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AbyssRaven
30-10-2007, 08:48
After a discusion witha firned on MSN i was wondering, what are all the gods of 40k?

Obviously

Imperium - The Emperor
Imperium - Machine God
Chaos - Khorn
Chaos - Tzeench
Chaos - Slaanesh
Chaos - Nurgle
Chaos That 5th guy who starts with m who cant me mentioned
Eldar - The Laughing God
Eldar - Khaine (Kaela Mensha Khaine), the god of war
Eldar - Vaul, the Smith God
Eldar - Y'nnead (not yet born)
Eldar - Asuryan
Eldar - Kurnous
Eldar - Isha
Eldar - Lileath
Eldar - Gia
Eldar - Morai-Heg
Eldar - Cegorach
Ork - Gork
Ork - Mork
Necron - Void Dragon
Necron - The Deciever
Necron - Nightbringer
Necron - The Outsider
"The Old Ones"

Who am i missing here?

Brotherdraagor
30-10-2007, 08:51
The remaining C'Tan (cannot recall names right now) and Gork and Mork.

Bob Hunk
30-10-2007, 08:55
The fourth C'tan is 'The Outsider'.

Gorbad Ironclaw
30-10-2007, 09:54
The Eldars have a lot more goods than that. It's just that anyone but the Laughing God and Khaine have been killed by Slaanesh.
Essentially, they have all the gods the Elves have, they are just alive in Warhammer.

Terror of the East
30-10-2007, 10:05
Eldar Gods, Asuryan , Kurnous, Isha, Vaul, Lileath, Gia, Khaine( later Kaela Mensha Khaine and then later split into the Avarars), Morai-Heg, Cegorach (the Laughing God). however it must be noted that only Cegorach and Kaela Mensha Khaine in the form of the avatar is still "alive".
Y'nnead- god of the dead.but not quite a god and more of a colective of the Eldar souls stored in the Craftworld Infinity Circuits. hes is a god waiting to be fully birthed and will fight slannesh and win, irony of it all is that for Y'nnead to become a full god it will require all the souls of ever Eldear alive ever. thus making the eldar extinct.

think this is right! hope it helped.

AbyssRaven
30-10-2007, 10:10
Its is my beliefe when Y'nnead is reborn he will have the power to recreate the Eldar race (me and a firned were discussing this afew minutes ago on msn)

Terror of the East
30-10-2007, 10:15
ah so he will kill them then re-create them. souns verry eldar. lol but makes sence seeing how Y'nnead will be basicly made fromm all the eldar anyhow. will he make them new Eldar bodies or make them metal necron bodies! wait maby i should open a topic on this!lol

anyhow... there useto be an ork god called Bork but thats been droped. so lets not be seeing this name anymore ;)

AbyssRaven
30-10-2007, 10:27
I think orcs worship red stripes as well to be honest >.>

boogle
30-10-2007, 10:30
The '5th chaos God' is reputed to be called Malal, bnut there are loads of conjecture and arguments about its validity as a Canon God

AbyssRaven
30-10-2007, 10:33
Yah i know. But i know its generally against msot rules to mention that M guy. i know on the old GW forums his name ina thread got the entire thread purged faster theny ou can say "hay look,a demon!"

boogle
30-10-2007, 10:37
Well it's because it's really old background, he may also be a Lovecraftian Invention.

as far as i know he's the Chaos God, who hates all Chaos

EldarWolf
30-10-2007, 10:51
They don't allow Malal because he isn't their IP. Having said that there's more than a passing resemblance to the Skaven "Horned Rat"...
All praise the big M, and stuff the other four! :-)

AbyssRaven
30-10-2007, 10:52
yah malal is the chaos god who hates chaos. Chaos in its purest form. To such an extent even other followers of malal hate each other

GASP!
ordo malleus, lesser extent malal worshipers for there hate of chaos?

EVIL INC
30-10-2007, 10:53
The old ones werent gods. Those were the Slann.

boogle
30-10-2007, 11:07
But were seen as Gods by the young Races (which is what makes Gods Gods
)
If you were using that Argument, then the Emperor isn't a God either

FeetOfClay
30-10-2007, 11:28
Weren't the Slann servants of the Old Ones?

