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Daredhnu
10-11-2007, 14:28
this is my attempt at a decent and balanced Ork Gang feedback is more than welcome.

ORK GANG
Outlanders: same as other outlander gangs.

Bounty: same as other outlander gangs.

So many mouths to feed: Because of their hardy nature and their ability to eat anything Orks and Gretchin only require 2 teef worth of food to escape starvation. Also you can’t choose to feed a gretchin if there are still unfed orks.

Income: Orks generate d3 teef income after each battle if they were taken out of action they generate another d3 teef.
Gretchin can scrounge around for food and generate d6 teef worth of food.
(any excess of food is eaten and can’t be saved)

Waaagh!!!: Orks double their I for pinning purposes if there is another Ork within 2" that isn't down or broken.

Leadership: if an Ork boy challenges the Nob and loses he will never challenge for leadership again, if the Nob loses he will always leave the Gang or be killed scratch him of your gang roster.(you lose his equipment)

Scrounge: if an Ork Gang wins a game they can scrounge around the area afterwards looking for useful bits roll 2d6 on the following table.
2 – nothing
3-6 – found d3 common items (costs half their listed price to make them work again)
7-9 – found d3+2 common items (costs half their listed price to make them work again)
10-11 – found d3 rare items (roll on rare trade chart costs half their listed price to repair)
12 – found d6 rare items (roll on rare trade chart costs half their listed price to repair)
all Hand to Hand weapons found gain the Fumble special rule. (see chains and flails)
All ranged weapons have ammo rolls one worse than normal and always explode when they fail their ammo roll. (lasgun has a 3+ ammo roll for instance)

no techno: except for the Mek no gang member can get techno skills even with a roll of 2 or 12 on the advancement table

Nob 120 teef 60+d6xp (upped from 100 teef)
M:4 / WS:4 / BS:3 / S:3 / T:4 / W:1 / I:3 / A:1 / LD:7
weapons: hand to hand, boyz, nobz, stikkbombz & custom jobz
skills: combat, ferocity, muscle, shooting & leader
special: leader (same as standard gangs)

Boy 60 teef 20+d6xp (upped from 50 teef)
M:4 / WS:3 / BS:2 / S:3 / T:4 / W:1 / I:2 / A:1 / LD:6
weapons: hand to hand, boyz, stikkbombz & custom jobz
skills: combat, ferocity & muscle
special: oddboyz

Gretchin 15 teef ??? 0xp
M:4 / WS:2 / BS:3 / S:2 / T:2 / W:1 / I:3 / A:1 / LD:5
weapons: hand to hand & grots
skills: agility, shooting & stealth
special: many uses

Oddboyz:
No more than half (1/2) of all boyz can be upgraded to oddboyz for the listed cost.
upgraded orks generate 1 teef less as they keep it for themselves now that they are important.
- Speshul +25 teef 0-2
can use “speshul” weapons and have access to “shooting” skills
- Mek +50 teef 0-1
has the skill “inventor” and access to “techno” skills (re-roll medic)
- Dok +25 teef 0-1
has the “medic” skill
- Weird +50 teef 0-1
has one (1) major and one (1) minor weird power (major powers still need work)

MANY USES
gretchin can be used for many things any gretchin can be upgraded to one of the following.
an upgraded gretchin only generates d3 teef worth of food.(except the squig herder)
- Ammo Runt +15 teef
attach to an Ork that gang member may ignore the first ammo roll it needs to make
- Oiler Grot +50 teef
re-roll first failed ammo roll for all Orks in the gang. (does not stack)
- Grot Orderly +15 teef 0-1 (can only be taken if you have a mad dok)
attach to a mad dok, gives another re-roll on the serious injuries chart (for a different Ork)
- Squig Herder +25 teef
adds 2d6 teef worth of food after each battle (can only be used to feed gang)

Weapon & Equipment Lists
(prices still to be determined / rules in attachment)
Hand-to-Hand
- knife / 1st free - rest 5 teef
- club, maul & bludgeon / 10 teef

