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Pooky
06-11-2007, 22:22
This is going to sound really weird and even dumb, but why is the Imperium still using paper when it's the 41M? I was looking at Captain Stern and he has a book on his Termie armor. And I've seen GD entries where there are models with books, the DA have books on their vehicles and there is still some paper around the place... If it's the far future, wouldn't they be reading off PDA's or data screens or something?

malika
06-11-2007, 22:30
I always assumed the scrolls and books arent all made of paper but are more something along the lines of (holo)screens that look like scrolls and books.

carl
06-11-2007, 22:32
Nope, the simple fact is that advanced data screens like what your describing are advanced peices of kit in the 41stM. they can't produce anywhere near enough to hand them out as a replacment to paper. in effect they use paper becuase they don't have any other mass producable alternative.

sabreu
06-11-2007, 22:33
They do use all the cool pda and gadgets. paper though is still going to be something to put down things you don't want some person getting access to. Not to mention, things that look like paper on the models like the DA vehicles, are usually just Icons and not really paper.

vyper
06-11-2007, 22:33
Because PDA's don't really seem much like Holy Relics.

Davout
06-11-2007, 22:34
Books look cooler.

They do you use data slates and holo records, but some people still use paper and ink (or blood depending on what your reading:))

I mean why are we still using books, they are a waste or resources and they take up a ton of space, simple people like the heft and feel of a book (I like the smell)

I asume the same goes for our friends in the 41M

2_heads_talking
06-11-2007, 22:36
I would imagine that even something as "basic" as a PDA would be highly valued tech in the 41st millenium, especially after losing so much after the Dark Age of Technology.

They may still have some around, just not enough to give out to the masses. So, paper is still the most common way to go.

sabreu
06-11-2007, 22:37
PDA = Servo Skull, Servitor

Also, for a civilization that has interstellar travel, Warp Gellar Fields, Holograph projects, and other nice pieces of kits, they aren't going to have difficulty in font reproduction. And yes, the Imperium is in a technological decline, however they are still millenia ahead of us at current day today. If we have something today, they are going to have it.

P.S.: For everyone against PDA's in the far future in 40k, your seriously going to tell me they know how to kit out a man into a cyborg with a computer brain (servitor) but forgot how to make something hand held you can type in dates?

carl
06-11-2007, 22:41
For everyone against PDA's in the far future in 40k, your seriously going to tell me they know how to kit out a man into a cyborg with a computer brain (servitor) but forgot how to make something hand held you can type in dates?

They havent forgoten, SM helmet displays are the same thing only more advanced, it just IS NOT mass producable on a scale that can replace paper, remeber EVERY peice of tech in the 41M is hand assebeled, or at least assebeled by servitiors who are probably infiriour to modern production line bots. thats why bolt weapons can't be mass isued, it just takes so much longer to make them and their ammo than it does a lasgun and laspack, theirs just less part at the end of the day.

NosMo
06-11-2007, 22:46
Well as any IT guy will tell you, Hard copy doesn't crash, freeze or need to be rebooted.
But that is just me. :P

NosMo



The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, “You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I’m just not close enough to get the job done.”

sabreu
06-11-2007, 22:48
Under that logic, the imperium would have been destroyed along time ago. No, they only have limited production capabilities for warmachines, some technologies, and certain weapons like Bolters and Plasma Weapons. Lasguns are known for being built in mass production, which indicates to us the Imperium still knows how to mass produce. Not everything the imperium uses is a sacred relic of technology.

Green-is-best
06-11-2007, 23:21
They use that fancy paper with no corners, like in Battlestar Galactica. That's how you know its the future!

Avaron
06-11-2007, 23:31
not every planet in the imperium is as advanced some are very basic. also of the trillion or so people in the imperium of man the majority are on the poor end so computers and such are not all that common.

inquisitors and such tend to use alot of data processors and stuff atleast when they are not in the feild.

I would guess that alot of the models have paper objects on them because in the middle of a war supplies can be blocked, people can be cut off from reserves and various explosions and energy weapons can wreck a digital object fast.

sabreu
06-11-2007, 23:37
although in the same scenario paper doesn't mitigate any of those things, and is more likely to burn in said explosions. No, simple tech that we have today is common, except for Feral Worlds. Otherwise the Emperium could not operate on the galactic scale that it does. The Imperial Gaurd uses holo picts and communication devices that far surpass our own in mass quantities.

legio mortis
06-11-2007, 23:39
also of the trillion or so people in the imperium of man the majority are on the poor end so computers and such are not all that common.
No, there is no way to tell if the majority is rich or poor. The Imperium is just so diverse that there is no way to tell.

