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Tordeck
09-11-2007, 16:57
Lord
Highborn
Dark Steed
Lance
Shield
Sea Dragon Cloak
Light Armour
Crown of Black Iron
Cry of War
Dark Venom
219 pts

Hero
Sorcerer (women are bad luck on ships)
Lvl 2
Tome
Dispel scroll
Sea Dragon Cloak dont know if this is allowed
176 pts

Core
Corsairs
x 20 w/ Full Command
Banner of Murder
270 pts

Corsairs
x 20 w/ Full Command
225 pts

Dark Riders
x 10 w/ Full Command
215 pts

Dark Riders
x 10 w/ Full Command
215 pts

Special
Shades
x 10
Light armour
150 pts

Harpies
x 10
130 pts

Rare
Reaper Bolt Thrower
x 2
200 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower
x 2
200 pts

Total
2000 pts

EndlessBug
09-11-2007, 17:28
ok, Highborns aren't allowed temple of Kaine abilities so you'll have to redo the Highborn.
Sorcerer isn't allowed SDC, no. Also 1 lvl 2 sorc isn't enough for a 2000 pts game, get rid of the lvl and the tome and give another scroll to make him a caddie. corsairs can't have a 50 pt magic banner, don't think they can have any magic banner.

You'd be better off with 4 units of 4 Dark Riders to 2 units of 10. Although personally I'd drop both ubnits to 5 and with the points saved from the mage get 2 units of 10 crossbowmen with shields.

Tordeck
11-11-2007, 16:33
Says right in the rules that one unit of Corsairs may carry a banner worth up to 50 points. Misread what the highborn can get so I will drop the Khaine stuff and cloak on the sorcerer. This list is fluffed based (my own) and I want to keep the riders as units with full commands. Not gunna do that with only 5 riders in a unit.

Wreckage
11-11-2007, 17:07
I thought it was illegal for Dark Elf males to practice wizardry?

brambleten
11-11-2007, 19:47
if its a fleet, the captain's word is law.
if the captain is a highborn, and his friend wants to practice magic, then he might let him

Tordeck
12-11-2007, 20:19
re-worked the list a little.

Fleet of Discord

Lord
Highborn
Dark Steed
Lance
Shield
Blood Armour
Sea Dragon Cloak
Crown of Black Iron
216 pts

Hero
Sorceress
Lvl 2
Tome
Dispel scroll
170 pts

Core
Corsairs
x 20 w/ Full Command
Banner of Murder
270 pts

Corsairs
x 20 w/ Full Command
225 pts

Dark Riders
x 10 w/ Full Command
215 pts

Dark Riders
x 10 w/ Full Command
215 pts

Special
Shades
x 10
Light armour
150 pts

Harpies
x 10
130 pts

Rare
Reaper Bolt Thrower
x 2
200 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower
x 2
200 pts

Total
1991 pts

Wreckage
12-11-2007, 23:04
10 Dark Riders in a unit is utterly wasteful. They cant get a rank bonus and it becomes impossible for every member to shoot... You did give them RXB's right?

10 Shades is a bit much, 5-7 is ideal. When you get 10 scouts it becomes really hard to find deployment locations. Two units might suit the army well.

All in all you are short on infantry--two blocks wont cut it.

gerrymander61
12-11-2007, 23:29
drop the tome on the sorc, put her down to lv 1, and buy her another scroll. She's not going to be casting much.

2 units of 5 shades is a better idea both in terms of game play and thematically, although you could get by with just 1.

Please, open your eyes and see what people are telling you: 10 dark riders in a unit is way too much. Try getting 2 units of 5 and then another unit of 20 corsairs. Again, thematically better and more powerful gaming wise.

Tordeck
13-11-2007, 00:35
10 Dark Riders in a unit is utterly wasteful. They cant get a rank bonus and it becomes impossible for every member to shoot... You did give them RXB's right?

10 Shades is a bit much, 5-7 is ideal. When you get 10 scouts it becomes really hard to find deployment locations. Two units might suit the army well.

All in all you are short on infantry--two blocks wont cut it.


drop the tome on the sorc, put her down to lv 1, and buy her another scroll. She's not going to be casting much.

2 units of 5 shades is a better idea both in terms of game play and thematically, although you could get by with just 1.

Please, open your eyes and see what people are telling you: 10 dark riders in a unit is way too much. Try getting 2 units of 5 and then another unit of 20 corsairs. Again, thematically better and more powerful gaming wise.

First off, Gerrymander, there is no reason to be rude. Its people like you that cause others to leave boards. Also don't try and tell me what thematically fits a fluff you didn't write or know fully.

