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MrWoten
31-10-2007, 06:29
I have a fluff concern about my army, the Eldar.

After reading the Guardians portion of the codex I am to understand that Guardians are rarely ever mobilized unless the Craftworld or maiden world in question is under direct and unavoidable attack. Does this mean that any aspiring Farseers or Autarches moving about with his Craftworld ( or otherwise ) fleet primarily utilizes his small, select groups of Aspect Warriors? This bugs me because it could mean that Guardians, the models I have in great excess for my Eldar army, are fluff-wise only ever brought to bare under strenuous circumstances that the Eldar in general try to avoid. Now at this point some folks would tell me to just shut up and play the game but I am left unsettled knowing that this might ruin any thoughts I have at writing fluff in the future for my Eldar force. You could also say I am being cheesy or beardy because Guardians are 'teh sux' in the new codex, not so for me as I make extensive use of Wraithlords so a Spiritseer on a cheap Guardians squad is invaluable to me, with Aspect Warriors especially Dire Avengers being fielded heavily in a lot of competitive lists.

So I unload this belly full of bile at your feet. What do you guys have to say? I want to play something that is fun and can have fluff worked around it and while Guardians work to my strengths it's a dull brick kind of force.

Chilltouch
31-10-2007, 06:54
I believe Ulthwe uses its Guardians for various offensive functions but other than Guardians are most just civilian militia.

Ktotwf
31-10-2007, 06:57
The Eldarial Guard.

Rodman49
31-10-2007, 07:07
I believe Ulthwe uses its Guardians for various offensive functions but other than Guardians are most just civilian militia.

Correct, Guardians are kind of the Eldar equivalent to Conscripts. Rarely used unless circumstances demand the extra bodies. Aspect Warriors are the soldiers of the Eldar, all of them just happen to be specialized - such is the Eldar way.

Ulthwe in contrast tend to use many Guardians because they have a disproportionate amount of individuals who go down the Psyker rather than warrior path and because of their proximity to the eye of terror. Actually last edition Ulthwe had "Black Guardians" who had BS4 (or WS4 if Storm Guardians) because they mobilized so many more Guardians and had more extensive Guardians training programs. I was really hoping they would bring back Black Guardians in a datasheet for apoc . . .

chromedog
31-10-2007, 07:57
Hardly conscripts. They are former soldiers who now walk another path (non war). Think of them as 'retired', but under a 'reserve activation clause'. Their previous martial skills are still of use, and due to the disassociation all eldar practice to keep themselves sane, CAN ONLY be called upon if they are called up to fight and they don the armour of the warrior.

At least, this is how it was up to 2nd ed. If GW have retconned it so that they were never soldiers, and are conscripts instead - then I'll stand corrected.

zealot!
31-10-2007, 09:54
black guardians are counts-as dire avengers now! :) check out my fluff in my sig for ideas on guardians!

IJW
31-10-2007, 10:23
Hardly conscripts. They are former soldiers who now walk another path (non war).
[...]
At least, this is how it was up to 2nd ed. If GW have retconned it so that they were never soldiers, and are conscripts instead - then I'll stand corrected.
No retconning required - Guardians were described as non-warriors with some training back in WD127 when Craftworld Eldar were introduced. The ones who had been Aspect Warriors became officers.
In the 2nd ed codex it was just 'all Eldar are trained to fight' with no mention of having been Aspect Warriors.
In the 3rd ed only Storm Guardians are described as having been Aspect Warriors in the past.

Gorbad Ironclaw
31-10-2007, 10:29
Yes, the way I see it, the 'common' Eldar army that you would see is much closer to the Biel-tan list from Codex: Craftworld than one where Guardians are troops. Aspect Warriors really are the most common troops employed, Guardians are only brought in if there is a need for extra man(eldar)power and the Aspect Warriors alone can't deal with the situation. They will be deployed in support in most larger conflicts I imagine, but for small skirmishes and the like, it seems to me that it will almost exclusivly be Aspect Warriors that's deployed.

So yes, IMO, the Eldar Codex lets you take far to many Guardians compared to how many Aspect warriors you can field. But that's because the 'elite' troops really are the core of the eldar army, and the 'grunts' are the additional support brought in if the situation requires it.

SV_Harlequin
31-10-2007, 12:43
They are used in a similar function to High Elf Spears/Archers. Each Eldar is required to have training to defend their Craftworld, those that excel/want to/feel train more and then either go onto one of the Aspects etc.

