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TEMPLARDAWG
30-10-2007, 23:32
I've heard that the new dex will be out soon and everything will change with DE. I'm not sure what to do. I like DE because they are fast and CC is my favorite part of the game. So what should I do, go ahead and start DE or something else? Your thoughts.


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==Me==
30-10-2007, 23:42
DE won't be getting a new Codex for at least a year, and they will get a complete overhaul with rules and models hopefully. If you can't wait, I would suggest models you like and "core" units like Warriors, Incubi, Wyches, and Raiders/Ravagers.

Ozendorph
30-10-2007, 23:42
Personally I'd wait for better models. If you like the current range, then go for it, as it will probably be quite a while before the new dex comes out.

Tymell
30-10-2007, 23:47
Aye, there is a new 'dex on the way it seems, but it's in very early stages, and I'd guess won't be around until late 2008 at the earliest. So it depends on you and how much you think you can wait.

Yes, an update seems likely, but it's quite a ways off yet. With anyone else with that much of a wait I'd probably say just go for it. With Dark Eldar getting such a big update (most likely a complete overhaul on background, rules and most if not entire model range) it might be worth waiting.

If speed and CC is your thing there are other alternatives too of course. Most other forces at least have that option. Maybe a nice Speed Freaks oriented Ork force with their new stuff just around the corner?

TEMPLARDAWG
30-10-2007, 23:47
I was going to use fantasy witches, and maybe eldar guridians for warriors. The new models doesn't bother me, it's the new dex I'm worried about.

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Raven1
31-10-2007, 00:14
I want to have a DE army as well. I decided that I would wait and see. The old 'dex is very old. If it gets change it will be some major changes.

I suggest that you wait for the new stuff, and wither save up or load up on Apocalypse stuff.

Bregalad
31-10-2007, 00:17
No new Codex expected until end of next year. But the "old" Codex is still competitive and wins tournaments. Of course, the DE will change and there will be new miniatures, but depending how you like the current models, it would be useful to get used to current rules until then.

25ofme
31-10-2007, 00:20
best to wait imo

Bloodknight
31-10-2007, 00:44
If you like the current figures, buy 'em 2nd hand for cheap. The army plays still well.

Purgator Sovereign
31-10-2007, 00:58
I am surprised they are even allowed in tournaments, from what I read :rolleyes:

Hokiecow
31-10-2007, 01:33
I am surprised they are even allowed in tournaments, from what I read :rolleyes:

Curious, why do you say that?

The_Outsider
31-10-2007, 01:38
Because msot often "pro" DE players slaughter everyone they encounter.

Iron warrior players/eldar players don't like being 2nd best and petitioned for GW to ban them from all their GT'd.

This is entirely fictional

TheNZer
31-10-2007, 02:44
I want to have a DE army as well. I decided that I would wait and see. The old 'dex is very old. If it gets change it will be some major changes.

I suggest that you wait for the new stuff, and wither save up or load up on Apocalypse stuff.

Yeah as after the new overhaul you amy find that you like the new models better.

TheWarSmith
31-10-2007, 02:47
I like DE because they are fast and CC is my favorite part of the game. So what should I do, go ahead and start DE or something else? Your thoughts.<><

Yes, play Dark ELVES, not eldar. They're much cooler in fantasy.

nightgant98c
31-10-2007, 03:28
On the good side, the models are usually cheap. If you like them, it's a good time to buy.

Orbital
31-10-2007, 03:35
Just to make sure this part is clear: There's no official word from GW at all that there will ever, ever be a new Dark Eldar codex ever.

This is not to say there won't be (cause come on...), but be aware that any claims people make about a new book appearing on any kind of a schedule are based purely on hearsay. They are probably right... but you're left holding the bag if you make a purchase based on hearsay and they're not.

Dais
31-10-2007, 07:33
if the codex is what your worried about you shouldnt have a problem, the DE army is quite strong after the player learns how to best use it. with that said a new codex could make some of your units equipped wrong or a new option may be much better. it would be best to stick with a smaller army until the next codex so you dont end up with redundant units that cost you money.

