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View Full Version : Lizardmen 2k without any lords, magic items or further cheese (can it work?)



Thunkorknivor
08-09-2005, 03:23
Hey hey.

I put together a Lizardmen list for an upcoming local tournament, intending to score as high as possible on army composition and painting. The comp-guidlines are pre-set, and rates my list at 29 out of 30. But does it stand a chance against all the cheese you have to swim through at tournies these days? :p

So, here it is, the infamous QaD (Quetzl army of Doom):

Characters:

Saurus Scar-Veteran of quetzl [128]
Great Weapon, Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield
Blessed Spawning of Tepok

Saurus Scar-Veteran of quetzl [147]
Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Battle Standard
Blessed Spawning of Tepok

Saurus Scar-Veteran of quetzl [137]
Hand Weapon, Spear, Shield, Cold One
Blessed Spawning of Itzl

Core:

20 Saurus Warriors of quetzl F.C. [300]
20 Saurus Warriors of quetzl F.C. [300]
19 Saurus Warriors of quetzl F.C. [288]

10 Skink Skirmishers of quetzl [65]
Javelins and shields
10 Skink Scouts of quetzl [75]
Javelins and shields

Special:

5 Cold Ones Standard [195]

3 Terradons [105]

Rare:

2 Salamanders [130]
2 Salamanders [130]

Total Points: 2000!


As you can see, I used the Sacred Host of Quetzl. My basic plan is to make all my armour save rolls, as I wade through the hailstorm of Magic Missiles on my way to crush the enemy with my scaly horde. I wanted to try and cheese in another direction (the comp direction), as a nice relief from my Southlands Skink army of total Doom and magic domination.

So, what do you think? Will I get slaughtered?

backslide
08-09-2005, 08:42
looks fine to me.

though I would have though you would be better off by making the saurus units smaller and having a 4th one

nurgle_boy
08-09-2005, 10:12
no, bad backslide!
big units = good.

mroe survivablility, and they hit harder, and end up with a full combat res of 5 (if you outnumber!)

maybe boost one up to 24 with a hero, that way you can take 6 losses before losing that precious rank bonus.

just remember to protedt ad screen the big units though!

RdDragon5
08-09-2005, 15:36
you have a unit of 20, 20 and 19, why not drop 2 saurus and make them all 19, then making the skinks units a little larger. That +5 missile save will only last for so long.

Also I hope you know the value of charging your little skinkies into combat. WHAT!? you say, well I don't mean try to take out chaos warriors, but handgunners, bowmen, war machine crews. Skinks may be weak toughness wise, but they're just as strong, and with a 4+ close combat save they really suprise people.

Thunkorknivor
08-09-2005, 15:38
maybe boost one up to 24 with a hero, that way you can take 6 losses before losing that precious rank bonus.
Nah, if I actually had 48 points to spare, bumping a unit up to 24 wouldn't be my first priority. I'd rather add another Cold One or Terradon, or maybe a musician for my knights as well. But I really can't find those 48 points anywhere in the list, as I feel everything up to this point is quite essential.


I agree on the big units though. There's no point in shrinking my units to 16, as that still wouldn't give me the points to add another unit of 16, and I refuse to go below 16 Saurus in each unit.


Any more thoughts or suggestions? Please don't tell me to get rid of a Standard or add magic items, as this would greatly decrease my comp score.

nurgle_boy
08-09-2005, 16:43
ah, i forgot about saurus being so expensive...

in that case, if you use it effectivly, it should do ok...

ElfGuy
08-09-2005, 17:54
Cut a block of Saurus Warriors entirely. I think you may just get slaughtered with your current list. You don't have nearly enough support units, just 2 Skink units, a small unit of flyers, and the Salamanders. Your list is really low on Skinks, you don't have any Kroxigors or a Stegadon for punch. Four dispel dice is not an adaquet magic defense, especially in a tournament. Your Scar-Veterans on foot provide little else than more attack power, you would be much better served by some more mobile Kroxigors.

Your Saurus Warriors chalked full of characters are not goining to win you any victory points. Your Scar-Veterans are only providing more points to be ignored or won by your opponent. Your saurus infantry will likely be avoided while the rest of your army is crushed. Your opponent will deal with them on his own terms, when he thinks he can soundly break the unit. Competative armies are designed to crush block troops, cavalry, shooting, magic all spell death for infanty. Infantry armies, especially elite infantry like Elves, Chaos Warriors, and Saurus Warriors, don't win games because of their exellent statline/special rules. Infantry is only useful when well supported by other more mobil units or if you have a great deal of it.

