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Gilded Soul
29-10-2007, 02:53
I am a new Chaos player, and I was wondering if those others of you who have Chaos armies (Legions only) could enlighten me as to the strengths and weaknesses of the Legions which you play (the official website doesn't really say anything useful in that regard).

calicojack
29-10-2007, 03:09
The answer to this varies widely, depending upon the edition of the CSM codex you will be using. Are you playing under 3.0, 3.5, or 4.0? Most likely 4.0, however the effects of the Legions were minimized with the new codex, which will therefore affect the answers you get.

In essence, if you are using 4.0 [the new codex], there is no mechanical differentiation amongst the Legions.

HOWEVER, if you wish to represent the Legions, there are a few restrictions which you will want to voluntarily take on.

World Eaters: Khorne Berserkers as troops, all units with the Mark of Khorne; no sorcerers. Hearking back to "Slaves to Darkness" feel free to include Khorne heavy support such as Havocs.

Death Guard: Plague Marines as Troops, and all units with the Mark of Nurgle. Avoid Heavy Weapons, and concentrate on Special Weapons instead.

Thousand Sons: Well, Thousand Sons as troops, obviously. Sorcerer(s) rather than Lord, and Daemons. Demons demons.

Emperor's Children: Noise Marines as an "elite" troops units, and everything else with the Mark of Slaanesh. Daemon Prince appropriate. Avoid Lash, only because folks think of it as "beardy" [grins]. Possessed appropriate too. Lots of heavy and "shooty" weaponry.

Alpha Legion: Unmarked or "Chaos Glory." Few [if any] daemons. Use Kroot [or Kroot rules] for Cultists, from the "Kroot Mercenary army" rules [download at GW].

Word Bearers: Well, I'm afraid that most of what made the Word Bearers distinct is out, at least for now.

Black Legion: Anything goes.

Iron Warriors: Focus on your Obliterators, and siege units. Terminators are very appropriate here [elite siege troops]. Not so much Fast Attack.

Night Lords: Raptors and Raptors and Chosen and Terminators... Quick, surgical strikes [like Alpha Legion], to strike terror into the hearts of your enemies. Skip the Kroot "Cultists" here, 'though.

Xenocidal Maniac
29-10-2007, 03:11
WARNING: A new Chaos codex just came out, and you're going to hear a lot of whining on this thread. Ignore it.

I have a Khorne Legion. It kills stuff in close combat. Hard. Nurgle cultists are really tough to kill. Tzeentch cultists are also tough to kill. Slaanesh? Hmmm. A bit faster than normal marines and have access to some nice weaponry.

jhon
29-10-2007, 07:58
in this ed slaanesh is either a high pts unit of strom bolter shoter from hell , or a cheap close combat unit with I5 . never , never pull both element togather in the same unit ...

T sons in this ed is a shot and assault unit , AP 3 bolter with slow and pursposeful is a kick in shooting , a psker with a force weapon is a killer in close combat ..... the 4+ ive save is good but far from unbreakalbe , the pts of a unit 5 men squad is already very, very, high . careful with where should they be put , a rhino is most recommende .....

palgue marine is the best cult troop in this edition , T5[4] with fnp is just all most impossable to kill by small arm [ weapon with str 5 or less ] . also they are the only unit you dont have to take full squad in order to take an other special weapon . 2 plamsa gun with champ arm with a combie plasma or a plasma pistol is recommende .....

zerker of khrone ..... WS 5 and furosious charge with 4 attack on charge is tastly but they are just not as good as other or last ed but they are still good . just dont charge they to any strong close combat unit and they will do fine ........


well , that is some feedback of mine for the cult troops. hope it help ...

ps:
since you thread is about how cult troop work i m not going get too off topic . over all this codex is stronger than the last edition , but it is also a fun killer , lack of the upgrade option the cult unit is reduce to troop only , the deamon is dry etc ....from my personal view this codex is more tournery friendly than fun gaming friendly...

Bassik
29-10-2007, 08:29
Unlike what a lot of people complain about, the Legions are still there, you just have to tool your armylist to them, instead of using a tooled armylist.
There is a big plus in this new codex when you wish to play a God dedicated Legion; if you want a Khorne army, you are not limmited to Berserkers, you can also throw in a normal Chaos Marine squad and give them the Mark of Khorne. Previously, a Marine with the Mark of Khorne automaticly became a berserker.

