PDA

View Full Version : am i going back?



nurgle_boy
08-09-2005, 21:23
ok, as some of you know (or dont know) im home schooled for various reasons, including depression and anxienty, and generaly not enjoying school at all, for various reasons, mostly sparked by the problems though.

ive not been in school for almost a year now, apart from twice, when there was no-one around, and i had to go in for meeting, the first time i did so, i managed to twiddle the button on my shirt sleeve (nerves) untill it broke, and carry on untill i diddnt have any buttons left, and i went in for anohter meeting just a week or 2 ago.

ive not been feeling as depressed lately, and have been able to go out of the house and get the bus to my local store (GW bath feels safe. its the only place other than with friends, and home that does.) and just the other week, i managed to walk in, which made me feel great.

also, ive got what im doing for my GCSE's now, and a lot of it cant be covered by home tutors, including the 4GCSE IT course, photography, and graphics.

the last meeting i had at the school, which as i said, was just last week, i wasnt so nervous, and only twiddled one button to the point of almost falling off (it fell off in the car, after the meeting), and during the meeting, i met the new CWO (child welfare officer) and we discussed my going back to school.

ive dwecided to go into shchool, although only an empty room, to have a lesson with my tutor next tuesday, and i feel it should be ok, and after this ill be going in to do photography, as its only a single class, once or twice a week, with only 11 others in, and i wont have to wear uniform for it or anything.

that should be ok, even though thre are a handfull of chavvy idiots in the group, who will no doubt have a go at me for not being in school for a year, but if they say anything, i can just leave, or get them to leave.

but heres where the problem is.

it feels like after i go in for a few photography lessons, theyle probebly expect me to go in for other lessons as well.
i think the IT may be ok, as two good friend are in the group, and i can work with computers fne, but other lessons, i dont think ill ever be able to do, liek the english, maths and science, as well as the other bigger lessons.

i dont do well in big lessons. i get distracted by the noise, lose concentration, and get bad grades, or it just gets to much, and ill go into a slump of depression again, which isnt good. (sucide considering not good :()

and i think people might get disipointed if i dont go in again.

i know they all say "oh, it doesnt matter if you dont go in again, but wed really like you to" but it might just be paranoia but it feels like the expect me to go in for full time again...

i really have no idea why im posting this, other than i need a little comforting...
i could talk to my mum, but she just says to do whatever im happy with, and the thing is, i dont know twhat to do!
i could talk to the EWO, but hed just treat me like some kid, and try to get me back again...
same with my tutors...

so i come to this forum...
i spend a lot of time here, and i dont know a lot of you in person, so i find it easier to post things like this.

i just need some reinforcement ,sort of, and some advice, and comforting, as im worried, and as odd as it sounds, even a little scared of it...

ah, im probebly babbling now as im done spewing my problems and feeling all up into random musings, but thats pretty much my situation...

it feels better to have it all off my chest anyway, although my fingers hurt from all this typing...

well, thanks for listning/reading. posting here means that at least someone will see whats going on, and ill know that someone out there has the time to read what i post :)

Wez
08-09-2005, 21:44
Go into school.

There's nothing more I can say really. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. If it's still bad after a few weeks, then maybe quit. School is going to be better than sitting at home all day imo.

What do you intend to do in the future (16+) by the way?

Either way, this isn't the right place for advice imo.

-Wez

Wolf Scout Ewan
08-09-2005, 21:48
Hey NB.

I spent 3 years of being miserable in school. School does not cater for those with mins of their own, instead its catering to the herd. School isnt about expanding and developing young minds... its about controlling them and downloading crap into your young mind. Teachers are people with Uni degrees, big freaking deal... most are arrogant fools.

My suggestion, is to give them the finger! School isnt for everyone... school does not make everyone a well rounded person. Find your own way, find a way that doesnt make u depressed and anxious.

Honestly, if schooling makes u feel ill, then tell them, tell this ***** CWO how it makes u feel, and that it would be infringing on your human rights to make u endure the torture of going back into school. Talk to your doctor, tell him how it REALLY makes u feel, pull no punches. If school makes u ill then tell them, dont let them make you go back.

If they do... then... well... thats something we would have to discuss in private. Staying in school when it makes u ill will affect you later... trust me.

tzeentchgiant
08-09-2005, 22:02
Go in for the one class, assess what you like about it, and progress from there.

