PDA

View Full Version : Abbadon's Planet Destroyer: What was the big deal?



OnlyInDeath
09-11-2007, 23:19
Apparently everyone was scared that Abbadon had a weapon that could destroy an entire planet.

And yet...the Imperium knocks off a few planets every day before Brunch. Its just they do it with Exterminatus and not all flashy and Death Star like.

What was the big deal with the Planet Killer?

BigEaZyE
09-11-2007, 23:30
Uh.....

It's a really big gun... and Abbaddon = bad.

I have no idea.

bertcom1
09-11-2007, 23:33
It destroys planets entirely, not just all life on the planet.

And it does this in not much more than half an hour after achieving orbit.

Nugottlich
09-11-2007, 23:42
Not to mention that Exterminatus is treated a wee bit more seriously than 'knocking off a few before lunch'...

Iracundus
09-11-2007, 23:45
The Planet Killer's main gun destroys planets, not merely sterilizes them like Exterminatus, and is also an energy weapon and not dependent on ammunition. The Imperium's methods of Exterminatus rely on munitions, whereas the Planet Killer can destroy a planet, head out into the depths of deep space to recharge, and come back to destroy another planet all without resupplying.

Nugottlich
09-11-2007, 23:51
Recharging is kind of like re-supplying, or 'reloading' if you will.

Ward.
09-11-2007, 23:51
Also the planet killer can kill other things as well.

Iracundus
09-11-2007, 23:55
The Planet Killer isn't reliant on a supply line for its planet killing ability. It can recharge its gun from its reactors. The Imperium's methods for Exterminatus rely on having the special munitions, which aren't standard issue. They're only equipped as standard on Space Marine battle barges and Inquisition ships. They are otherwise limited in supply.

Eetion
10-11-2007, 00:49
I suppose its more what the Planet Killer represents.
Gun aside.

Its a vessel of immense proportions built within the eye, Its capabilities are fearsome and according to the AdMech it should simply not exist in real space given the physics involved. It is the symbol, the potential of what Chaos can construct, and that the Imperium has absolutely no capability to match it.

BlackLegion
10-11-2007, 01:12
Exterminatus is a serious task. Something which isn't undertaking lightly.
But Abbadon uses the Planetkiller as he pleases and destroys planets here and there all the way.

The Imperiumis picky on which planet do destroy. But the Planetkiller eats planets for breakfast..every day :D

Nugottlich
10-11-2007, 01:26
I think Eetion hit the nail on the head.

Argastes
10-11-2007, 01:39
The big deal is simply that, unlike Exterminatus, the planet-killer is not under the control of the Imperium. Abaddon would probably use it to destroy planets that the Imperium doesn't want destroyed, whereas Exterminatus only gets used on planets the Imperium does want destroyed. It's not that it's capabilities significantly exceed those of the Imperial equivalents; it's that there is now someone out there with planet-killing firepower and the desire and ability to use it against the Imperium, which was (kind of) unprecedented before the planet killer appeared. So basically it's an issue of who has it, rather than whether it represents an advance over Exterminatus weapons.


The Planet Killer isn't reliant on a supply line for its planet killing ability. It can recharge its gun from its reactors.

But unless the 40K setting includes infinite-energy machines (which I don't think it does), those reactors would have to be refueled eventually, so the effect is the same: The weapons system in question is not capable of operating indefinitely without resupply.

Hellbore
10-11-2007, 02:34
Unless they're 'warp-reactors' or some such literary device, as it was constructed in the Eye of Terror, so it doesn't have to make sense.

Nugottlich
10-11-2007, 02:39
Ah, handwavium breeder reactors, that solves that problem!

Gorthor21
10-11-2007, 02:48
well all that really matters now is that its destroyed

it makes one wonder if abbadon and all them can make more of these ships, and maybe, just maybe...

Iracundus
10-11-2007, 06:07
Argastes, your position is directly contradicted by GW. The Planet Killer's abilities are different from the Imperium's methods of Exterminatus. It is not a question of ownership but of what the destruction involves.


The effect on Imperial morale was devastating. All had heard of Exterminatus with fusion torpedoes, virus bombs and mass drivers, but to know the enemy had the ability to destroy an entire planet, not just all life on it, must have been the most chilling thought that any naval crewman had ever faced. p. 95-96, BFG rulebook

The key use of the word "just" is indicator of what the Imperium's normal Exterminatus weapons are capable of. They sterilize the planet, whereas the Planet Killer does a Death Star impression and reduces the planet itself to rubble and asteroids.

azimaith
10-11-2007, 06:14
Besides, exterminatus doesn't even necessarily sterelize a planet. Tyranid organisms can handle it, ableit uncomfortable, even above the surface with larget beasts.

