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View Full Version : ever felt sorry for someone?



berzerka
10-09-2005, 17:27
I went gaming today at the local shop. My opponent was a kid around the 14 years or something. He was playing an ork army. He didnt know the rules that good. It was obvious that he was still in the learning phase.
we played a 1000 points cleanse mission. At turn 2 i had whiped out almost 50-60% of his army and I still had like 85-90% of my army. So in turn 3 I just didnt shoot with 2 normal squads and 1 heavy bolter squad. It had really hurt his army if I did shoot with them. in turn 4 I start even to move units to real strang spots which made it lot easier for him. at turn 6 I had claimed 2 quarters and he had 1. the last 1 was a draw. I had the ability to kill easily everything what he still had on board but something stopped me for doing that

conclusion: It seems I dont like winning easy that much. I like battles with a bit of challenge the most.

what do you think?

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
10-09-2005, 17:34
? i wouldnt do that, but i do like having a challenge, massacres are never fun

Insane Psychopath
10-09-2005, 17:52
I would say after the game, you should maybe give him some tip. Just show him what you would off done. This way the next time you fight hopeful he would be more of a challege & having a better knowlege on how to do good.

I don't mean this in any bad way but this is what I do if I fought someone who new to the hobby. Of course I'll let them win against my GT army* for the first time & give them some pointer after the game.

It has pop up now & then but as said I'll let them win if it is there first game, but is they are being big headed then I tend to not let them have it so easy. But if there cool & willing to learn I'll happly let them win there first game against me & help them both army list & tactic after the game.

* I use my GT (Grand Tournament) army mainly because I have arrange to meet someone to get a few test games. But because it might be during a hoilday there will be a few of the younger lot in waiting to get a few games. So to fill up the time until my opponet turn up I'll give them a game.
Just so you lot understand & don't start flaming me, going "Take his launch money while you that it".

End of the day there like us, learning. But for the newer gamer they do need some help. It basicly like us when we start a new army or say you play 40k for 7 years & then chose to play a bit of WFB your bound to lose & you learn from that with a few tips from the opponet.

IP

Luke
10-09-2005, 18:00
well even though i love the game, i am a crap player and always take a serious massacre-ing every time i step out. my opponents never once tried to let me win or even console my defeats. i have resigned about 30% of every game i have played. it makes no odds to me if i get beat though. but i can understand how a newbie dude could get bored and disheartened if he got whomped prety bad every game he played.

*IF* i was ever in he same position (doubtful, i am awful) then i would probably tone my game down a bit but not make it obvious i was giving him an advantage.

berzerka
10-09-2005, 18:01
While we where playing I kept saying why I did every step and just wanted him to have a good time to. After the game he asked me what he best could change in his army and I said what I would do with his army. He took my advise and asked me for an another game.

Rabid Bunny 666
10-09-2005, 18:04
i normally try to give advice, like a 'nid player down at sluff, i told him to use refused flank tactics against shooty armies and use the gaunts as a diatraction. thoes devourer armed gitz took down 10 templars in one round!

berzerka
10-09-2005, 18:04
well even though i love the game, i am a crap player and always take a serious massacre-ing every time i step out. my opponents never once tried to let me win or even console my defeats. i have resigned about 30% of every game i have played. it makes no odds to me if i get beat though. but i can understand how a newbie dude could get bored and disheartened if he got whomped prety bad every game he played.

*IF* i was ever in he same position (doubtful, i am awful) then i would probably tone my game down a bit but not make it obvious i was giving him an advantage.

I didnt do it too obvious. after I gave him the turn I said something like "Oh, **** know you can destroy that unit with ease". It made him happy when he chopped my imperial guadsmen to pieces with his slugga boys.

Luke
10-09-2005, 18:06
well if hes stil in the learining phase im sure he would be happy for tactical advice. i know i would.

Ramon
10-09-2005, 18:08
And? how was the second game a good one?

There is no reason to feel sorry for someone with such good attitude, you should feel sorry for someone that even after being cleanly beatten by a refrained gamer will claim cheese or something like that.