About the original question, many IG officers use data slates, which seem to be a sort of advanced PDA that is connected to the overall tac-logis and communication network. But Guardsmen use paper for emergencies.

carl
06-11-2007, 23:47
*sigh* remeber tech is divine in 40K, that means when puting somthing togethjer littinaies have to be said CONSTANTLY, every screw inserted needs a littinay, every component pushed into place, twisted in postion, lubricant applied, e.t.c also needs some sort of prayer to the machne god.

Some stuff can probably be turned over to Servitors, but anything beyond the very bare basics will need an actual techpreist or similar to handle the item himself. the less pats, the less handling and the faster the production, (since the servitors vastly outnumber the tech preists). Anything on the complexity of a full ad type item is going to need a LOT opf techpreist interferance.

And no holo-projecters aren't common, at best theirs 1 per regiment. it's a lot no questions, but it isn't like a bolter or a civilian opad thingy, it's going to be wel taken care of and protected, a regiment will need to replace it's projector only infrequently, and that if every regiment is permantly deployed as a 1 regiment formation. In larger wars it will only be the overall commander and his staff that will use ONE projector over most of the thertare of war. Only if oporating outside of the direct control of overall HQ will a regiment actually need to use it's holo-projector, since otherwise it's getting orders direct from HQ and dosen't need it's projector because HQ will have worked all the plans out, their won't be any need for it.

a pad on the other hand will be very frequently replaced as their easilly lost or damaged if mass issued. In the end they'll be wel restricted, less so than holo-projectors, (allthough I doubt the 1 per officer line abit, seems still too many considered the supposed complexity of the stuff from the power armour descriptions).

thearchiver
06-11-2007, 23:53
Paper is easy to mass produce, thou in 40k it may not in fact be made with wood fiber anymore, it could be some sort of thin plastic.

There are things like data slates that get mentioned in IG fluff a lot, it would appear they have have basic pda functions. The problem with mass use of pda's and such is power a flat pda is not a useful piece of kit.Paper is easy to mass produce, thou in 40k it may not in fact be made with wood fiber anymore, it could be some sort of thin plastic.

There are things like data slates that get mentioned in IG fluff a lot, it would appear they have basic pda functions.

The problem with mass use of pda's and such is power a flat pda is not a useful piece of kit. As humble guardsmen I prefer my Guardsman handbook as a printed book over a pda is saves me the worry of having to keep it charged so I don’t get shoot by a commissar for having a flat pda.

As for the books that Grey Knight and such have chained to their armour, I imagine them to be hand written giving them the holy relic theme, and the hand written tomb has more moxie than chaining a pda to my armour.

Argastes
07-11-2007, 00:12
Ahem, back to the OP's question instead of all this business about IG communications equipment....

Pooky, you'll notice that most of the models you have seen holding books are not 'ordinary' people, but Imperial agents whose duties and/or beliefs are strongly religious in some way. The books and scrolls on Grey Knights, Inquisitors, Dark Angels, etc., all have some religious or spiritual significance, or ceremonial symbolism; they're not just mundane data-storage objects. Remember that the Imperium and many of it's organizations still place a high value on mysticism and ceremony despite their technical sophistication. A Dark Angel doesn't carry a book because it holds useful info that he wants to have access to in combat; he carries it because it's probably an ancient manuscript of religious significance to his Chapter's cult. It's like an icon or talisman of faith to him. The same goes for the tiny copy of the Liber Daemonica on each Grey Knight's chest; if they just viewed them as ordinary information storage units, then yeah, they could just as easily use a "dataslate" or whatever, but these books have religious and ceremonial significance that would be lessened if you transcribed the contents into a PDA. A PDA or dataslate lacks the traditional symbolism and spiritual significance of an ancient tome that was painstakingly handwritten in blessed inks by a devoted scribe; and to the people who carry books in 40K, those things are more important than actual content.

EDIT: Beaten by thearchiver!

thearchiver
07-11-2007, 00:35
Me 1 Argastes 0 :)

sabreu
07-11-2007, 00:59
*sigh* remeber tech is divine in 40K, that means when puting somthing togethjer littinaies have to be said CONSTANTLY, every screw inserted needs a littinay, every component pushed into place, twisted in postion, lubricant applied, e.t.c also needs some sort of prayer to the machne god.

