission I can set up. Plus...it annoy the crap out of me with people sprinting across the table in one turn...

BTW: I'm just now checking out your Within-Without-Beyond hub and I got to say I love it! It really shows the love some specialist games get from their fans.

precinctomega
30-10-2007, 10:19
If one plays an army of 40K and a force of inquisitor I'd say that it would probably be cheaper to convert models in the 40K range to create characters within inquisitor. (Which would up the quality of your 40k models in a way.)
I totally agree. But not everyone who wants to play INQ collects an Inquisition army for 40k. And when you start a 28mm campaign and face yet another player asking if they can use a Tyranid warrior band or a Daemon warrior band*, it gets a bit tiresome.

*I often say "Yes, but what about a genestealer cult? Just take one or two 'stealers from your army and then find some models to make a magus and a few hybrids - perhaps a brood brother or two..." And they look at me as if I'm mad and reply "But I just want to use models from my army."

"Yes, well, then Inqusitor probably isn't the game for you, right now. Go play some Kill Team and come back when you're prepared to think outside the box." I say that is all seriousness, because a good game of INQ positively demands the ability to generate original thought on the hoof. Players whose horizons stop at the last page of the codex should not even be allowed to look at the rulebook lest their puny brains implode.


BUT...if one plays one or the other inquisitor is probably cheaper. (Unless, as you said, one has to order everything...which would screw me over.)
It's cheaper and more satisfying. As my fellow 40k players like to point out "you can't lose a game of INQ" - because the point of the game is not to defeat ones opponent but to tell an entertaining story. Even if you fail and your opponent gets away or captures your PC or blows up the objective or whatever, that's just the cliffhanger before the next chapter starts!


You're most probably right on the quality term, larger models means you can do quite a lot to them after all. But for me who has inquisitor more like a curious extra most of the time it's somewhat easier to use the 40k models.
I accept that. But ultimately, it's less about quality than it is about character. A space marine army is pretty much a space marine army. There are some glorious exceptions (refer to SF Project Logs board for more details), but there's a limit to how much character a single 28mm model can possess. 54mm may only be twice as large but it opens up a vista of possibilities that vastly exceed the opportunities available to most modellers at 28mm.


How do you mark them from battles BTW? (Like after say...a plasma pistol exploded in his face...) I would be terrified of doing it to such a large model and potentially ruin it. (If I do that to a smaller one I can easily replace it.)

Two words: I don't. Not usually, anyway. Games tend to be one-off confrontations with a wide mix of models that often swap sides or change motivation from one game to another. But on the rare occasions that I do participate in a campaign where there's time between games to alter models, I have an extensive bits box acquired through careful trading on eBay and through Arcadian Smuggler's Ring, a Yahoo! group of INQ players who trade and swap parts on a strictly "not for profit" basis.


You got access to four or five inquisitor players!?
I have access to hundreds of INQ players. Although rarely at one time, I have to admit. In my local area I can call upon about half a dozen depending on term-time and suchlike. I also run occasional demo games at the local GW to drum up further interest and remind people that the game exists.

More importantly, there are semi-regular meet-ups at Warhammer World in Nottingham. The next one is the first official Inquisitor Grand Tournament on 8 Dec 07. Details at www.darkmagenta.net/inqgt.html


I understand what you're getting at when it comes to the table size. Though I really don't feel I should be restricted by the size of the area in what sort of mission I can set up. Plus...it annoy the crap out of me with people sprinting across the table in one turn...
I totally agree. Don't forget that sprinting over difficult ground is risky. It's also noisy. And can't be combined with anything else.


BTW: I'm just now checking out your Within-Without-Beyond hub and I got to say I love it! It really shows the love some specialist games get from their fans.
It's a labour of love. I'm not looking forward to re-doing it when the new bits service kicks in...

Come and join us at the Conclave and discover just how large and extensive the INQ community really is!

R.

Catferret
03-11-2007, 06:51
I have to jump in here with something. I play Inquisitor exclusively in 54mm. And yes, I have spent a fortune on making models.

I found my converting and GS skills improved rapidly by working on 54mm models. The larger size makes sculpting detail a lot easier. Once I had the hang of it I was able to transfer these skills to 28mm.

54mm also makes for great display models.

On the subject of terrain, the cities of death stuff will sufficiently block los and mark out areas of buildings. It's good enough for most purposes.

precinctomega
04-11-2007, 17:12
So are the new moonscape pieces, the new trees and the new arcane ruins.

R.

talos935
04-11-2007, 18:54
Then there was a more restricting problem. If you want a good game on this size you really have to use the floor, since they will otherwise run into one another way to fast in my opinion. Which of course leads to you needing more terrain...


Stop thinking laturally and start thinking vertically. Most of my good inquisitor games have been on a 4'x4' board with multiple levels to sneak through or to be shot/thrown off! :o

Big flat boards make for almost medievil cannon charges across the board :( Whereas with multiple levels you can potentially sneak up on that dang sniper who hasn't moved all game!

