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Commander Dante
08-11-2007, 22:53
Well we all know the Horus was the first to be found and that Alpharius was the last. So what about the others?
Here are some bits of fluff that may help piecing this puzzle together.

In Fulgrim it is mentioned that Fulgrim met Ferrus Mannus during his first visit on Terra so it can be assumed that Ferrus was found before Fulgrim. In the same source it is mentioned the Sanguinus came from Baal with lots of treasure for the Emperor so it is possible that Sanguinus was found after Ferrus and Fulgrim, or it is also possible that Sanguinus just came for a visit.

In the Night Lords IA it is stated the the Night Haunter was tutored under Fulgrim so Night Haunter was found later than him

In the Word Bearers IA it is stated that Magnus the Red accompianed the Emperor when he met Lorgar

In Desent of Angels During one of the Dark Angels first missions during the Great Crusade they relieve a battle group of White Scars. The White Scars hail the Great Khan. Because it was one of the Dark Angels first missions it can be assumed that Jaghatai Khan was found before the Lion.

I read (but from unreliable source) that Leman Russ was the 6th Primarch to be found. The Space Wolves are also the 6th legion so its possible that the source is confused or it is a coincidence (just like Alpharius was the last Primarch and was leader of the 20th legion)

so are there are anymore sources or references that could be of help?

Lisiecki
08-11-2007, 23:16
Horus was the first found and had legion 16
but remember there have been changes to the first founding chapters in the fluffs history

TheDarkDaff
08-11-2007, 23:26
Horus was the first found and had legion 16
but remember there have been changes to the first founding chapters in the fluffs history

Not just that but chapters have changed foundings completely (ie Ultramarines becoming a first founding legion). I was under the impression that Dorn was the first Primarch found as he basically turned up at Terra on Phalanx and presented himself to the Emperor. It is also the reason while the Fists are sometimes refered to as the Empeor's Praetorians.

DantesInferno
08-11-2007, 23:28
Imperial Fists IA:

The 7th Legion had been formed on Terra as evidenced by its earliest battle honour 'Roma', now only discernable on a ceramite icon too precious even to be displayed in the Inner Reclusium. The 7th Legion had recruited heavily on Inwit and over 70% of its strength were aspirants. The Imperial Fists were therefore a rarity in that Battle Brothers and Primarch were united very early in their service to the Emperor and quickly formed an unbreakable bond.

So Dorn was fairly soon after Horus, one would imagine. Possibly 2nd or 3rd Primarch.

You could try to work it out from the positions of their homeworlds, but there are some which are a bit puzzling: for instance Macragge is distant from Terra, but Guilliman's treatment of Alpharius would indicate that he'd been in the Great Crusade for a fairly long time.

Commander Dante
08-11-2007, 23:32
That is true but positon of homeworld wouldnt help much considering unpredicatble nature of the the warp currents. and Alpharius, like Dorn, was space ferring so it is possible that they always just missed each other, Alpharius found Horus like Dorn found the Emperor.

Captain Stern
08-11-2007, 23:38
In the same source it is mentioned the Sanguinus came from Baal with lots of treasure for the Emperor so it is possible that Sanguinus was found after Ferrus and Fulgrim, or it is also possible that Sanguinus just came for a visit.


What??? Can any one confirm this?

DantesInferno
08-11-2007, 23:40
That is true but positon of homeworld wouldnt help much considering unpredicatble nature of the the warp currents. and Alpharius, like Dorn, was space ferring so it is possible that they always just missed each other, Alpharius found Horus like Dorn found the Emperor.

Almost all of the Primarchs are specifically stated to have been found by the Emperor on their actual homeworlds.

And it's not an unreasonable assumption that the Great Crusade proceeded in a fairly constant manner outward from Terra, not leaping all over the galaxy in a haphazard fashion.

Commander Dante
09-11-2007, 00:07
What??? Can any one confirm this?

um yes. pg 147 of Fulgrim

Commander Dante
09-11-2007, 00:08
Almost all of the Primarchs are specifically stated to have been found by the Emperor on their actual homeworlds.

And it's not an unreasonable assumption that the Great Crusade proceeded in a fairly constant manner outward from Terra, not leaping all over the galaxy in a haphazard fashion.

but like you said how does that explain Guilliman?

