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Lord Humungus
10-11-2007, 01:04
Hey everybody,
I've been charged with putting together a Harlequin formation for my gaming group. A lot of the guys have several of the old models, including characters and jetbikes. Most of the group agrees it would be cool to let them use all those models but don't trust them to make fair rules. I want to get some ideas and feedback from the community.

I'm thinking the formation would go something like:
1 Great Harlequin
0-1 Solitaire
2+ Harlequin Troupes (from Codex: Eldar)
0-2 Harlequin Jetbike Squadrons

I think the Great Harlequin should be:
WS:6 BS:5 S:3 T:3 W:3 I:7 A:4 Ld:10 Sv:4+ inv.
He would have all the same starting rules (+ IC) and equipment as your basic harlequin and would be able to purchase a Fusion Pistol, Kiss, Power Weapon, and Jetbike.

The Soletaire, so far, is:
WS:7 BS:5 S:3 T:3 W:3 I:8 A:4 Ld:-(soulless) Sv: 4+ inv.
I'm not sure what his special rules ought to be. It's a problem with balancing his fluff and his effect on the game. He's supposed to be your worst nightmare able to chew through whole squads of terminators without breaking a sweat. The basic Harlequin stuff is a good starting point, but he needs to have that little extra something to appease the fans.

As far as Death Jesters and Shadowseers go, should they be their own choices in this formation?

I think the Jetbikes are fairly straightforward. It's really a matter of figuring out the right unit size and options. Should they have both pistols and CC weapons? I'm thinking that I won't have the Shadowseer or Death Jester as options.

Am I missing anything? I've heard people talk about mimes, but I haven't seen anything about them in any rulebook, from RT to now. I'd also like to include a few of the more esoteric items of wargear, but not go overboard.

zealot!
10-11-2007, 02:06
GW is apparently making a datasheet extremely similar to the one you are. it looks good so far but id stay away from editing the basic bike. its good and could be way too good too easily.

Lord Humungus
10-11-2007, 02:54
GW is apparently making a datasheet extremely similar to the one you are. it looks good so far but id stay away from editing the basic bike. its good and could be way too good too easily.

That would be nice of them! Although I doubt it'll be available before next weekend.

About the bikes: should they still get the furious charge + hit & run? I know those are tied to their 'Dance of Death' ability, but I think without them, there wouldn't really be much that's special about a Harlequin jetbike vs. Guardians outside of their better BS.

zealot!
10-11-2007, 03:08
no i would count them as normal bikes i mean... without a better bs. it allows you more freedom with the characters and stuff w/o making the list insane or too over-costed.

give warlocks (counts-as harlies) for the bikes embolden or enhance for free and toss in strategic redeployment and flank march and you're headin in the right direction...

just my humble opinions... dont forget counts-as... (you could use the spears' stats)

k'ron
10-11-2007, 10:59
There is a harlequin army list on the games workshop us website. They say its unofficial and it appears to be using 3rd edition rules but I believe that this would be a very good place to look as it has rules for the solitaire and harlequin jets bikes which should be relatively easy to update to 4th edition basing the points upon the cost of the new harlequins and working from there. Hope this helps

IJW
10-11-2007, 11:11
If you have a look through the rules development forum there are already a few scattered around, mostly in their own threads. Might be worth looking at for extra inspiration.

http://warseer.com/forums/rules-development-forum/

Bregalad
10-11-2007, 11:25
Am I missing anything?
First you missed the point costs, which are decisive.
And a solitaire without LD, not passing any LD test is weird. Look for assassin rules.
Death Jesters should possibly be a separate choice, or noone would take them.
Mimes (and the Venom transporter) are in the official 3rd edition Codex Harlequin still found on the US website:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/eldar/gaming/harlequins.htm

Endemion
10-11-2007, 12:16
The solatair should not be able to join a unit - not right minded eldar will have anything to do with the representation of Slaanesh

Grazzy
10-11-2007, 12:20
The solitaire should have that extra attacks thing from the unofficial codex. This codex should be able to give you ideas for wargear etc...

Lord Humungus
10-11-2007, 21:30
Mind you guys, I have read the semi official codex, the 2nd Ed Eldar Codex and the RT Harlequin list.


First you missed the point costs, which are decisive.
And a solitaire without LD, not passing any LD test is weird. Look for assassin rules.
Death Jesters should possibly be a separate choice, or noone would take them.
Mimes (and the Venom transporter) are in the official 3rd edition Codex Harlequin still found on the US website:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/eldar/gaming/harlequins.htm

The lack of Solitaire leadership is part of the representation of his "Spiritless" ability.

Mimes are not in the 3rd ed Codex, nor are they in any other officially released rules I can find.

Also assigning point costs to things before the abilities are settled is futile.



The solatair should not be able to join a unit - not right minded eldar will have anything to do with the representation of Slaanesh

I concur. That's also part of his Spiritless ability.



The solitaire should have that extra attacks thing from the unofficial codex. This codex should be able to give you ideas for wargear etc...

I'm on the fence about this one. I like that it's an ability unique to him and that it makes him a total badass. I worry that it makes him too good, though. It gives him extreme mobility and/or killy-ness. Perhaps if there was a cap on the number of extra attack, it would work.

kikkoman
10-11-2007, 22:00
The solatair should not be able to join a unit - not right minded eldar will have anything to do with the representation of Slaanesh

and his name's the solitaire, I think that's enough implication of his independent status, hahah.

Bregalad
11-11-2007, 02:02
The lack of Solitaire leadership is part of the representation of his "Spiritless" ability.
Okay, I checked the 3rd edition rules. The Solitaire has no LD there either, but passes all LD tests automatically (this is an important fact).


Mimes are not in the 3rd ed Codex, nor are they in any other officially released rules I can find.
Mimes and Master Mimes are not in the 3rd edition rules, but in the original rules from WD # 105. In comparison to the standard Harlequin trooper, they are +1 or +2 on almost all stats (including 2 wounds) and infiltrators.


Also assigning point costs to things before the abilities are settled is futile.
Okay, right.

Lord Humungus
11-11-2007, 08:58
Mimes and Master Mimes are not in the 3rd edition rules, but in the original rules from WD # 105. In comparison to the standard Harlequin trooper, they are +1 or +2 on almost all stats (including 2 wounds) and infiltrators.

At first I was shocked at the stat, but then I remembered that every level of "heroism" in the RT days came with a general +1 or better to all stats. Really, it sounds like the Mimes would be infiltrating Harlequins. Still COMPLETELY EVIL! If they haven't been around for the last three editions of the game, I don't think anyone in my group will moan too much about them not being included in this list.

IJW
11-11-2007, 09:23
Mimes and Master Mimes are not in the 3rd edition rules, but in the original rules from WD # 105. In comparison to the standard Harlequin trooper, they are +1 or +2 on almost all stats (including 2 wounds) and infiltrators.
They are given a statline but that's all. They don't appear in the actual army list in the next issue.

EDIT - one possible way to represent the Mimes as they were in the original description in Apoc (although possibly too powerful) would be to count the entire board as having a Disruptor Beacon for the Harlequin side. A bit like the old Pathfinder disruption chart.