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kikkoman
02-11-2007, 21:02
From what I've seen of the new codex, hahah

boyz got some nice 18" shuriken catapults, mobilized from the general populace of orks to back up the elites.

then they've got specialized squads organized something like Aspect Warriors. Lootas are Orky dark reapers, Flash gitz reminiscent of fire dragons in their power armor busting potential, or maybe wraithguard? extra durability with a special ruled gun. Though maybe in fluff more like Harlequins, an extra experienced fighting unit not directly part of the Clan/Craftworld. Tankbustas like the tank killin' aspect of Fire Dragons. Eldar seem to have more melee specialists though, but all orks are good in a scrap anyways.
Hmmm... the green clad Scorpions, their aspect gear pretty much makes them orkier: more attacks, tougher, stronger, and the nob carries a power klaw.

Nice jetbikes with hit n' run capability. Paint them red to go fasta, will be fun to see Saim hann engage them in the skies (lots of red boosting around the battlefield, maybe some lances stabbing in here and there)

The ork specialist HQ's give powerful benefits to the squads they're a part of, like a Farseer. Feel No Pain is nice, reminds me of Fortune. Or just use the fighty HQ unit.

Seems there's plenty of variety for the ork armies, giant mob or hard hitting elites, zooming 24" down the table or a steady 6" advance, possibly more specialized potential than Eldar even?

Eldar n' Orks started off as the original pirate races in 40k, now their armies grow closer in form. Maybe it's the common bond between Old One warrior races :D

FruitSmack!
02-11-2007, 21:10
man what

aaron

catbarf
02-11-2007, 21:14
He's completely correct. In the grim darkness of 4th Edition, every damn army is the same.

superknijn
02-11-2007, 21:16
Shoota's are AP6 (which means alot against Orks, IG, Dark Eldar and some Craftworld Eldar), and are on BS2 models. Alo, Orks have got an insane amount of Ordnance, while I can't find a hint of Ordnance in the Eldar list.

MuttMan
02-11-2007, 21:17
I think the generalisation of weapons are orks that band together in mobs that like a certain style of fighting and act like organised gangs rather then fighting aspects.

(Edit)
I just posted same time the guy above did so I didnt see the guys comment.

Try this list bud:
3 Small Swooping Hawks units with that power that lets them leave (read their grenade packs rule)
Take an autarch, keep him alive for their deep strikes.
Take 3 fire prisms.
Take a farseer with that storm power (forgot its name)

There is no real ordinance per se', but you can have 7 large blast templates. (tyranids can have 8)

FruitSmack!
02-11-2007, 21:26
He's completely correct. In the grim darkness of 4th Edition, every damn army is the same.

:rolleyes:

We'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

aaron

volair
02-11-2007, 21:43
There are some key differences between them:

Eldar have fire dragons and falcons. The ork equivalent, tankbustaz in battlewagons, is a complete joke and is much much less effective.

Orks have Warbikers, a very efficient unit(assuming Dakkaguns are twin-linked, a point which is stated in the first entry of the codex for warbikers but not in the smaller rules entry later in the codex), but Eldar bikes in comparison are horrible and not at all worth using.

Orks have Lootaz, which are quite unlike Dark Reapers. Sure they both have 48inch range and heavy guns but their stats are very different and have completely different purposes.

boogaloo
02-11-2007, 22:26
There are some key differences between them:
Orks have Warbikers, a very efficient unit(assuming Dakkaguns are twin-linked, a point which is stated in the first entry of the codex for warbikers but not in the smaller rules entry later in the codex), but Eldar bikes in comparison are horrible and not at all worth using..

i've never used Tankbustas in a battle wagon so i can't compare there. But to say jetbikes are useless. I'll assume that you're talking about guardians, as i can't fathom you saying that about farseers, autarchs or shining spears.

12man squad with 4 shurikannons. = 304 points that's alot of points.