Biel-Tan has the most Aspect Warriors therefore a Biel Tan army will usually just be a Aspect Army unless in times of Defence of the Craftworld or any Biel-Tan World in which case the Guardians are called up.
Ulthwe because of their limited shrines use Guardians as a standing army, you'd get everyone as regular Guardians but then you will have only a few Aspects most most after training as a Guardian would become a Black Guardian and become a permanant Soldier.

Something that I have seen beofre is if a invasion/retaking of a Planet is involved the Attacking/invasion force would be the Aspect Army and once the planet is subdued/pacified a guardian force would be used to defend the planet where the Aspects have gone of to wage war somewhere else. This is most likely Biel-Tan only though as they have an aggressive policy of retaking former Eldar Worlds.

thearchiver
31-10-2007, 13:06
The fact that your army is fighting SM/Nid/Necros ect the direct and unavoidable attack check box has already been ticked

boogaloo
31-10-2007, 21:15
fluff wise guardians are the backup on average. However on worlds like ulthwe, there, just isn't enough aspect support to form a whole army, so fluff wise a gurdian heavy army is not undo-able... LONG LIVE THE GUARDIANS!!!! man they should totally have a guardian Special character, lol WS4 BS4 S4 T4 I5 W2 A2 LD9 Sv4+ HA HA HA! if you add 1 to every stat line on the guardians they're still not as good as marines.

elvinltl
01-11-2007, 02:10
I agree it is still possible. Maybe a 1.5k Ulthwe list could consist of Eldrad and another Farseer. 3 WaveSerpents loaded with 10 Storm Guardians each, cheap and terrifying especially when you unload 30 and shower 60 Shirukens on a doomed squad. Then Use 1 squad to charge and embark the other 2 squads back into the WaveSerpent while you wait for your CC aspects to fleet there happily and mop up the mess.

Rinse and repeat with the other 2 squads.

Rodman49
01-11-2007, 12:37
black guardians are counts-as dire avengers now! :)

This a house rule or actually suggested by GW?

LordXaras
01-11-2007, 17:37
I have a fluff concern about my army, the Eldar.
Since this is a fluff debate in army structure, it would help to know what Craftworld your army comes from. There are often ways to mold the background to fit your army, but sometimes it can be less of a stretch (if you have your own Craftworld, for example).

Kymar
01-11-2007, 18:06
much like thearchiver wrote, every battle that the eldar have is of dire importance and such guardians will always be called upon for service. With their relatively low number and extreme specialization, aspect warriors would not be able to carry out the mundane (but important) tasks required in a war situation. Logistics and resupply, long term static defence of key facilities, escorts for of non-com units (like bonesingers), and don't forget "Guard" duty ;)

zealot!
01-11-2007, 18:28
This a house rule or actually suggested by GW?

....

it was suggested. by my mind. (they have the same wargear and a one better save. why NOT?)

boogaloo
01-11-2007, 18:36
"Wow, is it already time for this month's installment of "What Scale is 28mm: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Pumpkin Heads and Mitten Hands" ? -Cosmotiger of TMP "

LOL WTF! Just please tell me what models this is about

LordXaras
01-11-2007, 18:43
"Wow, is it already time for this month's installment of "What Scale is 28mm: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Pumpkin Heads and Mitten Hands" ? -Cosmotiger of TMP "

LOL WTF! Just please tell me what models this is aboutOff-Topic. Handle in PMs, please.

Direhamster
01-11-2007, 19:21
much like thearchiver wrote, every battle that the eldar have is of dire importance and such guardians will always be called upon for service. With their relatively low number and extreme specialization, aspect warriors would not be able to carry out the mundane (but important) tasks required in a war situation. Logistics and resupply, long term static defence of key facilities, escorts for of non-com units (like bonesingers), and don't forget "Guard" duty ;)

-they cook soup
-they push the platform
-they set up tents
-they run errands for aspects
-they peel potatoes for the rest of the army
-they pull out stupid, lame jokes like shouting "Alert! Alert!" in the middle of the night while on guard duty, and nothing is actually going on
-they often get in trouble and find themselves in need of a rescue
-they hardly know what is going on and simply make it more difficult for professionals to do their job

That would summarize glorious field accomplishment history of Guardians I field. :D

-Oh, they also tre in amazement at the Avatar, so they don't run.

cheers

Direhamster