Most of the paragraphs with this type of thinking are usually talking about warmachines. Get me a quote from a source that isn't talking about a bolter, plasma weapon, titan or ordinati and I'll agree that everything that has electricity in it is considered holy and hand made. :rolleyes:

Otherwise, if it is true, that would mean for the most part only Ad-Mech could ever make a light bulb. Which raises the question, how many gaurdsmen does it take to install said light bulb?



Some stuff can probably be turned over to Servitors, but anything beyond the very bare basics will need an actual techpreist or similar to handle the item himself. the less pats, the less handling and the faster the production, (since the servitors vastly outnumber the tech preists). Anything on the complexity of a full ad type item is going to need a LOT opf techpreist interferance.

Or they could just build a standard conveyor belt in a factory and let the servitors maintain said factory. We had factories in the industrial age, ya know.


And no holo-projecters aren't common, at best theirs 1 per regiment. it's a lot no questions, but it isn't like a bolter or a civilian opad thingy, it's going to be wel taken care of and protected, a regiment will need to replace it's projector only infrequently, and that if every regiment is permantly deployed as a 1 regiment formation. In larger wars it will only be the overall commander and his staff that will use ONE projector over most of the thertare of war. Only if oporating outside of the direct control of overall HQ will a regiment actually need to use it's holo-projector, since otherwise it's getting orders direct from HQ and dosen't need it's projector because HQ will have worked all the plans out, their won't be any need for it.

Right. That means...wait for it... that it would just take a single squad of CSM to disrupt half of the Cadian army.


a pad on the other hand will be very frequently replaced as their easilly lost or damaged if mass issued. In the end they'll be wel restricted, less so than holo-projectors, (allthough I doubt the 1 per officer line abit, seems still too many considered the supposed complexity of the stuff from the power armour descriptions).

Military Equipment isn't lost so easily as you would make us believe. :p

Kage2020
07-11-2007, 01:19
This is going to sound really weird and even dumb, but why is the Imperium still using paper when it's the 41M?
Basically? It seems to fit with the retrotech/Canticle for Leibowitz feel that they've got going on.


If it's the far future, wouldn't they be reading off PDA's or data screens or something?
My personal stance is that technology is hidden in the 40k universe. Thus many of the "scrolls" that you see are "digital paper" with a computer and storage media in the main core of the scroll. It's not really that high-tech and, well, if you're to believe the hype digital paper is going to be horrendously cheap to produce.


Nope, the simple fact is that advanced data screens like what your describing are advanced peices of kit in the 41stM.
Not sure that I quite believe you on that one. It's cutting edge technology now, but the whole retrotech thing can be done to death, especially when coupled with the whole superstition/religion angle. IMHO, that is.

Ah well. As always it comes down to whatever twiddles your biscuit.

Kage

Philip S
07-11-2007, 01:34
Digital paper. The type that doesn't need a back light and looks like normal paper (parchment).

The type that could one day allow words to shift on the page like magic to the touch. If the correct coded charge is applied, and when the charge is taken away the words freeze (or snap back).

Wonderful stuff. Who wants a PDA, don't the guard have those?

As for the Ad-Mec, well, WI-FI style direct interfacing and virtual utopia (:p).

Philip

bertcom1
07-11-2007, 01:37
Actual manuscripts, in the form of paper, vellum, or other material have an importance in the 40k universe because of their longevity.
Also, compatibility/readability. It's a book. Operable using Mk. 1 Eyeball and derivatives. No other hardware necessary.
Distribution of the information is also an easy task. Printing press, or scribes. This is relatively unskilled work.


Real world examples to consider.
The Domesday book is readable nearly 1000 years after it was written. A BBC project of similar scope from the 1980's isn't because the laserdiscs and computers used are utterly obsolete.
Archive services have found laser-printed material does not keep, because the toner falls off the page.
Many early Compact Discs have problems with corrosion of the disc.
Magnetic storage, e.g. hard drives, have limited lifespans.

Pooky
07-11-2007, 01:51
Well as any IT guy will tell you, Hard copy doesn't crash, freeze or need to be rebooted.


True, but don't let the local tech marine/ priest hear you say that. They would just want to apply the litany of fixing or something, i.e. hit it and swear at it till it works...

