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View Full Version : Why was the Golden Throne built?



Maskingunnar
01-11-2007, 22:52
First of all, was the Golden Throne built before the Emperor had his battle with Horus or has i been there for many centuries before, serving some other meaning. Or did they just patch it together the second they heard that the Emperor had fallen?
Of course i know what the Golden Throne is used for now a days, but was it constructed before the Emperor was mortaly wounded in the purpose of "Well he is allmighty an all but we may just in case have a machine that could prolong his life if he would be wounded badly but not entirely die".

Simply what I am asking is whats the story/fluff of the Golden Throne, and if it was constructed long before the Emperors battle: why?

Fact, theories, thoughts?

cpl_hicks
01-11-2007, 23:04
well there are at least two sets of conflicting information

1)
The golden throne was thrown together, after the Emperor was mortally wounded by Horus, he told Dorn how to construct it with his last words

2) It was constructed some time before/during the Heresy, and the Emperor sat on it up until Horus reached Earth Orbit, the emperor then gave the seat to the Signalite, while he fought Horus.

heinrichvoncarstein
01-11-2007, 23:30
if you have read the horus heresey collected visions book you know why. it was built because
reason number 1: the emperor saw the futureand knew he was gonna die so he built the throne and..
reason number 2: the emperor built a webway portal under the imperial palace and he sits there to hold it open and when the warp rift opened inside he used it to i don't know what but when horus lowered his shields the emperor gave the seat to as mentioned above, the sigilite while he fought horus

The_Patriot
02-11-2007, 01:24
if you have read the horus heresey collected visions book you know why. it was built because
reason number 1: the emperor saw the futureand knew he was gonna die so he built the throne and..
reason number 2: the emperor built a webway portal under the imperial palace and he sits there to hold it open and when the warp rift opened inside he used it to i don't know what but when horus lowered his shields the emperor gave the seat to as mentioned above, the sigilite while he fought horus

Actually, he didn't know that he was going to die nor that he was going to be wounded severely by Horus. The future was clouded by the Chaos gods, so he didn't know what the future held for him or the Imperium. The only knowledge he knew about of future events was that humanity was on the threshold of being the most powerful psychic race and he foresaw Chaos destroying humanity.

The original purpose of the throne was to guide the Astronomicon. It wasn't until Magnus stripped the runes of protection on the webway that the webway was tied into the throne. Life support wasn't added until after the battle with Horus and quickly I might add. This is what was in The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions.

Kage2020
02-11-2007, 02:21
Is it bad that the first thing that sprang to my mind when I read the thread title was, "To get to the other side!"? Not only is it horrendously lame, but strangely it is remarkably appropriate! :D

At least in my interpretation, I would agree that the Golden Throne was built to guide the Astronomican (indeed, this idea was discussed on old Portent several years before the Collected Visions novels came out ;)) and that it was subsequently suborned by the Emperor and Dorn for its ability to sustain the material life of the Emperor, more than likely capitalising upon the fact that it is designed to channel psychic energy. (He didn't count on actually "mostly dying," but there we go.)

Problem is that, for me at least, this required sufficient energy that when coupled with the "psychic wards" against the proto-Webway/Warp Gate, put the whole Golden Throne out of balance. The solution? Get another boost of energy, regardless of how "pure" it was, and throw that into the cooking pot. Thus the Pysker Sacrifice...

Kage

The_Patriot
02-11-2007, 02:29
Is it bad that the first thing that sprang to my mind when I read the thread title was, "To get to the other side!"? Not only is it horrendously lame, but strangely it is remarkably appropriate! :D

At least in my interpretation, I would agree that the Golden Throne was built to guide the Astronomican (indeed, this idea was discussed on old Portent several years before the Collected Visions novels came out ;)) and that it was subsequently suborned by the Emperor and Dorn for its ability to sustain the material life of the Emperor, more than likely capitalising upon the fact that it is designed to channel psychic energy. (He didn't count on actually "mostly dying," but there we go.)

Problem is that, for me at least, this required sufficient energy that when coupled with the "psychic wards" against the proto-Webway/Warp Gate, put the whole Golden Throne out of balance. The solution? Get another boost of energy, regardless of how "pure" it was, and throw that into the cooking pot. Thus the Pysker Sacrifice...

Kage

Well, according The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions psykers were being sacrificed before the Emperor was enthroned. They were sacrificed to boost the astropath signal and clearing a path through the warp so loyalists could communicate with Terra and move to protect it. At the time, the Chaos gods and their minions were causing ferocious warp storms that prevented many loyalist legions from being able to move as well as prohibiting any communications.