Do what you can in school, but never suffer from going in just to be there, fall back into home schooling if it causes far less stress, and your grades are clearly better.

All up to you, but you can't know now, what you will in eight weeks into your lessons, so re-assess, to continue in school, progress into different classes, or move back into part time home schooling, which from your tone, seems to be very effective for you.

TG

Adlan
08-09-2005, 22:09
I hope things ge better for you nurgle boy, school can be abit crap.
I'd say to them, I'm not going to go to lessons i don't feel comfortable with, I'm going to go to ones I need specialised teacher knowlegde. Most (insert ones you want to skip) can be taught by (whoever is teaching you) at home. where i can concentrate.

I know school can be tough, I've been suspended once, and teachers often get pissed off at me (maily because I do all the work and then muck about, instead of doing badly then improving, so they can take credit). I hope you find things getting better soon.

nurgle_boy
08-09-2005, 22:11
heh, well, theres 3 very different views...

wez-im gona go in for this one, and maybe a photography lessson, and see if they work out.

as fior what i plan to do, 16-17 get a ****** job, earn enough cash to buy minis, leech off others, and make money selling models on ebay. 18+ id like to either work with kids (4-6yr olds), do something with computers (a little boring) or do what id really like to do, and open up an indy retailer in bath. with only gw and the odd shop that sells airfix, itd be nice to get another decent sized ghobby store in the city

Ewan- erm, i can tell your fiery and zelous... you scare me a little...
i see what your getting at in the first part, but ive already said that school doesnt qwork for me and does make me feel ill and depressed, but its all about 'getting me back to normal' although the thing is, that would stop me from being an individual.
i guess your right in a lot of ways...

TG- i think i may have to follow your advice. just see how stuff goes, and just, sort of, coast along with what feels right... i guess if i dont ever get back apart from the odd lesson, it wouldnt matter. if anything, whilst being tutored at home has improved my grades... so i guess having the odd lesson in a smal group would improve even more, and get me into the real world... sort of...

thanks for the comments. people on forums that youve never met in real life, are sometimes better and eisier to talk to than those youve known throughout your life...

Wolf Scout Ewan
08-09-2005, 22:16
Find your own way bro.

Do what feels right.

nurgle_boy
08-09-2005, 22:16
Adlan- thats pretty much what i do... get it all done, then screw around...

do you by any chance have the ability to put little or no effort into things and come out on top?

also, its the group idiots that get to me as well...anyway, thanks adlan...

*yawns* ack.. 23:18.. i need some sleep...

tzeentchgiant
08-09-2005, 22:20
Good night Nurgle boy, but before you go, consider how you get on at school, and think about if it is worth forcing it onto yourself, just for the sake of a few.

It is your decision, and don't be forced to make it too soon, or prematurely, without the thought this justifies, in terms of your education, happyness, and unltimaely well being.

I'm sure, when you need to, you'll make the right choice for you,

TG

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
08-09-2005, 22:45
I am one of those people who does nothing in class but sleep and chill out and i always get A's and B's....and people hate me for it. They think ive got it easier than everyone else...and i do :P

I think that you can decide for yourself. Youre about my age (16) and i know for a fact you can handle yourself...no one can tell you what is best for you except you! But remember....takin risks is a good thing.

In my opinion, take some classes in-school, and then take the rest at home. Take photo and IT at school with math, science, etc, at home (if thats possible...they allow it here in the US, im assuming its allowed in the UK.)

Whatever road you take, grasshopper, may buddha help you find fortune.

P.S.- When you add the abbreviations for the united states and the united kingdom you get USUK....U SUK! Hah! That ones a real kneeslapper...

Yodhrin
08-09-2005, 23:56
Go into school.

There's nothing more I can say really. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. If it's still bad after a few weeks, then maybe quit. School is going to be better than sitting at home all day imo.

What do you intend to do in the future (16+) by the way?

Either way, this isn't the right place for advice imo.

-Wez

I disagree. Like NB school took a heavy toll on me mentally when I was younger, between the usual stresses and strains that the environment itself creates and a few additional pressures(like bloody inept teachers who ignore people getting death threats), I dropped out before I even took the most basic exams.

I pottered around for a year or so, had a few part-time jobs, and eventually went to college. I scraped together some qualifications and will be starting my degree course next year after I put some cash together. My point is that these days, School is no longer a necessary part of a person's life. If you are one of the people who is just incompatible with the School system, there are more options available.