Philip S
07-11-2007, 01:51
Actual manuscripts, in the form of paper, vellum, or other material have an importance in the 40k universe because of their longevity.
Future e-paper may have just as much longevity, maybe far more than vellum. This 40K e-paper may last thousands of years, and be impervious to rot (made out of compressed sedimentary non-biodegradable carrier bag 'rock' mined on ancient terra :p)

If no charge is applied it is static and just like a regular book. Hand it to an Ad-Mec priest and it may spring to life.

Imagine a book 10,000 years old, suddenly pops back into life with a touch of the machine god's chosen?

Ohhh. wow. spooky (can I have a look! What's it say!)

Philip

Pooky
07-11-2007, 01:54
Ok ok ok, so it may be paper... but last I checked there aren't that many trees around the place in the 41M. It's all industrial or Hive or barren or something equally harsh for trees to grow.

(Sorry if I sound like a tree hugging hippie but I just don't think there's any trees in the 41M. If they need oxygen I'm sure there are mass air purifiers/ converters that have been developed on Mars and shipped out to the colonies)

Philip S
07-11-2007, 02:03
Ok ok ok, so it may be paper...
Not 'real' paper like we have.

As you point out there aren't that many trees in 40K, and proper vellum is made out of animal skin (plenty of humans in 40K ;)).

Chances are it's not paper as we know it.

Philip

Kage2020
07-11-2007, 02:35
Aren't... many... trees? (Or, more appropriate, materials that you can synthesis paper-like material from?)

Strange...

Kage

Philip S
07-11-2007, 02:47
Playing.

P

Pooky
07-11-2007, 03:30
Chances are it's not paper as we know it.


True... It could be made from anything then...

Lisiecki
07-11-2007, 04:08
They havent forgoten, SM helmet displays are the same thing only more advanced,.

Yes, and they have no idea how to make space marine armour any more

legio mortis
07-11-2007, 04:33
Yes, and they have no idea how to make space marine armour any more
Right... Which is why they can still found chapters?

Lisiecki
07-11-2007, 04:38
double post

Lisiecki
07-11-2007, 04:45
Right... Which is why they can still found chapters?
Space Marine Codex Page 11
Space Marine Power armour is the synthesis of several technologies that predate even the age of strife. Suites that survive are venerated by the chapters tech marines, diligently preserved and embellished.
Page 22 Artificer armour is forged by master craftsmen and is even more ancient and ornate than a normal suit of power armour

I mean, i guess they could be filling codex books with lies for the sheer hell of it

legio mortis
07-11-2007, 04:54
Nothing there says that they can't produce it anymore. They keep old ones because it's much easier to repair them rather than sending out an order to the nearest forge world and waiting potentially months for your order to arrive.

Grimbad
07-11-2007, 05:40
Digital paper is all well and good but when the enemy assassin mortally wounds you before you best him in combat and you can only wheeze as verbal communication, you're going to want REAL PAPER to write you last command on in your own life blood.

Basically, real paper is cool.

Kriegstreiber
07-11-2007, 10:16
As for paper did you notice that 40k humans never have to bring away their personal waste. It*s like Star Trek. No water closets / toilettes anywhere. Maybe they*re using the 3 shells like Demolition Man.

Cheers, Matze

carl
07-11-2007, 10:52
As for paper did you notice that 40k humans never have to bring away their personal waste. It*s like Star Trek. No water closets / toilettes anywhere. Maybe they*re using the 3 shells like Demolition Man.

Cheers, Matze


Actually their are several well marked toilets on the various trek ships, their just so far in the background of 90% of the shots that no one notices them.

Kriegstreiber
07-11-2007, 11:12
Carl 1 Me 0

Vaulkhar
07-11-2007, 12:02
Wasn't it the original Enterprise that had exactly one toilet to cover about 400 crew?

Back on the subject of paper/shells, I'd say it's the symbolism. Besides, a suitably heavy hardback tome makes fo an excellent backup weapon in close combat.

Lisiecki
07-11-2007, 12:14
Space Marine Power armour is the synthesis of several technologies that predate even the age of strife. Suites that survive are venerated by the chapters tech marines, diligently preserved and embellished.



Nothing there says that they can't produce it anymore. They keep old ones because it's much easier to repair them rather than sending out an order to the nearest forge world and waiting potentially months for your order to arrive.


I was always under the impression that "technology from before the age of strife" meant exactly that



These are those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned.