This opens up a lot of tactical flexibillety for the army. But the strongest Legion out there, in my opinion, is the Black Legion, for they can use everything in the book, and make it seem fluffy.
I don't know what you are after, but if you like tactical flexibillety, go for Black Legion (or any other vanilla army list)

TheOverlord
29-10-2007, 13:42
The Black Legion is by far the most diverse of all the legions, able to command the loyalty of many legions when they need it. They are therefore easily the most versatile and customizable army there is. Some may call it vanilla, then again they're not quite right in the head. :D

And Bassik has it right. Black Legion IS the strongest of the legions, and you all know that!

FOR THE WARMASTER!

==Me==
29-10-2007, 14:30
Well, I don't play Chaos but ==My== main opponent does so I'm fairly well acquainted with the spiky freaks:D

The new Codex makes Legions a purely player choice, with no extra rules to distinguish them. This makes it just as easy to play a fluffy Legion army, a renegade army, or anything in between.

So, if you're keen on Legions, here's what I've gathered:

Black Legion: The most powerful and diverse Legion, anything goes here.

World Eaters: All Khorne, all the time. You can either go pure WE with Berzerkers, vehicles and characters with MoK. For added flexibility you can take units with icons of Khorne (to represent specialists balancing their love of stabbing people with their training/love of their gear)

Emperor's Children: Give everything that can have it the mark/icon of Slaanesh. Noise Marines, vehicles w/ dirge casters, characters with MoS. Not all Noise Marines are EC and vice versa, so units with icons are acceptable. Also, feel free to convert vehicles/elites/bikes with sonic weaponry (count as regular weapons) as they are used in the fluff.

Death Guard: Nurgle 24/7. Marks/icons on everything possible and you'll be all set. Also, the DG were mainly an infantry based Legion, so steer away from vehicles if possible.

Thousand Sons: All original TSons were Sorcerors or Rubric Marines thanks to the Rubric of Ahriman. However, you can add units with icons to represent new recruits.

Alpha Legion: These guys are the most tactically capable Legion, spread throughout the galaxy striking at the Imperium. Any style of army will work for them, even one using the =][= or SM Codeces. But typically, you'll want Chaos Marines and infiltrating chosen with cultists represented by generic daemons. No marks/icons of specific gods, only Chaos Glory.

Word Bearers: Religious nuts, horde-type marines. Convert your HQ into a Dark Apostle (evil Chaplain) and take lots of daemons and troops. Also, Chaos Glory only.

Night Lords: Sneaky, speedy, scary. Loads of Fast Attack and mounted units. Chaos Glory only.

Iron Warriors: Siege specialists. You can either go for a shooty army from hell or a more mixed approach with units like Vindicators and mounted CSMs with 2 special weapons to breach the defenses and kill the enemy in brutal close combat. Add hazard stripes to taste.

Those are the 9 Legions and, with a little imagination, can easily be make using the current Chaos Codex.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled whinefest:p

Bassik
29-10-2007, 14:58
==You==, that was a great post, good job.

==Me==
29-10-2007, 15:08
Why thank you Bassik, I try :D

andyfair
29-10-2007, 15:21
Well, I don't play Chaos but ==My== main opponent does so I'm fairly well acquainted with the spiky freaks:D

The new Codex makes Legions a purely player choice, with no extra rules to distinguish them. This makes it just as easy to play a fluffy Legion army, a renegade army, or anything in between.

So, if you're keen on Legions, here's what I've gathered:

Black Legion: The most powerful and diverse Legion, anything goes here.

World Eaters: All Khorne, all the time. You can either go pure WE with Berzerkers, vehicles and characters with MoK. For added flexibility you can take units with icons of Khorne (to represent specialists balancing their love of stabbing people with their training/love of their gear)

Emperor's Children: Give everything that can have it the mark/icon of Slaanesh. Noise Marines, vehicles w/ dirge casters, characters with MoS. Not all Noise Marines are EC and vice versa, so units with icons are acceptable. Also, feel free to convert vehicles/elites/bikes with sonic weaponry (count as regular weapons) as they are used in the fluff.

Death Guard: Nurgle 24/7. Marks/icons on everything possible and you'll be all set. Also, the DG were mainly an infantry based Legion, so steer away from vehicles if possible.

Thousand Sons: All original TSons were Sorcerors or Rubric Marines thanks to the Rubric of Ahriman. However, you can add units with icons to represent new recruits.

Alpha Legion: These guys are the most tactically capable Legion, spread throughout the galaxy striking at the Imperium. Any style of army will work for them, even one using the =][= or SM Codeces. But typically, you'll want Chaos Marines and infiltrating chosen with cultists represented by generic daemons. No marks/icons of specific gods, only Chaos Glory.