Second, I set the list up based on the fluff. Only so many crew and steeds would fit on a ship. There are two ships in this Noble's fleet and so only two units of corsairs can be fielded same goes with the Riders and mercenaries (shades and harpies). No I didn't give the riders RXBs. It just didn't fit in how I wanted the fleet to look within this point range. i would have to either up the points or drop other things in order to fit the RXBs and I didn't want to do that. The Merc units could possibly be divided into two units of five and still fit but the Riders cannot. I don't have the points to give full commands to 4 units (again fluffy to have full commands). So two big units it is.

I am not a power gamer. I build armies to have fun with because I like to build and convert and play. I am not out to win tournaments or anything, just to have a good time. I put the list up to see what people thought. not to have them tell me I suck and don't know how to play. So everyone please play nicely or don't bother responding at all. I remember now why I have been on the forum so long and never bothered to post.

Wreckage
13-11-2007, 01:07
. So everyone please play nicely or don't bother responding at all.

Why are you asking for advice if you aren't going to take it? :confused:

I see absolutely no thematic reason why the dark riders from the same ship wouldn't split to encircle their foes.

You'd be best off to have just two units of 5, and spend the points to get RXB's and have some spare.

How do you reconcile having only a single unit of shades?

Tordeck
13-11-2007, 22:42
Actually at no point did I ask for advice. i posted to the list o see what people thought but if they are not going to go about it in a freindly manner then they can kiss off. Splittign forces means they woudl be seperated from there commander. I dont like the feel of it. The shades were a merc unti in this fleet, same with the harpies. I just put the units in as ten, but those can be broken down to 5. The riders and corsairs are what cant be broken down any further.

Dranthar
14-11-2007, 00:15
Actually at no point did I ask for advice. i posted to the list o see what people thought but if they are not going to go about it in a freindly manner then they can kiss off.

The standard response in the army lists forum is to give advice, which the posters here did in a friendly manner. No one was saying you suck or don't know how to play, and the only vaguely offensive comment (if you could call it that) was one line from gerrymander61, who was evidently confused as to why you didn't want to change anything.

If you didn't want advice on what you could change then you should have said so from the start. If you want feedback on how the army could fit better with the theme you have in mind then do say so, while giving details on the theme. No-one here is a mind reader.

I still don't know what you want from us here. Do you want us to say whether we'd enjoy playing against it? Whether it fits in with the theme you have in mind? :confused:

Tordeck
14-11-2007, 01:35
This place works a bit different then the forum I am normally on. There it is common place to comment on the feel of the list as well as how it would work and what should be modified. The only reason I posted it hear is my normal forum is small and doesn't have many Fantasy players. I was really just looking for what people thought of the list as a whole. Not to have it torn apart. The list is being built as it stands ( i already have everything waiting to be built) I just wanted to see if it was tactfully sound (i see i need to work a few things out) and to see if people liked the idea of a fluffy fleet based piratical army.

Wreckage
14-11-2007, 01:54
To answer your question, no I do not think it is a tactically sound list.

Your unit "logic" still makes no sense, even from a thematic, story background. It's even worse when viewed from game terms. 10 scouts doesnt even make sense. Think about it, what kind of behind-enemy-lines type forces run around in huge throngs? The same thing with the light cavalry. It just doesnt make sense, even in the Warhammer world.

Dranthar
14-11-2007, 03:24
Right then;

Idea of the theme
From what I've gathered this is a fleet based army? Well the idea is sound and very believable in respect to the current DE background. Personally though, I think the list could be better executed to fit in with the theme.

Personally, I've always seen fleet lists on focussing mostly on lightly armoured infantry, with minimal cavalry and plenty of shooting. I realise you don't intend to change your list but to me, all those dark riders seem to compromise your theme rather than reinforce it.

Tactically sound
I think on the table top it has some strengths, but it will suffer in other areas too.

The RBTs give the list some decent shooting and the harpies/shades should help deal with enemy artillery. Corsairs are already resistant to shooting so the only really vulnerable units are the Dark Riders. Fortunately they should be fast enough to avoid the worst. On the whole your ability to deal out damage in the shooting phase could be better, but it's not terrible either.

In the magic phase you're going to suffer. A single Level 2 Sorceress is unlikely to deal much (if any) damage at 2000pts and with only 3DD and a scroll for defense you're only going to hold up for about a turn, maybe 2, against (for instance) two level 2's. The harpies may be able to hunt down some mages though, with a bit of luck.