NB - Home schooling is fine, and if it works for you stick to it as much as is possible, however make sure you are getting enough contact with the outside world. Shutting yourself off is never a good idea.

College worked for me, and it may for you too. Enquire about courses at your local colleges, most have started already, but if you display aptitude in a subject they often let you on to a Fast Track course starting in January and lasting for six months or so. It offers you the social benefits and qualifications that you would gain from a school, but without many of the pressures and strains. Classes are small, the "sheep" mentality, although present, is far less pronounced than in a school, and they generally offer a far wider choice of subjects than you can get from a normal GCSE/Standard Grade level of education.

In the end, it's up to yourself, just inform yourself on all the options, test the waters and make a decision when you feel ready. You just have to remember that there are second chances, if you choose to go back to school and it's a disaster, dont loose heart, just try a different avenue of approach.

The Dragon Reborn
09-09-2005, 05:41
school is for fools!

ironduke
09-09-2005, 08:35
If you never try,you will never know. Thats my motto also the songs "whatever will be will be..."
But enough of me this is about you. Take the class with your friends in it, see how it goes. If it turns out to be bad its no biggy just stop going and if you like it then bonus!

Good luck anyway in whatever you do.

I admit the school enviroment is not the best to work in especially GCSE downwards but when i got into sixth form i loved it. You were treated as adults you could have a laugh with the teachers (we even went out drinking regularly with our form tutor. Though not in school hours :rolleyes: )
Thats a mute point considering my a-level results :eek:

Shadowheart
09-09-2005, 09:11
I also left school, it was depressing as all hell. A routine of wasting time on a daily basis in an often uncomfortable environment. It didn't help that we were the first year subjected to a new system of education, which was a shoddy concept to begin with and implemented with characteristic incompetence. The best and most enjoyable teachers I had were the ones the system restricted most severely.
It wasn't that school was hard, it made no attempt to be hard. Certainly not when it came to subjects I found interesting, like history and literature. We've never had to write a decent paper, and the sum total of literary works we've had to read is utterly laughable. The only class that was an unexpected challenge was drama, because you had to actually do something while you were there. But then there's only so much they could do with three hours a week for two years, with a good dozen people in the class.

Concider what you're putting into school, in terms of time, work, stress and worrying. Concider also what you'r getting out of it, how much you learn, how much fun and interaction you have with your fellow students. Personally I found that school was a shameful waste of time, I just wish I had realised or admitted that a lot earlier.

There's no shame in stepping out of society's regular pattern. Sure, people will hassle you about it, but if you're not comfortable with your life it's better to change something about it. If you're going to get yourself caught in a routine, at least make it one that doesn't get you down.
Social contact may be important, but maybe you don't need that much of it. At the moment I've only got two friends in "real life" I see once a week or so (in addition to a very good friend/former girlfriend I chat with regularly), but we can talk about as openly as guys tend to manage, and it's quite enough for me. I'm much more comfortable being alone than I am hanging around people I don't care for.

I'd say go back in at least for the photography class. It's another experience, another challenge to learn from, whether it works out or not. Make it clear to others and yourself that if you don't go back to school, it's because you don't want to, or because you can't, but certainly not because you think you can't. Don't let yourself be talked into limitations that you don't need to have.

Vaya
09-09-2005, 10:56
I've always considered school not so much a place of learning stupid facts, but a place of learning how to interact with other kids on a social level. Basically, it gets you ready for society. You don't get to pick who you work with in school, and neither can you do that in real life. And teachers are like employers: some are cool, some are asses, but you're stuck with them anyway.

The pestilent 1
09-09-2005, 11:46
good luck, went throught he same thing myself and now im onto A-levels (i got "special consideration" given that ive only got 3 GCSE's, mind i only took three and the fourth my Teacher was crap and i had no interest in the material on the course)

ironduke
09-09-2005, 11:57
Some people really had a tough time. Death threats, that must have been hell.
I admit there is a lot of emotional stress that comes with school and they could maybe do some things to alleviate this. My way was to put some Linkin Park on and pound a wall for a bit (i eventually got over this)

nurgle_boy
09-09-2005, 12:10
I've always considered school not so much a place of learning stupid facts, but a place of learning how to interact with other kids on a social level. Basically, it gets you ready for society. You don't get to pick who you work with in school, and neither can you do that in real life. And teachers are like employers: some are cool, some are asses, but you're stuck with them anyway.


th thing is, with a job, you can change *clicks fingers* just like that, but with school, your stuck, unless you go through the whole thing of changing to another school, which undoubtedly as bad.

as for social interaction, when im not on my pc, or doing lessons, im at the local battle bunker hangin around with whoever.

its easy to talk to strangers... and in the safteyof thegaming room...

