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View Full Version : Would you buy a new expantion pack if GW brought out another like Outlanders?



Deltrax
09-11-2007, 13:50
The last expansion Outlanders is already years in the past, I can still remember reading the whole Outlanders rulebook from cover to cover. Eager to play with the spyrers and the scavvies. But Necromunda has seen a decline in attention from Games Workshop. Although by many seen as THE best skirmish tabletop game from GW, support from GW has seen a steady decline. It's no longer a focus, you can't order the main box nor can you buy the outlanders box except as a sparse eBay item. The revised rulebook was outdated when it came out, the LRB online just a patch to heal the wounds.
If GW would bring out another expansion with for example:
- One or two new buildings,
- Another walkway,
- Some more custom walkway supports
- Mission objectives like Archeotech or a generator
- A new sleek Reference sheet, including full quicklist from all weapons
- LRB printed with all gangs finally included and balanced.
- And maybe an extra rulebook for ashwastes and vehicles for those who like them.

Maybe this is asking too much from GW, and the box with these contents will certainly not be cheap. Share your thoughts!

Deltrax
09-11-2007, 13:57
Typo in the title. expantion > expansion. Could a moderator change it please?

talos935
09-11-2007, 15:41
I would possibly buy an expansion/updated rule book, but the thing I miss the most is the terrain box

Deltrax
09-11-2007, 16:40
Terrain .. like buildings? Or are you referring to sludge pools, rubble etc?

Angelwing
09-11-2007, 16:59
I'd pick it up if it offered value for money. I already have lots of the original terrain (around 4 sets worth) and still have all the old books. It really would have to be a nice package given a major boost in stores (to get everyone playing) for me to buy.

Major_Gilbear
09-11-2007, 17:43
The revised rulebook was outdated when it came outSo much so, that they even reprinted all the old typos. As there was already a BYB (hardback to boot), I couldn't really see the point in re-releasing (and without including Outlanders). Worse, much of the artwork was recycled from Inquisitor, and the introduction of HWLs was an untested and unbalanced piece of crap that we're now stuck with (if you use "Official" rules that is).


the LRB online just a patch to heal the wounds.Rub salt into the wounds more like!
The LRB has had some typos fixed and an FAQ published; whoop-de-doop. It still hasn't fixed the broken bits, nor has it been updated recently. Further, most of the FAQs were answered by Andy Chambers years ago when Necro was released; would it have been to hard to stick these into the back of the rulebook itself (like PP do with their games)?


If GW would bring out another expansion with for example:
- One or two new buildings,
- Another walkway,
- Some more custom walkway supports
- Mission objectives like Archeotech or a generator
Never gonna happen; card pieces were/are a really expensive part of the game to make apparently, and is one reason why new editions of WHFB and WH40k have steered away from cards and counters.
Should they decide ever to do this, the most likely form that these would take is plastic, and that won't happen unless it is directly marketable with 40k - which it isn't. it Such plastic goodness would overlap with the existing CoD stuff too.


- A new sleek Reference sheet, including full quicklist from all weaponsWhy would you need this? And if it is important to you, why not make your own (it is easy to do: Laminator + Colour Printer = More shiny reference sheets than you could ever want)?


- LRB printed with all gangs finally included and balanced.
- And maybe an extra rulebook for ashwastes and vehicles for those who like them. This isn't going to happen while HWLs exist, and less while we have to use the crappy Outlanders material currently on the website as a basis. Even if they print the book, without these changes it is another wasted effort.
As for the Ash Wastes... Well I'm not that overly keen on them really, as they are pretty much a different game altogether. It also requires a degree of model -based support that I can't ever see GW providing for it to have any chance of being a "success" in their eyes.


Maybe this is asking too much from GW, and the box with these contents will certainly not be cheap. Share your thoughts!Assuming GW magically produce what you've asked for and sell it as, say, a 50 boxed set, I cannot see myself buying it. Seriously, why would I? The rulebook (containing the magically perfect, polished and balanced game revision that you wished for) would be the only thing of mild interest to me, and even then I already have 99% of the content.

I don't mean to sound like I'm having a rant, nor am I taking a chunk out of you. I just don't see that there is any more mileage in Necro beyond polishing what's already been done, and the LRB isn't even capable of managing that. I know it is free, but if it is wrong it is all pretty pointless, no?

The only thing that would interest me (and which might be reasonable in the long-term for GW) is a plastic frame for each gang/House, containing the multi-part basis for about 10 figures each. These could be easily mixed with each other or WHFB or WH40k plastics to make anything you could want and would probably sell well. They are cheap to produce (after the mould is made) and as there would be no need for a Bitz service a lot of headache would be saved in that area too.
I also think that such a release would be perfect to compliment a LatD 40k release, allowing 40k players to buy the boxed sets and make rogue, mutated or cultist-based armies.

Daredhnu
10-11-2007, 06:21
good plastic models are what all the specialist games would benefit from greatly.

but seeing as how GW is royally shafting SG and it's playerbase we won't be seeing that ever.