Kasonic
31-10-2007, 08:12
Get all the vehicles you want. They're awesome and I doubt GW will replace them.

You can definitely wait when it comes to the minis, though.

Kulgur
31-10-2007, 08:49
Just to make sure this part is clear: There's no official word from GW at all that there will ever, ever be a new Dark Eldar codex ever.

This is not to say there won't be (cause come on...), but be aware that any claims people make about a new book appearing on any kind of a schedule are based purely on hearsay. They are probably right... but you're left holding the bag if you make a purchase based on hearsay and they're not.

QFT

Personally I've started mine, I take all rumours with a pinch of salt unless I hear something official as things can always move back or forward in the schedule. I also severely doubt the raider will be replaced (as they're releasing the new box of raider and warriors) as well as incubi (which I've never heard anyone say they hate)

Orbital
31-10-2007, 09:20
I also severely doubt the raider will be replaced (as they're releasing the new box of raider and warriors)...

You mean like the Eldar Jetbikes? :)

the1stpip
31-10-2007, 11:08
Gav Thorpe has said they are going to be working on a new codex, and I doubt the rules will change drastically, as they have said they will never do another 'squats'.

I would be well pissed if they banned them from Gts, I intend taking mine next year. That just sounds like people starting rumours for the sake of it.

Purgator Sovereign
31-10-2007, 13:42
Who exactly started a rumour? That sounds like people misunderstaning things other posters say for fun.

Captain Micha
31-10-2007, 13:50
They are rumored to come out next year as the last release of the year for 40k. As far as I know. I'm holding off myself from buying Eldar, and dark elves (and doing converting for the entire army aside from the raider)

And I could see whiney players petitioning to ban a race from a tournament.. I'm amazed that didn't happen with Tau, on those scarcely terrained boards.

Megad00mer
31-10-2007, 14:27
I'd definitely wait. GW has hinted (numerous times) that the Dark Eldar are being redone next year, probably after the Demon Codex.

Since Dark Eldar haven't been revamped in nearly a decade, I'd expect a major overhaul similar to the treatment the Tyranids got for their 3rd ed. codex.

-Completely new model line
-Pretty extensive rules changes
-New units
-New fluff

I'd bet that you'd regret anything you buy now when you see the spanking new models that GW will be putting out. Don't waste the money. Your patience will be rewarded. ;)

Purgator Sovereign
31-10-2007, 14:37
They are rumored to come out next year as the last release of the year for 40k. As far as I know. I'm holding off myself from buying Eldar, and dark elves (and doing converting for the entire army aside from the raider)


Why Eldar? Weren't they redone last year?

Captain Micha
31-10-2007, 14:38
No, I wouldn't be buying Eldar to have Eldar.. I'd be buying Eldar to convert into -dark- eldar

Purgator Sovereign
31-10-2007, 14:42
Oh, heh, I see.

Captain Micha
31-10-2007, 14:43
indeed... De have some of the ugliest minis known to man! (aside from armor cast titans and super heavies)

Orbital
31-10-2007, 14:48
Some of the things you might want to ask yourself:
- What are the sources of information about the upcoming Dark Eldar codex? It's all fine and well to say this will or won't happen when posting to a rumor thread, but when it comes down to spending real money (a 40k army is pretty expensive, after all) you might want to make sure you can trace some of the claims back to an actual source.
- If the Dark Eldar codex is coming soon... what does "soon" mean? Games Workshop has a strange sense of time, where six months qualifies as "right around the corner". If you want to get playing as soon as possible, you might want to just get yourself a thousand points and start rockin'. If you want this to be a substantial and long-term investment, you may want to hold off.
- How much do you like the models as they stand? If you got them now and painted them up really well, would it hurt all that much if new ones come out? Personally, I'm not fond enough of the DE models that I'd start an army even if new ones were never going to come out. What's your feeling about it? Do you have enough love for the models as they are now that you would be okay with it if they never got an update?

Just food for thought. If you're the guy with the money then you're the guy who has to be satisfied with the answers to these questions.