Shadowheart
09-09-2005, 12:39
I don't believe school does much to get you ready for the "real world", which is a term with a lot of possible interpretations. Life isn't something you can or need to prepare for, it's something that comes naturally. Difficultly and painfully, sure, but I think we make kids worry far too much about growing up.

You may pick up social skills at school, but then I don't see how that makes school any different from any other environment you share with people. In fact, I think the segregation into age groups that marks our society is detrimental to our social lives, it's too limiting. For one thing, if you're going to learn about how to deal with people later in life, why not learn it from those who are later in life?

Anything commonly termed as "social" gets a profound meh from me anyway. What's concidered being social rarely has much to do with actual interaction with others. That's not to say so-called social skills aren't important, much of the processes of our world depend on human beings, so it's just as well to know how to get through them as smoothly as possible. I'm just not convinced that all those years of school are neccessary to turn kids into woolly quadrupeds. Nor do I think it excuses the lack of rewarding and enjoyable learning experiences.

Vaya
09-09-2005, 13:14
th thing is, with a job, you can change *clicks fingers* just like that

Hmm, not around here at the moment...


Nor do I think it excuses the lack of rewarding and enjoyable learning experiences.

Me neither, but I've never seen schools as places that should provide you with such. Face it, ideal learning would ne one on one, because that is the only way to deal with personal development. But since that is not very likely to ever happen due to costs and pratical effectiveness, we're stuck with schools.

He Who Laughs
09-09-2005, 13:28
The decision is yours NB - but most importantly, don't let the chavvy d!ckheads get you down. I was a weedy geek in high school (I guess I still am), and copped alot of *****. I was the Vice Captain, and still copped it from the chavvies (we call 'em wanna-be trendy wan&er f*cken toss-pots here in Oz) - but only a couple of years later, I have an awesomely well-paid engineering job, have an awesome girlfriend, and all the chavvy d!ckheads are still kicking ***** as low-paid "stop-go" men and dole-bluggers with five kids to six seperate tarts (work that one out ;)).

Although you only learn the basics at high school, like Vaya said you don't get to pick the teachers and other students around you - if you can make it through, and go onto college (TAFE over here) or Uni, you'll be surrounded by lecturers and students with similar interests, you'll have a good time, and you'll just laugh at the chavvy wan&ers that gave you a hard time.

Oh, and whatever you do - don't do anything too drastic aye, you've got alot of mates on Warseer that'd miss you if you all of a sudden stopped posting.

Scabby
09-09-2005, 13:42
Well if it helps any school is horrible but college is GREAT! My situation was a lot like yours minus the lost buttons and home schooling. Pretty much my only friends were the kids and grown men who frequented the local game store. You sound like a smart person so life should get much better for you.

nurgle_boy
09-09-2005, 14:20
he who laughs- i see what your getting at, and that i have to decide for myself.
i guess ill be able to decide after going in for a few lessons...

as for doing anything stupid... yesterday i tried t drill a 1cm hole through the side of a lasgun, only to realise once bleeding profucely, that lasguns are barely a few mm thick.

my thumb hurts:(

id never do anything too stupid, or purposely to stupid i should say, as i know that going off and killing myself, or injuring myself wouldnt help anybody...

suicide is a waste of time and good razor blades...
...or nooses...

scabby- its nice to know its not justme thats had these problems. ive been told that 6th form is esier, as your treated like an adult, and thats only 2 years away (eep :eek:), so at the worst, i gues ill just have to do my GCSE's athome, and then do 6th form for my Alevels.

when i hit 18, im off to get o horrendously large loan, and start up an indy retailer in bath.
id pay the staff on models for a year, and get free help. :D

Shadowheart
09-09-2005, 14:31
Me neither, but I've never seen schools as places that should provide you with such. Face it, ideal learning would ne one on one, because that is the only way to deal with personal development. But since that is not very likely to ever happen due to costs and pratical effectiveness, we're stuck with schools.

