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View Full Version : Which loyalist are likely to turn to which Chaos God?



sabreu
05-11-2007, 00:32
While pursuing a modelling project (building a bunch of Chaos Lords/Sorceror) and a short story i'm beginning, I came to question that I would like some help with, because I'm not accustomed to every SM chapter traits. Basically, like the title suggests, which loyalist are likely to turn to which Chaos God?

For instance, It's not a stretch of the imagination for a Blood Raven that turns to Chaos predations would fall under the fold of Tzeentch, or a Space Wolf could feasibly become a berzerker in Khorne's company.

Can everyone here help me figure out who are good candidates for all four?

Templar Ben
05-11-2007, 00:36
Blood Angel fluff has them as very concerned with beauty and art so perhaps Slanesh.

Black Templar I would see as Khorne but since they chain their weapons to themselves to fight as long as possible perhaps there could be some keep the body living Nurgle worship.

Stranger
05-11-2007, 00:44
Blood Angel fluff has them as very concerned with beauty and art so perhaps Slanesh.

So slaanesh is the god of beauty now? :angel:

For them it's a tough choice, they either embrace their curse and go khorne, or learn to despise it and go emo*cough*nurgle.

Savant
05-11-2007, 00:45
Dark Angels - Undivided.

Blood Angels - Khorne? Slaanesh?

Space Wolves - Khorne?

White Scars - Undivided?

Imperial Fists - Nurgle.

Iron Hands - Nurgle.

Raven Guard - Raptor cults, probably.

Salamanders - Hmm... I honestly have no idea.

Ultramarines - It doesn't matter, it'd be hilarious no matter what.

IMO, of course!

sabreu
05-11-2007, 00:57
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Just to add a little more, here's what I'm currently building model wise, prior to posting the question (I'm naming all the models I do come up with, and then using them in my short stories);

Abydos Ramses, former techmarine of the Blood Ravens, turned Sorcerer of the Ruinous powers (Making him Slaanesh though, purely to go against the normal, rational conclusion!)

Octavius Galus, 1st Company veteran of the Ultramarines, turned traitoris extremis and devoted to Slaanesh. (He wanted to be the perfect example of a Codex Marine, and in his quest to be perfect, fell in a similar fashion as the Emperor's Children).

Volraan Argustos, former Chaplain of the Salamanders chapter, now fell Prime Epistol of the eldritch gods. (Undivided; His descent began from his desire to seperate his brothers from their familial ties to their planet and become 'Pure')

Still needing to figure quite a few more

Savant
05-11-2007, 01:01
Abydos Ramses, former techmarine of the Blood Ravens, turned Sorcerer of the Ruinous powers (Making him Slaanesh though, purely to go against the normal, rational conclusion!)

Yeeeah, lash dudn't have nothin' to do with that, then? :D

Stranger
05-11-2007, 01:10
Black Templars all the way khorne, what with their hate of psykers and fascination with chain weapons and close combat...

Dark Angels- I'd think some of the interrogatos-chaplains really enjoy their work, slaanesh or undivided.

Space Wolves- Either khorne, or nurgle, just for the sake of their rivalry with the TSs. Though with the former they even wouldn't need to change the iconography...

All the UM ofshoots would probably just go undivided...

None of the more obscure chapters spring to mind now... damnit...

sabreu
05-11-2007, 03:41
Yeeeah, lash dudn't have nothin' to do with that, then? :D

Actually...nope! :angel: Honestly, I love modelling Chaos, but I don't actually own a sizeable force to play with. Gamewise, I'm all Orks, and when I need a break Eldar/Necrons,. These guys I'm doing for a short story based on an on-going campaign between friends, and I pretty much am making enemies for myself. :D

Not to mention originality, of course. How many former techmarine gone sorceror (and not oblitirator, apparently) and devoted to Slaanesh not Tzeentch is there? :p It's a concept that's not been really explored before, so I want to tackle that.

I'm getting a good grasp of the chapters now, with everyones helps, but anyone want to help me with good motiffs to follow? The how and why to the action?

The Guy
05-11-2007, 16:01
But a techmarine could also follow Khorne... trying to fix borken stuff all day must get very stressful :rolleyes:

sabreu
05-11-2007, 16:25
Oo. Of course, come on! How else do all those traitor legions and chapters fix their machines?