AmKhaibitu
30-10-2007, 11:41
Well the Emperor isn't a god, he slapped people down for calling him such.
What he is, is a rotting flesh-bag kept in a state of near-death to justify an empire far from his vision.

Urza
30-10-2007, 11:46
Well the Emperor isn't a god, he slapped people down for calling him such.
What he is, is a rotting flesh-bag kept in a state of near-death to justify an empire far from his vision.

He does have the potential to ascend to Godhood when he finally dies though, in the form of the Starchild.

As far as I'm aware, the Slann are the Old Ones. Different names for the same thing.

thorgrim
30-10-2007, 11:47
The old ones werent gods. Those were the Slann.

The old ones created the Slann. They then began a war with the C'tan and created the Orks to battle the Necrons that the C'tan made. This is the reason that Orks are spread throughout the galaxy, love to fight, are tougher than week old beef and have genetic knowledge.

The slann were created to fufil the Old ones plans in the Warhammer world and are the Old ones chief servants on that world. THE SLANN ARE NOT THE OLD ONES!

Hulkster
30-10-2007, 11:57
orks were created to be workers at first

they were then used for war

AbyssRaven
30-10-2007, 12:34
Orks, Eldar and other dead races were created to battle the Necrons.
C'tan started the war by decideing old ones tasted good (finely aged? lol ok bad joke)

Supremearchmarshal
30-10-2007, 13:12
Other chaos gods include An'sl, Mo'rcck,and Phraz-Etar, but these are just puns on fantasy writers and the founder of Citadel Miniatures.

There are also several unknown chaos powers (like what the Obliterators worship, the power that helped the Sons of Malice etc.).


Well it's because it's really old background, he may also be a Lovecraftian Invention.

as far as i know he's the Chaos God, who hates all Chaos

He's definitely not Lovecraftian - John Wagner and Alan Grant invented him. You are correct in saying he's the god of Chaos who hates all Chaos. More specifically, since Chaos represents near-unlimited possibilities, he represents the possibility of its self-destruction.

For anyone interested about Malal, check out the wikipedia article on Malal and this site:

http://www.freewebs.com/malal-lives/index.htm

Tehkonrad
30-10-2007, 22:45
WTF was bork the god of badly thought out names?

Supremearchmarshal
30-10-2007, 23:02
WTF was bork the god of badly thought out names?

I think he was the god of tactics or something like that - very strange for Orcs (AFAIK he was fantasy-only).

El Presedente
30-10-2007, 23:17
John Wagner and Alan Grant invented him.

And therefore is the greatest Chaos God ever.

Klomster
31-10-2007, 01:02
The remaining C'Tan (cannot recall names right now) and Gork and Mork.

Is it just me that think it's funny you say he forgot gork n' mork.

But yet they are there wery easy to see.

(If they were actually inserted after this post, you are allowed to hysteriously flame me)

LexxBomb
31-10-2007, 11:58
what about the StarChild and in a very minor way the hydra made by ordo hydra

boogaloo
31-10-2007, 21:25
Well it's because it's really old background, he may also be a Lovecraftian Invention.

as far as i know he's the Chaos God, who hates all Chaos

what the (Insert profanity here) is "Lovecraftian"

Supremearchmarshal
31-10-2007, 21:29
what the (Insert profanity here) is "Lovecraftian"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovecraftian_horror

Indrid Khold
31-10-2007, 21:32
It's a term that refers to godlike characters similar to those found in the works of HP Lovecraft. The most famous example would be Cthulhu. Basically, a cosmic entity so far beyond human comprehension in every way that we are likely to go mad contemplating their motives (or even just looking at them, in some cases).

In 40K, the C'tan were deliberately designed to be Lovecraftian.

Argastes
31-10-2007, 21:37
Old Ones =/= the Slann. The WHFB Lizardman army book makes it explicitly clear that the Slann are the creations of the Old Ones, who arrived on the WHFB world before the beginning of recorded history and created the Slann to be their servants. They also built the Warp Gates at the poles and did a few other things before up and disappearing. The Old Ones are not the Slann.