Schools, which you're required by law to attend them until a certain age, should damn well provide a quality service. School claims years of people's lives, and is concidered of the utmost importance, yet can get away with being rubbish. We're only stuck with bad situations so long as enough people accept that that's just the way it is.
But as long as you're in school, there's little you can hope to do about it. You've got no money, no job (you need to finish school for that, it's a catch 22), not even a right to vote. When I spoke teachers about it they always fell back on the "that's just how it is" line, not even bothering to argue that the classes were worth attending for any reason other than to get a diploma at the end of the ride.

Meh, much of this is me being bitter about the way the new system was forced upon an unsuspecting generation of students. That's three years of our education FUBAR. I wish I had known about that mess in advance, I'd have avoided the whole thing. But alas nobody knew what was going to happen, and our opinion was never even asked.

Wez
09-09-2005, 15:26
I've always considered school not so much a place of learning stupid facts, but a place of learning how to interact with other kids on a social level. Basically, it gets you ready for society. You don't get to pick who you work with in school, and neither can you do that in real life. And teachers are like employers: some are cool, some are asses, but you're stuck with them anyway.
This is why I suggested he should go to school. You can't just swap jobs easily, so you can't choose who you work with. Getting a stable job with next to no qualifications is not easy.

Sixth form is definately better than gcse's, and I expect Uni will be even better. However to get to 6th form and Uni you need some grades (certainly around here. You don't need a lot, but you do need something).


its easy to talk to strangers... and in the safteyof thegaming room...
It's easy to talk to anyone in a secure environment where everyone's equal. That's why I think you should go to school, so that you can actually interact with people and possibly learn something (depends entirely on your class, school and teachers, but if they're bad catching up at home's not too hard).

-Wez

tzeentchgiant
09-09-2005, 15:35
Whilst I dissagre with most of your points wez, I feel I must drop by and deliver you a special message.

Happy Birthday

Hope you have a good one.

TG

Wolf Scout Ewan
09-09-2005, 21:36
Well said Shadowheart!

I too got bullied at school (badly), and I hated learning until I went to college and then Uni. But even then there was bad people, but then I could avoid them.

School is social programming, fit in or die, do it our way or die, learn or die. That was until I learnt to adapt, found a good crowd in 6th form.

If people just dont like your face then its not your fault. Move on and find somwhere where you are comfortable. If that means finding another school or college... then thats what u may have to do.

The Law: Yeah, yeah. Thats a load of Nazi nonsense right there, there is nothing u cant teach yourself from books if u can read. School is theer to make people into nice little clones suitable for low paid employment.

If you can stick it though, there is an award at the end. College or University! U wanna concentrate on what interests you? If so then you can attend a modelmaking course at Uni! Or a writing course... anything u want u can find it! But, in the mean time you gotta go through the basic training to specialise.

tzeentchgiant
09-09-2005, 21:49
Wolf Scout Ewan, I'm surprised that you have got this far, spouting text talk like that, u shouldn't be used, it makes you look juvenile, so avoid it in future.


School is theer to make people into nice little clones suitable for low paid employment.
You cannot possibly think that, if you do, I pity you, that attitude won't get you far at all, just because full time education doesn't suit everybody, it doesn't mean that for those that it does suit, you are forced into crap jobs, really, what an entirely ignorant thing to write.


School is social programming, fit in or die, do it our way or die, learn or die. That was until I learnt to adapt, found a good crowd in 6th form.
It is sad that you had such a bad time at school, but the environment most people are in doesn't force you to fit in, you can be an outcast if you want, your problem here is with society, not with the school, and do you think it is possible for an establishment to accomadate every pupil, obviously there will be those left dissapointed at the end of the day, but no teacher can make time for every single pupil, and those who make the lives of the teachers harder, by imposing themselves onto standard education, are just there because their parents won't send them to a school with an educatioon system specifically designed to their needs, are often these outcasts, and it is nobody's fault but the parents, a good teacher can only do so much, whereas a trained teacher can do wonders, to help them fit in.

TG

Yodhrin
09-09-2005, 22:34
It is sad that you had such a bad time at school, but the environment most people are in doesn't force you to fit in, you can be an outcast if you want, your problem here is with society, not with the school, and do you think it is possible for an establishment to accomadate every pupil, obviously there will be those left dissapointed at the end of the day, but no teacher can make time for every single pupil, and those who make the lives of the teachers harder, by imposing themselves onto standard education, are just there because their parents won't send them to a school with an educatioon system specifically designed to their needs, are often these outcasts, and it is nobody's fault but the parents, a good teacher can only do so much, whereas a trained teacher can do wonders, to help them fit in.

