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Darth Alec
05-11-2007, 17:04
Now that my jungle ogres are done, I'm looking at my next army, and VC stood out.

I love zombies, and the idea of them storming through a city (conversion plan), really appeals to me.

But I have no intention of starting an army that has little potential in actuall combat. What would I need to make it really efficient, if it is at all possible?

Sideros Peltarion
05-11-2007, 21:04
To be honest, I don't actually know, but a few years ago, like you, I wanted to do an all Zombie army, with it led by a cabal of Necromancers. Never got round to it in the end, and never knew if it would work even then.
:skull:

SilverWarlock
05-11-2007, 21:09
I would wait to see the new army book

in the current one it is possible if slightly boring and not overwhelmingly powerful (generally uses 10 levels of magic).

if rumors are true, vampire counts will need a vampire (so less magic) zombies go down in strength (and price) and there are some changes to the magic (which may or may not be bad for the zombie horde).

all in all, wait for the book, it may be a better plan to do a ghost themed army (just based on the rumors of black knights going through terrain and wraiths being back in as a unit).

A mostly ethereal army could be hilarious (and make people want to kill you).

Darth Alec
05-11-2007, 22:21
The new book is in march/april right?

The thing is, with christmas coming up I need to think something out. There's also a tournament in a year that I have to be ready for. As much as having a bunch of ghosts is "good", I am really more interested in the fun part.

Having a bunch of zombies marching around could create some fun, and if it gets cheaper, i can field more. 90 zombies is at max 500 points, so I still have plenty of room for characters.

I just realised how cheap zombies are...

3 necro's and a vamp count + 500 points still lets me get some random stuff.

theunwantedbeing
05-11-2007, 22:34
Well a zombie hoarde can work....you often need several necromancers to back it up though....the book of arkhan and the other one....the -1 to hit within 6" item as well.

Just raise loads of zombies...make big units, lots of them.

forgottenlor
06-11-2007, 10:02
I just played a zombie horde by proxy and won a game against a chaos army, though it was close. at 2500 points, I had 5 units of zombies, 2 commandless units of knights, 2 units of direwolves, a unit of ghouls, a unit of bats, 4 necromancers, and 2 banshees. The ability to raise units where you want and charge then the same turn can be brutal. I ran over a lone chaos wizard in the second turn this way and killed him.

Darth Alec
06-11-2007, 20:06
That's what I'm planning on.

Tie up and surround them with zombies, then turn around and crush them with harder units.

Heretic Burner
06-11-2007, 21:27
Yes a zombie horde is alread an extremely effective army, only to get more effective with the new book where zombies actually are reduced in price! Darth Alec's idea of tying up units the zombies for other units has proven to be quite a powerful army to win with.

I say go for it, this type of army is likely to be very powerful in the right hands particularly with the new book and the already huge boost given to it by the 7th edition rules.

brambleten
06-11-2007, 21:32
dont zombies go down to S2 and T2 in the new book?
if so, they are wounding elves and men on 5s. thats embarrasing

Darth Alec
06-11-2007, 21:38
Even if they go down to T2 S2, they will then cost like, 3 points. Which makes me have enough for 150 zombies for 500 points.

The enitre plan was to tie them up with zombies, maybe rise a unit to flank/rear just long enough for Cav/guard/character/something to come along and kill them.

Lord Raneus
06-11-2007, 21:43
Zambahs will still be more expensive though, due to Fear and Unbreakable. So you're probably looking at 5 points, maybe. I don't know how much they were worth before.

Darth Alec
06-11-2007, 21:45
They are 5 points now (or 4), so if they went down they'd go to 3.

They are really cheap already, but now they don't die on a 2+ against half the units out there.

Khorghan
06-11-2007, 21:49
another rumor going around was that zombies can no longer pursue, this might cause a problem, maybe stick the vampire on a steed and in a unit of KotBK and have him chase down the units that the zombies arnt holding down.

Darth Alec
06-11-2007, 21:58
Apparently they do a bunch of wounds instead. But sticking my combat guy in a combat unit is very likely.

But no matter what, zombies are cheap, they are awsome tarpits, and they are Zombies.

jonnywright104
07-11-2007, 11:24
from an extremely good inside source, zombies will now be T4!! and ive heard that they are skirmish units now aswel.

oh, and if a zombie kills a model in combat with 1 starting wound- that model becomes a zombie!! yyyyeeeeey

and your all forgetting that zombies arent meant to be hard?! just a huge irritation which gets in the way!! perfect for holding a unit up till your bloodthirsty vampire lord swoops in to take his pickings of the local folk

Dranthar
07-11-2007, 14:30
Current rumours (from multiple sources) have zombies at S2, probably T2. They don't pursue but cause additional wounds to units they break. They also can't be joined by characters.