Indrid Khold
31-10-2007, 21:40
And the Warhammer World is not the 40K Galaxy. At the moment, at least.

As far as I know, there is no 40K background material that says the Slann can't be the Old Ones.

Ktotwf
01-11-2007, 00:15
Really really tired of people trying to make the Slann+Old Ones+40k argument.

Argastes
01-11-2007, 00:28
And the Warhammer World is not the 40K Galaxy. At the moment, at least.

As far as I know, there is no 40K background material that says the Slann can't be the Old Ones.

Umm I think you just provided yet another reason. If the WHFB world is not a part of the 40K galaxy, it is flat-out impossible for the Slann to be the 40K Old Ones, just as it's impossible for Rogal Dorn to be Darth Vader or Eldrad to be Dr. Who.

Although actually, why do you say that it's not in the 40K galaxy? Just because the only hints to that effect come from older editions? That doesn't matter; GW has stated that older editions' fluff is no less "accurate" than current stuff, even if they contradict. So those hints would still be no less valid than any subsequent hints to the contrary (and in fact, I don't even think that any subsequent fluff contains anything that refutes those old hints; can you point to anything?). Now, I'm not saying I like the idea that the WHFB world is in 40k: I think it's quite stupid, actually. But you can't claim that the fluff says it isn't.

Indrid Khold
01-11-2007, 01:09
Okay, first of all, there are Slann in 40K. They are mentioned in passing several times as an ancient race of awesome power. And, as I said before, to my knowledge there has been no 40K fluff that shows they aren't/couldn't-possibly-be the Old Ones.

And secondly, I say that the Warhammer World is not part of the 40k galaxy because GW has categorically said that it isn't. This could change, of course, hence my qualification "at the moment, at least."

And third, there is no such character as "Dr. Who." If you are referring to the protagonist of the show Doctor Who, and I think you are, then you mean "the Doctor." ;)

Argastes
01-11-2007, 01:18
Okay, first of all, there are Slann in 40K. They are mentioned in passing several times as an ancient race of awesome power. And, as I said before, to my knowledge there has been no 40K fluff that shows they aren't/couldn't-possibly-be the Old Ones.

Hasn't it also been explicitly stated that the Old Ones are gone?


And secondly, I say that the Warhammer World is not part of the 40k galaxy because GW has categorically said that it isn't. This could change, of course, hence my qualification "at the moment, at least."

Hmm, I didn't know this. Fair enough.

Indrid Khold
01-11-2007, 01:25
Hasn't it also been explicitly stated that the Old Ones are gone?





I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here, I afraid.


But to answer your question, Xenology (and maybe other bits of backstory, too, I don't know) hints that maybe -- juuust maybe -- there are still Old Ones around. Maybe there are still Slann around, too. Maybe they're the same thing. Nobody knows.

LexxBomb
01-11-2007, 01:31
Okay, first of all, there are Slann in 40K. They are mentioned in passing several times as an ancient race of awesome power. And, as I said before, to my knowledge there has been no 40K fluff that shows they aren't/couldn't-possibly-be the Old Ones.

And secondly, I say that the Warhammer World is not part of the 40k galaxy because GW has categorically said that it isn't. This could change, of course, hence my qualification "at the moment, at least."


firstly the fact that in 40k the slann are called slann means they are not the Old Ones. the name of that race was the "Old Ones". coined by the Necontyr

and secondly im sick and tired of people saying that whfb isn't linked to 40k in fluff when there is a HUGE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THAT SAYS IT IS. So far to be best of my knowledge GW has NEVER PUBLISHED in any of its source/rules/fluff/novels that WHFB is not connected with 40k. every fluff book I seen so far has evidence that the two games are linked. whether it be in the same universe or multiverse.

Argastes
01-11-2007, 01:34
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here, I afraid.


But to answer your question, Xenology (and maybe other bits of backstory, too, I don't know) hints that maybe -- juuust maybe -- there are still Old Ones around. Maybe there are still Slann around, too. Maybe they're the same thing. Nobody knows.