16 S4 AP5 shots (twin linked)
12 S6 AP5 Shots.
12 S3 assault attacks (24 on the charge)

That shouold kill about... 3 marines in a turn!?!?!? qiat scratch what i said, guardian bikes are pretty much useless. THey are however cheaper faster shuricannons than defenders can carry, so... can we say pros/cons:)

I would just like to say that with my biker HQ i will hover over terrain in my movement phase (as per eldar jetbikes rules in Basic Rule Book) then blast out with psychic He77 (doom/e.storm) then move my bike strait down 6" INTO cover in the assault phase blocking him from line of site and Pretty freekin safe from assaults. (dangerous terrain test though)

I'm also kinda grasping for straws realiseing how pwned i got when i spoke before i thought. Note to self... think THEN post

catbarf
02-11-2007, 22:55
:rolleyes:

We'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

aaron

I was being [mostly] sarcastic. Although he does have a point about some of the similarities.

Vaktathi
02-11-2007, 22:58
Shoota's are AP6 (which means alot against Orks, IG, Dark Eldar and some Craftworld Eldar), and are on BS2 models. Alo, Orks have got an insane amount of Ordnance, while I can't find a hint of Ordnance in the Eldar list.

AP6 doesnt mean anything against IG's 5+ save, unless you happened to take the Jungle Fighters doctrine *shudders*.

Latro_
02-11-2007, 23:08
did i just see da ladz gettin compared to panzeez!! the cheek!

Outlaw289
02-11-2007, 23:13
AP6 doesnt mean anything against IG's 5+ save, unless you happened to take the Jungle Fighters doctrine *shudders*.

He means Shuriken Catapults are AP5 and that really screws with the 5+ save armies. Being as shootas are AP6 it means we get to roll for saves which makes a significant difference in casualties suffered from Orky shooting compared to that inflicted by Eldar.

Vaktathi
02-11-2007, 23:15
ahh ok, I just saw Orks in there and thought something else methinks.

Razarael
02-11-2007, 23:24
Hmm... I already play Eldar... So maybe their similarities are the reason I want to get an Ork army when the new codex comes out.

No, that's not it at all. The feel of the army is completely different. Eldar are graceful, reliable, precise, and few in number. Orks are psychotic murderers that somehow got a hold of crazy technology and improved upon it in their own orky way. Orks are crude, rediculous, and huge in number. The feel of the army is completely different, and that is the reason I want to pick them up. They are the stark opposite of Eldar. Sometimes, I don't want to have to think about preserving my people. I would love to have the ability to charge in and not care what the results are.

And by god, win or lose, I will play them like an idiot. All the more orky.

alex03
02-11-2007, 23:58
actually, its going to be orks > eldar ;)

kikkoman
02-11-2007, 23:58
Hmm... I already play Eldar... So maybe their similarities are the reason I want to get an Ork army when the new codex comes out.

No, that's not it at all. The feel of the army is completely different.

I actually think they are very similar in attitude.


Orks are psychotic murderers that somehow got a hold of crazy technology and improved upon it in their own orky way.

Every Eldar is a warrior, all Eldar enjoy the act of killing when given the chance. They contain it with the paths, but they all when it comes down to it just love the sensation of fighting. A jetbiker is a jetbiker because he just loves to go fast (and red wuns love goin' fast the most). A giant blood dripping molten bronze battle god even manifests when they go to war, Khaine's Avatar is like Waaaagh personified.
Their destiny is fighting. Eldar go out and pick fights with everyone everywhere across the galaxy. Instead of boyz hoppin outta a space hulk, it's warriors storming from a webgate. The Farseers have scryed the future, see only battle, and the Eldar are content in what fate has given them. That is the sort of destiny orks could appreciate.




Orks are crude, rediculous, and huge in number.... Sometimes, I don't want to have to think about preserving my people. I would love to have the ability to charge in and not care what the results are.
I guess you never used guardians :D

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1348/853809247_f0ba7cd42a_m.jpg


Sometimes, I don't want to have to think about preserving my people.
Orks field combat medics (who occupy a prestigious position in society), use extensive bionics to preserve their wounded, and even bring portable force fields to protect themselves.