You found a player that wants to learn. Just feel good.

StugMeister
10-09-2005, 18:10
Did he ever display that old 'kicked puppy' look?

My mate constantly, when getting destroyed, has the old kicked puppy look. It kinda makes you feel guilty of being lucky with the dice and having a better strategy overall.

berzerka
10-09-2005, 18:13
And? how was the second game a good one?

There is no reason to feel sorry for someone with such good attitude, you should feel sorry for someone that even after being cleanly beatten by a refrained gamer will claim cheese or something like that.

You found a player that wants to learn. Just feel good.

May be I said it wrong. didnt felt sorry for him but felt sorry for him that I defeated his army big time.
and the second wasnt really a battle. It was an massacre where 2 armies just charged into eachother ;) . I didnt had the time to play him because the first one took so long

Olith
10-09-2005, 18:15
I've been in this situation many times. As an ex staff member I often had younger gamers want to play against me at the gaming club I went to or in the store and the games were always very one sided. Some of them won't learn from their games as with many adult gamers, but the ones I felt could I would talk to and explain where things went wrong and how they could prevent it in the future. Some people just don't have the capacity to play the game in a way where they actually stand a chance. They don't approach it in the way that the really good players do and don't learn from their games. But that doesn't always mean they don't enjoy playing and collecting.

starlight
10-09-2005, 18:17
New (to the game or army) players who want to learn, especially younger ones? I have all the time in the world for. Heck I'll *abort* a game to spend time teaching them how to defeat my army.

Win at all cost gits? Assuming I even play them, I'll trounce them without a second thought.

Without new gamers where will we get our next opponents? Leadership by example!

GhostLegion
10-09-2005, 18:18
More often than not I am used to teach new players their armies in 40k. This type of massacre is common, and yes, it is not often the most fun for the senior player. I always recomend to players that find themselves playing new people (or people that do not know the rules) that they use the game as a teaching game. it is a good way to test your own knowledge as well as encourage the other player to learn their rules.

masacres like that are never fun...but after having it happen to me, and to my opponents, I am always happy to get a walkthrough of what went wrong afterwards....maybe thats just my penchant for after action reviews though.

Luke
10-09-2005, 18:22
massacres are indeed never fun. sadly, i never play any club gamers only "tourney" freaks with win at all costs attitudes. bleh, i miss the days when i had a GW just next door. i have no choice now who i game against.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
10-09-2005, 18:45
As hard is it is to believe, im not as ******* in real life, and when i go to play at my friends house or at the bunker in Glen Burnie, whenever i play some kid who is new, i always explain to him what i did, why i did it, what he should do and why, and how he could change his army to make it better. I get a sort of satisfaction when i see that same kid, a month or two down the road, playing other people who are new to the game and telling them what i told him. When you help people, they want to help other people, and its like a whole big circle.

Kahadras
10-09-2005, 19:47
The worst I felt was when I took my Eldar army (an arberation from my usual Marine stuff) against a guy who was fairly new to our group (playing Marines). I had taken Dark reapers and a few Starcannon but nothing to major. When we started setting up I commented that his army was really tiny (1500p but he had virtualy nothing a few tactical squads, a command squad, a tank and a dreadnought). He told me that he had taken a couple of traits (counter charge I think). Anyway his army was so badly set up to fight mine it was unbelivable. He had no heavy bolters so my Dark reapers had a field day wiping out nearly 3 full strength tactical squads by themselves. The tank fell to a brightlance. His dreadnought went down the turn after it. Over all I think I lost a squad of rangers compared to his whole army. I was so embarased about the whole thing. It was a shame really as his army was really well painted (a chapter of his own design with a dragon theme) while mine was in the process of being undercoated.

Kahadras

Brother Edwin
10-09-2005, 19:55
Best motto is "next time play better".

