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2thesword
07-11-2007, 21:24
are warrior priests bound by the normal remains in play restrictions for their prayers?

...specifically if they have the unbreakable prayer in play and use another prayer eg damage one - is the unbreakable prayer lost?

My initial feeling was that prayers are treated like spells - they have a bound power level, are dispelled as normal and would otherwise follow the rules for RIP spells.

My mate suggested that because the book specifically states that they are prays (ie gifts from gods) and that the priests are not wizards they wouldnt follow the normal wizard RIP rules. But we couldnt find any other alternate set of rules (hence us looking for a FAQ).

on a related note - is there an FAQ or Errata for the current 7th ed empire book? I looked online and couldnt find one.

ZomboCom
07-11-2007, 21:55
Nothing says they are treated any differently to anyone else.

DeathlessDraich
08-11-2007, 09:38
There is no FAQ although one is needed.

This has been discussed many times before.

The arguments in favour of your friend is as follows:
1) An RIP is negated when the Wizard [same wizard] "*attempts to cast* another spell"
2) A Warrior priest is not a Wizard
3) A prayer is a bound spell which is "*automatically cast*". Therefore there is no *attempt* [to cast] being made.

Most players will disagree because:
1) The word 'cast' appears in the Prayers of Sigmar - "Prayers are cast" and "they can be cast on the Priest himself".
This might be contradictory to the nature of bound spells but does show that some form of 'casting' has occured during these Prayers.

sainthale1988
08-11-2007, 10:24
you can't have multiply prayers in play (i'll find the reference in the empire book when i get home) you can only have the benefit of 1 at a time (or 2 if your an archlector)

2thesword
08-11-2007, 11:52
There is no FAQ although one is needed.

This has been discussed many times before.

The arguments in favour of your friend is as follows:
1) An RIP is negated when the Wizard [same wizard] "*attempts to cast* another spell"
2) A Warrior priest is not a Wizard
3) A prayer is a bound spell which is "*automatically cast*". Therefore there is no *attempt* [to cast] being made.


Glad to see that this has already been bounced around and no surprises to see that it is still a "toss a coin" rule.
Regarding the wording of "wizard" in the rules - as an O&G goblin player I could then argue that the rule doesn't apply as I have shamans; or an Ogre player has butchers etc... I'm not picking on you Deathless, in fact I'm grateful for your response, but they way semantics are applied by some people amuses me.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck; waddles like a duck.... my god, its a priest, not a duck.

I know, not terribly rules as written but I hate that rule... I'm a fan of common sense and the intention of the author.

2thesword
08-11-2007, 11:54
you can't have multiply prayers in play (i'll find the reference in the empire book when i get home) you can only have the benefit of 1 at a time (or 2 if your an archlector)

Please post the rule when you can - I'd really like to understand what the empire book does say (I haven't had a chance to read it yet). If priests can then all power to 'em, but my initial reaction based on the underlying rules of the magic phase was that they shouldn't be able to.

sainthale1988
08-11-2007, 12:53
i think of them as been 'normal' spells and 'normal' spell casters
only they actualy get the spell off like a bound magic item. but i will get definate back up references for this

Atrahasis
08-11-2007, 12:57
There is nothing to suggest that Prayers are spells except that they are cast like and can be dispelled like [bound] spells.

Whether or not they count as "casting attempts" for the purpose of RiP is entirely a mystery and will remain so until GW issue a FAQ.

DeathlessDraich
08-11-2007, 14:06
Regarding the wording of "wizard" in the rules - as an O&G goblin player I could then argue that the rule doesn't apply as I have shamans; or an Ogre player has butchers etc... I'm not picking on you Deathless, in fact I'm grateful for your response, but they way semantics are applied by some people amuses me..

Covered by the rules and not semantics.
pg 105 -"Some races use different terms, such as Sorcerer... but all of these are considered to be wizards"
To qualify as a Wizard, a warrior Priest will need a level which it does not have and is therefore not a wizard.


Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck; waddles like a duck.... my god, its a priest, not a duck...

In this case it is a duck impressionist. :p



I know, not terribly rules as written but I hate that rule... I'm a fan of common sense and the intention of the author.

Common sense is best abandoned, I'm afraid. Applying common sense to one rule requires that it has to be applied to other rules, many of which then becomes unplayable.

Rules writers' 'Intention' is something only the rules writers knows. Unfortunately the only thing they know well is Cut and Paste.

The best solution for your original question is a dice roll if mutual agreement fails.

sainthale1988
08-11-2007, 22:02
right here the logical argument;
qote empire book page 53, paragraph entitled 'prayers of sigmar'
'once per magic phase, a Priest of sigmar is allowed to use prayers from the..... list oposite.... arch lector....two different prayers per turn and a warrior priest may use one. PRAYERS ARE CAST EXACTLY LIKE BOUND SPELLS WITH A POWER LEVEL 4' i don't see any difficult in understanding that

right on the remain in play argument its also realy rather simple, 2 of the prayers are not remain in play thus not a problem the other 3 simple put after the description of the spell the statement 'REMAIN IN PLAY' thus will follow all the normal rules for remain in play spells, thus they are dispel by beating thier casting value by power dice (i.e. 4) and will "turn off" so to speak if another prayer is cast by the "magic user".

i believe that the rules are quite clear and are no more ambiguous than tomb king magic on these issues, thus any argument is just being berdy and anal for no benefit.

Atrahasis
08-11-2007, 23:40
Well if, you say that anyone who disagrees with you is beardy and anal, then who are we to disagree?

Tutore
09-11-2007, 09:25
We surely do not disagree! However, I'm still not 100% sure of that explanation, so I guess I am somewhat beardy and anal.

sainthale1988
09-11-2007, 17:59
sorry, was in a bad mood when i wrote that. i just can't see a good reason to be pedantic for not good reason, i mean there are so many other rules that are broken

2thesword
11-11-2007, 06:59
right here the logical argument;
qote empire book page 53, paragraph entitled 'prayers of sigmar'
'once per magic phase, a Priest of sigmar is allowed to use prayers from the..... list oposite.... arch lector....two different prayers per turn and a warrior priest may use one. PRAYERS ARE CAST EXACTLY LIKE BOUND SPELLS WITH A POWER LEVEL 4' i don't see any difficult in understanding that

right on the remain in play argument its also realy rather simple, 2 of the prayers are not remain in play thus not a problem the other 3 simple put after the description of the spell the statement 'REMAIN IN PLAY' thus will follow all the normal rules for remain in play spells, thus they are dispel by beating thier casting value by power dice (i.e. 4) and will "turn off" so to speak if another prayer is cast by the "magic user".


Thank you for clearing this up. I believe that the two sections of rules as quoted do cover the scenario I was referring to. Cheers

sainthale1988
12-11-2007, 20:03
glad to be of service 2thesword. i'll be giving my humble offering on warrior priest prayers in the magic tactica 101 relatively soon. i'll be using this.....'understanding' of how they work as part of my listing