;) For someone who "isn't quite sure" what I'm getting at, you certainly managed to address the point pretty clearly.. Do you really not understand what I am/was getting at?

If not, I'll clarify: I was suggesting that if the Old Ones are extinct, and the 40K Slann are not, then the latter cannot be the former. If it's been hinted that the Old Ones might NOT be extinct, that's cool; it certainly does take the air out of the idea that the Slann could not be the Old Ones because the Old Ones are extinct.

Incidentally, where can I find mention of these 40K Slann which are apparently not analogs to the WHFB Slann?


and secondly im sick and tired of people saying that whfb isn't linked to 40k in fluff when there is a HUGE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THAT SAYS IT IS. So far to be best of my knowledge GW has NEVER PUBLISHED in any of its source/rules/fluff/novels that WHFB is not connected with 40k. every fluff book I seen so far has evidence that the two games are linked. whether it be in the same universe or multiverse.

If I understand Indrid Khold correctly, we know that they are unrelated because some GW representative has explicitly said--like, in a public statement, not in fluff--that they are unrelated. Sort of like how Andy Chambers has to constantly tell people that the Squats aren't coming back every time he gives a Q&A session at a GD or whatever. I don't think Khold was saying that the fluff has said the two universes aren't linked; I think he's saying that GW itself has said so.

LexxBomb
01-11-2007, 01:37
you cant because they are the same species

Argastes
01-11-2007, 01:41
you cant because they are the same species

That doesn't mean they are analogs to each other in their respective game universes, especially if GW has explicitly stated that the game universes are unconnected. Humans in Shakespeare and humans in 40K are also the same species but that doesn't make them "analogs". It sounds like you might be unclear on what an "analog" is in this context.

Indrid Khold
01-11-2007, 01:47
If not, I'll clarify: I was suggesting that if the Old Ones are extinct, and the 40K Slann are not, then the latter cannot be the former. If it's been hinted that the Old Ones might NOT be extinct, that's cool; it certainly does take the air out of the idea that the Slann could not be the Old Ones because the Old Ones are extinct.




Okay, that's what I thought. I think (and, of course, could be wrong) that the status of both the Old Ones and the Slann is "probably extinct but maaaaybe not." As far as where you can read about the 40K Slann, I don't really recall. I think one of the books in the 2nd Edition starter set mentioned them, and I seem to recall a mention in the 3rd Edition rulebook. But if you want specifics, you'll have to ask a wiser fluff chronicler than me.


And @ LexxBomb: You think the Old Ones were called Old Ones when they were young? You think they called themselves "the Old Ones?" Races and civilizations always get called different things by different people at different times.

Also, I acknowledge that the Warhammer World is heavily implied to be part of the 40K galaxy. But as Argastes guessed, GW have officially and explicitly stated that they are different universes in a non-fluff manner.

LexxBomb
01-11-2007, 01:48
maybe but i perscribe to the whfb is linked to 40k as stated before.

fine but have they published it - its a big difference saying to a few people at a Games Day and not publishing it. and it it was official that they aren't linked then why keep publishing tonnes of fluff that basicly says that they are.

everyone is entitled to their opinion and I wont change mine untill GW actually publishes it or at the very least stops publishing fluff that supports my view.

regarding old ones.
when the Necontyr meet the old ones the old ones were not a young race. they had already existed for several millenia. also the life span between an old one and a Necrontyr is huge. the Necrontyr lived for what 30-40 years if lucky and the old ones basicly dont die of old age. an other reason they were called the old ones.

Indrid Khold
01-11-2007, 01:49
As with all things Fluff, you are free to believe whatever the hell you want.

I myself do it all the time! ;)

LexxBomb
01-11-2007, 02:04
its things like whne they made the chaos gods fluff books they hade an empire scribe write about chaos space marines. now if that doesn't show that they are linked I dont know How the fluff gets checked.