The two main pirate forces in 40k are the orks and the eldar. They're both races that, when complacent, find risking their lives and killing stuff to be fun. Orks may do it for materials, but Eldar don't even loot, they got everything they need, they just want to fight. Sure Craftworlders give an excuse, like to preserve their civilization, save the future, etc. but when Blood Runs and War Calls, when they're ripping apart hapless humies with shuriken fire or smashing through armor with chain swords, the Eldar enjoys it.
Eldar don't have the complete confidence as orks though, they're a little insecure about things, but when it gets down to the moment of killing, they are content.

and man, look at the Phoenix Lords. Maugan Ra, Maugan Ra's got such a dead shooty gun, he decided the only way to make it shootier was add something choppy to the end. He ripped a bio titan in half with his gun, he didn't shoot it, he hit it with his gun.

Jain Zar, her aspect, their WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH is enough to kill.

Karandras, Karandras has a giant power claw for one hand, a giant choppy chainsaw in the other. Met with this dilemma of where the dakka then goes (even though he already had some on his klaw), Karandras decided to wear Dakka on his face. This is the sort of innovation an ork would appreciate.

Terraneaux
03-11-2007, 00:19
Given these similarities (main difference being that eldar kill people for fun and make it look better while doing it), one has to wonder what the Old Ones were like to engineer two races that are that bloodthirsty. Almost makes you feel sorry for the Necrons.

TheMav80
03-11-2007, 00:38
Orkses is better then them poncy Eldar runties.

We's the biggest and strongest! :p

scarvet
03-11-2007, 00:43
Well actually, Ork can only have 4 ordnance: Shokk attack gun and 3 from heavy.
And no, Ork aint Eldar, they have mob rule. They are also T4 and have cheap core unit. They also lack of indestructible tanks (although you can have a Big-mek with kustom force field in the wagon give them obscure target and he can repair damage).
If you compare Dire avenger to shoota boyz, they are badly out numbered and they may fleet before the boyz do.
Loota ain't costing you 2 marines with a metabomb, can they can ride in the wagon to not get shoot at.
Tankbuster is different from dragons because they got range(!) fire power(!).

And yeah, can eldar have a warithlord for troops?

Thorisian
03-11-2007, 00:44
Eldar don't have the complete confidence as orks though, they're a little insecure about things, but when it gets down to the moment of killing, they are content.

and man, look at the Phoenix Lords. Maugan Ra, Maugan Ra's got such a dead shooty gun, he decided the only way to make it shootier was add something choppy to the end. He ripped a bio titan in half with his gun, he didn't shoot it, he hit it with his gun.

Jain Zar, her aspect, their WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH is enough to kill.

Karandras, Karandras has a giant power claw for one hand, a giant choppy chainsaw in the other. Met with this dilemma of where the dakka then goes (even though he already had some on his klaw), Karandras decided to wear Dakka on his face. This is the sort of innovation an ork would appreciate.

lol! At first I thought you were tripping on some bad squig comparing da boyz to da panzees, but after reading that I'd like to know where I can get the squigs you're smoking.

swamp_slug
03-11-2007, 00:57
Karandras, Karandras has a giant power claw for one hand, a giant choppy chainsaw in the other. Met with this dilemma of where the dakka then goes (even though he already had some on his klaw), Karandras decided to wear Dakka on his face. This is the sort of innovation an ork would appreciate.

Plus he has a thing for green

larabic
03-11-2007, 01:07
I got a chance to read over the entire codex and thought that the shootas were pretty good and liked how they organized the units. I never really thought about it but a unit of orks running around with dire avenger catapults might be kinda cool looking. Overall i like what they have done with the orks. Makes them an actual fighting force that can do what they are supposed to and do it fairly well.

Imperialis_Dominatus
03-11-2007, 01:20
Kikkoman, sick post. I like it. All xenos are the same, scum to be burned in the name of the Emperor! :evilgrin:

MuttMan
03-11-2007, 01:46
Anyone here think having 30 meganobs (20 as troops) all in AV14 front 13" movement per turn open-topped(assault) transports seems kinda.... Wicked. The two bosses and some extra battlewagons case one gets snuffed, very nice.

I had a little scuffle with a guy claiming Burnas still can vape tanks.... Right... Maybe the next codex pal. =p
(having 45 power weapons + 20 troop nobs sounds very nice tho!)