Major_Gilbear
10-11-2007, 14:40
I agree, whilst a plastic frame for each gang would be reasonable (and would make economic sense too), I simply cannot see GW policy ever letting this happen... Unless there is ever a major re-release (sorta like BoFA vs Warmaster or the new Mighty Empires).

Deltrax
11-11-2007, 00:09
Could we make our own box?

Daredhnu
11-11-2007, 01:06
i don't see how we could, we can think about what should go in it i suppose but we probably couldn't produce it.
and just incase you were suggesting we brainstorm ideas over what should go in it.

- i would like to see a new starter box with a decent re-write of the rules in hardback.
- 2 starting gangs of 10 men each (but made up of a new scum hired gun sprue or something)
- nice fluffy terrain pieces (plastic waterstill, cities of death expansion set with walkways)

that at the very least.

not that it will ever happen, but i can always dream right?

Major_Gilbear
11-11-2007, 14:34
Actually, as long as none of the "GW" weapons are in there, I don't see whay somebody couldn't make a set of multi-part resins for each gang.
Also some weapons like Autoguns, Stubbers, shotguns, flamers and swords would be easy enough to include without the need to arouse the ire of GW's Legal Team (as they are all real-world weapons anyway).

Selling these on EBay at 15 a set of ten, they'd make a killing. In fact, you could even add a sprue of GW metal weapons into the kit (as there is no law against re-selling real components).

ash_wednesday
12-11-2007, 21:08
I would buy it. Why not? It would add to my collection. it would be easier if the just took all the online articles and articles for the Fantic magizne and stick it in one book. It would make things easier.

Damien 1427
12-11-2007, 22:24
The only thing I could possibly want is a return to the good old days of the Big Yellow Book. Maybe another go at Spyrers. But I'm one of the twisted bastards who used the 1,000 Credit Spyrer, so you may wish to discount that one.

I'd love to see multi-part metal models of quality. By that, I mean up there with the better LOTR models or the more tolerable Warmachine infantry. The stuff we've gotten since Underhive, with a few notable exceptions (Bounty Hunters, Redemptionists), is utter rubbish. I'd maim for high-quality House plastic boxed sets (Enough parts for a full gang, with Leader and Heavy accessory sprues), but with plenty Space Marine units still in metal, we probably won't see that happening before the heat-death of the universe.

Major_Gilbear
12-11-2007, 22:27
I would buy it. Why not? It would add to my collection. Well, any monkey with a few quid can splurge on new stuff, but what would it add that we don't already have? I mean, how many times will ppl buy the same stuff (complete with the previous errors and typos) before they realise it is a bit daft to keep supporting something GW can't be bothered to proof-read?


it would be easier if the just took all the online articles and articles for the Fantic magizne and stick it in one book. It would make things easier. Well, most of the main articles were all in one hardback book (the BYB). But they stopped publishing it, and what we have online now is pretty much a scanned, re-hashed copy of those same rules. Most of the "new" stuff is more horribly broken and less well thought-out than the previous rules were to boot.

I'm not angry -or even mildly pissed off- at GW but topics like these are just wishful thinking. For ppl to declare "I'd buy it!" without even thinking about what has been/might be done just seems to me like shooting one's mouth off. Several times SG has released models that ppl declared they'd buy if given the chance, and then it seems that either their interest has trailed off or the price of the models when released has cooled their enthusiasm. Granted, they haven't exactly been released to a marketing fanfare, but still: the promised hardcore support has suddenly gone all quiet.

If you read or ask around, virtually every gaming group uses a host of house rules to keep Necro playing smoothly, and most folk will either avoid using or write their own house rules for the more broken gangs. If you have the models, and you're half-writing your own rules anyway, why would you care if GW slipped another SG release stealthily under the radar?

Angelwing
13-11-2007, 14:25
I'd maim for high-quality House plastic boxed sets (Enough parts for a full gang, with Leader and Heavy accessory sprues),....

Any that escape the maiming I'll kick for you.
Yes, house plastic sets would be very welcome indeed, but very unlikely. :(

Eazy-O
14-11-2007, 02:04
I don't quite see the point of this thread, but what the heck. I will say 3 things though:

1) SG's been put in the cooler at best or axed and put in the cooler at worse. They're hardly bringing out articles anymore. And there's no scheduled releases. Or has this changed?