Mobility is good, but it's not fantastic. With literally only 4 combat-level units, as fast as they are, you're going to have a tough time out-flanking your opponent. A larger number of units (especially cheap units and relatively expendible fast cavalry) would help you set up charge redirections and bait enemy units, but in this list you don't really have that option.

Fighting in combat will be risky. Your corsairs will do okay when fighting head to head against lightly armoued, low toughness infantry but they'll struggle against anything with any degree of resiliance. The Dark Riders can do better if you can pull off a flank charge (see above), but your only real chance of defeating tough units in combat lies with your Highborn. With his Dark Riders they are sort of turned into a pseudo-knight unit on the charge, but that unit will really be the only hard-hitting unit in your list. Unless you can pull off some flank charges or focus on the weaker units, the rest of your army will really be struggling in combat.

That's all I've got for now. :)

Tordeck
14-11-2007, 20:52
Thx for the insight Dranthar. As you can see from my sig this is my first fantasy army and I do not have a load of exp with fantasy. I set about creating a fluffy army that fit my personality. I will break down the shades into two units of five. What about the Harpies, should I do the same? As for the riders, being some one that works on board ships and has a bit of knowledge on how ancient ships ran I see ship plenty capable of holding 30 men and 10 horses (the shades and harpies are not being counted as they are basically "hired" pre-battle and meet the army on the field.) As for breaking them into smaller units I will consider it now that you have made a reasonable argument and not just told me that i was wrong to have the unit they way I did.

The other players in my gaming group have orks, skaven, and maybe chaos. (right now there are 4 of us that either want to or do play fantasy) and none are power gamers so all lists will be fun, not just out to beat an opp unmercifully.

Little Aaad
14-11-2007, 21:54
If your Highborn goes in a unit of 10 riders one will straggle behind your ranks. To save, financially, and even to make the unit look tidyer, I would take him out. Just had to clear that one up before I started.

The feel of this army will be a good one, can you give us a picture when your done, maybe even a project log, this will make a good one. Tell us about your colour scheme too.

Would'nt you consider having 10 crossbows guarding each ship. Fluff, it would fit as they control how much loot goes on the ship and stop the enemy from reclaiming it. They would also help their fellow friends by piercing bolts into the enemy. They could also fire from the ship and kill coast guards that are on the beach when approaching it. Tactically, this will boost your shooting to a higher extent, and raise the performance of the army dramatically. Two units would stop the enemy coming near the ships and I think they fair in combat also. When these two units work in harmony, they are capable of making strings of goblins and rats run away. Backed with the four bolt throwers, a dramatical amount of fire power is in this army, and its not in a power-gaming way.

You need to get the points for these units... I see your tight on what your drop, so I'll make minimal suggestions. Two units of ten is a good start:

I would get rid of;
15 - Tome, I dont think this is necessary as you have 4 power dice, dont need 3 spells...
45 - Banner of Murder. I think this is extra movement? I dont think it is fluffy and it won't work especially well on infantry.
180 - Dark Riders , I beleive you are cutting the two units in half now...
10 - Light Armour on Shades, no phsical changes, and I beleive most of the time these save won't even be used, I find Skirmish protects then well enough. Fluff wise, they want to run around killing not being weighed down... AT ALL!
? - I dont know if you were going to reduce the number of shades but it is worth doing so, fluffwise and tactically.

So, that leaves you with 250 points to work with, I suggest adding;

220 - Those two units of crossbow guards, See above.
(40)? - Maybe get full commands to add fluff, however you need those 10 points more
25 - Seal of Ghrond on any of your characters. Ups your DD to a better level.

So leaves you with a mere 1995 army list. The warriors do not lose your fluff, as they do not do the raiding, they are the noble, well payed guards who take all of the credit :D!

Anyway, I hope my suggestions has helped you and please consider it carefully;

Yours sincerely, Little Aaad!

Dranthar
15-11-2007, 00:13
What about the Harpies, should I do the same?

Harpies are 0-1 in the standard Dark Elf list, so you can only really take one unit. If you need to fid points the size of his unit can be dropped however - IIRC 6-7 is apparently the most common size. Remember that aside from avoiding panic checks and fighting other skirmishers, there's normally very little reason to have more harpies than you could fit into contact with an enemy regiment. Also remember that against some armies (especially he fear-causing kind, although your friends don't seem to be taking those armies), harpies are going to be useless for trying to kill things in combat. In that case they're best used for preventing your opponent from marching or in dire circumstances, baiting an enemy unit so you can pull off a flank charge with them.