TG

Nonsense. The entire point of the state school system and the national curriculum is to create an environment which accomodates anyone and everyone. If it fails to do that then it is a worthless exercise in futility.

You can not possibly believe that people choose to be an outcast, if you do you are the one who deserves the pity here. The entire school system is designed around a single principle: Dont Rock The Boat. This applies to everyone, from the level of the individual student, through the teachers and right up to the governmental level.

Did you know, for instance, that often people who are bullied are treated worse by the staff than the bullies themselves? Why you ask? Well, because they Rock The Boat. They make life difficult. If they just settled down and became social sheep like all the other good little drones, they wouldnt be getting bullied, so its their own fault. You would be surprised just how prevailent these attitudes are amongst teachers.

The point here is not that most people react well in a school environment, but that for those that do not the system fails them miserably, at each and every turn.

The school system is not about teaching children valuable social or educational lessons, it is about running them through as quickly as possible with a piece of paper that will either allow them to finally become an individual or be just enough to pawn them off into a crappy job. If someone doesnt flow smoothly through the system, either because they have learning difficulties, or look too different, or even just have the "wrong" hobby, they are ridiculed and ignored until they either get in line or crack under the pressure.

I feel very passionately about this issue. I went through it, from the mild discomfort at the beginning to the point where teachers were having to drive me home to avoid me being, literally, killed. Since then, Ive heard similar stories from all over the country, and yet there is no public outcry. It's barely even noticed. Once in a while, the government runs a new "initiative" to combat bullying, which is generally totally ignored by education establishments because it means more paperwork for them. When I see people arguing the position you are arguing, it makes my blood boil, because Ive seen, and experianced, just how badly the system fails children each and every day.

Nobody chooses to be bullied.

Minister
09-09-2005, 22:43
One thing which I have allways found is that it is often easier to start afresh as far as such situations go, but that it is not usually better to do so. You have a slight kick-start as far as starting talking to people goes (ah look, new boy. Where are you from etc.), yet you also loose whatever support you have gained.

In all cases, the hardest part is starting the second conversation. How to do this I can't exactly help on, but it's a complete git. Going on about how it is easier to talk to people with common interests is all well and good, but you don't find that out untill you have talked to them, which is easier with a common interest. And so-on.

The best way, which I only came close to finding at the end of high school and in Uni, is to be conspicuous. Go through the hallways humming the Imperial March and wear a t-shirt with the Mechania Opius superimposed over crossed chain-axes (allright, by the time I was confident enough to do this it was too small and the school had a uniform, but hey). The trick is to be conspicuous only to those who know what you're on about.

The other thing to allways remember: half of your fellow pupils/students are just as ****-scared of things as you are. The only thing which varies is how well they cope.

One last thing: teachers and lecturers are often very good for helping, but some of them will only do what they are required to and no more. Confide in the ones that you like, as these are usually of the first category.

Actually, a second lasterer thing: when pining, embed the part in blue-tac on a cutting board. It's not as precise, but your fingers are well out of the way (and you avoid cramp too).

tzeentchgiant
10-09-2005, 01:13
Nonsense. The entire point of the state school system and the national curriculum is to create an environment which accomodates anyone and everyone. If it fails to do that then it is a worthless exercise in futility.


Yes that is the point of school, but failing to do so does not mean it is unsuccessful at everything, and entirely pointless, you can educate a few, without educating all, and if that's the best the school can do, then that's fine by me. People who are difficult to educate can go to non state schools, people with learning difficulties, shouldn't be included to suffer from a type of education that isn't right for them, conforming and being ina state school are not one and the same, which I think you thin I mean, you can be different in a normal school without failing to be educated. You should not be inclided in a school, for the sake of inclusion, there are better places to be educated than somewhere that cannot cater fully for your needs.



You can not possibly believe that people choose to be an outcast

Well, I do beleive that, and you can ask several people who are, for all intents and purposes, loners, outcasts, people who don't want to associate with you, for a number of reasons, I know two people who feel they are above me, who never talk to anyone, not even each other, I know one person who, is without being calous, stupid, he chooses to spend his time reading, and whilst he can make conversation, I know because on occasion I have talked to him, spends most of his time reading, a solitary pursute, that he enjoys more than us imposing ourselves onto him.



if you do you are the one who deserves the pity here
Because you have never met the people to which I refer, or are too blind to recognise that some choose to be like this, I do not accuse you of being pity worthy, I would just ask you to read what I have to say, before accusing me of being below you.