Ironhand
31-10-2007, 14:49
I'd wait if I were you, mainly because all indications are that he new DE codex is going to be a major re-working of the race, so it's entirely possible units may disappear or unit compositions may change drastically.

The_Outsider
31-10-2007, 15:14
Some of the things you might want to ask yourself:
- What are the sources of information about the upcoming Dark Eldar codex? It's all fine and well to say this will or won't happen when posting to a rumor thread, but when it comes down to spending real money (a 40k army is pretty expensive, after all) you might want to make sure you can trace some of the claims back to an actual source.
- If the Dark Eldar codex is coming soon... what does "soon" mean? Games Workshop has a strange sense of time, where six months qualifies as "right around the corner". If you want to get playing as soon as possible, you might want to just get yourself a thousand points and start rockin'. If you want this to be a substantial and long-term investment, you may want to hold off.
- How much do you like the models as they stand? If you got them now and painted them up really well, would it hurt all that much if new ones come out? Personally, I'm not fond enough of the DE models that I'd start an army even if new ones were never going to come out. What's your feeling about it? Do you have enough love for the models as they are now that you would be okay with it if they never got an update?

Just food for thought. If you're the guy with the money then you're the guy who has to be satisfied with the answers to these questions.


Again Orbital deserves a quoting.

At best DE are at the concept stage (I myself distinctly remeber soemthing said to that effect - but again take it with a pinch of salt). How long is that? could be 3 months, could 8 could be upwards of a year.

Thats not even including playtesting, model resculpts etc.


So IMO if you really like DE start them now - again referring back to Orbital it comes down to how much you like the current models?


All these people claiming "soon" are regurgitating rumours made up by someone else - not a single person outside of GW knows anything solid.

Kulgur
31-10-2007, 18:10
I'd definitely wait. GW has hinted (numerous times) that the Dark Eldar are being redone next year, probably after the Demon Codex.

Since Dark Eldar haven't been revamped in nearly a decade, I'd expect a major overhaul similar to the treatment the Tyranids got for their 3rd ed. codex.

-Completely new model line
-Pretty extensive rules changes
-New units
-New fluff

I'd bet that you'd regret anything you buy now when you see the spanking new models that GW will be putting out. Don't waste the money. Your patience will be rewarded. ;)

Nobody has ever got an entirely new model line

Marinox
31-10-2007, 18:14
Nobody has ever got an entirely new model line

didn't wood elves? i don't really play fantasy that much, but just going off of what i've heard the old timers talking about...

25ofme
31-10-2007, 18:24
Nobody has ever got an entirely new model line

Necrons and almost all of the fantasy armies

Orbital
31-10-2007, 18:36
Necrons and almost all of the fantasy armies

Eldar didn't get a completely new model line, but damn... they got so much that it's easier to count the models they didn't replace than the ones they did.

So... given that the Dark Eldar model range is in even more pain than the Eldar one was, the odds are good that we'll see new models if GW decides to do another codex for them (which I think they will).

Grazzy
31-10-2007, 18:38
I would get the stuff off of ebay cheap. Then you can play for a year with the current competative DE and then update to the new models if they are good and you still liker their style of play.

The_Outsider
31-10-2007, 18:39
Necrons have had new models, old drestroyers were the "armchairs of doom".

Orbital
31-10-2007, 18:40
I'd definitely wait. GW has hinted (numerous times) that the Dark Eldar are being redone next year, probably after the Demon Codex.

Just want to clarify that sometimes we make the mistake of thinking that when a GW employee says something that means they are speaking for GW. It makes sense that they should and would be, but it's not so. There are many, many times that GW employees will talk about upcoming projects and plans and be entirely wrong. It's not even unusual for two different employees (and I'm talking about game devs here) to contradict each other. It's weird, it's a little hard to explain, but it's not unusual.