I also believe there are reports where if your in a sealed bunker its survivable for as long as your air-supply holds out. (As the atmospheres been converted by the burn)

Kandarin
10-11-2007, 06:20
It's not really a major issue compared to the aforementioned psychological value of the Planet Killer, but unlike Exterminatus, the Planet Killer poses a risk to ships orbiting the purged planet.

chris.seraphim
10-11-2007, 08:26
Whats the big deal? Heres a scenario...

Following the breakout from Cadia, imperial pickets on the edge of the -insert name here- system detect a huge Chaos fleet translating in-system. They are led by the Planet Killer, despite a valiant defense the Imperial defenders cannot stop the Planet Killer achieving orbit, mere minutes later, -insert name here- has been reduced to dust! The Imperial defenses are in disarray as the main Chaos fleet translates out of system, ready to strike another target.

Just place some names into -insert name here- like HOLY freaking TERRA! OK, maybe thats a battle Abaddon could not (yet) win, but if he did the same to places like Bakka, Necromunda or started hitting SM homeworlds, like Baal, Fenris, or Macragge, then the fabric of the imperium would start unravewlling pretty quickly. Maybe a concerted campaign against Forge Worlds to cripple the Imperium's manufacturing capabilities?

Basically, the Planet Killer is/was a marvelous tactical and psychological tool. Big deal indeed.

Iracundus
10-11-2007, 08:36
The Planet Killer hasn't been destroyed. During the Eye of Terror campaign, Space Marines teleported into the ship and knocked out its shields as it fired on the planet Macharius in the Cadia system. A fragment of the planet struck the ship and it was seen spinning out of control into space.

However, from the Apocalypse book battle report which from the cues in the introduction takes place in the Thesus sector, still during the 13th Black Crusade, Abaddon again has the Planet Killer as his flagship. The Thesus sector was not one of the areas fought over in the EoT campaign, which was about the initial assault. The only conclusion to be drawn from this therefore is that the Thesus sector is another sector away from the initial Gate sectors, and that Abaddon has recovered and repaired the Planet Killer.

Sojourner
10-11-2007, 08:55
The main terror is that destroying planets is the Imperium's last and most desperate defence against Chaos. Now Chaos has that ability as well - they probably did before, but the Planet Killer represents certainty that they can do everything you can. The Imperium is its principal worlds; the Chaos legions are largely nomadic. The Imperium simply can't survive without its vulnerable industrial and population centres.

Further, the Planet Killer delivers this power in a package that's practically impossible to stop - and that's why it's so terrifying. It's a monstrous battleship that comes with an equally monstrous accompanying fleet - so the Imperium isn't even confident that it can put up a sturdy defence of a planet they really, really don't want blown to pieces.

DantesInferno
10-11-2007, 09:27
Following the breakout from Cadia, imperial pickets on the edge of the -insert name here- system detect a huge Chaos fleet translating in-system. They are led by the Planet Killer, despite a valiant defense the Imperial defenders cannot stop the Planet Killer achieving orbit, mere minutes later, -insert name here- has been reduced to dust! The Imperial defenses are in disarray as the main Chaos fleet translates out of system, ready to strike another target.

Just place some names into -insert name here- like HOLY freaking TERRA! OK, maybe thats a battle Abaddon could not (yet) win, but if he did the same to places like Bakka, Necromunda or started hitting SM homeworlds, like Baal, Fenris, or Macragge, then the fabric of the imperium would start unravewlling pretty quickly. Maybe a concerted campaign against Forge Worlds to cripple the Imperium's manufacturing capabilities?

This raises the question of exactly how insane Abaddon and the lords of the Traitor Legions have become. Do they just want to cast down the Imperium, "let the galaxy burn", and laugh over its ashes?

Or do they have twisted dreams of toppling the Imperium, killing the False Emperor, and ruling the galaxy themselves (as was the plan during the Heresy)?

If it's the former, they certainly will use Exterminatus and Planet Killer type weapons to their hearts' content. If it's the latter, they'll be a bit more circumspect in their use. There's no point in blowing up essential planets you'll need later on in your own rule.

And some of Abaddon's behaviour bears out the second alternative. He offered ultimata to planets in the Gothic sector before he destroyed them, after all. Some surrendered, and were spared the firepower of the Planet Killer.

Weavetoucher
10-11-2007, 09:42
And some of Abaddon's behaviour bears out the second alternative. He offered ultimata to planets in the Gothic sector before he destroyed them, after all. Some surrendered, and were spared the firepower of the Planet Killer.