Gensuke626
03-11-2007, 02:14
. . . I feel dumber having read the Orks as compared to Eldar...I'm sorry, but saying that Orks and Eldar are the same based on superficial differences is just a bad call.
If Orks = Eldar
then Space Marines = Chaos Marines, cause they're all marines
and Imperial Guard = Tau Cause they're both shooty and have good tanks
and Tyranids = Dark Eldar Cause they're both fast, assaulty armies that can fleet

see, the comparisons can be made, but they're by no means good

kikkoman
03-11-2007, 04:08
lol! At first I thought you were tripping on some bad squig comparing da boyz to da panzees, but after reading that I'd like to know where I can get the squigs you're smoking.

hahah, the 2nd ed Eldar codex, mostly. I've seen Rogue Trader ork fluff too, and it's interesting. Even a grot can die with dignity ;_;

2nd ed Eldar codex, where it had this three part story going over a jetbike rider, farseer, and guardian warrior fighting on a world chaos recently conquored.

The jetbiker thinks about the sheer thrill of goin' fast and being shooty. He has to remind himself "we are on a mission..." when he's feeling too much the thrill of speed and combat. One of his squad members is fatally injured, but he uses his last moments to swing in for another strafe and then crash into the humans (psycho blastin'!)

The Farseer muses about their duty against chaos, protecting the universe, preserving their future. But deep down, he wonders, if the real reason they do it all is because they just love battle. He shakes off that thought, mentions that fighting against Chaos seems to enhance the bloodlust.

The Guardian... his is more just the experience of taking on the war aspect. His buddy the painter who wouldn't hurt a fly is now pretty excited about vaporising a cultist's head. His buddy the harpist gets his head blasted, the squad takes the casualty as it is and moves on.
The cool part of his story is not so much in the fighting though, but the Eldar's appreciation of aesthetics. In a ruined cathedral, the Guardian takes note of a beautiful stained glass image of 'their Emperor', and notes he will reference it in a future painting. This is interesting as it is not the "FILTHY WORTHLESS MONKEIGH!!" attitude, the guy is honestly impressed by this piece of human artwork, it is as good as any Eldar have produced.
And towards the end, when he is facing his death, his arm lying across the floor from his body, Chaos warrior standing over him. In that moment he is struck with complete clarity of the Chaos champion's armor. He notes the fine details, the curious design of the grotesque faces which seem to have a life of their own. The mortal enemy of the Eldar, Chaos, his death before him, there is no fear, there isn't even acceptance, the danger is merely a part of the moment, like a light breeze on a sunny day, a chaos warrior with a chain sword.

approaches that orky calm acceptance of life.
Think about the origin of these two groups in GW. In Rogue Trader, where most focus was on humans, orks and Eldar were the two most fleshed out sentient aliens, intended to be enemies to humans. Eldar were terrifying space pirates that left their paradise worlds for the pleasure of battle. Orks were numberless space pirates that forever sought out the next big battle.

and squigs=wraithbone :0!!!

Spleendokta
03-11-2007, 04:43
Orks dont have falcons, therefore Eldars win. The end.

grizzly ruin
03-11-2007, 05:13
Karandras, Karandras has a giant power claw for one hand, a giant choppy chainsaw in the other. Met with this dilemma of where the dakka then goes (even though he already had some on his klaw), Karandras decided to wear Dakka on his face. This is the sort of innovation an ork would appreciate.

Thank you for teh funny.






I'm still chuckling.

Gensuke626
03-11-2007, 05:16
Orks dont have falcons, therefore Eldars win. The end.

Orkz don't need falcons, therefore Orkz win. Orkzes always win.

Gromhir
03-11-2007, 10:53
Orks=Eldar.

Funny.

An Orkish Horde compares to an Elitist Eldar Force in what ways?

Orks are bigger, tougher, funnier and greener than Eldar.

But the backgrounds are quite similar.

kikkoman
03-11-2007, 19:25
howabout the 'eldarish' bits to orks? Hmmm, when we think Eldar we think.... art, gracefulness, yeah? That kinda foofy thing.