Argastes
01-11-2007, 02:48
Like Indrid said, you're free to believe whatever you want about the fluff.... but I think that what the games designers announce IRL is pretty much the final word, and overrides earlier fluff. Andy Chambers and Rick Priestley are the guys who invented 40K and who continue to dictate the basics of the universe in each new codex and edition. 40K is whatever they say it is. When they make about a public announcement about what is or isn't canon (which is what they seem to have done here, even if you try to minimize it by saying it was just something they said to "a few people at Games Day"), then that's that.

And all the fluff linking 40K and WHFB is old; you're wrong when you say they "keep publishing it". AFAIK, the last thing that even hinted of a connection was in the 2nd Edition Chaos Codex, which is now about ten years out of print. If you'll change your mind when GW stops publishing fluff that supports your view, then I'm pretty sure you should have changed it in 1998 when 2nd Edition was replaced by 3rd. The chaos god fluff books you mention, if you're talking about the Realms of Chaos books, are even older and they stopped publishing them even longer ago.

thechosenone
01-11-2007, 03:08
Do you mean the Liber Chaotica. It does have the mad ravings of a guy who sees distant visions that sound a lot like the horus heresy.

LexxBomb
01-11-2007, 03:12
actually i was talking about the four books published by the BL over the last 5 years. they published one for each of the chaos gods. the Liber Chaotica books. the first being published in 2003. and the complete vervion was published 2 years ago. so its still newer than some of the current codexes. and if your going to go down the whole 3rd ed stuff superseeds 2nd Ed or RT then howcome during 3rd and 4th Ed BL was rereleasing books from 2nd ed stuff like the Inquisitor war series. now i know that they showed the Inquisition as completly different from what we have now but that just shows how the storyline evolves. they haven't gone back and said well the Ordo Hydra and Iluminati never existed. at the momemnt the delevopers have said all the fluff ever printed is still valid canon. its just up to your interpretaion.

by your logic the Squats Never Existed
the IronWing never existed

remember all the new fluff adds to the old fluff. none of it has been removed.

Argastes
01-11-2007, 05:40
You're confusing fluff with the real-world statements of the real-world people who created the fictional settings we're talking about. I know new fluff doesn't supercede old fluff; remember, just a few posts ago, I was saying the exact same thing to Indrid.

The fact that 40K and WHFB are separate does not come from any fluff; it comes from Andy Chambers (or whoever) saying "Guys, I invented 40K, and I'm telling you now that it is totally separate from WHFB." You would be correct if early fluff said that they were in the same universe and later fluff said they weren't (although I don't know HOW it would go about saying that). But that's not what happened. Early fluff said they were in the same universe and then GW said, in real life and thus completely above & beyond the fluff-based universe, that the early fluff saying they were in the same universe was non-canon and incorrect.

It is incorrect to say that by my logic, the Squats never existed. Because the Squats were removed from the 40K universe by an "act of fluff" (eaten by the Tyranids) not by GW deciding, completely outside the game universe, that they never existed. If you ask the 40K designers about the Squats, they won't say "they never existed", they'll say that they DID exist but are now gone and will never come back. There's a difference. Same for the Ironwing; unless GW has made a public announcement that the Ironwing is not only gone but never even existed, you can't say that "by my logic they never existed."

Removing a race from existence within the context of the fluff is one thing. Simply "dropping" a group from existence by no longer mentioning it is also one thing. Publicly declaring IRL that two universes are not related is quite another thing. It goes beyond what the fluff says or doesn't say, and gets into the realm of what is said by the real-life game designers about what their game is and isn't. And 40K isn't the same universe as WHFB. GW said so, end of story.

Imperialis_Dominatus
01-11-2007, 06:10
I side with Argastes.

On the topic of Slann: look in your rulebook for once. Page 139. All I will say.

IIRC the Necron Codex never said that the Old Ones were extinct, and Xenology hints at their survival. And it's perfectly acceptable to theorize that the Slann are the Old Ones because there is a situation described in the Necron Codex that proposes a battle between Old One descendants represented by Lizardmen, or Slann. I see no reason to quarrel over this.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
01-11-2007, 07:01
And 40K isn't the same universe as WHFB. GW said so, end of story.

Bah! GW said so! GW aren't the owners of their fluff we the fan base are, as soon as an author publishes a book his 'world' is passed on to the reader for them to interperate however they want to, and it becomes the reader's property.