Grots
- grot blasta / 10 teef
- bigga blasta / 20 teef

Boyz
- choppa / 15 teef
- 'uge choppa / 20 teef
- slugga / 10 teef
- shoota / 20 teef
- flak armour / 15 teef

Nobz
- power claw / 75 teef
- custom blasta / 50 teef
- big horns-iron gob / 25 teef
- big banna / 40 teef
- 'eavy armour / 80 teef

Speshul
- big shoota / 80 teef
- rokkit launcha / 180 teef
- burna / 70 teef

Stikkbombz & Custom Jobz
- frag / 30 teef
- krak / 50 teef
- suppa / 80 teef
- "more dakka" +25 teef (can't be applied to pistols and the burna)
- "shootier" +10 teef
- "blastier" +10 teef
(the custom jobz can only be applied to Boyz and Nobz ranged weaponry)

still to do:
- Ork major wyrd powers (what would you guys like to see)
- price balancing (hence the feedback)
- rule balancing (hence the feedback)

so let me know what you think so far of my rules are they overpowered or underpowered just let me know and how you would go about improving them.
all your help is appreciated.

some of these rules are homemade but most are adeptations from Ross Flint's article in gang war magazine also alot of inspiration is taken from Codex Orks.
so Ross in case you read this thanks for the inspiration i hope you like what i did to your rules.
__________________

Gensuke626
10-11-2007, 19:44
My my...Ork Gangs seem to be all the rage these days...But let's skip right into the thick of it, shall we?

First off. Your Nob is too cheap. losing 1 BS, I and Ld while gaining 1T isn't worth a 20 cred drop in points. If anything he should cost as much if not more than your average Gang Leader.

Next, I see that your boyz are a strange amalgamation of 3rd and 2nd ed Orks. I suppose this works, but I decided on going 2nd ed when designing the Ork gang I put up a while ago, simply because the stats felt right. The idea that orks are bad at shooting came about as a result of 3rd ed and was balanced out with giving orks an extra attack and ws. In Necromunda we can't do both...so I'd say if you want to represent the more Close Combatty orks of 3rd/4th ed then you should up their WS by 1 to compensate.

This is all asuming that you increase the base cost of an Ork. For that statline, I'd almost say that they are only worth 50 creds, but in my oppinion, they really ought to cost more than 50. Just having the "WAAAGH!!" bonus makes them worth much more than 50. Even lowering the bonus to double I on Pinning checks, they really ought to be worth 55-60 creds a piece.

Grots are ok as is as far as I can tell.

I'm actually surprised you went with the Oddboyz idea. I considered it for a while but eventually scrapped the idea. It adds to the gang, that's for sure, but being able to simply buy the Invetor or Doctor skill seems a bit off to me. I personally would increase the cost of Dok to 50, and change Meks from having the inventor skill to counting as a Heavy for skills and equiment restictions...maybe reducing the cost to +25. I dunno what to say about the "Speshul" boy. It works since it gives access to special weapons and shooting skills...but there's still something that feels off. Maybe it's just the name...how does Loota sound to you? I know, it sounds a bit off to me too...

Oiler Grot is nice and expensive, but somehow it doesn't make sense to me. I normally think of Oiler Grots as those who keep vehicles and other such larger devices in good working order. But that's just me.

Here's another Idea that I came up with for my own orks...tell me if you like it...

"Stikkbomm: A stikkbomm is a crude but effective explosive on the end of a pole. It's easy to throw, but also functions well as a nice hefty club. An ork carrying Stikkbommz can use them as a bludgeon in Hand to Hand combat, but if both of the combatants roll a 6 on their attack dice then no blows are struck. Instead resolve a single hit at the strength of the Stikkbomm against everyone in base to base contact with the weilder. If the Ork survives roll a D6. On a roll of 6, that was his last Stikkbomm."

Because of this rule I added 5 to the cost of all stikkbomms, but I think it's a nice fun rule. Also, the D6 roll at the end is to represent the usual "To hit" roll, with a 6 representing the need for an ammo check and thus, the ork running out of stikkbomms.