In regards to how many soldiers a ship can carry, why can't it have a larger capacity than what I assume you're using as a 'standard' ship size? It is fantasy, after all. ;)

One more thing - I like to think of harpies as vicious seagulls with boobies. :D In your list they'll probably ride circle your ships at sea, pouncing on any hapless warrior in your army who looks weak (survival of the fittest) and taking advantage of battles to find fresh meat. ;)

Little Aaad
15-11-2007, 22:08
Any chance of a reply, mate?

Tordeck
16-11-2007, 21:11
Thinking. Will get back to you all on Mon.

Tordeck
26-11-2007, 23:50
Ok, its monday (never said which monday lol) and after a lot of thought and pouring over what was said I have decided to rework the list a bit. here goes

Fleet of Discord

Lord
Highborn 1
Dark Steed
Lance
Shield
Blood Armour
Sea Dragon Cloak
Crown of Black Iron
Seal of Ghrond
241 pts

Hero
Sorceress 2
Dispel scroll x 2
140 pts

Core
Corsairs 1
x 20 w/ Full Command
225 pts

Dark Riders 1
x 5 w/ Full Command
125 pts

Dark Riders 1
x 5 w/ Repeating Cross Bows
Standard
Musician
141 pts

Corsairs 2
x 20 w/ Full Command
225 pts

Dark Riders 2
x 5 w/ Full Command
125 pts

Dark Riders 2
x 5 w/ Repeating Cross Bows
Standard
Musician
141 pts

Special
Shades 1
x 5
70 pts

Shades 2
x 5
70 pts

Harpies 0
x 7
91 pts

Rare
Reaper Bolt Thrower 1
x 2
200 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower 2
x 2
200 pts

Total
1994 pts

I was thinking of maybe dropping two more harpies to get the full commands on the RCB Dark Riders but i feel that the unit will be too small. Any thoughts?

EndlessBug
27-11-2007, 01:06
much better IMO, although the sorceress cannot have 75 points of magic items, the Seal of Ghrond has to go onto the highborn.

Personally I'd drop the Stds on the Dark Riders but you seem set in taking them so ok. It's good that you've dropped the harpies lower and the shades into 2 groups of 5.

2 units of 10 warriors with RxBs & shields would be very useful instead of the 2 Dark Rider units without RxBs. As Little Aaad you can fit these into the fluff as most ships do have archers of some sorts on, also as guards it works nicely too.

Can I ask, where did the shades appear from if they're mercs that were on the landing area anyway?

Tordeck
27-11-2007, 23:47
Oops. Wasnt thinking again. Ur right on the Sorc. Edited list.
The standards and musicians are on the second sets of riders for "tactical" reasons, the 4 units of Riders are actually 2 units that have been split. The unit leader needs a way to communicate orders to the detachment and the thats what the standards/musicians are for. And no warriors are beign put into the list. Doesnt fit the fluff IMO. As for the shades, A currier was sent to enlist them as scouts in advance of a planned raid. how they got there is their own deal. The noble just needed some eyes and ears. Or since they are now two units they coudl just be written in as parts of the ships crew. And I took Dranthar's gulls with boobies idea and used it for the the harpies. So now each ship has its full compliment plus the gulls that are flying above.

Tordeck
08-01-2008, 01:05
I've decided to up the points of this list to 2250. And I would like some opinions of what i should add/modify to get there. I am not looking to rework the entire list. just tweak it a bit.

Tordeck
24-01-2008, 15:38
Totally reworked the list as well as expanding it to 2250

Fleet of Discord

Lord
Highborn
Dark Steed
Lance
Shield
Blood Armour
Sea Dragon Cloak
Crown of Black Iron
Seal of Ghrond
241 pts

Hero
Sorceress
Dispel scroll x 2
140 pts

Core
Warriors
Warriors x 10
Repeating Cross Bows
130 pts

Warriors
Warriors x 10
Repeating Cross Bows
130 pts

Corsairs
x 20 w/ Full Command
225 pts

Corsairs
x 20 w/ Full Command
225 pts

Dark Riders
x 5 w/ Full Command
125 pts

Dark Riders
x 5 w/ Full Command
125 pts

Dark Riders
x 5 w/ Repeating Cross Bows
Standard
Musician
141 pts

Dark Riders
x 5 w/ Repeating Cross Bows
Standard
Musician
141 pts

Special
Shades
x 5
70 pts

Shades
x 5
70 pts

Harpies
x 6
78 pts

Rare
Reaper Bolt Thrower
x 2
200 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower
x 2
200 pts

Total
2241 pts