Liber Chaotica highlights how this has happened in the case of GW, someone created the story, passed it on to someone else and they put their own spin on it. By passing it on to someone else you give them the right to say whatever they want and the view they take of 'your' world(s) is just as justifiable as your own.

Think of 40k as a wiki if you need to.

BTW - did the squats have any gods?

[SD] Bob Plisskin
01-11-2007, 07:09
When they make about a public announcement about what is or isn't canon (which is what they seem to have done here, even if you try to minimize it by saying it was just something they said to "a few people at Games Day"), then that's that.


Sorry but I don't agree with your sentiments here, anecdotal evidence does not weigh up against printed (multiple times) evidence.

LexxBomb
01-11-2007, 09:51
Bob Plisskin;2052853']

BTW - did the squats have any gods?

they had their Ancestors



lol
i cant stop thinking of ourselves as the wizards of the unseen university as we try and argue our points

Argastes
01-11-2007, 13:49
Bob Plisskin;2052862']Sorry but I don't agree with your sentiments here, anecdotal evidence does not weigh up against printed (multiple times) evidence.

You're just deriding it as "anecdotal" (I'm sure someone here could provide a transcript of the statement) because you don't want to accept it as true. When the designers of the setting make a concrete and unambiguous statement about their own setting, such as saying that it's separate from another setting created by the same company, that's not "anecdotal"; that's the final word.

FeetOfClay
01-11-2007, 18:42
How accurate is the Lexicanum?

[SD] Bob Plisskin
01-11-2007, 23:41
You're just deriding it as "anecdotal" (I'm sure someone here could provide a transcript of the statement) because you don't want to accept it as true. When the designers of the setting make a concrete and unambiguous statement about their own setting, such as saying that it's separate from another setting created by the same company, that's not "anecdotal"; that's the final word.

I'm deriding it as anecdotal because the only time I've heard this mentioned is on Warseer! And there is printed evidence to the contray which IMO far outways that evidence. Besides, see my post above the one you quoted, it's not their universe anyway.

Off Topic I know but the real question should be is Fantasy and 40k in the same universe or the same multiverse, Liber Chaotica points to one or the other but they must be one of these in order for that book to make any sense.

Regarding Gods in 40k - it's funny because I don't see any of the 'Gods' as true Gods because they exist, they are just lifeforms of immense power, even the Chaos 'Gods' were created and can theoretically be destroyed. Eldar Gods are talked about as having been on the same plane of existence until a great barrier was set up. I see it of kind of like a Stargate type thing whereby lesser beings view beings of greater power as Gods because they can't comprehend their abilities/technology.

Imperialis_Dominatus
01-11-2007, 23:43
Tell GW's IP protection people it's not their universe... they eat people like you for lunch.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
01-11-2007, 23:51
Tell the people over at the black library forums it's not their universe....

I think I'd make a 3 course dinner not a lunch though.

Imperialis_Dominatus
01-11-2007, 23:54
Ask a lawyer who has true legal ownership of the 40k/Fantasy universe. :p

DantesInferno
01-11-2007, 23:58
Tell GW's IP protection people it's not their universe... they eat people like you for lunch.

Of course it's GW's IP.

But "Death of the Author", and all that.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
02-11-2007, 00:00
Ask a Literary Expert....... (this could go on forever!)

Legal ownership =/= creative ownership

I think we've taken this thread far enough off topic for now....

Argastes
02-11-2007, 02:59
Ultimate creative control, not just legal control, rests in the hands of the guys who created the universe and continue to provide it's core fluff--the design team. Everything else is just fanfic. Other people might have some degree of ancillary creative control insofar as they can write material of their own which adds to the universe, but GW itself still exercises the final word over what is and isn't canon, which has to be considered the most overriding form of creative control because it is essentially ultimate power over what's true in the setting. You can't seriously claim that just because the guys on the BL forum think it's their universe, and get their fanfic-writing panties in a bunch if anyone suggests otherwise, that it therefore really IS their universe rather than Andy Chambers' and Rick Priestley's universe. The guys who created, and continue to provide the core background for, the 40K universe don't need the permission of a bunch of fanfic authors to retcon their own universe. If they chose to say that old fluff never should have been written (perhaps because, oh, let's say, it's silly and ridiculous) and therefore decide to exclude it from the canon, that's their call and it doesn't matter whether the fanfic-writing community likes it or not.