You can throw a basic "urban" board together with a few mail order boxes and some rulers for walk ways

That's my 2 pence anyway

sagittar slaith
16-02-2008, 09:23
i just use 40k scale models

Puuka
09-07-2008, 22:27
I am looking to get in to this. I had looked when it first came out and got some 40K models to use, then never actually got in to it (Group at work kind of broke up before it started after some lay offs)
Now my son is getting in to 40K, he doesn't have a lot right now, but, he does have a few that could be used in a small =][= band. With what I have done up thrown in, then we're good.
I've also found some other models that would work in the 40K scale. D&D has an Iron Defender (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/Dungeons_of_Dread_Gallery/Iron_Defender.jpg) that looks like a Cyber Mastiff (as comes with Special Security Enforcer Barbaretta or Lucretia (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99111399015&orignav=300808) There is also the Dire Rats (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/DQ_Minis_x/DiseasedDireRat.jpg) that look kind of like the one from the rule book (I don't have it with me, or I would give the page and name)

Anyone else find other models that would work? Am I going to get flamed because everyone here is a purist? ;)

precinctomega
10-07-2008, 19:21
Very few people here are purists. But if your son is getting into 40k, then playing INQ isn't going to help. How old is he? I generally don't recommend INQ for players younger than 16 unless you're prepared to GM every game you play.

As far as lists of alternate manufacturers go, at 28mm the list is literally endless: Reaper, Rackham, WizKids, Privateer Press, Wyrd, Hasslefree (especially Hasslefree), Heresy, Dark Age... I could go on all day.

As far as 54mm goes, the best resource is www.historex-agents.com - do a search for 54mm and discover how many thousands of 54mm models there are out there.

R.

Puuka
10-07-2008, 21:53
ok, thanks. It's not so much teaching him Inq to teach him the rules, it's more so he can play somethign with the figures he's doing until he has enough for an actual army. He's 11, so having something painted "just to look at" isn't his thing at this point.

I also found these http://www.fantization.com/index.asp?Category=6&PageAction=VIEWCATS
Reapers has some nice ones that would be east to customize.

Hand
05-08-2008, 16:56
I much prefer to paint 54mm models. 28mm terrain is fine though.

Puuka
10-12-2008, 22:44
I am looking to get in to this. I had looked when it first came out and got some 40K models to use, then never actually got in to it (Group at work kind of broke up before it started after some lay offs)
Now my son is getting in to 40K, he doesn't have a lot right now, but, he does have a few that could be used in a small =][= band. With what I have done up thrown in, then we're good.
I've also found some other models that would work in the 40K scale. D&D has an Iron Defender (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/Dungeons_of_Dread_Gallery/Iron_Defender.jpg) that looks like a Cyber Mastiff (as comes with Special Security Enforcer Barbaretta or Lucretia (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99111399015&orignav=300808) There is also the Dire Rats (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/DQ_Minis_x/DiseasedDireRat.jpg) that look kind of like the one from the rule book (I don't have it with me, or I would give the page and name)

Anyone else find other models that would work? Am I going to get flamed because everyone here is a purist? ;)
OK finally got some pics
My "Cyber mastiff" and other pets http://www.invisigoth.thaneros.com/WH40K/DnDFigs.jpg
Techpriest I made from Mageknight fig with bits from Horrorclix and 40K stuff http://www.invisigoth.thaneros.com/WH40K/techpriest.jpg
Some painted figures (One on the left is from Warmachine) http://www.invisigoth.thaneros.com/WH40K/Asstfigures.jpg
Other game figs that I use http://www.invisigoth.thaneros.com/WH40K/othergamefigs.jpg
Jetbike fig I made from Heroclix figs http://www.invisigoth.thaneros.com/WH40K/Jetbike.jpg
Weird Scorpion thing I made from bits and a Mageknight fig http://www.invisigoth.thaneros.com/WH40K/ChaosScorp.jpg

precinctomega
11-12-2008, 11:31
Those're great. How do you organize them for games?

R.

Puuka
11-12-2008, 12:04
Those're great. How do you organize them for games?

R.

Still working on it. The pets are easy enough, the red "dog" is my Cyber mastiff for the female with claws. Haven't had much time to put in to them since I've just moved and work has been busy.

Ranger S2H
13-12-2008, 18:24
i use neither 28 nor 54 mm figs, as I am quite new to inquisitor and my 40k army is just geting of the ground, but i was interested in narrative wargaming. the answer lied in my attic: LEGO minifigs. these come with a number of advatages:

1: theyre cheap, and most people already have some.
2: you can swap weapons easily.
3: terrain can be completely different each game.
4: both the figs and the terrain can be torn apart for carnage and destruction (i like this advantage the most :P)

Hadriel Caine
15-12-2008, 00:13
In terms of terrain being an impossibility at 54mm I suggest you look at this:

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691

:D

Adam

p.s. @ Ranger lookie here for more LEGO based =][= fun:

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670

JudasDawn
02-02-2009, 23:52
I haven't played in about 5 years but recently bought a bundle of inquisitors from a guy. I've ended up enjoying converting them so much i've started planning an epic gaming board. Look out for the thread soon!