If GW is going to hint or suggest anything in an official way (meaning in a way that you can count on) it'll happen in Games Day during a presentation, on the website, or in another arena where GW employees are acting in a professional capacity. The chat you have over slurpees with Gav Thorpe or Phil Kelly is not the same as GW speaking to you; they're just people, and people make a lot of mistakes, even if they tell you they know what they're talking about.

Fist full of Pills
31-10-2007, 19:08
wait for it

burning crome
31-10-2007, 19:42
Taking about cheap I picked up three lot of 40 warrior models for about 7 each (so 23 after postage) about two years ago on e-bay. I have no idea what I’m going to do with them even now but at less than 25p each you can't complain.
PS I picked up the codex after this little find and I’ve got two questions the first is that it's an old book have the whcye weapon rules changed since their a bit lame in this version (you get three specials weapon with different rules per squad)
And I also got a heavy weapon type thing which came with the 40k box dose any one have4 the rules for it??

CherryMan
31-10-2007, 20:03
after the orks, another campaign book will be released (as i have understood it throu ruomors) and after that the DE will be released, hopefully with new models...
I would seriusly hope for this great team to make a huge comeback, simply becaus i like them! But knowing GWs cheep tricks and tactics i wouldnt be supriced by a compleate "lets repacage these old minis in new boxes?? its brilliant!!"...

i would have to say, if u like the hole cosept of DE, and have an idea of what u whant. Go for it!.. anything is possible with some conversion work.

TEMPLARDAWG
31-10-2007, 22:50
I got the idea to call GW and see what they had to say about it. The guy that I talked to at Direct said that there was nothing real soon. It would be released in the next 3 years. Talking to this person is probably no better than talking to a Redshirt at the local store though.

<><

cinera
31-10-2007, 23:49
Do it!
to be honest, i think some of the DE models are alright...
i like the warriors, the raider based vehicles and the Incubi.
the Wyches and biker squads are alright.
Mandrakes, Grotesques, Hellions, Lords and heamonculi are awful.

but, no one really uses Mandrakes and Grotesques at the moment, Hellions arent that useful, the female lord is alright, but its easy to convert your own.
and the Heamonculus' well... ill leave it at that.

The rules for the DE are hard to get to grips with, but they can become very nasty after a few test games.

the1stpip
01-11-2007, 00:58
I don't doubt there will be new models, but I wouldn't expect them for up to 18 months. What I wouldn't expect is a total re-working of the range and fluff.

They will update the fluff, they will bring new spanking stuff, but the older stuff would still be usable.

They are a fun army, and once you learn how to play them, people will fear playing you.

Go for it.

Orbital
01-11-2007, 01:22
Do it!
to be honest, i think some of the DE models are alright...
i like the warriors, the raider based vehicles and the Incubi.
the Wyches and biker squads are alright.
Mandrakes, Grotesques, Hellions, Lords and heamonculi are awful.

but, no one really uses Mandrakes and Grotesques at the moment, Hellions arent that useful, the female lord is alright, but its easy to convert your own.
and the Heamonculus' well... ill leave it at that.

The rules for the DE are hard to get to grips with, but they can become very nasty after a few test games.

I'm not claiming to be a hard guy to beat or anything, but... the only army I'm *truly* afraid of on the table is Dark Eldar. I start sweating before the first turn is played 'cause I know what they can do in the hands of a competent general.

The_Outsider
01-11-2007, 02:05
Dark Eldar > all when played properly.

Its a common misconception that they suck simply because they are unpopular.

While DE struggle vs some armies with a "standard" buidl they completly destroy marines.

Indrid Khold
01-11-2007, 02:29
While DE struggle vs some armies with a "standard" buidl they completly destroy marines.


Lord almighty do they ever! I honestly feel bad when I play against Space Marines sometimes, especially in CoD games.

Bloodknight
01-11-2007, 03:39
Lord almighty do they ever! I honestly feel bad when I play against Space Marines sometimes, especially in CoD games.

Signed. On a table with a lot of terrain you just walk over them. Games againt Guard are harder because they can throw 20 or 30 guys at your wyches.