Daredhnu
10-11-2007, 23:58
well to start i'd like to say i like the stikkbomm rule it's funny and it's orky.

Nob & Boyz pricing
their cost was something i wasn't sure about i know T4 is very good but i wasn't sure if it would warrant a price increase
(though i did completely forget about the waaagh rule)
so it does seem like they need a price increase lets start with 120 for the Nob and 60 for the Boyz.

Boy Stats
the stats are indeed an amalgamation of 2nd and 3rd edition. but this is my reasoning behind it.
in the 2nd edition orks were basically green humans with T4 & Ld6 and that didn't sit right with me, nor was the 3rd edition WS4 & A2 to my liking this would have made them too powerful compared to the other gangs in my opinion.
also i figured that since the gretchin fulfill the shooting role they don't need extra BS. and that's it basically.

Gretchin
now that i think about it though they should probably be small targets and thus cost 10 or 15 teef more.

Oiler Grots
are simply tasked with maintenance cleaning the weapons of the orks etc. this is what they do, if there had been vehicles around they would have to help with those too. ;)

Oddboyz
well maybe i should limit them further 0-1 meks, 0-1 mad doks, 0-1 Weirdboyz & 0-2 Speshuls ?
and i'm not too happy with the name for the Speshuls either but i couldn't come up with anything better, maybe i'll think of something later.

Gensuke626
11-11-2007, 00:12
I never thought of Grots being quite that small. To me they always sort of were big enough to be normal targets but are also definately smaller than an ork. If you want to make them small too, that's your choice and I'd increase the cost as you suggested.

Just to make sure I understand it, the Grot Oiler works like a watered down auto-repairer, right? As in, it only works once per game for each ork? I like that idea, but if I invested in Multiple Grots would the effect stack? Like if I got 2 oilers, could I re-roll the first 2 failed rolls per ork? If it's no then that's fine. I can see people talking multiple oilers just to make sure that one survives. If it stacks then I suggest you limit it to something like 0-2 per Mekboy.

Few more questions to help you refine your rules:
What are the Max stats of Orkz and Gretchin?

Can orks trade for equipment like normal gangs?

What can an Ork do with Captives?

What can a Gang do with Captive orkz?

-That's all I can think of at the moment.

And consider your Food Idea Looted. I'm going to try to implement it with the gang I'm developing. The difference is when my Grots roll a 1 to "Tend Squigs" they take a S3 hit becuase a squig attacked them...I think I'll keep that rule.

Daredhnu
11-11-2007, 01:27
gretchin are kinda on the edge whether their medium or small sized i guess.

and as far as stacking no i don't think i would allow that might make it too good.
none of the grot bonusses stack so to speak (oiler, orderly, ammo)

Caputured:skull:
when an ork or gretchin is captured they are killed or sold into slavery, captured orks and gretchin can't be traded back to their gang
(so you'll have to play a rescue game)
when a ganger is captured by orks he's pummeled to death and eaten unless he's rescued.
(don't know how much teef worth of food it is though)

Trading:eyebrows:
no the orks aren't let into any town the only way for them to get common equipment is by winning matches and scrounging or by capturing gangers and killing them.
(they can however recruit new orks and gretchin without problems for the time being)

Max Stats:confused:
ORK M:4 / WS:6 / BS:5 / S:4 / T:5 / W:3 / I:5 / A:3 / LD:8
GROT M:4 / WS:5 / BS:6 / S:3 / T:3 / W:2 / I:6 / A:3 / LD:7
(this is just the way i think they should be)

Major_Gilbear
11-11-2007, 13:41
Speshul boyz = Flash Gitz maybe?

Also, if the Mek gains access to the Techno Skills table, there is a very real chance that he could wind up with Specialist and Medic anyway. Seems to me therefore, that splashing out on Meks early on instead of the other Oddboyz gives you an (unfair) advantage in the long-term.