And when the inquisition found out were these 'chaos-lover' planets sentenced to Exterminatus for being corrupt?? Seems its just a choice of how quick they wanted to die...

Argastes
10-11-2007, 11:15
And when the inquisition found out were these 'chaos-lover' planets sentenced to Exterminatus for being corrupt?? Seems its just a choice of how quick they wanted to die...

Yeah, it was a lose-lose for those planets, but that's beside the point. The point is that Abaddon's behavior suggests he is interested in more than just wanton destruction as revenge against the Imperium. He has a plan.

Delicious Soy
10-11-2007, 12:20
The big deal is simply that, unlike Exterminatus, the planet-killer is not under the control of the Imperium. Abaddon would probably use it to destroy planets that the Imperium doesn't want destroyed, whereas Exterminatus only gets used on planets the Imperium does want destroyed. It's not that it's capabilities significantly exceed those of the Imperial equivalents; it's that there is now someone out there with planet-killing firepower and the desire and ability to use it against the Imperium, which was (kind of) unprecedented before the planet killer appeared.I don't think its even a matter of capacity, I think its a matter of political will. The main reason the Imperium has reacted againt the Tyranids the way it has is that it has never encountered a force that has complete annihilation as its objective. Other prominent races such as Eldar and even Orks no doubt possess the capacity to either destroy planets wholesale or at least render them inhospitable to life, its just that no one really has had the desire to do so as everyone has had a vested interest in maintaining some sembelance of viability in plantary ecosystems.

Only the Imperium has ever really possessed the poltical desire to obliterate a planet's ecosystem and even then the interest has primarily been political, not military, not to mention highly classified. The Imperium does not broadcast the fact they've annihilated a planet through exterminatus.

The Planet Killer changes this paradigm. Before the Gothic War, the chaos legions might have wiped out Imperial populations or rendered them into slavery but they always kept the planet for their own. With the arrival of the Planet Killer, Chaos now possessed and wilfully used its ability to destroy planets. This was used not in terms of political security but in an offensive manner, to wipe out cores of resistance, or simply as an excercise in terror to cowl other populations within a sub-sector into surrender or at least render their defense less effective through spreading panic.

Obviously the Imperium has a problem with such tactics. Inquisitor Kryptman was declard excommunicate for using Exterminatus as an offensive action against the Tyranids, even with the survival of the Imperium at stake. To have similiar power in the possession of a rival human leadership, with the backing of the chaos gods no less represents a serious threat to anyone who has even a smidgen of knowledge regarding the heresy. In effect the Planet Killer represents the most dire poltical threat to come from the Eye of Terror since the days of the Horus Heresy.

k'ron
10-11-2007, 12:43
I think a lot of the deal over the planet killer is psychological. For years the imperials could feel comfortable in the knowledge that they had the ability to hold chaos back in key warzones such as the cadian gate.

However with the advent of the planet killer the imperium no longer has such a great level of security, cause if one has been built by chaos that means they could potentially build more and if enough of this class of ships turned up they could have the potential to permanantly destroy key imperial positions while survivng orbital defences and holding off enemy fleets.

heretics bane
10-11-2007, 13:02
and it would take a lot of torpedos and ships for the imperials to destory a planet, the planet it killer on the other hadn basicly turns the planet "inside-out" and blows it into asteroids etc. and thats just one ship and with just one shot.

Logarithm Udgaur
10-11-2007, 13:59
Ah, handwavium breeder reactors, that solves that problem!

Thanks for the new sig Nugottlich.

Easy E
10-11-2007, 14:17
A fragment of the planet struck the ship and it was seen spinning out of control into space.

Someone please tell me that part isn't true.

Spinning...into...space.

Only for long enough to come back in the sequel right.

The pestilent 1
10-11-2007, 14:37
Someone please tell me that part isn't true.

Spinning...into...space.

Only for long enough to come back in the sequel right.

As I recall a Grey Knight Battle company boarded the ship and took out it's shields and it was "lost" in the explosion.

The same way it was "Lost" in the Gothic war I imagine.

Iracundus
10-11-2007, 14:48
Not quite correct. It was an EoT campaign event organized by GW. The Space Marines won a partial victory in that event so they took out the Planet Killer's shield generators even though they were unable to stop the ship from firing its weapon at Macharia in the Cadia system. The shield generator loss itself wouldn't have destroyed the Planet Killer but as a result of being shieldless, the Planet Killer was struck by a large debris fragment from the now destroyed Imperial planet and was last seen by the Imperials tumbling towards deep space.