Findecano
05-11-2007, 16:35
I'd change Iron hands to Slaanesh - Fulgrim tried to seduce ferrus, and iron hands seek perfection. Raven guard are not assualt squad specialists, which is a bit of an over generalisation. Nurgle would be most appropriate, as they tend to despair alot. As these are lords/sorcerors, you really should look into the reasons why someone of that skill/valour etc. would choose for his respective chaos gods.
captains: those seeking for perfection in their skill would most likely go for slaanesh. those who go to far with martial pride etc. would go khorne. those seeking the power to attain chapter master etc. promotions would go tzeentch. those who either go to far in trying to destroy something, no matter the cost, or despair due to some illness (DG). Some kind of achieve the goal no matter the costs attitude should be behind this. For Apothecaries, Nurgle, slaanesh and tzeentch are all possibilities. Chaplains: although unlikely, khorne, slaanesh. Techmarines: all are possibilities.
I assume these figures were already in high positions before they crossed the line. The chaos line is a very thin one though. I'd assume most of these figures already had borderline characterizations before they crossed the line, and they had to make a choice under severe combat stress. They were for instance betrayed/ had great odds against them etc. At that moment, the chaos that was already festering for a long time in their hearts fully revealed itself, and they crossed the line. They probably took at least a good part of their company with them.
I like the the blood ravens tech marine. He could have taken the blessing of the machine god thing too far, and started 'decorating' his vehicles to some kind of perfect ideal.
the Ultramarine I like too, perhaps he aquired a supposedly ancient codex astartes which he secretly took during a battle, which was actually bewitched by a sorceror to warp slowly.
The Salamander I really like. I've always liked the arrogance a SM might eventually get seeing his stature and the humans he might have to fight. He tends to slaanesh though, perhaps seeing his view on humans being weak and he being perfect, and arrogance over humans (high lords etc.) sending him to die in a war on some planet.
Lastly, I really like how you've taken chaos out of the stereotyped context of how the gods warped the ideals of their respective first founding legions.

sabreu
05-11-2007, 16:54
:D
I like the the blood ravens tech marine. He could have taken the blessing of the machine god thing too far, and started 'decorating' his vehicles to some kind of perfect ideal.

I was also tinkering with the idea that he's a prize in a contestation between Slaanesh and Tzeentch. Slaanesh wants him because of his excesses, Tzeentch wants him because he will play a vital role in due time. As a reaction, his body has suffered too many 'gifts' along the way although not wanted! (I finished his model, as a side note, and instead of an arm he has cables. He replaced the squiggly tenticles one of those deities gave him. :p)


the Ultramarine I like too, perhaps he aquired a supposedly ancient codex astartes which he secretly took during a battle, which was actually bewitched by a sorceror to warp slowly.

Consider most of that looted.


The Salamander I really like. I've always liked the arrogance a SM might eventually get seeing his stature and the humans he might have to fight. He tends to slaanesh though, perhaps seeing his view on humans being weak and he being perfect, and arrogance over humans (high lords etc.) sending him to die in a war on some planet.

Sounds good, but I've already have two devoted attendants for Slaanesh. I figured the Salamander Chaplains overbearing conceit and his belief of his superiority over lesser mortals to draw him to Khorne more so than Slaanesh. Being a Chaplain though, I want him to run around still citing his litanies of hate and for the Emperor for now. Leave room for more development later on.


Lastly, I really like how you've taken chaos out of the stereotyped context of how the gods warped the ideals of their respective first founding legions.

Thanks! Didn't think I got too in depth yet (really hoping more get involved and help me explore these themes) but I'm going to keep on trucking.

Findecano
05-11-2007, 18:53
hm yeah... the salamander being khorne sounds more plausible.

nurgle_boy
05-11-2007, 18:58
IIRC, Khorne was also described (at least in old fantasy fluff) as being a god of technology as well, as that itself is an aspect of war.

this could potentially lead iron hands down that path.

Imperialis_Dominatus
05-11-2007, 20:42
Blood Angel fluff has them as very concerned with beauty and art so perhaps Slanesh.


For them it's a tough choice, they either embrace their curse and go khorne, or learn to despise it and go emo*cough*nurgle.


Blood Angels - Khorne? Slaanesh?

Hmmm, merg. How many BA are you planning on turning? There are reasons why they'd be, as a Chapter, nigh impossible to turn, of all the Loyalists. I've never seen an actual Chaos BA model for that reason. Just curious.