The Wierdboy just smells a bit too powerful, and should be restricted to 0-1 anyway as apparently they're not all that common.

Your trait "Waaagh!" should double Initiative for pinning instead of making them immune; I4 is quite good, but immunity is way too cheesy.

I'm sure there'd be a few more points as well, but I can't spot any others right now. Generally though, it seems reasonably well thought-out. :)

Gensuke626
11-11-2007, 20:12
I don't see a problem with a Mek who's a specialist as well. It just makes sense to me that a Mek can use a gun that he builds. However I think Meks ought to have to reroll the Medic skill. That means that the Dok is the only way to get the skill.

The problem may also arise that a normal boy learns medic, unless you use the advance table provided with Ratskins, where you're not allowed to roll on th Techno table on 2s and 12s.


I don't think that Flash Gitz is a good name for special weapon hauling boyz, fluffwise. For myself, Flash Gits have always been a designation rather than an actual Oddboy type. Still, I see no better name to represent what they are. Of course Calling a Special weapon Hauling Ork a Flash Git opens up new door ways for things like making "Kommandoz" who have access to the stealth table, "Lootaz" who can haul around 'Oomie 'Eavy Gunz, ect.

Now...on the other hand...you could split the specialists into 3 groups and have it be something like, say...
Burnaz - Can Take a Burna
Tankbustaz - Can take a Rokkit Launcha
Flash Git - Can Take a Big Shoota

Of course, if you did that, then I'd almost say make "Odd Boyz" sort of like heavies in a Normal Gang and start them with higher EXP and make them, say, 0-6. So you can take 2 burnaz, 2 Flash Gits, A Dok and a Mek, but you can't have Tankbustaz, or a Weirdboy.

You could also Add Runtherd to the gang...I'd throw it in with the Other Oddboyz, but make them do something like, give a bonus to the amount of food that Grots gather...or something...

I dunno, now I'm just brainstorming. my friends keep telling me that the best way to make a gang is to start with it being too good and too complicated, then bringing everything back down.

Tomothy
12-11-2007, 03:46
Strikes me as quite a lot of rules for a necromunda gang. Especially all the different troop types and weapons.

Gretchin are just too cheap, and as they unrestricted i'd be tempted to make a long ranged gang of them. 35 creds for BS 3 and autogun!

Not sure about the Nobz items either, a couple seem undercosted (particularly the iron gob and the pistol), a couple overcosted (power claw, big banna)

You don't really explain the rules for custom jobs either, what weapons can have them, do they add to value, etc.

Gensuke626
12-11-2007, 05:25
I forgot about the little blighters...sort of...I didn't really think about it so I basically thought "They're about half as good as the ones in my Design...so They cost half as much...makes sense."

anyhow...I'm unsure about the Power Klaw having the shears ability...I just think that the odd chance where you kill someone with it is too good. I've never been the type to allow "Auto Kill" weapons in any skirmish game...

Daredhnu
12-11-2007, 07:59
yeah you could make a ranged gang of gretchin but than you would only get teef from the Nob since the gretchin only provide for food. secondly they are so much worse than normal juves that they need a price drop. so i might need to increase the price for their weapons but not for them.

as for the items the Nob pistol is almost like a plasma pistol.
it has better damage, save modifier and doesn't need to recharge but it has a worse "to hit short" and ammo roll plus it's twice as expensive.
so i don't think it's undercosted.

the iron gob only helps with Ld for challenging purposes and that usually doesn't come up very often so the price doesn't have to be so much i think, what price would you suggest for it 35 teef perhaps?

the big banna is expensive because bottle tests come up quite often so that +1ld is more powerful but again what would be a better price for it? also 35 teef or 30 teef maybe?

the powerclaw was something i just priced i knew it was going to be overcosted but i wanted some feedback on it, what price do you think is better for it? 60 teef maybe?

but again i'd like to mention that this is a work in progress and i'd like all the feedback i can get.

p.s. the upgrades can be put on all ranged weapons but pistols and burna can't have more dakka
also grot weapons can't be upgraded and neither can the normal necromunda weapons.

p.p.s. some changes in the OP due to feedback.