I don't know how much clearer it can be: GW and GW alone decides what is and isn't canon. And to suggest that any other people can overrule GW's statements about what is canon, be they the BL forum posters or anyone else, is laughable.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
02-11-2007, 03:05
Laugh away then!

I guess it's a difference in mind sets.

Argastes
02-11-2007, 03:08
Bob Plisskin;2055412']Laugh away then!

I guess it's a difference in mind sets.

I guess so. I hate to sound like I'm harping on this issue, but I have to ask: Do you really think that GW isn't "allowed" to say what is and isn't canon in their universe, and that the fans have final creative control? I'm not trying to convince you, I'm really just curious. If that's the case, what's to stop the BL forum guys, or other fanfic authors, from writing furries or Darth Vader or Angelina Jolie into the universe?

[SD] Bob Plisskin
02-11-2007, 03:16
nothing but that doesn't mean I'd accept it as canon. There is not one person who decides what is canon, every person decides for themselves, certain sources have different weighting but in the case of the discussion above, explicit implications have been made by GW in both directions (although one is hearsay :P)! It is simply up to the reader to create their own world.

I believe that GW can say what they want but if they expect me to try and intergrate half the conflicting crap together with the nonsensical crap then it's a pretty stupid universe.

sirius16
03-11-2007, 17:41
by the way the laughing god and Cegorach are the same person, Cegorach is just the laughing gods real name

ashendant
25-02-2010, 22:50
I have a question the warhammer 40k wiki mentions three eldar gods which i don't know if their true or not

Cobra God of destruction
Scorpion god of defense
Serpent god of secrets

Do these exist?

Inquisitor Engel
25-02-2010, 23:48
THREADROMANCY!! Hardcore!

Still, I shall indulge.


I have a question the warhammer 40k wiki mentions three eldar gods which i don't know if their true or not

Cobra God of destruction
Scorpion god of defense
Serpent god of secrets

Do these exist?

There's no direct citations to those points so I'm under the distinct impression that they're one of three things - Fan-fiction, misinterpretations (see the Serpent one, below) or so old they're no longer relevant or have been subsumed into other background.

The Icon of Saim-Han is a Serpent. The old Codex: Craftworld Eldar cited it as a creature from Eldar mytholgy (I recall it being pretty clear it's not a god, but a creature from myth) that existed in all times and places and therefore knew all secrets, past and present. - If that original Serpent god isn't pure fan-fiction from the above reference then it's likely that reference was turned into the current iteration in C:CE.

It could be fan-fiction that stems from the themes present in the Aspect Warriors (the Scorpion God of defense springs to mind) or it could be older (from the original Eldar Tome, WD 127 IIRC) background that was integrated into the Aspect Warrior archetypes later on as the Eldar became solidified as a concept and a race.

The "Room of the Gods" in Bill King's 'Farseer' describes a room with HUNDREDS of masks on the walls, each one representing one of the Eldar gods, so it's plausible they're just not mentioned any more but DO "exist."

ashendant
26-02-2010, 00:27
well the only information i can find in that wiki page is:



http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eldar#Other_gods

# Cobra-god/creature of destruction. He does not care whom is caught in his wake
# Scorpion-god/creature of defense, brother of Cobra
# Serpent-god/creature of secrets. Knows all there is to know.

Horus_Lupercal
26-02-2010, 03:50
malevelont replaced the m word..... chaos god to kill chaos gods>>> awesome. spelled his name wrong i know.

jt.glass
26-02-2010, 13:19
Incidentally, where can I find mention of these 40K Slann which are apparently not analogs to the WHFB Slann?Rogue Trader (the old one). Possibly other places since, but certainly there.


jt.

