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Havock
08-11-2007, 11:44
Tzeentch 1250 pts

Heroes:
Exalted Chaos Champion
Mark of Tzeentch
Barded chaos steed, halberd, shield, armour of damnation, spell familiair
237 pts

Sorcerer
Lvl 1
Dispel scroll
110 pts

Core:
Chosen Chaos knights (5)
-Mark of Tzeentch
Standard bearer, musician
-Reroll psych banner (from BoC, forgot the name)
300 pts

Chaos warriors (10)
Full command, shields
180 pts

Chaos Chariot
-mark of Tzeentch
140 pts

Chaos Chariot
-mark of Tzeentch
140 pts

Warhounds (5)
30 pts

Warhounds (5)
30 pts

Special:
Furies x5
75 pts

1242 pts


Unsure on what to do with zhe points, I figure I might swap the spell familiair to the sorcerer and give the exalted champ an enchanted shield, that would top out exactly at 1250 pts. It's a bit hero-heavy, I could also drop the sorcerer for something else, say, two spawns of tzeentch?
Chosen normale (when they are undivided) have the warbanner, but psychology can be very annoying at Ld8. It's not bad, but it ain't wonderful either!

M_M
08-11-2007, 12:52
For a tzeentch army it is not too character heavy, tzeentch spawns may seem fluffy but not worth the points

your exalted should be 235 unless he has a shield? and also i guess you have shields on your warriors

mount him on a chariot and give him the golden eye of tzeentch instead of the armour of damation and take the mark off the chosen knights and give them the war banner instead of the gore banner, mount the sorcerer on a barded steed (he can still join the warriors)
and either get another level on the sorcerer or get 2 more furies or even replace the spell familiar for another knight

you will have more freedom with your knights not babysitting the general, and your general is protected from cannons etc

my suggestions are only so you don't have to change your army much

Havock
08-11-2007, 13:51
Hmmm, good ones actually.

Something I also encountered, and may be the reason for your suggestion of using a chariot is that 5 chosen knights + exalted champion = horrible horrible overkill against most units.

Thing is with that 3+ ward save on chariots: I can see myself failing it whenever someone points a cannon at me at the worst (ie: all the) time. That and I tend to roll crap non my impact hits. He can flank though...

also: daemonic mount: Yay or nay?

der_lex
08-11-2007, 14:01
Nay. Personal suggestion: Drop the armour of damnation on the exalted champ, stick him in one of the chariots, and give him a berserker sword. Even if your impact hits suck, the bigger base size will give him at least two extra attacks...more if your opponent is stupid enough to flank charge him. If you happen to roll up Orange Fire, he becomes a veritable killing machine. If you get yellow, you'll get a save against those annoying cannonballs.

Other suggestions:

- Drop the chaos warrior unit, and replace it with a 20 man Marauder unit. If the warriors aren't there for the mark, a bigger ranked unit of infantry will get the job done better. Right now, you have lots of 'hammer' units, but no anvils. The marauders would make a decent anvil, and give you a place to put your Sorcerer in.

- Drop the banner on the knights altogether (really, they shouldn't need one anyway), and use those points plus points you free up with the Chaos warrior/Marauder swap to boost your sorcerer to level 2. If you give him the spell familiar and lore of Shadows/Fire, you'll have a decent long range caster while your chariot-riding champ rolls in for the kill.

Havock
08-11-2007, 14:29
Technically, a sorcerer can't join marauders because he has a mark (of chaos undivided), and the marauders have no mark at all. Or am I reading something horribly wrong?

Also: why an anvil? What happened to the good old fashioned "Here's my hammer, there's the table edge, anywhere in between is my magic, pick now"? :p

der_lex
08-11-2007, 14:50
It's worded rather vaguely in the book, but Marked characters can join unmarked units. From the official FAQ:


If a unit has no Mark (remember, the Mark of Chaos Undivided IS still a Mark), any character can join the unit. So, Marauders, who never have a Mark, may be joined by the Aspiring Champion with the Mark of Khorne.

As for why an anvil... for hammers to be truly affective, they have to smash the target against something. Ie: you need something to hold the opposing unit in place while your hammers smash into the flanks. Magic can't fulfill that role, since the only purpose it can serve is whittle down an enemy's army...no spell in the Tzeentch list impairs enemy movement, nor do any of the lores available to unmarked Sorcerers. Cavalry units and chariots can do it, but if are relatively fragile. A big unit of Marauders, however, is perfect for the role. The handweapon/shield and armour combo makes them more durable than you think, and they still have sheer numbers to back them up. Added to that, both Shadow and Death lores offer a 'unit causes fear' spell...which can make that bog, chap Marauder unit a lot more lethal than those ten chaos warriors.

I'm not opposed to Chaos Warriors at all, mind you. However, they're a hammer unit in themselves...and unless you give them halberds or additional handweapons, which you haven't, they're a rather ineffective hammer unit, since they'll never get enough kills in. They serve very little purpose in your current list, whereas a Marauder block can add a lot of strategic options.

Havock
08-11-2007, 20:54
And where is that official FAQ? It'not in the errata :p

If I can do it then by all means, yes, 20 marauders are simply better than 10 chaos warriors.

der_lex
08-11-2007, 21:56
I know Gav himself has stated it at some point, and it's in Black Gobbo (http://us.games-workshop.com/e-zine/issues/blackgobbo-02/rulesofengagement/default.htm) as well. Army Builder also doesn't object to you doing it either.

If you're still unsure about the source, be sure to ask this in the rules forum...it's where I first asked the question way back when. The people there are usually better with their sources than a scatterbrain like me :D

chaos-nightwing
09-11-2007, 02:21
Drop the chosen, and the banner and make the knight normal with full commandand drop the socerer. Put another aspiring champ with MOT.
Drop the chaos worrior and put a 20 men marauders in as meat shield with full command, LA, Shields, flails.
Put some dispell scrolls in. Its good to see u having one which is probabally all u need-depend on who ur playing.
Power familier is also useful for tzeentch army as they gice u not just one power dice but also dispell dice so if u meet a strong magic army, u will be able to prevent their magic better.

Havock
09-11-2007, 09:53
I don't think I'll downgrade to normal knights, chosen are just too good to pass up, My opponent needs to bring something at least S6 (or simply asv ignoring) to reliably cut through their armor save.

*ponders on the suggestions*

M_M
09-11-2007, 13:33
non chosen knights also can't really do enough damage reliably

keep the sorcerer for flexibility
I agree with changing the warriors for marauders with light armour and shield
try to squeeze a 6th knight in as well but with the marauders you will have a decent list

Havock
09-11-2007, 15:12
That command actually makes sense, a warbanner costs as much as a chosen knight, and the latter should be more useful if there is no hero around, hmmm.