Devari
01-11-2007, 03:52
I've heard that the new dex will be out soon and everything will change with DE. I'm not sure what to do. I like DE because they are fast and CC is my favorite part of the game. So what should I do, go ahead and start DE or something else? Your thoughts.


<><


I was going to use fantasy witches, and maybe eldar guridians for warriors. The new models doesn't bother me, it's the new dex I'm worried about.

<><

If you like the existing models and don’t feel a need to wait for resculpts then I would recommend starting a force instead of waiting. I wouldn't worry too much about the rules changes because units that are good under the current rules are still going to be good even if the rules are revised somewhat. For example, you're definitely going to be using incubi, warriors and raiders because they're still going to be excellent units even if the rules change slightly. A few units like wyches currently have some rather unique rules (such as wych weapons) that might change significantly, but most of the units will probably remain very similar. If you like the current models then I'd suggest starting a force rather than waiting because it could still take several years before the Dark Eldar get a new codex.

In terms of how the army works I play against Dark Eldar routinely as one of my main opponents (the other army I fight routinely is Chaos Marines) so I have quite a bit of experience fighting them. If you like thinking tactically and setting your army up for assaults then you will definitely like playing Dark Eldar. They have what is probably the most effective assault army in the game because of their assault squads and transports. Archons are ridiculously deadly in assaults and incubi are probably the most effective close combat troops in the game because of the combination of power weapons, high initiative and 3+ saves. Raiders are cheap, fast transports that carry a full squad of troops, a heavy weapon and are open-topped, which is extremely useful when deploying for an assault. The combination of Archon + Incubi + Raider will destroy virtually any squad in close combat. Basic Dark Eldar warriors are also very effective troops (probably the most effective troops in the game for the points) because of good stats, low point cost and excellent weapon options. Blasters and dark lances are excellent for anti-tank firepower and splinter cannons are great for anti-infantry firepower. The only disadvantage to the Dark Eldar is that they can't take much damage. Raiders need to be hidden from sight to protect them and your basic troops will fall quickly to bolter fire. However, your warriors are usually numerous and well-equipped enough to threaten most of your opponent’s forces, which gives you the time to position your assault squads where they are needed most. If you can keep your transports protected until they're needed you can completely decimate an enemy force in an assault.

I’ve fought Dark Eldar with various armies and I've found that a Dark Eldar army can be used very effectively against any opponent because the army is versatile enough to perform well against a wide range of targets (particularly the warriors which can be equipped with enough splinter cannons, blasters and dark lances to handle anything). However, certain armies are definitely easier to fight than others. For example, you might expect Dark Eldar to massacre Tau easily in close combat but I've actually found that I generally do best against Dark Eldar using my Tau simply because I have enough mobility and firepower to keep them from reaching my lines. I can handle the warrior squads with my firewarriors, stealth teams and railgun submunitions and I can hunt down and stop the transports with my hammerheads and crisis suits. I use my firewarriors in a firing line so it's not like I run around the board trying to avoid the Dark Eldar either, it's just that my Tau usually have enough firepower and mobility to stop the army before they can inflict enough damage. On the other hand, my Grey Knights tend to be the least effective against Dark Eldar because they're a particularly low model count army and the Dark Eldar have enough disintegrators, dark lances, blasters, incubi with power weapons, etc., to take down my small number of expensive troops very quickly. My Marines and Eldar are both roughly evenly matched against Dark Eldar but for different reasons. My marines tend to do fairly well because they have good firepower and can take a considerable amount of damage, which tends to even out the Dark Eldar advantages of speed and numbers. My Eldar, on the other hand, have always been very amusing against Dark Eldar primarily because the two armies are surprisingly evenly matched in most respects. Since both Eldar armies are T3 I've found that the battle can change very quickly with one unit completely wiping out another unit only to be decimated itself on the next turn. So Dark Eldar will generally do well against most armies but they do take some practice to get used to their strengths and weaknesses. Once you learn to get the most from their speed and close combat ability, however, you can use them very effectively against any other army. When the new codex is eventually released I expect that certain options will be updated and revised but the army will most likely remain basically the same in terms of overall playing style.