Did you know, for instance, that often people who are bullied are treated worse by the staff than the bullies themselves? Why you ask? Well, because they Rock The Boat. They make life difficult. If they just settled down and became social sheep like all the other good little drones, they wouldnt be getting bullied, so its their own fault. You would be surprised just how prevailent these attitudes are amongst teachers.
Yes, in my school, one pupil left because his teachers basically refused to teach him properly, poor choice on his part, lead to a bad situation, which could have been avoided, had he not "rocked the boat", but every one of the people in my year are individual, we all conform to the basic ideals of the school, and benefit for it, but we are not drones, sitting subjects at all different levels, pushing for better things, aren't looked at as being problems, they are considered, in my extreme example, the pupil in question anted more than any school could provide, college for him was the best option, moving out of the school to a place which better suits his needs, why is that suddenly a failing on the schools part?

Of course, I am reminded that not all schools support such active individuality, and I shouldn't take for granted that all teachers have the same attitudes to their pupils as me and my friends (other school) do. So looking at it like that, either I am in a great school, or you are in a possibly great school, filled to the brim with recless teachers, not willing to put in five minutes with someone who doesn't share their goals.


The point here is not that most people react well in a school environment, but that for those that do not the system fails them miserably, at each and every turn.

My counter point would be that, education doesn't have to happen at school, tutors and colleges work well too, I am just saying that schools whilst they try, cannot catch everybody, but I would never go all out and blame the school entirely for a pupils views, in my above example, I mentioned that the pupil made a bad choice to start with, which set him against the school, and through that one decision, he found himself uncomfortable in school situation, and left of his wn accord, to pursue the same subjects in a different environment, but even he accepts the school is not entirely to blame, he just wished he it could have accomadated him better, which he accepts, seemed impossible for what he had wanted.


The school system is not about teaching children valuable social or educational lessons, it is about running them through as quickly as possible with a piece of paper that will either allow them to finally become an individual or be just enough to pawn them off into a crappy job

In my school at least, we are encouraged to be individuals, and shoot to our highest potential, without going for a mickey mouse degree that old Tony's so fond of, we are not fast tracked as I see it, school to me is important, and covers all aspects of my sociological and educational deveopement, without school as a basis, I would expect to get the crappy job of which you speak, but accept that there are of course methods, other than traditional schooling which will turn out more successful pupils, than it would if said individuals were in standard education, and will allow them to become the same as anybody as comfortable as they became outside of school, in school would acheive.


If someone doesnt flow smoothly through the system, either because they have learning difficulties, or look too different, or even just have the "wrong" hobby, they are ridiculed and ignored until they either get in line or crack under the pressure.

With learning difficulties, although I do slightly dissaprove of shifting every basket case off, I can see the sense in sending them somewhere else, it would be a benefit to the pupil as much as it is to the school, where they recaive better, non standard education, from people who are more adept at teaching to that specific group. For those who are ridiculed until breaking point, I am very very sorry, I cannot understand what would make the school system solely responsible for this, I would say it's more to do with societies attitude to outsiders and differences, but I do accept that it happens, and perfectly proves why school is not ideal for some, but it doesn't make standard education bad, and why would it? It shows how something that works for one doesn't work for others, and not that education, the way it is now, creates drones, and stamped clone copies, it shows that those that don't fit in cannot beforced to, and not that those that do are all generic wasters, who are only fit for the simpler jobs in life.

It seems as though, by this you suggest that other methods of education are "better", and for some, or even most, they are, but that does not mean to say, that those who do not have the opertunity to use alternative forms are in any way dissadvantaged, and the reason why this rubs me the wrong way so much is because you are basically condeming me to something I am better than, looking down on me because I go to school, saying I will not acheive what you will, because you didn't like who you were being taught by, or they didn't like you, and why am I to suffer from an ignorant blast at my future because of something that happend to you? Why shoudl I be told that I will not succeed because what happened to you is unfair? It honestly aggravates me, so ddeply, but as I was not a target, I find it hard to understand why I see it that way, and I hope you understand what I'm getting at too, me saying that something that deeply affected you personnally, shouldn't have the same mind-draining effect on me, and that, the way it has been phrased earlier in this thread, I will not become a drone, or a copy, or a simpleton, because I went through public (Scottish meaning of public here) schooling, and you can at least see why I would resent the alligation.