Word Bearers: Religious nuts, horde-type marines. Convert your HQ into a Dark Apostle (evil Chaplain) and take lots of daemons and troops. Also, Chaos Glory only.

Night Lords: Sneaky, speedy, scary. Loads of Fast Attack and mounted units. Chaos Glory only.

Iron Warriors: Siege specialists. You can either go for a shooty army from hell or a more mixed approach with units like Vindicators and mounted CSMs with 2 special weapons to breach the defenses and kill the enemy in brutal close combat. Add hazard stripes to taste.

Those are the 9 Legions and, with a little imagination, can easily be make using the current Chaos Codex.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled whinefest:p

Very useful to me as well being a new chaos player (soon - I am constructing the army now).

I am going for predominantly Black Legion.

However I don't understand re Night Lords for example. The 2 lines in the codex supports what you say above, but nothing special listed for them in the codex so do they just operate as normal CSMs now, but look different?

sephiroth87
29-10-2007, 17:21
That's correct. They have no more rules, other than just basic marines. A fluffy army would probably max out on raptors and bikes and maybe take a unit of furies as generic daemons. But you can make whatever you want now and call them night lords.

ffoecaf
29-10-2007, 17:33
Snip

Good ideas, but I don't think you need to only use Glory for the last few non-god dedicated legions. Yeah, they don't follow only one specific god and do follow just 'Chaos', but if modeled properly, the different god icons would work well. Depending on your fluff, at least.

Like if I were doing Night Lords that are Heresey Vets, I might do bikers or raptors with the icon of Slaanesh, cause they're extremely skilled at hitting quickly, and the +1 I would represent that.

Course, I'm also doing a pure Slaaneshi force, and using converted Bezerkers as drugged up Emperor's Children, so YMMV.

==Me==
29-10-2007, 20:00
Good ideas, but I don't think you need to only use Glory for the last few non-god dedicated legions. Yeah, they don't follow only one specific god and do follow just 'Chaos', but if modeled properly, the different god icons would work well. Depending on your fluff, at least.

Like if I were doing Night Lords that are Heresey Vets, I might do bikers or raptors with the icon of Slaanesh, cause they're extremely skilled at hitting quickly, and the +1 I would represent that.

Course, I'm also doing a pure Slaaneshi force, and using converted Bezerkers as drugged up Emperor's Children, so YMMV.

Great idea, taking counts-as even further. I like it:)

Visionary
29-10-2007, 20:03
Great idea, taking counts-as even further. I like it:)

The art of 'counts as', the only rule is you need something to count as something that it is not!

SwordsofChaos
29-10-2007, 20:16
I have Iron Warriors,so I can tell you, if you want to have them fluffy, your gonna have a hard time making room for all the stuff you want.
A Vindicator is virtually a must (of course there isnīt anyone forcing you), but it would also be nice some squad(s) to represent the forces that will storm the breaches, or hold the walls, or storm them, Havocs, Raptors, and the normal chaos marines would do this nicely I think.

SwordJon
29-10-2007, 20:35
Don't forget, Iron Warriors have a number of Berzerkers for capitalising upon holes in enemy fortresses. Nothing like the fury of a Berzerker to lead the charge into enemy citadels!

calicojack
29-10-2007, 21:37
Note: I've finished my post above, for what it is worth. See post #2 in the thread for my suggestions on what "limits" you can give your force to theme to each of the Nine Legions.

Leftenant Gashrog
29-10-2007, 22:05
Night Lords: Sneaky, speedy, scary. Loads of Fast Attack and mounted units. Chaos Glory only.


Of course it could be argued that Chaos Glory should should actually be the one Mark Night Lords should never have, since they despise all religion and would so would never give a damn about Glory of Chaos, whereas all the other marks could be described as coming from "you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours" style daemonic pacts

Ddraiglais
30-10-2007, 01:10
For AL you want all kinds of cultists. For IW, a basilisk is a must...

Forget what I was saying. There are no more legions unless you play Apocalypse.

Axis
30-10-2007, 01:21
For Night Lords i see their main trait as being scary. You don't really need to get loads of fast attack.. a lot people think main trait is speed though. You can take either path.

==Me==
30-10-2007, 03:50
For AL you want all kinds of cultists. For IW, a basilisk is a must...

Forget what I was saying. There are no more legions unless you play Apocalypse.

Use generic daemons for cultists, summoning represents them popping up out of hiding to aid their masters.

IW = siege
Bassy =/= siege
Vindicator = siege


For Night Lords i see their main trait as being scary. You don't really need to get loads of fast attack.. a lot people think main trait is speed though. You can take either path.

Good call, you don't have to be fast to be scary (it just helps;))