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feintstar
10-11-2007, 02:28
Dragon mage
level 2, silver wand, powerstone, dispel scroll
435

Archmage
Book of Hoeth
360

BSB, heavy armour, shield
Radient Gem of Hoeth (with always strike first, Pha's Illumination will be a lot more likely to happen these days)
161


10 Archers
110

17 Seaguard, FC
229


13 Swordmasters, FC and Banner of Sorcery, Bladelord with Amulet of light 290

14 Swordmasters, FC and War Banner 260

5 Shadow warriors 85

6 Dragon Princes, Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion, Helm of Fortune 270


3 RBTs 300


2500

PD 13-15ish
DD 5 plus scroll

RavenBloodwind
10-11-2007, 03:05
Just a couple of thought from someone who has seen but not absorbed the new HE army book.

Since the dragon mage gets an extra power die with every spell he casts, is a powerstone necessary? It's not really expensive and I guess if you have 3 spells (if that's what the silver wand does) blindsiding your opponent when he's used up his dispel dice may be a handy/nasty surprise.

I'm guessing the seaguard get a character and can deploy 1x17 to shoot and 3x6 to fight.

The swordmaster sizes starts to get a bit fuzzy though. 2x6 plus change? 7and6? just not quite grasping this one. I'm guessing with 14 attacks striking first with high WS and S5 this should work. Clearly your static CR is fairly marginal but I'm guessing that's not the tool for these guys to win combat anyway.

Dragon princes and shadow warriors seem fine, not sure how many friends you'll make with a dragon and 3 RBTs but it should do fairly well.

Avatar of the Eldar
10-11-2007, 03:12
Dragon mage
level 2, silver wand, powerstone, dispel scroll
435

Archmage
Book of Hoeth
360

BSB, heavy armour, shield
Radient Gem of Hoeth (with always strike first, Pha's Illumination will be a lot more likely to happen these days)
161


10 Archers
110

17 Seaguard, FC
229


13 Swordmasters, FC and Banner of Sorcery, Bladelord with Amulet of light 290

14 Swordmasters, FC and War Banner 260

5 Shadow warriors 85

6 Dragon Princes, Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion, Helm of Fortune 270


3 RBTs 300


2500

PD 13-15ish
DD 5 plus scroll

Hmmm, for what it's worth:

a) Drop a dragon prince and get two more swordmasters (they should be at least 15 each)
b) Drop the shadow warriors for a chariot to support the dragon princes - you have more than enough shooting with 3 bolt throwers, archers and seaguard.
c) Book of Hoeth is a big crapshoot. For consistency and durability you might consider a mixed selection of items starting with the staff of solidity and another dispell scroll.
d) I'd beef up the SM's with the Banner of Sorcery to protect that investment.
e) you might consider swapping one unit of Swordmasters with White Lions to give you versatility - i) better defense against shooting, ii) hard hitting, iii) stubborn and iv) move through woods (which could work with you DP's Banner of Elyrion)
f) and consider switching seaguard with spears and build a bigger block of 20+ 6 wide

I'm not yet decided whether Seaguard are worth it.

Good luck!

feintstar
10-11-2007, 04:13
Cheers guys.

The Swordmaster units are designed to be 2 ranks of 7, the 13 strong one has the BSB, while the 17 strong Seaguard (plus archmage) are designed to shoot in 2 ranks of 9, then form up for 3 x 6 while still shooting.

I have considered going for white Lions, I do love the models, and I've got a fair few of them too...I'll playtest and change when necessary...

And no, the powerstone isn't really necessary, but something makes me grin when I think of a level 2 caster casting on 6 powerdice... ;D I know it is dying to miscast, but I think it'd be just sooo funny I'll have to do it anyway.

As for the Book of Hoeth... could someone post an alternative loadout for an archmage?

I'm into the lore of shadow, esp. for this list, as I can throw unseen lurker at the dragon and wings of shadow at the BSB for maximum movement phase mayhem. Curse those anvils of Doom!

Crube
10-11-2007, 08:22
I like the overall sound of the list. Let us know how you get on with the SM vs WL choice....