Captain Stern
09-11-2007, 00:16
The Emperor found Sanguinius not the other way around. When he introduced himself Sanguinius immediately bent the knee. This isn't the case in Fulgrim?

Commander Dante
09-11-2007, 00:19
The Emperor found Sanguinius not the other way around. When he introduced himself Sanguinius immediately bent the knee. This isn't the case in Fulgrim?

O no no, The Emperor found Sanguinus on Baal like the fluff states, but it was custom for the Primarchs to visit Terra.

Captain Stern
09-11-2007, 00:22
but like you said how does that explain Guilliman?

'The initial conquests concentrated in areas where the primarchs had been hidden. Using his psychic powers the Emperor gradually located and found each of his original creations and united them with the pace marine chapters created from their genetic imprints.'

- page 178 ROC: The Lost and the Damned

Commander Dante
09-11-2007, 00:23
So it culd have been haphazard!

Captain Stern
09-11-2007, 00:35
As he used his psychic powers to find them you'd think therefore that the primarchs who gave off the brightest/loudest psychic signals would be found earliest.

Another factor could be the 'noise' generated by each of the primarchs political and military activities. Guilliman, for example, who conquered an entire system or more (I forget the details) in a very short amount of time would, you'd think, have come to the Emperor's attention earlier than what his psychic signal may have warranted.

Darktheos
09-11-2007, 08:37
I read somewhere that Lion El'Jonson was the first to be found and that he hated Horus because he thought he should have be the Warmaster because he was the first found. Possibly the Fluff in the DA Codex.

elusiveintrovert
09-11-2007, 09:06
I read somewhere that Lion El'Jonson was the first to be found and that he hated Horus because he thought he should have be the Warmaster because he was the first found. Possibly the Fluff in the DA Codex.

Lion wasn't the first found, he had the first legion and was the oldest. I've read somewhere that each primarch was made with one of the emperors traits emphasized in them more than in the others and Lion was created to be a tacticion. Lion thought he should be the warmaster because he was the oldest and thought himself to be superior in the realm of tactics.

chris.seraphim
09-11-2007, 11:54
And it's not an unreasonable assumption that the Great Crusade proceeded in a fairly constant manner outward from Terra, not leaping all over the galaxy in a haphazard fashion.

Id say it kinda is, seeing as interstellar travel through the WARP is kinda wayward, and as is seen in the HH books (strategy session on board the Vengeful Spirit, and more than once in Fulgrim as I recall) the various expeditions that struck outward, did so largely independantly picking their next systems of call/conquest on criteria of closeness, potential for existing human habitation, potential for human colonisation, potential for foul xenos breeds to annihilate - whatever the various Primarch/Astartes commander felt was best, or more fun.

So taking this less than cohesive planning, and the vagaries of the warp into effect, it is pretty plausible that the forward edge of the crusade would have been far more ragged than would have been the case otherwise.

Even offensive campaigns on the ground have ragged edges, with things like mountains, rivers etc. as well as the commanders preference so imagine how more varied it would be in a 3D environment like interstellar space, with problems like the tides of the warp, uninhabitable systems etc. etc.

Look at the expansion of the roman empire, with borders to tge east and west more than 2000 miles from rome, but hostile barbarian tribes a third of that distance to the north...

Look at the British Empire, theres no discernable pattern to those conquests at all!

There was also a big deal made of how NOT all of the area encompassed by the Astronomican is Imperial territory, (it was in ther 3rd ed Codex Imperialis I think), what with huge Ork empires, Eldar craftworlds & exodite communities, various other Xenos threats (the Hruud are mentioned) not to mention the EoT, and the Maelstrom, as well as the squat worlds near the Core.

So the Imperial advance WAS not for various reasons, this ever expanding sphere out from Terra.

Back on track, even though Macragge is well out to the galactic east, I would imagine that advances to the galactic north and west of Terra, towards the EoT would be plagued by more Eldar communities (craftwprlds fleeing the EoT after the fall) as well as more turbulent warp troubles etc. So the (comparaitavely) calm and unpopulated eastern fringe would offer an easier battle front, allowing the Imperial Speartip to push faster in that direction, compared to the Ork empires in the Core and North East, the Eldar refugees and warp influences to the north and west (EoT & Maelstrom.) Terra is pretty much galactic south, so the eastern front would have been the quickest to advance, maybe facilitating Guilliman's comparitavely early recovery by the Big E.

pookie
09-11-2007, 12:11
Look at the British Empire, theres no discernable pattern to those conquests at all!

there is, its where ever we could land our ships and kick ass over the local population ;)

chris.seraphim
09-11-2007, 13:11
Yeah Pookie, thats true, but its not as if we radiated out in a uniform way from Jolly Old England was it?