Lisiecki
07-11-2007, 12:17
This is going to sound really weird and even dumb, but why is the Imperium still using paper when it's the 41M? I was looking at Captain Stern and he has a book on his Termie armor. And I've seen GD entries where there are models with books, the DA have books on their vehicles and there is still some paper around the place... If it's the far future, wouldn't they be reading off PDA's or data screens or something?

In all honesty, Every example ive seen of people writing in 40k is that they wright with quills. now there is some sort of computer storage system, but im under the impression its to valuable or to rare to use for most things.
the best example of this i think is the daughter of the emperor in the 3rd ed book

Sai-Lauren
07-11-2007, 12:29
Why does the Imperium use paper? Well, why do we use paper? It's the same answer - because it's cheap, it works, doesn't rely on battery power, is virtually permenant and is pretty sturdy and durable compared to electronics.


Not 'real' paper like we have.

As you point out there aren't that many trees in 40K, and proper vellum is made out of animal skin (plenty of humans in 40K ).

Chances are it's not paper as we know it.

Philip
Erm, I'd say it's exactly like paper as we know it - there's lots of Imperial planets out there which are agri-worlds, it's no great stretch to say that some are used to grow trees for paper production - as an example, the church is likely to take chosen trees from certain worlds for it's most sacred books.

And that's only one way to get paper - it can also be made from the fibres from animal dung (QI a couple of weeks ago had the panel's notepads made from paper made from Elephant dung, whilst there's a firm somewhere in Wales (I think) that makes it from Sheep droppings).

Collect it, clean it up (also making a nice liquid fertilizer with what's washed out), then process as for normal wood pulp.

Or you can use long grasses and reeds, or even manufactured polymerised cellulose strands.

Philip S
07-11-2007, 12:40
Space Marine Codex Page 11
Space Marine Power armour is the synthesis of several technologies that predate even the age of strife. Suites that survive are venerated by the chapters tech marines, diligently preserved and embellished.
The technology does indeed predate the Age of Strife hailing from the Dark Age of Technology (as do most 40K technologies), but power armour is not Dark Age design. Power armour was custom designed at the beginning of the great crusade with help from Mars in the very beginning of the Terra-Mars alliance: the core of the Imperium.


Page 22 Artificer armour is forged by master craftsmen and is even more ancient and ornate than a normal suit of power armour
This is relative. Earlier armour may include parts from marks of armour that may date back to the crusade, and parts may have belonged to heroes of that time. As such, a marine wearing this type of armour would feel truly honoured.


In all honesty, Every example ive seen of people writing in 40k is that they wright with quills.
Petronellea in False Gods has an ‘gold tiped mneno-quill’ with ‘orgabic stem-crystals’ picking up and translating her thoughts into words, on to a data slate.

This ‘data slate’ may just be a single sheet or block of this super 40K e-paper I mentioned earlier inserted into the charging frame (with full encryption). When a page is done, tear it out and it is instantly frozen ‘as is’ and there after acts like normal (super tough) paper. Put the page back into the correct encrypted charging frame and you can modify it, put it in the wrong charging frame and you can’t.

Even a ‘Quill’ is not simple in 40K, nor is a ‘data slate’ (not always a PDA!)

Philip

carl
07-11-2007, 12:43
Wasn't it the original Enterprise that had exactly one toilet to cover about 400 crew?


I'm not sure TBH about ToS, but I do know TNG and VGR had toilets at the back of the bridge somwhere, I remeber reading about them in a star trek referance book, (one of the companions I think).

I also belive a few where shown in the corridors of the Enterprise-D and the Promanade of DS9.

Philip S
07-11-2007, 12:44
there's lots of Imperial planets out there which are agri-worlds, it's no great stretch to say that some are used to grow trees for paper production
Yes, I was joking/ sarcastic (hence the ‘playing’ post).

Funny how two people have jump on that, but ‘made out of compressed sedimentary non-biodegradable carrier bag 'rock' mined on ancient terra :p' and no one bats an eyelid.

:D

Philip

Richter Kless
07-11-2007, 15:08
Isn´t it obvious? Everyone can read a book if he has eyes, but all these mumbo jumbo technologies require other mumbo jumbo technologies to read.

You expect someone on a medieval world to read or use a dataslate?

In the Imperium, which is so diverse, a book is something everyone understands and can use.

That and it adds nicely to the whole gothic theme.