Ecclesiastes
10-11-2007, 10:48
The book of Hoeth is a very nice item, but it has it's manual. If you use your archmage as the sole caster in your army its a nice thing to have a 'almost' guaranteed cast. Other thing is, that if you have an archmage doing 2 IF spells your opponent will have his full dispel pile and his scrolls left to counter your dragon mage, making him far less effective than he can be. If you use multiple casters, I would drop the book, because then you get a far greater toll on his dispel-and scrollpile. Consider the seer-staff with the ring of fury for some offensive power, or the Annulian Crystal with scrolls for some defence, or a mix :)

Avatar of the Eldar
10-11-2007, 16:00
The book of Hoeth is a very nice item, but it has it's manual. If you use your archmage as the sole caster in your army its a nice thing to have a 'almost' guaranteed cast. Other thing is, that if you have an archmage doing 2 IF spells your opponent will have his full dispel pile and his scrolls left to counter your dragon mage, making him far less effective than he can be. If you use multiple casters, I would drop the book, because then you get a far greater toll on his dispel-and scrollpile. Consider the seer-staff with the ring of fury for some offensive power, or the Annulian Crystal with scrolls for some defence, or a mix :)

Well said about the BoH. It's sexy but limiting.

For some time I've taken the Staff of Solidity + Ring of Fury + Dispell Scroll + Seer. The Staff is a huge insurance policy over the long run and in the last 30 or so games I've NEVER miscast twice in one game with my Archmage, thus always keeping 6 + D3 PD (Banner of Sorcery) throughout the game.

Now that Honors are gone, and the Ring of Fury is more expensive, I'm going to have to do some re-thinking. Off hand I'll probably stick with the kit above minus the Seer Honor. My second choice is the Annulian Crystal + Ring + Scroll. Now that the Ring of Corin is not worth it, my Lvl 2 Mage will probably take the Seerstaff + Jewel of the Dusk or another Scroll.

Zensunni
10-11-2007, 19:53
"Seerstaff + Jewel of the Dusk or another Scroll."

This is illegal. The seer staff and Jewel of Dusk are both arcane. Cannot take both. Scroll is fine though.

feintstar
11-11-2007, 23:18
OK so I had a game with a modified version of this list, using White Lions.

List looked something like:

Dragonmage lvl 2
Silver wand + 2 Scrolls

Archmage lvl4
BoH

BSB, Greatweapon, Sheild, Heavy armour, RGoH

10 Archers
16 Seaguard, FC

14 Swordmasters, FC, Warbanner
17 White Lions, FC, Banner of Sorcery
5 Shadow Warriors
6 Dragon Princes, FC, Banner of Ellyrion

3 RBTs

It was vs a Lizard List with 2 x 12 Saurus Cav units, maybe 4 big blocks of Skinks, a big block of saurus, and some sallies. He was using one of the blessed spawnings for Dispell dice, and hadn't got any casters.

It was a massacre, in my favour. By the end of turn 4, he'd lost both saurus cav units, his general was fleeing, most of the skinks had been wiped out and the saurus were being marched blocked into obscurity. The sallies were about to be charged by the White Lions.
In response, I'd lost the dragon, 3 swordmasters, a couple of LSG, and the BSB (and I only barely lost him - by rights he should've lived if I'd known what it would mean to reform a champion into a won combat).

Now he made mistakes, but he didn't actually see what they were, even in retrospect. I made some mistakes too, but my static shooting approach left less room for error, and it left a bitter taste in his mouth. 400+ points worth of saurus cavalry went pounding into the swordmasters, only to get soundly beaten and wiped out with minimal casualties. This guy used to mince everyone he came across. He now claims he'll never face HE again. I feel a little guilty actually. Is this list all that bad?

Loki73
12-11-2007, 07:35
Use it! Its in the list and leagal. What are we not supposed to use stuff cause people becry cheese. Biggest cop-out ever. Play what you want as long as its a legal list.

If he is not gonna play HE anylonger because he got beaten, thats pretty bad. I would be scouring my book for a counter if it were me. Loosing encourages me to learn and do better next time.

Zeb
12-11-2007, 07:52
Dragonmage lvl 2
Ring of Fury + 2 Scrolls


Well, that makes the list illegal. Since you have 40pts of Scrolls + 40pts of Ring for a total of 80pts on a character with a limit of 50pts for magic items.

Other than that, tough list, but fair. But I can understand that the Dragon mage set up might have caused some havoc for your opponent since you do add both offense an defense where you probably just would have to decide to use one or the other.

brambleten
12-11-2007, 07:57
. He was using one of the blessed spawnings for Dispell dice, and hadn't got any casters.

that would be tepok

i like the second list, good to see someone who recognises that a dragon takes a hero slot, unlike GW... (pg 73 of the HE book, bottom picture, count the characters)

feintstar
12-11-2007, 11:33
Whoops, I didn't mean ring of Fury, I meant silver wand. Got wires crossed. Editing now.

He rolled up Fireball, fiery blast, and I swapped another for the flaming sword. He cast 9 PD. 9!!!

Thing with this list is it can do everything well. Shoot well, magic well, combat well, move well. And for the superlative superiority, I pay with a tiny model count. Yay! Less painting.