Assuming those above changes are all that happen with them, I'm guessing they'll go down from 6pts (current cost) to 4pts. If they were 3pts then they'd be half price, which is the equivalent of just giving the current 6pt zombies an extra wound.
T2 makes zombies easier to kill, but not twice as easy to kill. Hence a 3 pt T2 zombie would be too good IMO.

Zombies will be 4pts each. You heard it here first. ;)

Darth Alec
07-11-2007, 17:35
Maybe, but S2 make them useless fighters (even more then now), which could cause a problem. But being a cheap, fear causeing tarpit is still pretty nice.


Skirmishing zombies? What Johnny said just sounds like wishing.

brambleten
07-11-2007, 18:25
jonnywright104
there is an edit button you know ;)
someone found it :)

Captain Brown
07-11-2007, 19:59
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Goldenwolf
08-11-2007, 19:21
I use Zombies in my army now, but against certain units they get vaporized, especially by combat Res. They can tarpit for a turn or two, but you need units in position to flank attack said tarpitted unit. I have had a unit of 40 zombies wiped out in 1 turn by a unit of 7 Wardancers, and by 1 turn I mean my turn then their turn. If they get reduced in strength and Toughness, and already have a crappy WS, then expect them to be horribly mauled, and then lose even more by CR.

So if you use zombies make sure you also have some hammer units.

mortetvie
09-11-2007, 01:12
Zombies are just a tool to hold up units. If ALL you have is zombies, I don't think that will do very well against a good opponent. You will also rely more on your characters than most other armies so you'll have to be careful in protecting them.

DeathlessDraich
09-11-2007, 09:54
As unwantedbeing mentioned a Zombie horde will work if you have the Cursed Book and Book of Arkhan as well.
Include a vampire lord with good saves - Flayed Hauberk etc., a thrall and 2 necros.

There is a good likelihood that you will flank (if not immediately then in the next turn) the enemy and gain up to +7 static CR (rear, flank, 3 ranks and outnumber). Enough to destroy most core units.

Some units will knock out all warmachines, archers, shooting units and weak units. Even if they don't manage this by turn 3, there will be sufficient units to take on the elite enemy units which your Thrall and Vampire lord will have to eventually engage.

Against elites - charge frontally with a small unit (to hold the enemy in place) and in the flank with a bigger unit with vampires when the small zombie unit in front is about to be vanquished. - 7X3 Swordmasters flank charged by a vampire with 20 zombies - Swordmasters kill 4 on average. The Vampire needs to inflict just 1 wound to win outright - outnumbered by Fear Causer.

Darth Alec
09-11-2007, 23:41
What deathless is saying was basicly my plan. Tie them up with Zombies, then crunch them from the flank/rear with tougher guys.

90 zombies is a good quarter of my army, but it's still worth it.

Luisjoey
11-11-2007, 02:33
Zombies are cannon fodder (sad this game doesn´t have a shoot the closest thing rule) But they can hold a turn or two enemies with high points and that could do a big dissaster.

The trouble is that they never attack back, and the game resolution exterminate them!

Maybe the new codex would bring something that let them be better, maybe more toughness or Wounds!!!! yes yes sound cheesy but something must be done.

Dark Alec have a point... use them to flank with strong units... today i did something like that and charged with my cavalry!

therisnosaurus
11-11-2007, 06:58
yeah, I'm thinking zombies next ed will end up as the most awesome point grinder units around. 4ppm for an unbreakable, take a unit of 30, slap them in front of an enemy lord and his 1 attack buddies (greatswords, white lions, stormvermin, tombguard yadda yadda) and lose maybe ten a turn, bust out your res spells and get them popping back up like daisies and you've got yourself a 120 pt unit that can hold up 4-500 points of crack troops all game. Don't even need to beat them, they've already made their points back...

Course, doesn't work so well against units like plague monks, khorne chaos, witch elves, HE spears etc. anything that can feasibly knock out more than 6 zombies a turn on a perfect round starts looking a little scary, since you won't beat them with that standard 5CR of three ranks, standard, outnumber (+flanks). Assuming they have a standard, if you lose more than 5 guys a turn, even slapping another unit in the flank isn't gonna help much...

Darth Alec
11-11-2007, 09:54
Just keeping them held up won't win the war.