2) There's people out there already selling zounds of suitable miniatures, but you guys don't seem to be all over it. Same would apply to anyone selling them on eBay. You couldn't use the Necromunda name, logo, fluff, etc. It wouldn't even come up in search. Unless you had something like "10 gangers and a GW Necromunda Basic Weapons & Pistol Sprue". Which is legal, but afaik some auctions like these have been zapped by eBay; terrain auctions, but auctions none the less. Anyway, suitable minis are made by (in no particular order) Heresy (http://www.heresyminiatures.com/), em-4 here (http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Future_Skirmish.html) & here (http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Science_Fiction.html), Black Scorpion (http://www.blackscorpionminiatures.com/), Wargames Foundry (Steet violence series, mainly) (http://www.wargamesfoundry.com), East Riding Miniatures (25mm series) (http://shop.eastridingminiatures.co.uk/erm-25-11-c.asp), Alpha Forge Games (http://www.alphaforgegames.com/lightinfantry.html), Hasslefree (mostly the 28mm Adventurers range (http://www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/range.php?range_id=33), Copplestone Castings (Future Wars range) (http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/range.php?range=FW), Madpuppet (http://www.madpuppetminiatures.com/main.php?zone=cat&cat=2), etc.

3) There's people selling very appropriate terrain, but, again, without the Necromunda logo it seems to slip by most people. Cue Litko (http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/CTGY/ITS), Technolog (http://www.urbanmammoth.com/um/html/urbanwar_buildersets_new.htm), etc.

One thing that would be doable, if anyone was going to put together a boxed set, would be to set up a page about Necromunda and how cool it is, then offer your stuff for sale as alternatives. How that would fare with the GW's Legal dept., i don't know. Eventually you'd get a cease&desist.

My three cents. ;)

ash_wednesday
15-11-2007, 16:11
That's funny. The last time I searched on Ebay, there were some auctions that had "Necromunda" in their title. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong.

Major_Gilbear
15-11-2007, 16:22
@Ash Wednesday:

You are reading it wrong.

He means that other manufacturers make suitable Necro models, but without having "Necromunda" in the description, most ppl pass them by when looking for Necro minis.

And IMO he's totally right.

ash_wednesday
15-11-2007, 16:37
2) Same would apply to anyone selling them on eBay. You couldn't use the Necromunda name, logo, fluff, etc. It wouldn't even come up in search. Unless you had something like "10 gangers and a GW Necromunda Basic Weapons & Pistol Sprue". Which is legal, but afaik some auctions like these have been zapped by eBay

It's this part I was talking about. Is he saying that we can't say "I'm selling Necromunda Stuff" on our actuion anymore or we can't use the actual Logo in the auction profile?

Eazy-O
15-11-2007, 17:08
Ash, why did you cut out the first sentence of the second paragraph? :) Read it again.

I said that many manufacturers make great minis that are suitable for Necromunda, but most people looking for Necromunda stuff don't know about those. And, you're not allowed to sell stuff by, say, Wargames foundry, with a Necromunda name, logo, etc in the title or description.

Same thing happened to people who make scenery. Even generic hills, rocks and craters without any GW IP on them have been zapped from eBay for having "Warhammer" or "40k", etc in their title. The whole point here is that people who play WH, search for "warhammer terrain" or "warhammer scenery". If you leave out GW's registered trademark, you won't get half as many hits on your auction. You are, however, allowed to sell GW-made miniatures or terrain with their trademarks in the auction title or description.

Anyway, same thing would happen to anyone trying to put together a new starter or even some new minis. You're not allowed to use the Necromunda name and thus you'd hardly get any hits from people browsing eBay for Necromunda stuff. The only way would be to splurge it across as many forums as possible and hope for some interest.

And that's only the beginning. You'd also have to describe and present your stuff without using GW's IP and still make it clear to the potential customer what's it for. Step over the line and GW's Legal department will be all over you like flies on donkey doo. Also, let's not forget the weapons. Sure there's ways to make bolters, plasma cannons, power weapons, etc without infringing GW's IP, but again, stay too true to the original and you're screwed, stay too far on the safe side and it doesn't resemble a bolter anymore. So how long can you last in court against them? And really, should you be able to last in court? I mean, you're quite obviously copying them... Not to say i agree with GW's policy on Specialist Games, hell no.

So, what's to be done? Well, the way i see it, if more people were aware of all the fine miniatures and scenery by the manufacturers i've already mentioned (maybe we could get a sticky for a database thread of stores that carry them) and if more of it was made due to popular demand and community support, maybe we'd get somewhere. It's not illegal for me or you to say that something is suitable for use in Necromunda, just for the guy who's selling it. Maybe upon seeing the community interest and support, GW would get a bit of move on. I doubt it, but you never know. The best motivation does tend to come from competition, after all.

Even if SG does get axed completely and online support goes offline, you can count on the community to keep the rules in .pdf. It's not an ideal situation and sure as heck won't encourage many new players, but Necromunda will live on.

Daredhnu
15-11-2007, 22:04
i for one say that if they do "axe" SG we shall march on GW headquarters and demand it back.
power to the people and all that. :p

but seriously if GW pulled their collective heads out of the sand they would see that people are becoming disatisfied and change their course.
but that's highly unlikely since all they see is sales numbers. :cries:

that's it we should all stop buying their products till they change their stance :evilgrin:
(please be aware that it is highly unlikely for me to stop buying GW merchandise)