Lord Asgul
01-03-2010, 20:42
In Liber Chaotica: Tzeentch there is a drawing of a Chaos Space Marine in the pages towards the end, his power pack has wings and he is armed with a pair of lightning claws. It also hints at Magnus (the Red Cyclops) who shares his name his an Emperor of the Empire.

Idaan
01-03-2010, 21:54
well the only information i can find in that wiki page is:



http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eldar#Other_gods

# Cobra-god/creature of destruction. He does not care whom is caught in his wake
# Scorpion-god/creature of defense, brother of Cobra
# Serpent-god/creature of secrets. Knows all there is to know.
Scorpion and Cobra are mentioned in the write-up of the Eldar Cobra and Scorpion super-heavy tanks. Probably they're not really gods though, more like divine spirits or allegories of concepts, similar to the Great Hawk and Falcon, which gave names to Swooping Hawks and Falcon gravtanks.

The serpent bit is already covered by Engel.

Jonman
16-04-2010, 18:56
Nurgle supposedly uses Isha (The Eldar's fertility god) to test his diseases and plagues on due to her unique healing abilities...

Scalebug
17-04-2010, 00:02
Pet peeve; People on Warseer claiming "GW has said the universes are not connected".

Nobody ever can come up with a page reference... :P

Although, the only actual line that the Warhammer world is a planet in the 40K universe is, of all places, in the chapter on Chaos Monoliths in Lost and Damned book from 1990...

As have been mentioned above, Liber Chaotica (and the fluff in the 6th ed Warhammer book) puts the current view of the connection as two paralell universes, on "either side of the warp" so to speak.

ashendant
17-04-2010, 00:24
The list misses Qah, the Hrud god that slaanesh made porkchop off and turned him into Umbras.

and Malice the attempt at putting Malal, the one which shall not be named(opps) back into the story

Grimbad
17-04-2010, 02:15
Rogue Trader (the old one). Possibly other places since, but certainly there.


jt.

The fourth edition rulebook had a John Blanche sketch of a red lizard-creature marked "Slanni."

hungryp
17-04-2010, 03:43
I'm gonna necro this post even harder...I seem to recall that even GW can't decide what's cannon and what isn't, flip-flopping over whether BL books are or aren't.

Lowmans
17-04-2010, 09:42
A Slann appears very briefly as a prisoner of the Imperial Fists in the book 'Space Marine' by (I think) Ian Watson.
I'm a bit iffy on the Slaanesh 'killed the Eldar gods' thing. If the gods (warp entities) are created by emotion then the Eldar killed their gods with or without the temptations of Slaanesh. Does it stand to reason that if enough Eldar 'believed' (for want of a better word) those Gods could live again?

dragonet111
17-04-2010, 11:46
orks were created to be workers at first

they were then used for war

I can't remember where I read it bu they were named Krork in the beginning
before the shortage of brainboys.

Idaan
17-04-2010, 11:56
The list misses Qah, the Hrud god that slaanesh made porkchop off and turned him into Umbras.

and Malice the attempt at putting Malal, the one which shall not be named(opps) back into the story

That is because it's a three year old thread someone just resurrected and those didn't exist back then.

jakejackjake
06-02-2014, 14:23
A Slann appears very briefly as a prisoner of the Imperial Fists in the book 'Space Marine' by (I think) Ian Watson.
I'm a bit iffy on the Slaanesh 'killed the Eldar gods' thing. If the gods (warp entities) are created by emotion then the Eldar killed their gods with or without the temptations of Slaanesh. Does it stand to reason that if enough Eldar 'believed' (for want of a better word) those Gods could live again?

I like that idea

and I can see why people think the Slann are the Old Ones http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slann#.UvOnlvldVsU

jareddm3
06-02-2014, 15:42
Wow! A doubled threadomancy for a combined total of SEVEN YEARS!

Stonerhino
06-02-2014, 19:08
Dang it, again I open an old thread made new again. Expecting to see some life/thread changing new information. But again let down.

Fangschrecken
08-02-2014, 01:51
I may be seven years too late, but

ALL PRASIE THE FATHER OF DARKNESS AND FLAME! THE MASTER OF THE FORGE! HASHUT!