However, in the Apoc book rolls around, Abaddon is shown as commanding from the bridge of the fully operational Planet Killer. The Imperial Navy really needs to learn by now it needs to finish the job and not assume the Planet Killer's destruction.

Logarithm Udgaur
10-11-2007, 15:21
Assuming it is the same ship is a mistake I think. Who is to say that the traitor Mechs are not turning these things out at an alarming rate (like every eight years or so)?

Iracundus
10-11-2007, 15:24
Because if they were so easily mass produced, the Eot campaign would have had Abaddon's fleets all armed with them. BFG sources say the Planet Killer took 158 years to construct, at least as estimated by Imperial forces based on intelligence they recovered. It then took anywhere from 1-3 years from the time of completion before the Planet Killer was fully operational and seen in battle, again from BFG sources listing the timeline of the Planet Killer's history.

heretics bane
10-11-2007, 15:44
well old abbadons been hanging around the EOT for roughly 10k years so if he was to make one every 158 years he would be now have about 63.3. thats assuming he though the idea up back the and the fact that resources to build such things in the EOT are incedingly rare.

Iracundus
10-11-2007, 15:47
The Planet Killer's construction started in 982.M40 and finished in 139.M41. If Abaddon had had more than one, he would have used them during the Eye of Terror campaign. He certainly used both of his Blackstone Fortresses. He's never been one to hold back from revealing his superweapons.

Mechanicus
10-11-2007, 15:52
I would presume that this incident in Apocalypse of Abaddon being on the Planet Killer would be before it was hit and tumbled away, though I don't have the book.

Iracundus
10-11-2007, 16:00
The battle report in the Apoc book, as I stated in my earlier posts, took place in the Thesus sector. The Eye of Terror campaign which chronicled the initial stages of the 13th Black Crusade had no Thesus sector, meaning it must not be one of the sectors immediately part of the Cadian Gate.

Also, after Abaddon's little embarrassment in that report, it is reported that he and his Crusade would go no further until he has had his revenge and that the Thesus sector is set to be engulfed in war. If these events had occurred before the blasting of Macharia in Cadia, then the destruction of Macharia or all the other fighting in the Eye of Terror campaign wouldn't have happened as Abaddon would have still been embroiled in the Thesus sector. The fact that all the stuff in the campaign happened however leads to the conclusion that the Thesus sector's events happen after Cadia was mostly overrun, which then leads to the conclusion that the Planet Killer was recovered after its mishap.

Killgore
10-11-2007, 17:50
psychologicaly there is no single weapon as powerful as the planetkiller, theres a story in the BFG book about some Imperial monitership crewmen witnessing the planetkiller destroy the world they was trying to protect, they was so affected by the experience the entire ships crew killed themselfs in a suiside pact a few months after the attack

theres alot in the BFG book after the terror the PK had on imperial worlds, the appearance of the PK would make planets surrender without a fight

The pestilent 1
10-11-2007, 18:29
However, in the Apoc book rolls around, Abaddon is shown as commanding from the bridge of the fully operational Planet Killer. The Imperial Navy really needs to learn by now it needs to finish the job and not assume the Planet Killer's destruction.

His, fully armed and operation Battle station, if you will. :p



I should note that it was down to the hand of darkness and / or the eye of night (One was used to activate the blackstones. Frakked if I remember which) is what gives the Planet killer its power -hence only one.
Atleast that's what I recall from the BFG rule book... It's gone AWOL a bit.

And I wrote that with a pair of boxers on my head. I'm not sure why.

El_Machinae
10-11-2007, 19:39
psychologicaly there is no single weapon as powerful as the planetkiller, theres a story in the BFG book about some Imperial monitership crewmen witnessing the planetkiller destroy the world they was trying to protect, they was so affected by the experience the entire ships crew killed themselfs in a suiside pact a few months after the attack

theres alot in the BFG book after the terror the PK had on imperial worlds, the appearance of the PK would make planets surrender without a fight

As long as they killed themselves before spreading terrorising stories! Don't want to hurt morale!

Quentin
10-11-2007, 19:47
As long as they killed themselves before spreading terrorising stories! Don't want to hurt morale!

I am quite confident in the Commissariat's abilities to... discourage such preposterous allegations from the gibbering mouths of the lunatic.

Abaddon's Planet Destroyer does not exist... ;)

GodofWarTx
10-11-2007, 20:00
Besides, exterminatus doesn't even necessarily sterelize a planet. Tyranid organisms can handle it, ableit uncomfortable, even above the surface with larget beasts.

