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Lord Anathir
09-09-2005, 16:33
Well....this is the army that i plan to take to atourney coming up in a couple of weeks.

Prince, Dragon, Loremaster, Scroll, Armor of Protection, Great Weapon
Commander, Lion Guard, Heavy Armor, Shield, POH
Lvl 1 Mage, Scroll x2
10 Archers
5 Silverhelms
19 Spears wFull Command + Lion Standard (with commander)
2 Chariots
5 Dragon Princes wSB + C + Standard of Balance
2 Eagles
2 RBT

Dragon: Goes around and doest the dirty stuff, i have to protect him properly as he doesnt have much in terms of archers. Ive got the scroll and extra DD, as he cant take anything else more worthwile except soem more armor.

Archers, RBT: Firebase, archers are excellent, they let me take out skirmishing light armor/t troops without wasting my rbt shot.

Spears: Stubborn unit of spears holds what i want in place, i inluded lion standard to make them immune to fear, terror, and the commander makes em immune to panic as well.

SH: Good, solid, cheap support unit. and its core.

Chariots: Good, cheap hitting power, every high elf army should have at least 2.

Dragon Princes: I chose DP over another unit of helms so i could take the standard of balance. It helps against frenzy, and that stubborn unit of temple guard + slann that we all hate.

Eagles: Mages, Warmachines, Baiting, Redirecting.

Mage: 2 scrolls and some magic defense.

What do you think?

Wreckage
09-09-2005, 17:09
The army seems to be lacking heart and soul. It consists primarily of supporting elements.

The Prince... doesn't the loremaster honour say he cant wear armor anymore? (Or am I going insane?)

Instead of a scroll caddy I would recommend something more versatile. A level 2 mage with seer and jewel of the dusk is capable of both defensive and offensive magic. When fighting a magic heavy opponent he could cast drain magic at level 9 with 3 dice, followed by fortune is fickle with 2 dice. If you're fighting against someone with no magic, when you pick your spells you could pick fury of khaine (use 3 dice) and arrow attraction (use 2 dice). Only 30 points more for MUCH more versatility and style.

I like your archery firebase.

I really like your stubborn/immune to psychology spear regiment.

The chariots and eagles are solid.

shadowprince
09-09-2005, 20:43
The prince can't have armor with loremaster, he can with the jewel thing though. Next you are leaving out the most powerful bit of the high elfs. A strong magic. Not saying to overpower in it but 2 lv 1 mages, i just don't see this list working. at least drop the commander and get a level 2 mage with something useful on him.

Lord Anathir
09-09-2005, 21:38
hmmmm...intersting...so far ive got 1) lack of heart and soul (not exactly sure what i can do to fix that, although with a dragon i think it does) and 2) Lack of Magic

Whether to use or not to use magic always bugs me. So lets weigh the pros and cons.

Pros:
- With a lot of magical goodies, (especially banner of sorcery, jewel of dusk, seer) you can do more damage and have more potential in the magic phase with 2 lvl 2s then a normal magic army. (ie empire) With two lvl 2s, you can get a 7-9 PD, a Ring, Scroll and a mage that can choose his spells, cast with an extra dice and gets an extra spell.
- the majority of armies can not stop heavy magic.

Cons
- Expensive, mages and magical goodies that make our magic more effective are not cheap at all.
- If i take a mage lord, i cant take a dragon.
- A few armies that are almost always magic heavy or natually resiliant and will have a good chance of dispelling it: Dwarves and Khorne (natural), and VC, Lizzies, Tzeentch all have magic phases to rival your own. That doesnt mean other armies can't load up on mages. Skaven, Dark Elves, Tomb Kings....they all got good magic potential. In other words, in a tournament, almost everyone will be sure to pack a scrolsl or a few DD.
- Magic is unreliable. Miscasts, bad dice rolling, it all happens.
- High Elves got an auto +1 to dispell, making them a natually better dispelling army.
- Mages can get killed.

Based on these reasons, i believe it is better to go magic defensive when i want to base my army on combat. The missile battery in this army makes up somewhat for the lack of magic, and the dragon is not something to be overlooked.

Wreckage
09-09-2005, 23:20
Cons
- Expensive, mages and magical goodies that make our magic more effective are not cheap at all.
- If i take a mage lord, i cant take a dragon.
- A few armies that are almost always magic heavy or natually resiliant and will have a good chance of dispelling it: Dwarves and Khorne (natural), and VC, Lizzies, Tzeentch all have magic phases to rival your own. That doesnt mean other armies can't load up on mages. Skaven, Dark Elves, Tomb Kings....they all got good magic potential. In other words, in a tournament, almost everyone will be sure to pack a scrolsl or a few DD.
- Magic is unreliable. Miscasts, bad dice rolling, it all happens.
- High Elves got an auto +1 to dispell, making them a natually better dispelling army.
- Mages can get killed.