Strikerkc
10-09-2005, 19:56
Well, I once just sat staring at the game board with my oponent for about 5 minutes after a secure and control game. it was an 1850 and I had acumulated 3700 victory points at the end of the battle (had all the objectives and killed every single enemy model).

Felt kind of bad. He had never been the best player at our local shop when we had one, and he still hadn't gamed long enough with us to have learned a ton (his usual gameing friends just weren't on the same level as the rest of us really).

He was fine with it though actualy. Said he was glad to finaly get a game in with someone that could really mess an enemy up.

Helicon_One
10-09-2005, 19:57
One thing I've done with a new player before is after the game, play him again but swap armies over. Show him what his units can actually do, and talk him through your turn, pointing out why you're moving the squad, what this particular character is best at, why you're shooting at that particular target, etc.

Tim

warlordgrubnatz
10-09-2005, 20:00
Orks don't play to win they play for fun orkyness.

Sir_Lunchalot
10-09-2005, 20:35
I'd like to say I'd trounce the guy, then tell him how to avoid letting me do that again. However, I seem to be cursed, whenever someone says that it's one of their first few games, I lose. not by choice mind you, but by making stupid mistakes, or more commonly, my dice deciding to rebel. I have a friend who I used to play against regularly (a couple games a week) I lost nearly every game quite badly, but towards the end, I was getting to beating him on a couple occasions, and now he says I'm one of the few people who actually pose a challenge to him. On a couple occasions he asked me if I wanted him to go easy on me, I said no. why? because it wouldn't be a real victory. if someone's not trying, the victory is hollow and meaningless. If you want a game that you win because the difficulty is set to easy, go the electronic route. DoW is quite nice actually...

starlight
10-09-2005, 20:41
It's not just about the ease of the victory. Sometimes it's about the learning experience, sometimes it's about the social aspect (beer can cloud the judgement :rolleyes: ).

If the player is new, I have no problem changing the objectives from Take and Hold to *teach the new guy how to use his army so he comes back next week*. Lead like you want to be treated and you'll have more good opponents. Trash newcomers and a higher pecentage will get frustrated and not bother coming back.

Personally I want more, better opponents.

lord_blackfang
10-09-2005, 21:34
I generally give newbs advice during the game, usually enough for them to actually beat me (not toning my game down, but improving theirs). They seem to like it :)

I don't count it as a loss when I know I could have trounced the opponent in 2 turns, but instead helped him to win and to have good time.

Cade
11-09-2005, 00:17
I always pull my punches when it comes to making 12 year-olds cry and then give up the hobby.

I'll make a few stupid movements and fire at the wrong targets.....hell....I'll even tell them when they've made a bad move or have shot at the wrong target!

If I want a balls-out gore-fest of a game, I'll play another Vet.

If I'm playing a kid, I'll always treat it as a school lesson.

Lafeel Abriel
11-09-2005, 00:41
That's happened a few times. Most notably when one player lost four terminators in one turn..to five storm bolter shots..Not even sure he plays wh any more after that..

Ouroboros
11-09-2005, 21:03
When I end up in this situation I start giving the kid advice on how to destroy my units better as opposed to playing down and making him think he's doing well so he can walk off and get stomped into oblivion in his next game.

So basically when he says "I'll fire my lascannon predator at your guardsman" I'll tell him "wouldn't you rather shoot my Russ instead since it's worth a lot more points than 3 conscripts and has been killing about 4 marines a turn since the game started."

The only thing that really gets to me is when they follow my advice and it doesn't work because they roll horrible and then they give me that look like I misled them on purpose.

You're really not doing them any favours by going ridiculously easy on them though because the simple fact is a lot of people won't and they're going to meet those people reletively quickly and they need to be ready for that.

It's also important I think to mention that pretty much everyone looses their first dozen games or so. That will at least make them feel like it's not just because they suck especially badly.

