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chivalrous
14-04-2005, 01:58
As far as I understand magic resistance, you can only use it if :-
a) The Spell specifically targets the model with Magic Resistance
b) The model with Magic Resistance lies within the area of the spell where the spell has an area of effect (e.g all units with xx inches of the wizard suffer XD6 hits), in the same magic phase that spell is cast.

But what happens when a character joins a unit such as Bretonnian Damsel in a unit of knights?
Would the Damsel still be able to use Magic Resistance if:-
1) The area of effect (as mentioned in b) ) included some of the models in the unit (e.g. clips a corner) but not the Damsel.
2) If a magic missle shot at the unit and caused XD6 hits on the unit but wouldn't hit the Damsel or wouldn't be certain of hitting the Damsel if the unit is small enough forcing the hits to be randomised between character models and basic unit models.

A good example of what I'm trying to get at with point 2) would be to say that a Dark Elf Sorceress casts Black Horror on a unit of knights containing a Damsel. The Sorceress is just over 18" away so the template doesn't reach as far as the damsel model, it only clips one of the knight models. Would the unit benefit from the Damsels Magic Resistance?

The FAQ only addresses units with Magic Resistance not units containing characters with Magic Resistance.

Major Defense
14-04-2005, 02:39
Well if you target a unit that has a model in it with MR then the unit gets the benefit because you can't target *part* of a unit. So magic missiles and spells that effect a unit because they reach a corner of it will be saved against with any MR or casting modifiers, even from a model on the other end of the unit (granted that that model is not in a rear rank or in some other way not able to use their item or ability.

Sylass
14-04-2005, 06:20
Originally (as written in the rulebook) MR would only kick in if the character would be directly targeted by the spell. Just sitting in a unit would not give the unit the MR bonus.

However, that was changed with the release of the bret. armybook and the Q&A's connected to that:


Q: If a character has Magic Resistance and joins a unit, does the whole unit benefit from that Magic Resistance?

A: Yes
Sadly GW forgot that there are different magic items giving MR. One type giving MR to the character & the unithe's with and another giving MR to the character only.

First type is more expensive than the second...and now they do exactly the same.

Atrahasis
14-04-2005, 08:38
My advice would be to treat the answer as applying only to Brettonians.

(Actually, my advice would be to put a certain Antipodean rulesmonger in a straitjacket and not allow him anywhere near Q&A sessions again, but that's by the by)

WLBjork
14-04-2005, 10:09
I seem to remember that last time this came up, the rules guru MageIth said that Gav and co. were aware of this problem and were planning on fixing it in the next set of errata.

Whether this happens or not is of course a whole different kettle of fish.

chivalrous
14-04-2005, 23:56
Originally (as written in the rulebook) MR would only kick in if the character would be directly targeted by the spell. Just sitting in a unit would not give the unit the MR bonus.

The rule book (on page 114) states:-
The number in the brackets indicates the number of extra dice that may be rolled when trying to dispell each spell that affects the magically resistant creature
This suggests to me that so long as the Magic Resistant model (e.g. Damsel) within a unit is a potential target for the spell, the model can use their magic resistance.

I've had a look at the spell lists in the BRB and a few codexes and come up with a few examples of when I think a Magic resistant character within a unit should and should not be able to use Magic Resistance.

1)[I]Magic Missles (e.g. Fireball) These usually cause xD6 hits on the affected unit.
In my opinion, a characters Magic Resistance could only be used if there are fewer than 5 models in the unit and hits are randomised between normal models and characters, thus making the character an affected model. More than 5 models in the unit and Magic Resistance cannot be used because hits aren't randomised and casualties are taken from rank and file.
2)All units within xinches take D6 hits orThe unit takes D6 hits(e.g.Drain Life or Uranons Thunderbolt).
This is the same situation as a magic missle. If hits are randomised then the character is a potential target and Magic Resistance can be used. If hits aren't randomised then Magic Resistance cannot be used.
3)Each model under the template takes D6 hits (e.g. Pit of Shades). I've already suggested this happening (in my initial post) but I forgot to account for tha fact that the template wouldn't be placed until the spell had been fully cast, i.e. the dispell attempt if there was one was made and was unsuccessful. So, in fact, there is still the potential that the character could be affected by the spell before any measurements are made and so Magic Resistance could be used.
4)Each Model in the unit takes a Sx hit(e.g. Curse of Years or Indigo Fire of Change). This is a spell that targets every individual model in the unit. Each individual model takes is personally affected. I would say that even if there is arguement against characters in units being able to use their Magic Resistance, in this case they are a direct target of the spell and Magic Resistance should be taken into account.

In my opinion, in all of these cases when the Magic Resistant character is potentially affected by the spell and is therefore entitled to use their Magic Resistance.
But I have said potentially and I do see that there is a case for disallowing Magic Resistance if there is a possibility that the character won't be affected.
But I will stand by my opinion that in the case oy my 4th example, the character is certainly affected and Magic Resistance should be allowed to be used.

You may now tear my arguements apart :D