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Neesh
31-10-2007, 19:55
Hi y'all!

At a tournament that has just gone I have faced an issue of rules interpretation, concerning this little paragraph from the rules on fighting an assault in a building:

"If characters, champions, or OTHER models that can normally be singled out if they are in base contact, are involved in the fight, up to a unit strength of 5 of enemy models fighting may choose to attack them."

To my logic, this deals with a situation when such a model is a part of a unit fighting in an assault, meaning that it can be singled out from the entirity of the unit. The question is, what happens when a solitary character engages a unit in a buidling - can a total of US 10 attack him, or is it limited to US 5 as per the above quotation?

And one more question: if a character is not among the US 10 chosen to fight, can he be attacked by models from among the US 10 chosen by the opponent or not ?

Cheers!

theunwantedbeing
31-10-2007, 20:09
If the character is being singled out within a unit upto us5 may attack him.
If he is on his own then upto us10 may fight against him.

Atrahasis
31-10-2007, 20:35
I disagree, regardless of how many models acompany the character, he is still a model that could "normally be singled out".

DeathlessDraich
31-10-2007, 20:47
Hi y'all!
And one more question: if a character is not among the US 10 chosen to fight, can he be attacked by models from among the US 10 chosen by the opponent or not ?


Unwanted has already answered your questions but may I add the tactic you could have adopted:

If a single character assaults a unit in a building, it is best that he fights in a challenge (if the unit in the building has at least a champion).

If the defending unit is US10 or less, then this particular challenge *cannot* be refused.
(The 'may' and 'could' in the rules causes problems though.)

T10
31-10-2007, 22:16
I disagree, regardless of how many models acompany the character, he is still a model that could "normally be singled out".

Is it your opinion that a single character will only fight up to US 5 worth of enemies?

-T10

explorator
31-10-2007, 22:23
The rule suggests to me that if a single character charges into a building he may only be attacked by enemy models with a maximum of unit strength 5.

Atrahasis
01-11-2007, 00:17
Is it your opinion that a single character will only fight up to US 5 worth of enemies?No, that only US5 woth of enemies will fight him ;)

T10
01-11-2007, 09:43
And if the building was occupied by a single non-character model, such as a Gorger?

-T10

Atrahasis
01-11-2007, 12:41
And if the building was occupied by a single non-character model, such as a Gorger?A gorger is also a model that could normally be singled out.

Festus
01-11-2007, 14:37
Hi

For what it is worth, I completely agree with Atrahasis. US5 it is.

Festus

Spoonie
01-11-2007, 19:25
I would have to say that the Gorger is definatly not a model that can be "singled out". If you're fighting against it, you can direct your attacks against it, but that's different than singling out a model. I'd have to read over all the assosciated rules, but my gut feeling says it applies only to characters or champions in units, since that's the only time a model can be "singled out".

Festus
01-11-2007, 19:43
You are wrong.
It applies to any model which is not an r'n'f model. Thus it will not apply to regimental standards and/or musicians for example.

It will apply to characters, champions, models in units of 1 (usually monsters).

Festus

eldrak
01-11-2007, 22:20
So only one ogre at a time can fight a character? That sucks for them if they're trying to hold a house against a killy character

oop
01-11-2007, 22:55
Ogres do not come in units of 1...so they all could fight

Atrahasis
02-11-2007, 01:16
You miss eldrak's point - if a lone character charges into a building full of ogres, only one ogre gets to fight him.

DeathlessDraich
02-11-2007, 10:06
There is a difference between *being singled out* and fighting *singly*.

A lone model is not *being* singled out "normally". He is already single.

"Up to" 5 or 10 models "could" fight - a mistake (in the choice of words) in my opinion as it is a direct contravention of the combat rules - all models that can fight , must fight.

Atrahasis
02-11-2007, 12:49
There is a difference between *being singled out* and fighting *singly*.If two gorgers charge a unit, troops must decide which one their attacks are going to harm - they must single out one or the other.

DeathlessDraich
02-11-2007, 16:02
1) The thread is about buildings and it would be a natural assumption that all rules references here pertain to building rules.

2) 2 Gorgers are 2 units and cannot assault a building.

Festus
02-11-2007, 16:12
In an assault on a building, no troops may be *normally* singled out, so this point is moot and nothing but a smoke bomb...

Festus

Atrahasis
02-11-2007, 16:24
As Festus rightly points out, references in the building rules to what is "normal" must refer to combat outwith buildings, otherwise the rules are self-referential and don't tell us anything at all.

DeathlessDraich
02-11-2007, 17:33
In an assault on a building, no troops may be *normally* singled out, so this point is moot and nothing but a smoke bomb...

Festus

?? point??

Atrahasis
02-11-2007, 18:06
His point is how can the "normally" in the sentence "models that can normally be singled out" be referring to in-building combat if it is telling us how to handle in-building combat?

If it is as you say, then the rules don't tell us anything at all.

ZomboCom
04-11-2007, 20:30
Another interesting example would be salamanders in a building. If there was only one skink left only US5 could attack him, but if there were 2 or more then it wouldn't be singling out, so all attacks could go against them.

Urgat
04-11-2007, 20:51
Can ogre sized models occupy a building? It never even occured to me that I could... Can't find anything that would prevent it, indeed...

Atrahasis
04-11-2007, 22:30
Another interesting example would be salamanders in a building. If there was only one skink left only US5 could attack him, but if there were 2 or more then it wouldn't be singling out, so all attacks could go against them.

Another reason to use the M&H rules for salamanders, as Gav Thorpe would have us do.

DeathlessDraich
05-11-2007, 08:21
Urgat: Ogres are infantry. Any infantry unit can occupy a building.

On Salamanders:
They cannot enter a building if Salamanders are still present in the unit since they are Monsters.

I'll still differentiate between fighting 'singly' and 'being singled out' but enough has been said on this matter.