The Emperor was working beneath the palace and left Malcador in charge. He didn't have the psychic strength to keep both the webway clear and overcome the warp interference, so Malcador suggested that they use the unbound psykers to boost the signal of the Astronomicon. The order was never rescinded.

Kage2020
02-11-2007, 02:53
Well, there are certain things that I'll accept from the Collected Visions, certain things that I can integrate, and certain things that just seem a bit lame. The pre-incarceration Psyker Sacrifice is one of those. Of course, the Astronomican - and the Adeptus Astronomican - is something different altogether. Since I haven't read the Collected Visions (although it's bad form to judge one work by another, after buying Xenology I couldn't bring myself to search for these books) I cannot be any more specific, but it seems reasonable that there is some confusion as to the nature of this "sacrifice," at least in comparison to later periods.

In short, it's often too easy to paint things with the same brush.

Then again, the whole Webway malarky often strikes me as a bit contrived (well, more so than in any other fictional universe, perhaps), and I've never been overtly sold on the "thigh-slapping" approach that it seems to evoke.

Of course, that's just me.

Kage

The_Patriot
02-11-2007, 03:10
Well, there are certain things that I'll accept from the Collected Visions, certain things that I can integrate, and certain things that just seem a bit lame. The pre-incarceration Psyker Sacrifice is one of those. Of course, the Astronomican - and the Adeptus Astronomican - is something different altogether. Since I haven't read the Collected Visions (although it's bad form to judge one work by another, after buying Xenology I couldn't bring myself to search for these books) I cannot be any more specific, but it seems reasonable that there is some confusion as to the nature of this "sacrifice," at least in comparison to later periods.

In short, it's often too easy to paint things with the same brush.

Then again, the whole Webway malarky often strikes me as a bit contrived (well, more so than in any other fictional universe, perhaps), and I've never been overtly sold on the "thigh-slapping" approach that it seems to evoke.

Of course, that's just me.

Kage

Not really contrived since the Old Ones did seed Earth with humanity and they used only webway portals for travel. It also makes sense that the Emperor would be trying to build his own version since it would deprive Chaos of power and would further protect humanity. The Astronomicon was to be only temporary until the webway could be used safely which is the impression I got from HH: CV.

Kage2020
02-11-2007, 03:32
Well, that's one approach for sure. Some might argue that it was problematic for the Old Ones to seed Earth since they "died out" tens of millions of years ago and, well, that would be pushing the boundaries of foresight. ;) (Of course, I don't believe that they died out, but there we go.)

You might also find some argument that they used "webway" portals to travel, but this is based upon preference and the desire to merge across editions, i.e. the original suggestion that the Eldar had taken up the technology of the Old Ones (assumption: Old Slann are Old Ones, or if you believe Gav Thorpe at least some of them) and improved upon it to build the Webway. Thus Old Ones do not use the Webway.

That's overly-pedantic, though.

Then you take a gander at the "Imperial Webway" 'fluff'. Is it really a Webway, or something akin to the more traditional "warp gate network" that the Eldar had supposedly walked off and improved upon back in the day? (Some find the HH: CV approach somewhat clunky because it means that the Emperor has to have his fingers in as many pies of the C'tan - he is, of course, the C'toe - and steps on the fingers of the Eldar's psychic engineering superiority, etc. etc. Some might even say that it is "disrespecting" the Eldar and their fans! ;)

All in all, though, it seems more like a jumped-up reason to remove the Emperor back to Terra (seeming argument: the Emperor is so wise and powerful that he must have had some super-secret, uber-powerful reason), tie up the Power Creep'd Adeptus Custodes (who have to be more powerful than the already uber'd Grey Knights), and make nominal mention to Watson's "Emperor on Overwatch." After all, if the Emperor wasn't on the Throne then, obviously, Terra would be overrun by daemons and then the entire universe would come crashing down (because the Imperium is the focus of everything, of course). You were right, though, since it wasn't contrived at all -- I misused the word, since I would hardly call this stuff ingenius!

Next, the Emperor is going to awake, the Imperium is going to rally behind his next project to create a Dyson Sphere that will ward off the threat of the other races. Meanwhile, the Emperor will work in secret to shape humanity into biological creatures with specific function, their hive mind with all that psychic potential rekindling the Hydra plot that will blast the Chaos Gods from existence...

...Then, he awakes in the shower. Yes, it was all the observers dream.