Vosk
11-09-2005, 21:53
I feel sorry for Brother Edwin. :p

Amongst my group of friends we play with little to no mercy given or expected, though we do all appreciate turning a dire situation into a funny one (prolonging a victory by a turn for example to win in a ridiculously stylish way). I don't go to GW's very much anymore, but when I was a regular there I almost always seemed to come up against people who had little grasp of the game beyond point and shoot. During such games I would sometimes offer up advice to my opponent, sometimes even going so far as to lay out a few good choices for them. It was usually quite well received actually. The games just weren't much of a challenge. Hence, I don't go there much anymore.

Sojourner
11-09-2005, 21:59
One thing I've done with a new player before is after the game, play him again but swap armies over.

That's a great idea. It's totally non-condescending but allows that player to feel satisfied that he achieved something in having that player want to play him again, and can also learn from observation.

FrAnKtHeFrEaK
11-09-2005, 22:05
I've never tried that with a player, I may give it a shot. Like Sojourner said, a great idea, as well as a way to have some variation in your own gaming.

Da Reddaneks
12-09-2005, 00:17
only a jerk is going to get any kind of satisfaction out of creaming a 14 year old kid who doesnt know the rules. I usually throw the game where newbie kids are concerned so that they have a good time. we should all be playing this game so that everyone has fun. Occasionally throwing a game to a kid so that he has a good day, is happy and can brag to his mom about how great he did is often satisfaction enough. Of course i am 37 and "winning" a game of warhammer is extremely low on my priority list of life.

now if the little twirp cops an attitude about it and wants to start talking and endless barrage of smack then the gauntlet has been thrown down.

Wiseman
12-09-2005, 00:51
good to see a show of sportsmanship, most people ive versed will prefer a massacre to a challenge, it makes them feel good or something

adreal
12-09-2005, 06:43
Well for me it sucks, because I havn't gamed much but am considered a Vet because
I hang with and get along with the vets (and been playin as long as) but I dont have as much experience as them as they all live in a share house and play each other as much as possible. So n00bs play me and they often trounce me cause I'm less experinced then them, so I sorta let new kids win cause i simply cant beat them ;)

berzerka
12-09-2005, 13:44
Swapping army's is a very good idea. Next time I try that.

charlie_c67
12-09-2005, 15:28
Want to really feel sorry for someone? How about the opponents of a 150 strong LATD army in a meatgrinder mission? To his credit the bloke did appologise before hand when we found out what our mission was.

snatcheroo
12-09-2005, 16:23
I find it fun to give advice to my opponent if they seem new or are a friend. Since it's a dice game and there is a great deal of chance involved so I don't mind offering advice. You know, reminding them that if they move to a certain spot that they will be opening themselves to fire from such and such or "you'd be better off attacking this group because ..." I don't give them help with everything or with things that would really screw me over but I find that I learn more through teaching and it's also fun to help people who are new or just don't have a strategical mind. In the end it serves to keep them playing longer and enjoy the game more. :)

Jeru
12-09-2005, 17:44
I went gaming today at the local shop. My opponent was a kid around the 14 years or something. He was playing an ork army. He didnt know the rules that good. It was obvious that he was still in the learning phase.
we played a 1000 points cleanse mission. At turn 2 i had whiped out almost 50-60% of his army and I still had like 85-90% of my army. So in turn 3 I just didnt shoot with 2 normal squads and 1 heavy bolter squad. It had really hurt his army if I did shoot with them. in turn 4 I start even to move units to real strang spots which made it lot easier for him. at turn 6 I had claimed 2 quarters and he had 1. the last 1 was a draw. I had the ability to kill easily everything what he still had on board but something stopped me for doing that

conclusion: It seems I dont like winning easy that much. I like battles with a bit of challenge the most.

what do you think?

I always feel bad for people who are trying and are new, but are not 100% sure on whats going on. Some people would take advantage of them and totally massacre them.

I did this to a couple friends in old 40k epic. Pretty much would kill their army in one turn. They didn't stick around in the hobby. As I've gotten older, I appreciate the learning process and teaching a bit more.

I enjoy talking strategy and background more then playing sometimes. Like I said though, I will always try to help out those underdogs who are giving it their best, but are way overmatched.