Of course they can get killed. using a single mage is more reliable than you might think...
If I'm not mistaken High Elf Mages get +1 to dispel attempts, so once he's dead you lose that bonus. This is a good reason to include at least one in the first place.
Granted the Mage I suggested may not do much more than a scroll caddy for defense, but his offensive potential is more than twice as good for a mere 30 points more.
Not to mention taking a scroll caddy, although somewhat commonplace, is a rather unimaginative solution.

Lord Anathir
10-09-2005, 01:55
true. But i dont want offensive magic. I want solid magic defense. 3 Scrolls and 4 DD unfortunately isnt even enough in my eyes, but sometimes everyone has to play with a few risks. hmmm... I think after the mages are dead, high elves still get +1 to dispell. I am not sure though.

Eldacar
10-09-2005, 03:55
The prince can't have armor with loremaster, he can with the jewel thing though.
Yes, he can. He just can't cast spells if he has armour and the Loremaster honour.


I think after the mages are dead, high elves still get +1 to dispell. I am not sure though.
If the Prince on Dragon is still alive after they're dead, then you will get the +1 to Dispel.


Next you are leaving out the most powerful bit of the high elfs. A strong magic. Not saying to overpower in it but 2 lv 1 mages, i just don't see this list working. at least drop the commander and get a level 2 mage with something useful on him.
Magic is not the be all and end all. He doesn't want offensive magic, he wants defence. There's a big difference.

shadowprince
10-09-2005, 06:50
well yes i realize this but he isn't very strong defensivly on magic either accept for those three scrolls, which will be burned up pretty quikly with only 4 dispel dice. I like te prince on the dragon but would like the commander gone maby.

Eldacar
10-09-2005, 09:09
4 DD and 3 scrolls is an average magic defence. Just because not everybody goes for the 7+DD and 3+ scroll defence doesn't mean that what he has isn't all right. It depends on the quality of the opponents. If an opponent is extremely WAACy and takes heavy magic at every chance, then there's a problem with it. If the opponents are moderate players, then there shouldn't be as much that is wrong.

feintstar
10-09-2005, 10:25
But who are we to give tactical advice to our mighty and redoubtable Lord Anathir, veteran of a thousand battles, peerless warrior whose shining armour lights up the night's sky with the glimmering embers of hope in the dark dusk of the High Elves??

While your list is fair and resplendant, my lord, capably of overcoming many an obstacle, ne'er finding an army to which it has no counter, yet i feel that this very strength is its weakness. An elf of all trades does not make a swordmaster. Not in terms of its effectiveness, nay, its heart is that which I ponder, for having no central battle line, it suffers from a distinct lack of glorious number.

My response, therefore, might be thus, o fair and wondrous Lord (and prithee do not mark that I am overstaying my humble station, for this mere trifle of a suggestion is merely a strategem to take into account:

Take out 1 Chariot and the archers, freeing up enough points to throw in another unit of spearmen - 17 or so. This unit then gets the commander, (6 x 3) while the other unit keeps its command and bumps to 20. That way, you can pull your turned flank stubborn trick with a slightly more expendable unit, while still having another strong infantry unit to provide ranks, number, and lots of spear attacks. Also, more looks better on the field, and with a dragon running around, he's got to have ranks of glittering spears to loom over. :)

Eldacar
11-09-2005, 13:03
But who are we to give tactical advice to our mighty and redoubtable Lord Anathir, veteran of a thousand battles, peerless warrior whose shining armour lights up the night's sky with the glimmering embers of hope in the dark dusk of the High Elves??
I would. ;)


Take out 1 Chariot and the archers, freeing up enough points to throw in another unit of spearmen - 17 or so.
While the list could stand to get another unit of Spearmen, I don't think that taking away the Chariot is the right idea there. Two chariots will always work better than one. If anything, I'd remove the Dragon Princes, since you already have the support units available in the form of the SH, Eagles, and two Chariots.

shadowprince
11-09-2005, 19:46
A. Normally from what i have played its 5DD and 2 scrolls is roughly the average. Also most people in the tournaments i have gone to normally prefer to runa level 4 wizard and 1 other. Not saying to add an archmage but maby a level 2 mage would be helpfull, with one of the rings. I understand you don't want to hit hard on magic but most people with moderate magic can burn through most this list. Tomb kings Vampires tzeentch will have a pretty easy time with this list.

Lord Anathir
12-09-2005, 01:58
But who are we to give tactical advice to our mighty and redoubtable Lord Anathir, veteran of a thousand battles, peerless warrior whose shining armour lights up the night's sky with the glimmering embers of hope in the dark dusk of the High Elves??