Hmmm, art. Music is important, right? Orks love music, they will even perform it in battle (or used to, Goff Rokk!!). That is a pursuit of art, many orks find artistic pleasure in combat. It's like being a gourmand even, every race they battle their own unique flavor. The spicy shootiness of Tau, the crunchiness of space marine durability, distinct aftertaste of tyranid swarms. Orks are even very fashion conscious!
What does red mean? It means speed. Blue? Lucky. Yellow is shooty I think?
black and white checkers for bein' dead 'ard. These colors are very important to the orks. Every ork knows them.
There is even a special unit for style conscious orks, the Flash Gits, who love to adorn themselves with unique bits and trinkets that express themselves. The only thing coming close to a Flash Git in color trauma is maybe a Harlequin or Eldar Corsair.
The construction of a Gargant, their great war machines are considered the highest works of art ork culture produces. Each one a personal manifestation of what a Mekboy believes it is to be an ork. It's heavy sturdy body, blaring cannons and buzzing saws are a meditation and celebration of the beauty of orkiness. Art in motion, as it happily stomps across the battlefield.

after typin all this... there ought to be a clan like the Blood axes, but that imitates Eldar, hahah. Imagine a green armored warboss with two shootas strapped to the side of his head, trying to sneak through the undergrowth with his power klaw rippin' down trees. Or a young nob so impressed at witnessing (and surviving) the carnage the murder god's incarnation wrought, he wants to be one, demanding his mekboy design for him a suit of burning bloody armor.

Perfect Organism
03-11-2007, 20:00
Both races are also fast moving, highly specialised and better at dealing damage than soaking it up (although the eldar are generally more so for all of those).

I really love that description of Karandras. Striking scorpions always struck me as slightly mental.

Another way to look at it is that Eldar are into Art Nouveau while the Orks are more like German expressionists...

Clang
03-11-2007, 22:19
anyone for a blood axe army of mercenaries fighting for the Eldar , carrying Eldar equipment 'improved'/repaired by Meks so it still counts as ork gear? it would at least be a unique look, and a great way to upset a few ork/eldar purists

Brother Siccarius
03-11-2007, 22:29
actually, its going to be orks > eldar ;)

It's always been that way.

Took a unit of current Ork Tankbustas against the last edition of Eldar and had a good duel between them and the dark reapers or whatever the dark panzees are called. The Panzees couldn't take out a single one of my rokkits as I had enough meatshield boyz in the unit to stop the panzee player from claiming any of them. I ended up burning his unit to a single exarch by the time I got to combat. It's a strange fact of randomness that while Rokkit Launchas will hit more often than they should, the other named launcher (I dare not curse my own rolls) will miss more often than it should.

Now, I was able to do great with only five rokkits in my unit, I can do so much more with three times that number.

Orks and eldar fighting are entirely different based simply on the fact that I will always have more no matter what I take, I will always have the lower BS, I will always be less pidgeon-holed into a particular role with my units (no matter what unit it is, I can still clobber in combat as well as any other), I will have the higher toughness and strength, and I will win because Orks is boss while Panzees is weedy..

Trickle
03-11-2007, 23:46
.....like to know where I can get the squigs you're smoking.

The picture had me lol'ing.

Spleendokta
03-11-2007, 23:54
Now, I was able to do great with only five rokkits in my unit, I can do so much more with three times that number.

When you 'find' the Ork Codex, read the rule about Glory Hoggers. This rule is gonna suck imho. We have 2 targets in range of the tank busta's. One is a tank that has had all its weapons blown off and immobilized and the other is a juicy squad of terminators. Guess which one your gonna have to shoot at thanks to glory boyz?

I have read the codex cover to cover thanks to the internets hehe. I'm not impressed with all the hype. Sure alot of nice things added, but just as many, if not more have been taken away that us Ork generals found useful.

Razarael
04-11-2007, 00:46
Glory Hoggers sounds awesome. Sure there may be terminators, but nuking a busted up tank would put a smile on my face. Anyway, if they did their job right the first time, it should already be destroyed.

Gensuke626
04-11-2007, 00:52
Glory Hoggers sounds awesome. Sure there may be terminators, but nuking a busted up tank would put a smile on my face. Anyway, if they did their job right the first time, it should already be destroyed.

the Glory Hogs rule has already been fixed by those who think. Here's what you do.