I also believe there are reports where if your in a sealed bunker its survivable for as long as your air-supply holds out. (As the atmospheres been converted by the burn)



Which, to me, is complete BS, because regardless of how many rippers survive by burying into the crust of a planet, good luck on living past a few days because your creator deemed you not worthy of a digestive system to ease your production, like all tyranid creatures with the exception of lictors and genestealers.

Arianwen
10-11-2007, 20:39
I'm pretty sure it was a blackstone, not the planet killer that did this, but didn't Abaddon kill a sun?

That's beyond what the Imperium can do, destroy an entire system. That's scary!

ps: The planet killer destroys planets totally. this would affect the other planets in the system. Destroying one uninhabited planet can affect the gravity pull on other planets that are populated, discombobulate their orbits and slowly kill them off due to climate change. Just look at Star Trek: Generations.

Ivan Stupidor
10-11-2007, 20:49
I also believe there are reports where if your in a sealed bunker its survivable for as long as your air-supply holds out. (As the atmospheres been converted by the burn)

A significant part of the population of Tallarn survived the virus bombing of their world during the Horus Heresy, for example. Then again, I'm fairly sure virus bombs are the lowest "level" of Exterminatus - the world is considered habitable again within a century or two. Dead, but habitable.

Tegian
10-11-2007, 21:24
Aren't cyclonic torpedos supposed to actually destroy planets? As usual the Ad Mech prolly are more or less unable to manufacture those though.

Killgore
10-11-2007, 22:02
I am quite confident in the Commissariat's abilities to... discourage such preposterous allegations from the gibbering mouths of the lunatic.

Abaddon's Planet Destroyer does not exist... ;)

hehe thats also in the BFG book "having looked at the evidence we have come to the conclusion that plant X destroyed itself due to coninsidental sysmic activity and therefore this planetkiller does not exsist"

ArtificerArmour
10-11-2007, 22:03
Aren't cyclonic torpedos supposed to actually destroy planets? As usual the Ad Mech prolly are more or less unable to manufacture those though.

I thought they just affected the planets weather systems, making drastic climate changes therefore killing the populace.

Ivan Stupidor
10-11-2007, 22:48
I thought they just affected the planets weather systems, making drastic climate changes therefore killing the populace.

They make continent-sized hurricanes made of fire, if I remember the previous Tyranid codex correctly. It's magmatic torpedoes that stand the best chance of shaking the planet apart (like the Ultramarines did to Colchis), as they are designed to burrow into the mantle and set off earthquakes and volcanoes all over the planet.

Iracundus
10-11-2007, 23:21
Just to clear up some further misconceptions.

The destruction of suns (or rather the triggering of novas) during the Gothic War was by the combined power of Blackstone fortresses. These were activated and controlled by the two artifacts "The Hand of Darkness" and the "Eye of Night". These had nothing to do with the Planet Killer.

The fact Imperial morale plummeted after the first planet destruction by the Planet Killer means Commissars could not completely suppress news of this magnitude from leaking out.

heretics bane
11-11-2007, 11:28
I decided to pull some stuff from wiki on Exterminatus


Virus bombs release a special virus designed to quickly spread and destroy cell structures, reducing all planetary life into organic slime. This produces huge volumes of flammable gases as a by-product, which is later ignited and turns the atmosphere into a firestorm that usually takes out whatever is left. Only those who may have escaped into especially-deep underground shelters can survive a Virus Bomb attack. The Tallarnian population managed to escape complete destruction this way, but the once-verdant world was forever transformed into a desert. Virus bombs are known for their extreme speed; in the fiction surrounding the Horus Heresy, they completely wiped out Istvaan III's entire population of 16 billion in just minutes.



Cyclonic torpedoes are much more immediate in action, having enough power to directly ignite a planet's atmosphere. As seen in the images to the right, the blast radius is large enough to be seen from outer space.


Two-stage torpedoes are the most common of a special class of rare Exterminatus weapons, designed for use against atmosphereless or biologically-void worlds (Necron Tomb Worlds being the main example). These have two-stage warheads: The first stage is a melta charge that bores straight through a planet all the way down to its core. The second stage is a modified cyclonic charge that destabilizes it, in most cases physically destroying the planet.

Super Ninja
12-11-2007, 19:08
Not sure about this but i heard it from a friend a while ago.When the imperium Exterminatusazizeses a planet, it just gets raked of all life/chaos filth dinking around on the surface, and after a few thousand years, the imperium comes back and tera formes the planet and makes it livable. When Abadon killz a planet, he killz a planet. He blowz it to bejezzus and back, Death star style. Besides, wouldnt u be kinda sacred if the Nazis or something had a weapon that could blow up your country?