You know....i kind a like that. ;)

@ Eldacar
Lmao Eldacar, i wonder how many of those 4000 asur.org posts are spam? jks...i learned a lot from you.

about that army...i dotn want to drop the DP for sure cuz of the banner they carry. Alot of stubborn units out there. Worried alot about slann and the other stubborn, frenzy, hatred stuff there is out there. Plus, it also makes then immune to fear + terror. So its really a Lion Standard that i pay 20 extra points for it to be able to negate opponents phyc.
I think i will be alright on magic defense. Ive played with a lot of offensive magic armies and all i can say that I dont think it is worth the points for something unreliable and if it goes off exactly the way you want it, its not going to win the game for you anyways.
About adding numbers, ive played with two units of 20 spears for a long long time...and I want to try to use just 1 unit of spears, but stubborn and immune to fear + terror. I intend to move this unit around, not stantionary infront of my missile battery as Ive often done before. Archers will be deployed on a hill, but i will probably separate the RBT so my opponent has to choose which 'missile battery' to try to attack. In the end, the main goal is to not have any position that i have to hold, but be free to move around with all units, including infantry (thus minimizing deployment mistakes). Its something new that i am looking forward to trying. And i kinda liek the dragon, its never failed me yet.

Eldacar
12-09-2005, 09:19
Tomb kings Vampires tzeentch will have a pretty easy time with this list.
I wouldn't worry so much about Tzeentch. Often, they won't be getting very good S rolls, because they do have variable strength rather than the set strength that other Lores have access to.

ElfGuy
12-09-2005, 18:46
You don't need any command or the Standard of Balance on Dragon Princes. You have Great Eagles to deal with frenzy and big stubborn blocks are best avoided anyway. You could use the points saved from those upgrades to get five Shadow Warriors.

The Shadow Warriors will be helpful when warmachine and mage hunting. Magic and warmachines both pose large threats to your army and getting rid of them will be imperative. They can act as another expedable unit for luring frenzied units. Having another march blocker handy can be helpful. Obviously they can assist in the shooting phase as well. Flank charging an engaged unit to force a panic test is an option. Being able to scout will help the Shadow Warriors to perform all the above tasks.

You have plenty of magic defence, maybe to much. If the threat of magic seems great, you just need to make eliminating casters a larger priority.

Equip your Commander with a Great Weapon in case you charge and need to inflict some wounds.

Good luck at the tournament.

Eldacar
13-09-2005, 09:27
Equip your Commander with a Great Weapon in case you charge and need to inflict some wounds.
A lance serves just as well as a Great Weapon when charging. If you feel that having successive strength in the following round is necessary, then you probably shouldn't have charged to begin with. You break on the charge, hence, a lance does just as well, generally better, than a GW.

ElfGuy
13-09-2005, 17:27
Isn't the Commander on foot? A lance will do him no good at all.

Eldacar
14-09-2005, 07:40
Isn't the Commander on foot? A lance will do him no good at all.
Sorry about that one. I thought you were talking about the Dragon Prince for some reason. But in any case, a Great Weapon is designed for lasting combat rounds. Elves break when they charge. As such, a Great Weapon isn't as useful, IMO.

Lord Anathir
18-09-2005, 03:20
well...
i played a Tomb King army a couple of days ago. I got a victory. Highlights:
Dragon: Destroyed a unit of 3 chariots, the hierophant, and teamed up to destory the big block of skellies.
Dragon Princes: Destoryed a second unit of 3 chariots, flanked ushabti, if dice were 'average' i would have wiped out the unit, but instead i wiffed all attacks, his three attacks all hit, all wounded and i failed 3 armor saves. Their immune to phyc banner made them stick around and tied them up unti lthe spearmen smashed them apart.
Spears: Destroyed swarms, ushabti and then big block of skellies with dragon in rear and chariot in the side. I love em...stubborn, immune to fear,terror and panic. just beautiful.
Chariots: Didnt do much...will advance them up a flank next time. one failed a fear test.
Silverhelms: wasted them. i got outmaneouvered cuz of their stupid magic and they got torn apart by the unit of tomb guard + tomb king. Will keep them close to spears next time for flanking and use the dragon princes to advance with the dragon next time.
Eagles: Magnificent. They helped alot...although both died, they made sure the tomb king was far away from his skellies so they couldnt get into the big combat in the centre nor use his ld for crumbling.
Archers + RBT: Dissapointed. They caused some wounds on the ushabti...but apart from that...they got wasted against the tomb scorpion. 1 RBT and 10 archers died.
At the end of the game he had his tomb king + tomb guard + tomb scorpion + 2 mages left. I had my dragon, my mage, spears, half of the dp, both chariots, 1 RBT. It was somewhere between a victory and minor victory.

What do you think? Ive got 2 months before the tourney... so i can charge things a little. Ive got more silverhelms, swordmasters another chariot at my disposal.