Philip S
07-11-2007, 15:18
Isn´t it obvious? Everyone can read a book if he has eyes, but all these mumbo jumbo technologies require other mumbo jumbo technologies to read.

You expect someone on a medieval world to read or use a dataslate?

In the Imperium, which is so diverse, a book is something everyone understands and can use.

That and it adds nicely to the whole gothic theme.
Um, that kinda matches dataslates are I image them and described them (see above). A book does not have to be low tech, and all the benefits of a book are preserved with 'e-paper'.

Philip

Keichi246
07-11-2007, 18:24
I've always imagined the Imperium uses a lot of paper simply *because* of the Dark Age of Technology.

There's a reason why the humans don't build (many)AIs in the 40k universe. During the Dark Age of Technology - AIs went all "Skynet" and tried to take over. Digital storage would lose a lot of it's advantages when you have to fight a ruthless, bloodthirsty AI just to get to your MP3s. :)

Humanity was forever changed by that. The don't use robots - they use servitors. Why? Because there are strict rules about what can and can not be "automated" without at least SOME biological material in the loop. That way - if there IS some sort of revolt - the virus bombs will still permananently deactivate them...

Like many people said above - paper has a LOT of relative advantages; and it's disadvantages are ameliorated by the nature of the Imperium. Technology may be limited - but they got manpower to burn. Need 20 copies of a document? Well - servitors are cheap and plentiful.

The Imperium doesn't CARE about efficiency. It uses brute force because - frankly - it's what they got - and it works damn well...

Emperor's Grace
07-11-2007, 19:41
I'm not sure TBH about ToS, but I do know TNG and VGR had toilets at the back of the bridge somwhere, I remeber reading about them in a star trek referance book, (one of the companions I think).

I also belive a few where shown in the corridors of the Enterprise-D and the Promanade of DS9.

Actually, the naval designer that laid out the deck plans for the original tech manual has WC's everywhere. The bridge has two, if memory serves, hidden in a corridor that is just outside the bridge (and off-camera). Staterooms for crew also have facilities laid out (again, off-camera corners usually); they even get appropriately smaller or more "shared" as your rank descends.

Sai-Lauren
08-11-2007, 08:32
Yes, I was joking/ sarcastic (hence the ‘playing’ post).

Funny how two people have jump on that, but ‘made out of compressed sedimentary non-biodegradable carrier bag 'rock' mined on ancient terra :p' and no one bats an eyelid.

:D

Philip

Didn't really understand what the "playing" was about and didn't see that bit about the "rock", although I think it's a non-starter because it probably all got mined out somewhere around the middle of the 3rd millenium. ;)

I can see electronic paper/books being used by some people, especially those on starships to save on weight and volume, but for the majority of people in the imperium, I think it would be paper.

Kage2020
08-11-2007, 20:32
Digital paper is all well and good but when the enemy assassin mortally wounds you before you best him in combat and you can only wheeze as verbal communication, you're going to want REAL PAPER to write you last command on in your own life blood.

Basically, real paper is cool.
And, of course, there is nothing to say that digital paper could not record this information either. Think "Etchosketch."

Kage

bertcom1
08-11-2007, 20:53
Philip S style e-paper also has something else to think about.

For people who do not need to understand how something works, then it is useful for the device to be as simple to use as possible.

Writing is simple. People from any Imperial world where writing exists, would be able to use a writing device, regardless of what the world is like technologically.

Even if it's a case of "This is magic paper, you need a magic pen to write on it. Use the magic paper when it's important."

As opposed to learning how to push buttons connected to a magic box, connected by magic wires to other magic boxes that display written things on magic sheets of glass.

When you think about it, typing does seem a rather silly way of going about things, doesn't it?

Kage2020
09-11-2007, 00:11
Well, that depends. If you're talking about QWERTY typing, then perhaps. At the same time, there are other methods that might be more appropriate...

Kage

Brother Siccarius
09-11-2007, 01:01
This is going to sound really weird and even dumb, but why is the Imperium still using paper when it's the 41M? I was looking at Captain Stern and he has a book on his Termie armor. And I've seen GD entries where there are models with books, the DA have books on their vehicles and there is still some paper around the place... If it's the far future, wouldn't they be reading off PDA's or data screens or something?

The sacred and powerful archeotech creations of mankind before the Age of Strife are reserved for only the most wealthy and powerful. They lost how to make it and like everything else it's rare. It's also easier to make and use long scrolls of paper or parchment than engineering trillions of PDAs.