By the same token, it makes sense that the true Imperial sphere of influence, is wherever they could get to in the warp, that they could beat up the inhabitants - for examkple it is BY NO MEANS certain that the Imperium would have prevailed against the Interex.

I mean, some of those Xenos have VERY sharp fruit!

---
I do not apologise if anyone doesnt get the Blackadder reference.

Mechanicus
09-11-2007, 15:40
I see the search function's been neglected (http://warseer.com/forums/40k-background/108967-what-order-were-the-primarchs-discovered.html). (Sorry - I'd been reading that only yesterday, so I noticed the very similar title and all) ;)

To sum up what I said there, and reiterate the rest: Horus was supposedly first. Thirty years later, the next Primarch was supposedly found. Jaghatai was probably before the Lion. Rogal was found seventh. Magnus before Lorgar, as said. Fulgrim before Konrad. Roboute possibly before Konrad. Alpharius was probably found last. Fulgrim had been with Horus for decades by Ullanor, so was probably found less than halfway through. Ferrus probably found after Horus.

The expedition fleets went out to conquer, so they probably searched for large clusters of worlds before going to less dense areas, meaning that it's possible for Guilliman to be found early on if Ultramar, or at least Macragge, is in a stellar cluster.

Anyway, for details on the Primarchs' order of finding, check Daemonslave's Lost Legions thread (forum.blpublishing.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=177), dealing with all things Great Crusade-y.

Hope I helped!

ryng_sting
09-11-2007, 17:28
We know for sure that Horus was first and Alpharius was last. Until the Lightning Tower it seemed almost certain that Rogal Dorn was second, now it states that he was 7th. We know for sure that Fulgrim was found before Night Haunter, and Magnus before Lorgar. I can see Guilliman being in the top five, despite his position on the Eastern Fringe. Khan and Sanguinius shouldn't be too far apart, nor Russ, Jonson, and Ferrus Manus.

Daemonslave
09-11-2007, 21:26
We know for sure that Horus was first and Alpharius was last.

Do we? Read the index astartes article carefully...

ryng_sting
11-11-2007, 11:45
...which says that Horus was discovered first by the Emperor having been cast closest to Earth, and that Horus personally discovered the last Primarch.

Daemonslave
11-11-2007, 13:11
...which says that Horus was discovered first by the Emperor having been cast closest to Earth, and that Horus personally discovered the last Primarch.

I quote;


Information about Horus himself is even harder to uncover. It is thought that he was the first of the Primarchs to be recovered by the Emperor, having been cast much closer to Terra than the others, and was found at a much younger age.

Index Astartes IV

Commander Dante
12-11-2007, 02:35
what is the lightening tower

Gorthor21
12-11-2007, 03:03
what is the lightening tower

its a short story about rogal

BrainFireBob
12-11-2007, 18:16
I quote;



Index Astartes IV

The same article states that it was just Horus and the Big E for about twenty years, before the next Primarch was found.

Daemonslave
12-11-2007, 18:38
The same article states that it was just Horus and the Big E for about twenty years, before the next Primarch was found.

It's actually thirty years, and leaves the possibility open for a Primarch (or two) to turn up AND disappear before Horus is even found [plus, after this thirty years; 'Then came the day that the Emperor divined the presence of a second Primarch in their proximity' doesn't actually say that this was the second Primarch ever found, just that it was a second Primarch after Horus]. Dons conspiracy hat.;)

Commander Dante
12-11-2007, 19:30
Apparantly according to the lexicanum Fulgrim assisted Horus pasifying the eastern fringe. So am i thinking that Guilliman was found after Ferrus Mannus, Fulgrim, and Sanguinus.

Commander Dante
13-11-2007, 16:40
Wait a second! the Imperial Fists are also the 7th legion and Dorn the 7th found...ill accept that he was the 7th found just beacuse of the lightening tower, but i find it coincedential that the it would be Leman then Dorn.