Noserenda
06-11-2007, 00:13
We were thinking about this the other day as part of an alternative Horus Heresy Scenario and this is roughly what we bashed out...

Space Wolves: Khorne (Straightforward)
Iron Hands: Nurgle (Same kinda thing as Deathguard, pursuit of toughness)
Imperial Fists: Khorne (Anger! Vengence!)
Dark Angels: Tnzeentch (They do love their plots...)
Blood Angels: Slannesh (Quest for Perfection/Beauty)
Ultramarines*: Slannesh (Perfect tactics, Pride)
White Scars*: Khorne (Barbarians lolz)
Salamanders*: Nurgle (Replace flame with Pus, Tough+Stubborn)
Raven Guard*: Tnzeetch (Trickery, Subversive)

The * denotes legions id probably assume would go "Atheist" Chaos. Ive got lots more thoughts on most of the above if people want clarification.

On a side note, straight swap wise in roles heres my thoughts on that...

Space Wolves: World Eaters (Gar! Rend!)
Iron Hands: Death Guard (Straight Swop in positions)
Imperial Fists: Iron Warriors (Straight swop in positions)
Dark Angels: Thousand Sons (Early Traitors, Deceit)
Blood Angels: Emperors Children (Nancy Boys :D)
Ultramarines: Black legion (Bit weak, but coordinators)
White Scars: Night lords (Raiders o doom)
Salamanders: Word Bearers... (Links to families = cults)
Raven Guard: Alpha legion (Sneaky Swine)

sabreu
06-11-2007, 00:39
Hmmm, merg. How many BA are you planning on turning? There are reasons why they'd be, as a Chapter, nigh impossible to turn, of all the Loyalists. I've never seen an actual Chaos BA model for that reason. Just curious.


Curous, what would those reasons be? If at the very least I think it's feasible a Death Company marine could be snatched by Khorne or papa Nurgle (Granddaddy offering his own, debased sort of 'cure' to the blood curse!) I'm just toying with that idea though, and would like your input Imperialis.

Arkley
06-11-2007, 00:41
My Take...

Space Wolves: World Eaters (Total lack of control they would love it.)
Iron Hands: Emps Children they seek perfection.
Imperial Fists: Iron Warriors - It's a given...
Dark Angels: Word Bearers - The whole told off, being left behind...
Blood Angels: Emperors Children/Black Legion - I can see some giving into pleasure.
Ultramarines: Black legion - They are that :)
White Scars:
Salamanders:
Raven Guard: Night Lords - Terror Tactics...

White Scars and Salamanders are the only 2 I can't really place in the Chaos Powers..

I also can't see any of the rest of the first founding going Nurgle...

sabreu
06-11-2007, 01:14
To fill in the blanks for the stretches Arkley and Noserenda;

White Scars: A SM from this chapter, with his Martial Pride and tribal outlook, could be a prime candidate for Khorne as well.

Salamanders: A SM from this chapter are known to remain devoted to their familial ties (or at least to their planet's communities). This, for me, is the biggest hurtle. Salamanders are definitely the most human of the super human space marines, but this could also be the key to exploit a Salamander. Example; A plague breaks out consuming a great number of locales at an alarming rate. Said SM hears voices; eventually servant of Nurgle intices SM with a deal; turn to chaos and the plagues will be lifted. So...really, with them, ok nothing as obvious. :p

Dark Angels are unique as their the only legion that could reference itself. The good side and the bad side...now only if we knew which one was which. :D

Noserenda
06-11-2007, 03:03
The Iron hands I cant see turning to Slannesh in the same way the EC did, because their quests for perfection where different. The IH want to be more efficent rather than perfect. And that and the inhuman/tougness aspect makes me lean towards Nurgle more. It was a devotion to being "tough" that got the Death Gaurd after all...

An idea for the Salamanders, perhaps if their familial ties could be corrupted... Then you have recruits coming in tainted, the taint spreads and before you know it you have religious chaos marines with hordes of cultists. Better? :angel:

Imperialis_Dominatus
06-11-2007, 07:22
On the Blood Angels: they have a special hatred for Chaos cause the most diabolical traitor of all time (the one Ezekyle Abaddon tries and fails to emulate) subjected their genetic and spiritual father to agony beyond imagining and killed him, and this haunts them to this day, as some of them (Death Company) descend into madness, thirsting for blood, reliving the final moments of sheer torment Sanguinius endured at the hands of the Warmaster, who was bloated with the might of the Chaos Gods. Yeah, they hate Chaos.