I feel very passionately about this issue. I went through it, from the mild discomfort at the beginning to the point where teachers were having to drive me home to avoid me being, literally, killed. Since then, Ive heard similar stories from all over the country, and yet there is no public outcry. It's barely even noticed.

So you can see how this is more a sociology problemn than a school problem, and whilst those ideals are transferred through public education, it is not to blame, and nor does it source the fools who do this to people like you, it is the country's attitude, not the schools, it is the teachers attitude, not the governments and that it is those who are ignorant enough to think otherwise's, not mine.


Once in a while, the government runs a new "initiative" to combat bullying, which is generally totally ignored by education establishments because it means more paperwork for them.

My problem from this statement is that, having seen almost evry anti-bullying method being inforced, I am not aware of this situation, so you must forgive my inability to talk about that specific issue.

Second Page continues,

tzeentchgiant
10-09-2005, 01:13
When I see people arguing the position you are arguing, it makes my blood boil, because Ive seen, and experianced, just how badly the system fails children each and every day.


I hope you can see, that, despite you reading into my first arguement, what I conveyed in that was a short response, and that I di not say school was for everyone, I was mearly defending against the fact that Wolf Scout Ewan, wrote that I was "domed" to fail, and that makes my blood boil, to be told something, by someone I don't know about me, that is entirely wrong, I cannot say what the future will bring for me, but a dead end job being my condamnation because of how I was, or to which method I was educated, why is that right to say? That is why I spouted a whole load of bull, that is why I am annoyed at this, it is because I was told by a missinformed individual what I will become, and whilst not targetted, it refered to people like me, and that I was stating other wise to his points, not the arguement in general.


Nobody chooses to be bullied.

I agree, but I was not talking about bullying, I was talking about outcasts, who can choose to be, bullying is condemed at my school, being alone by yourself is not, the separation between this points is what I am trying to make clear, showing that, because you are alone is some senses, it doesn't mean that school doesn't work for you.

And finally, I would like to sicerely apologise for getting you up in arms over an issue I agree with you on, but what I was responding to was something different, and I hope you can see that, and agree that we both shoot for the same goal here, not saying education is for everybody, but it does work for some.

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, sorry NB, I just couldn't resist posting my opinions, and now of course you all know how opinionated I truely am.

TG

Yodhrin
10-09-2005, 09:06
It appears I misunderstood your position. I still take issue with some of your points, however. If a person spends their time reading, rather than interacting, does it not make you wonder why? There's a perfectly good chance he's being bullied by others in the school, or was in the past, and is dealing with that the only way he can.

The system is responsible for all those within it. If a child at school is miserable, the school should be doing something for them, but they dont. Hell, we have an entire group of teachers who were recruited specifically for that purpose: the Guidance department, and they simply do nothing.

Your school sounds like a paradise, and Im glad you are in such an enjoyable place, if I had been to a school like that perhaps I wouldnt have left, but dont think for a second the majority of the education system works so well. Do some research, 16 or more children commit suicide every year because the system failed them. The simple fact is that, at the school level, there are certain things which are "accepted", and if you do not conform to those things then you are screwed. The reason I can say with perfect certainty that its not a societal issue is simple: it almost vanishes once you leave school.

If the government had not been spending untold millions out of the schooling budget on the Dyslexia Myth for the past god-knows how many years, they might have had the funding to get rid of most learning difficulty at the primary school level. They would have had money to spend on anti-bullying initiatives that amount to more than a week-long run of TV ads and a few posters saying "tell someone".

Alternate education is an option for many, but you have to remember, specialist forms of education cost the government an awesome amount of money, and they try to limit how many people get in there in any way possible. Only last year some in the bloody Scottish Parliament tried to get rid of almost all specialist schools and re-intigrate those with serious disabilities and learning difficulties into the main school system, because it would cost less to give them a substandard education and leave them to be ridiculed and bullied.

Anyway, I just want people to see all the angles. There are massive problems in the education system that go unnoticed or ignored, and something needs to be done.

tzeentchgiant
10-09-2005, 10:55
Point taken, but I would still say, those in my year, do choose to remove themselves, they don't get on with people, not just school pupils.

I don't think my school is a paradise, although from what you are saying, there are places like hell out there, which is a sad thing, because maybe I've had a taste of how things could be fr everyone.

Anyway, glad we worked that out :) .

TG