Step 1, Take a Trukk or a buggy/trakk
Step 2, Park it between Tankbustaz and vehicle you don't want them to shoot at.
Step 3, Repeat untill there are no visible tanks
Step 4 ????
Step 5, Profit!


And Clang, I already figured out how to upset ork/Eldar purists....I use eldar Guardians as my Grots...Once all my other boyz are painted I'm going to get to work on them, but I plan to hang chains from the wrists and ankles and make them look dirty and remove their waystones. The logic is this "We found some Panzees, but they're not smart enough to work like a grot, so we'll save some grots by usin useless panzee slaves as bullet catchers!"

kikkoman
04-11-2007, 04:33
anyone for a blood axe army of mercenaries fighting for the Eldar , carrying Eldar equipment 'improved'/repaired by Meks so it still counts as ork gear? it would at least be a unique look, and a great way to upset a few ork/eldar purists

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2225/1849843849_2937a26f48_o.png

MIND WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

Gensuke626
04-11-2007, 08:17
. . . That's it, I'm out of here.

nargileh
04-11-2007, 11:25
Orkz don't need falcons, therefore Orkz win. Orkzes always win.
Yup i concur, their goal is to fight war, therefor they always reach it. And if they weren't dying from fighting enemies they would be killing each other anyways, it's always a win-win situation for orks.

dcikgyurt
04-11-2007, 11:47
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2225/1849843849_2937a26f48_o.png

MIND WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

:D LOL :D

I'm sorry, I'm stealing that pic.

Emperor's Avenger
04-11-2007, 15:17
Eldar=Orks? Really? I always thought they were quite different.

DoctorTom
04-11-2007, 18:22
I've always found them different. I've found the Ork list (especially Speed Freeks) much better than the Eldar list for using Squat/Dwarf models :)

Brother Siccarius
04-11-2007, 18:31
When you 'find' the Ork Codex, read the rule about Glory Hoggers. This rule is gonna suck imho. We have 2 targets in range of the tank busta's. One is a tank that has had all its weapons blown off and immobilized and the other is a juicy squad of terminators. Guess which one your gonna have to shoot at thanks to glory boyz?

I have read the codex cover to cover thanks to the internets hehe. I'm not impressed with all the hype. Sure alot of nice things added, but just as many, if not more have been taken away that us Ork generals found useful.

Guess which one is better left to the Tank Bustas and which is better left to the Shokk attack gun? Besides, it's called cunnin' use you cover! If you have something like the Glory hogs rule, then you limit the field of vision of the Tank Bustas by strategic use of cover, if theres a big rock between them and the tank, they don't have to fire at it now do they?

Besides, everyone knows you duff the Termies with grots (They can't kill enough to get me out of combat, but I got enough attacks to just make sure you're going to take some casualties).

kikkoman
05-11-2007, 07:07
anyone for a blood axe army of mercenaries fighting for the Eldar , carrying Eldar equipment 'improved'/repaired by Meks so it still counts as ork gear? it would at least be a unique look, and a great way to upset a few ork/eldar purists

Eldar corsairs would make a good stand in for Flash Gits. Sure to be carrying plenty of exotic gear, battle experienced. Explain the low initiative as wearing light power fists. Explain toughness as carrying personal force fields. Deffkoptas as corsair bikers perhaps? The difference being ork dakkaguns outshine shuriken catapults completely heheh


and going the slave route, Eldar would make excellent shokk gun ammo, as their mega-bright n' tasty souls running through the hungry warp would guarantee the nastiest freaky **** to be coming after them on the way out.



hmmm, read more of the ork codex. The part about orks being impressioned by certain aspects of battle, gathering together to exemplify a certain path of warfare, hahah sounds like Aspect Warriors.

I can see Aspect Shrine imitation being popular with Stormboyz who have fought with the Eldar. The love of order, disipline, the complete combat mastery of an Exarch and the fluidity his squad moves as one would inspire any young greenskin down the road of stormboy. Sure beats imitating weedy humans.

and a fluffy reason for Eldar to work with orks- Eldar outcasts who follow the teachings of Uthan the Perverse. They seek to understand the True Way of orkiness, along with enjoying killin' and killin' and killin' stuff.