Gdolkin
06-11-2007, 13:10
Well, Imperialis Dominatus, we know that the First Founding Legions hate Chaos and their fallen treacherous brothers above all else, that's a given and this thread kinda suspends that basic fact as a hypothetical thought-experiment.. That said, I'm going to say that the Iron Hands would never go for Slaanesh as despite their quest for perfection, the way they conceive of and pursue that perfection is, as someone already put, more in terms of efficiency than excess, and their hatred of the weaknesses of the flesh (sensualism, indulgence, emotion etc.) pretty much rules out a Slaaneshi route.. That's why their Nemesis-relationship with the Emperor's Children works so well, they both seek perfection but from such different perspectives that that 'perfection' isn't really the same sort of thing.. If the Iron Hands were to turn to Chaos (Ferrus Forbid!) I'd say it'd likely be to Khorne, in line with their hatred of weakness (Slaughter the weak! Toughen up humanity by weeding out those unable to fight back! By spilling blood, cleaving bodies and taking skulls we eradicate weak flesh!), or possibly Nurgle as His blessings turn the frailty and corruptibility of flesh into strength and endurance.. but the rust and pus would bugger up their bionics :)

Supremearchmarshal
06-11-2007, 13:18
Space Wolves: Khorne (obvious)
Iron Hands: Undivided (they'd most likely be like IW)
Imperial Fists: Khorne (war god)
Dark Angels: Tzeentch (plotting, secrecy)
Blood Angels: Khorne or Slaanesh (lust for battle)
Ultramarines: Undivided or Slaanesh (perfection)
White Scars: hard to say... Slaanesh (thrills) or maybe Tzeentch (cunning)
Salamanders: Undivided or Nurgle maybe...
Raven Guard: Nurgle (despair)

sabreu
06-11-2007, 20:59
Ah, Imperialis, thanks for you insight.

-Everyone-
I think we have a good grasp of the First Founding Legions. What other chapters can we discuss here? Who would a Howling Griffon turn to? A white Consul? A Crimson Fist or Lamentor?


-Stuff I've done because of this thread-

Iron Commander Proteus, Apostate of the Clan that is no More, attendant of Khorne and veteran of the Pyrhaa IV Campaign:

He departed from his clan after being reprimanded for summarily executing 9/10 of a planets population after invading orks broke through the PDF line of defense and smashed through to the Iron Hands tactical center, killing 1/3 of the mobilizing forces. In his anger after the orks were driven off he viral bombed the planet, although this act caused him to fall under sharp scrutiny, coming as an overly excessive recourse. Dismayed that his own men would show such weakness, he purged his ranks of the weak, and those that had supported him would soon discover in the years to follow they had taken their first steps unto the path of damnation.

One of the Chosen to accompany him will be Erophon, the Half-Fallen. Eternally caught between the black rage and his own twisted sanity, he is but a puppet of Khorne, a pet gifted to Proteus. In his visions he sees the sundry death of Sanguinious, only his vision has been corrupt and twisted. Coupled with the bittersweet voices of the warp, rapping against his brain, he knows only peace when he drenches himself in blood. Any blood. He has embodied the worst and most excessive trait of Khorne...

Pooky
06-11-2007, 21:42
I think it's a little odd that people say that someone would want to turn traitor to nurgle... Last I checked, no one would really want to be covered in sores and have pus leaking everywhere and be in constant pain. Isn't it more a matter that nurgle chooses you and you just have to put up with it?

Also I see Iron Hands turning to... Iron Warriors! So they would turn to Undivided.

sabreu
06-11-2007, 21:50
The thing is Pooky, from what I've seen those that go to Nurgle are generally already infected by something plague like to begin with him OR fear death to an extreme and he offers them solutions to both of those things. Now, rather than wanting pus and sores, wanting to be immune to death and the weakness of old age (which is just dying to an extent) would be a good hook for Nurgle and those that pursue his patronage?

The gods hooks are generally:

Khorne = Martial pride, Combat
Slaanesh = Excess, Beauty
Tzeentch = Knowledge, Manipulation
Nurgle = (Freedom of) Pain, Death

Shibboleth
07-11-2007, 03:58
I too would have said Iron Hands as Undivided. They'd rip off any fleshly mutation and replace it with bionics just like IWs.