But once I have held them up, smacking a unit of Black Knights, Ghouls or something similar in the sides/rear to crunch them. It's a simple tactic really, as long as I can keep my Zombie alive for a round or two.

eleveninches
12-11-2007, 12:05
They are 5 points now (or 4), so if they went down they'd go to 3.
ZOmbies are 6 points each. They are only 5 points each in a necromancer list.

Zombie hordes could work. Admittedly, they always strike last, but you dont expect skeletons to cause many wounds (even with spears), so zombies are better value for points. You will need at least 7-8 magic levels to make it work in 2000 points though. Plus, you will need something hard-hitting to back them up. 2 coaches and a unit of 8 knights with 9 wolves and a unit of bat swarms should do nicely.

dodicula
16-11-2007, 17:27
Current rumours (from multiple sources) have zombies at S2, probably T2. They don't pursue but cause additional wounds to units they break. They also can't be joined by characters.

Assuming those above changes are all that happen with them, I'm guessing they'll go down from 6pts (current cost) to 4pts. If they were 3pts then they'd be half price, which is the equivalent of just giving the current 6pt zombies an extra wound.
T2 makes zombies easier to kill, but not twice as easy to kill. Hence a 3 pt T2 zombie would be too good IMO.

Zombies will be 4pts each. You heard it here first. ;)

They may not pursue but you can just raise a unit of zombies in the flee path

beezlebubbles
16-11-2007, 19:11
If you get enough zombies in a unit it doesnt matter how many of your guys get killed you could still outnumber and you cause fear so they flee unless they roll snake eyes so your tougher guys have little to do.

eleveninches
19-11-2007, 11:40
or, use the lahmian list, and get a huge zombie unit with a dwarf thane (with oath stone, 2xRoFury, RoCleaving and an oath stone) so that you always get rank bonus.

forgottenlor
20-11-2007, 10:55
I played a zombie army a while back with 4 units, and 4 necromancers and a couple of unit of knights as support a unit of grave guard to hold the middle and a unit of ghouls and a unit of bats to discourage anyone from going around my flanks. My friend played undivided chaos and I beat him, though his dice rolls were not the best. It can work. You stick units in place, attack them in the flanks et. The key here is magic and lots of it.

DeathlessDraich
20-11-2007, 11:47
4 units only?
I use 8 blocks of Zombies and 1 small unit - no massive victories but no losses either

Bernardinatti
20-11-2007, 12:48
I play against the vampire counts regularly and i find skeletons more deadly for the fact that they can get a decent save against strength 3 troopers. And can save 1 in 6 models against my cavalry...zombies just get chewed through so quickly and easily its very hard for a vampire count that doesn't COMPLETELY dominant the magic phase to keep them "alive" for more than a round or two..(i play high elves)...so against me i have found skeletons MORE deadly and scary than zombies, for the fact that they can deny you even 1 or 2 wounds which is worth way more in its points.

CHOOBER SNIPES
20-11-2007, 21:14
@beezlebubbles
I think u hav to win the combat to get fear+outnumber--->autobreak, so it does matter how many they kill as that goes to their combat res.

noneshallpass!
20-01-2008, 21:27
I have heard about people having 2k armys of only 200ish zombies and 4 necromancers.

That is suposed to be very hard to beat.. Never tried it myself though.

Defender of Ulthuan
21-01-2008, 15:04
I have the feeling we will be seeing much more in the way of zombie hoards now.
With the drop to 4pts/model, and the only unit able to have new units raised of, not to mention the rumors say you can upgrade your vampires to have better magic, with the ability to pick their spells (i.e.-summon 3D6 zombies per turn with summon undead hoarde). So, it should be fairly simple to win with a zombie maze and a unit of KotBK and some BK units to hammer for your zombie anvil.

Defender

P.S.- Isn't there a rumor circulating about ward saves vs. combat res?

theunwantedbeing
21-01-2008, 15:22
Zombie hoardes work...they dont do a whole lot of damage but they tend to be very good at denying victory points and holding table quarters when employed successfully.
It's just VP denial on an armywide scale really.....you'll use it a few times and get bored of rarely killing anything and buy yourself some hard hitting unit.

Neknoh
21-01-2008, 15:23
problem now however, is that according to most rumours, characters wont be able to join Zombie units any longer.

NecroNurgle
23-01-2008, 16:11
from an extremely good inside source, zombies will now be T4!! and ive heard that they are skirmish units now aswel.

oh, and if a zombie kills a model in combat with 1 starting wound- that model becomes a zombie!! yyyyeeeeey

and your all forgetting that zombies arent meant to be hard?! just a huge irritation which gets in the way!! perfect for holding a unit up till your bloodthirsty vampire lord swoops in to take his pickings of the local folk

I know this is really old. But that's pretty funny.