Thunkorknivor
09-09-2005, 00:18
I'm currently very tempted to remove the 19 saurus and add a unit of 3 Kroxigors and another unit of 3 Terradons. The problem is that doing this would cut my comp-score down to 25 instead of 29 due to the lack of 5+ standards in the army, as well as the points earned for having many saurus warriors. Maybe some playtesting will help me come to my senses.

However, if I remove one Salamander, and put the other three in the same unit, I'll be back on a decent comp score of 27. I'd also have 65+5 points left to add some skinks or something. I could for example buy another unit of 10 skirmishers, or alternatively get 2 more Terradons making my two units 4 strong. Is this something that you guys would recommend?


Competative armies are designed to crush block troops, cavalry, shooting, magic all spell death for infanty. Infantry armies, especially elite infantry like Elves, Chaos Warriors, and Saurus Warriors, don't win games because of their exellent statline/special rules. Infantry is only useful when well supported by other more mobil units or if you have a great deal of it.
I know this far too well from playing a Southlands list for some time now. But this is not a Grand Tournament, and I know a lot of people will try to score high on army composition as well. 27 out of 30 however, is a bit extreme, but even though I'm willing to try and cheese on the comp and painting this time, I'd like to have a list that's capable of dealing with most armies and have a decent chance of coming out on top.


Further suggestions?

Thunkorknivor
09-09-2005, 00:59
Alright, I've made a few changes to the list, and I'm going to playtest it next Sunday. Here is what it looks like right now (much thanks to ElfGuy's suggestions):

Characters:

Saurus Scar-Veteran of quetzl [128]
Great Weapon, Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Shield
Blessed Spawning of Tepok

Saurus Scar-Veteran of quetzl [147]
Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Battle Standard
Blessed Spawning of Tepok

Saurus Scar-Veteran of quetzl [139]
Hand Weapon, Spear, Light Armour, Shield, Cold One
Blessed Spawning of Itzl

Core:

20 Saurus Warriors of quetzl F.C. [300]
20 Saurus Warriors of quetzl F.C. [300]

10 Skink Skirmishers of quetzl [65]
Javelins and shields
10 Skink Skirmishers of quetzl [65]
Javelins and shields
11 Skink Scouts of quetzl [82]
Blow Pipes

Special:

5 Cold Ones Standard [195]

3 Terradons [105]

3 Terradons [105]

3 Kroxigors [174]

Rare:

3 Salamanders [195]

Total Points: 2000!


Is this better? It loses 2 points in army comp, but is still very viable.

the_night_reaper
09-09-2005, 03:45
I don't know about this list. You have lots of support units, but only a couple units to support.

And you WILL get killed in the magic phase. You'll be dreading every magic phase, of every game that you play. So I would suggest dropping a scar vet or even 2 if you really wanted to but i dont know how it would do in your comp score for a skink priest. You definately have enough skinks in your army to make his presence reasonable. He'll be able to provide extra magic defense and he might be able to get off a spell or to himself.

And could you post the guide line of this comp score for the tournament your entering, because itwould really help me to know what the rules are.

Thunkorknivor
09-09-2005, 04:11
And could you post the guide line of this comp score for the tournament your entering, because itwould really help me to know what the rules are.
Basically, I won't add any Magic Item or Lord Choice, and it would be good to have 5+ standards in the list, but I can get by on 4. More Sallies is bad, and the Saurus Warriors is what gives me most of my comp points. Adding a priest would give me 3 or 4 power dice, which doesn't give you the extra points you get for 2 power dice.


And you WILL get killed in the magic phase. You'll be dreading every magic phase, of every game that you play. So I would suggest dropping a scar vet or even 2 if you really wanted to but i dont know how it would do in your comp score for a skink priest. You definately have enough skinks in your army to make his presence reasonable. He'll be able to provide extra magic defense and he might be able to get off a spell or to himself.
I know the magic phases will be horrendous, but the comp rules really penalize magic-heavy armies, and hopefully, their precence will be limited. I can't really swap a Scar-Vet for a priest though, as this wouldn't get me any extra dispel dice (as the scar-vet already gives a dd himself due to the blessing of Tepok), and as I won't use Scrolls, I see little use for a priest. His offencive capabilities are rather limited as well as most armies can easily deal with a single (heavens-using) second level wizard.

Adlan
09-09-2005, 08:36
On the list with two saurus units, I'd drop one scar vetran for a skink priest. Maybe the cold one rider?