:D

As ever, interpretation is paramount, and how you construct that interpretation of the universe reflects on how you approach bits and pieces of the 'fluff' that we discuss. :D

Kage

The_Patriot
02-11-2007, 03:45
The crux of your interpretation relies upon an unscientifically proven hypothesis that mankind macro evolved. According to the scientific method for social sciences macro evolution cannot be proven much like creationism cannot be proven. ;)

I'm of the school that believes the Old Ones existed and built the webway. If they didn't then there wouldn't be Necrons now would there? The social scientific method proves that there are Necrons and this is how things went. ;)

The webway the Emperor was working on was a portal that tied into the existing unpowered Old One webway portals. He couldn't figure out how to get the Old One's webway to power up, so he built his own. The Emperor also worked on one project at a time, so he wasn't as busy as the C'Tan in that respects.

Kage2020
02-11-2007, 03:49
Hey, as I said you can believe what you want to believe. It just doesn't make it true for everyone. :D


I'm of the school that believes the Old Ones existed and built the webway. If they didn't then there wouldn't be Necrons now would there? The social scientific method proves that there are Necrons and this is how things went.
Now that, I believe, is what they call a fallacious argument. It's right at home in the interpretation of the 40k universe.

Beyond that, it sounds familiar. You just work with the principle that Old Ones = Webway, while I work with Eldar = Webway, Old Ones = Warp Gate Network and the premise that Warp Gate Network < Webway.


The Emperor also worked on one project at a time, so he wasn't as busy as the C'Tan in that respects.
Come, now. That's rather un-Imperial of you. Some even argue that the Emperor is a C'tan, or even has more power in his left toe than a C'tan (hence the C'toe). :eek: :skull:

Kage

The_Patriot
02-11-2007, 03:57
Hey, as I said you can believe what you want to believe. It just doesn't make it true for everyone. :D


Now that, I believe, is what they call a fallacious argument. It's right at home in the interpretation of the 40k universe.

Beyond that, it sounds familiar. You just work with the principle that Old Ones = Webway, while I work with Eldar = Webway, Old Ones = Warp Gate Network and the premise that Warp Gate Network < Webway.


Come, now. That's rather un-Imperial of you. Some even argue that the Emperor is a C'tan, or even has more power in his left toe than a C'tan (hence the C'toe). :eek: :skull:

Kage

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons..." ;)

No fallacy in my statement since the existence of one proves the existence of the other. According to the social science method you have to have artifacts, skeletons, etc... all to support your theory and make it true. If I recall my fluff it was an Imperial archeological team that discovered the first tomb world and were promptly eaten. Which means that everything I said was completely true. :P

In my view the Webway=/=Warp Gate Network. They are one and the same.

I'm pragmatic and you're being a heretic for suggesting that the God-Emperor is a xenos scum!

Kage2020
02-11-2007, 04:06
Well, there's another statement from that film that is equally appealing at the moment. ;)

Since the 'argument' itself has become the purpose. Thus I shall discontinue. :D

/Kage

ryng_sting
02-11-2007, 18:32
If you accept the Sabretooth stories, the Emperor originally intended the Golden Throne as the starting point for the Webway project. The Emperor builds his palace on top of a warp gate on Terra leading to abandoned section of the Eldar webway, so the Emperor builts a tiny conduit to it hoping to launching an invasion, so freeing humanity from dependence on warp ships and astrotelepathy.

I find it reasonable enough. Not even the Emperor is powerful enough to build a Webway of his own, so he builds a small tunnel leading to a part of it in the hopes of taking it over. The Crisis plausibly removes him the centre of play at a crucial moment in the story, and shows the full depth of the trap that snared Magnus.

I'm given some pause to wonder, though: what if everything had gone to plan? I doubt the Eldar would have let it slide; and while the Emperor might have been able to access the warp gates by himself, what of the rest of the Imperium?

graveaccomplice
02-11-2007, 21:12
Well, according The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions psykers were being sacrificed before the Emperor was enthroned. They were sacrificed to boost the astropath signal and clearing a path through the warp so loyalists could communicate with Terra and move to protect it. At the time, the Chaos gods and their minions were causing ferocious warp storms that prevented many loyalist legions from being able to move as well as prohibiting any communications.

The Emperor was working beneath the palace and left Malcador in charge. He didn't have the psychic strength to keep both the webway clear and overcome the warp interference, so Malcador suggested that they use the unbound psykers to boost the signal of the Astronomicon. The order was never rescinded.


In 'Faith & Fire', the Sisters had to destroy a machine meant to increase the power of a psycher by sacrificing another. It was heavily hinted that the machine was a project of the emporer.

The sacrifice of psychers for the emporer seems to be a disturbing trend.