Pooky
09-11-2007, 15:30
The sacred and powerful archeotech creations of mankind before the Age of Strife are reserved for only the most wealthy and powerful. They lost how to make it and like everything else it's rare. It's also easier to make and use long scrolls of paper or parchment than engineering trillions of PDAs.

The can't make some PDAs but they can churn out the lasguns and all the other IG equipment like there is no tomorrow? :confused:

Kage2020
09-11-2007, 15:37
If the PDA's in question had sharpened edges and GW brought out an Adeptus Administratum army? PDA's would become incredibly common, spinning and whizzing around the battlefield... :eyebrows: :rolleyes:

Kage

SV_Harlequin
09-11-2007, 16:12
There's also the idea that "Paper" in the 41m might not be made from trees anymore but some form of plastic or another artifical material. Kinda like in dystopian scifi stuff only the really wealthy can afford "real"/orginial things and the rest have to do wiht substitutes/imitations like that of Wood, paper, cloned/artifical pets.

Chilltouch
09-11-2007, 16:21
Paper in 40K - because a string of data-slates hanging from your belt does not look cool.

Captain Micha
09-11-2007, 17:03
Simply put this, I always imagine that it is a true paper. On the battlefield. They might even keep hard copies for the same reasons we do. If the computer system crashes. your out of luck info wise at least for a little while.

Secondly about power armor. If the Imperium was truly as mindless in it's comprehension of anything more complicated than a crowbar it would cease to function (which is how gw loves to try to portray it. right along with their ig whipping boys that require space marine aid every time someone drops a hat)

The -general- knowledge of things might be diminished, but I refuse to believe that humans could -devolve- so thoroughly as to not even understand -how- or -why- things are made the way they are and still function or hope to function against the things like Necrons, Tyranid, Eldar... Tau.... they'd just steam roll right over a race that would honestly if that were true, be using sticks and rocks to beat people. Not lasguns, bolters etc etc

Also, paper is cool. Even if everyone on the planet -now- had pdas do you think they'd quit making books? I don't think so.

Easy E
09-11-2007, 17:20
The can't make some PDAs but they can churn out the lasguns and all the other IG equipment like there is no tomorrow? :confused:

They could make thousands of PDAs, but instead they are making thousands of lasguns. :p

Brother Siccarius
09-11-2007, 21:04
Simply put this, I always imagine that it is a true paper. On the battlefield. They might even keep hard copies for the same reasons we do. If the computer system crashes. your out of luck info wise at least for a little while.

Secondly about power armor. If the Imperium was truly as mindless in it's comprehension of anything more complicated than a crowbar it would cease to function (which is how gw loves to try to portray it. right along with their ig whipping boys that require space marine aid every time someone drops a hat)

The -general- knowledge of things might be diminished, but I refuse to believe that humans could -devolve- so thoroughly as to not even understand -how- or -why- things are made the way they are and still function or hope to function against the things like Necrons, Tyranid, Eldar... Tau.... they'd just steam roll right over a race that would honestly if that were true, be using sticks and rocks to beat people. Not lasguns, bolters etc etc

Also, paper is cool. Even if everyone on the planet -now- had pdas do you think they'd quit making books? I don't think so.

Don't sell them short, they know quite well how it works, but they've thrown so much mystisism in there it's an entirely different subject. It's like when people talk to their electronic devices or yell at them when things go wrong, only magnified over 20 thousand years.

However, just because they know how a lasgun works, doesn't mean they understand at all how a PDA works if they haven't seen one before. They lack forward momentum in technology, but they have plenty of sideways and backwards momentum.


The can't make some PDAs but they can churn out the lasguns and all the other IG equipment like there is no tomorrow? :confused:
You see, Lasgun manufacturing continued on well after the Age of Strife simply because the warlords on each planet needed to keep up their own special troops for protection. Besides lasguns are the AK-47s of the 41st millennium, you drop it in the sand and pick it up, fire it a few times and it's good. You take out the battery pack when it's empty and wait for the solar collectors on it to refill it, or toss it in a fire for an extra boost. It can endure a lot before it's gone.

PDAs...well...you ever drop a PDA or IPod on metal or concrete?

I know people who could produce a heart monitor smaller than an IPod, but that doesn't mean that they could make an IPod without first seeing one opened in front of them or seeing a blueprint of one.