Tomothy
12-11-2007, 09:53
yeah you could make a ranged gang of gretchin but than you would only get teef from the Nob since the gretchin only provide for food. secondly they are so much worse than normal juves that they need a price drop. so i might need to increase the price for their weapons but not for them.
At the moment i can still buy 2 gretchin with autoguns for every ork i buy and be coming out of it with a massive firebase. If i ignore all the special options i can make a very nasty gang.


as for the items the Nob pistol is almost like a plasma pistol.
it has better damage, save modifier and doesn't need to recharge but it has a worse "to hit short" and ammo roll plus it's twice as expensive.
so i don't think it's undercosted.
It has better range, better strength (as it doesn't need to recharge), it doesn't need to recharge. 50 creds is probably the right cost, but i still don't like the weapon. Can anyone else use nob weapons? Can he just give them out to his gang like leader weapons? What if he's captured and his eq taken?


the iron gob only helps with Ld for challenging purposes and that usually doesn't come up very often so the price doesn't have to be so much i think, what price would you suggest for it 35 teef perhaps?
Iron gob is currently 25, i think it could be dropped to 20 definitely, 15 probably.


the big banna is expensive because bottle tests come up quite often so that +1ld is more powerful but again what would be a better price for it? also 35 teef or 30 teef maybe?
30-35 is good, or make it 20 and not let him bottle voluntarily.


the powerclaw was something i just priced i knew it was going to be overcosted but i wanted some feedback on it, what price do you think is better for it? 60 teef maybe?
The shears ability isn't that great. It tends to attract more firepower than it does get a chance to kill people. You need to roll a 6 to wound, followed by another 6, after getting into hth in the first place. I would make it strength based, the hand can't be used for another weapon, if str +3 60 creds, if str +2 45-50.


p.s. the upgrades can be put on all ranged weapons but pistols and burna can't have more dakka
also grot weapons can't be upgraded and neither can the normal necromunda weapons.
So basic weapons can get sustained fire? That's generally considered a no-no.

I still don't think you need all the troop upgrades. You should have maybe 0-1 special gretchin and 0-1 special ork. Otherwise you're giving them way too much to choose from and way too much versatility.

Gensuke626
13-11-2007, 22:51
You could always GorkaMorka the More Dakka/Shootier upgrade

1-2 Shot Barrel - Reduce both Long and short ranges by 50%
3-4 Inaccurate - Reduce the to hit modifer on both short and long range by -1
5-6 Ammo Guzzler - Increase the weapon's ammo Roll by 1. If the Ammo roll goes over 6 then it becomes Auto. If it's at Auto then the weapon only holds enough ammo to be fired once per game.

Daredhnu
16-11-2007, 08:18
that's cool gensuke was thinking about making the ammo roll worse or something like that anyway.

also i came up with another variation of the Waaagh! rule i'll list all below so you guys can tell me which you like best.

1) Waaagh! : immune to pinning (BYB rule for orks)

2) Waaagh! : orks are immune to pinning if within 2" of another ork who isn't down or broken.

3) Waaagh! : orks double their I value for pinning purposes if there is another ork within 2" who isn't down, broken or pinned.

4) Waaagh! : orks get +1 I for pinning purposes for every ork within 4" who isn't down, broken or pinned.

(orks can always test to escape pinning with rule 2, 3 & 4)

ash_wednesday
16-11-2007, 15:16
As for pinning rules, use the Gorkamorka rules and the orks can't get pined. Makes more sense. Why would orks hide while be shot at?

Daredhnu
16-11-2007, 19:30
because it's a little overpowering in Necromunda and also because i don't want orks to cost 80 creds or so because of it

Major_Gilbear
17-11-2007, 09:20
#3 is best IMO.

Also, the rules for a lot of creatures in the BYB bestiary are a bit undercosted; I always got the impression that this was because such creatures were supposed to be used once a campaign was more established, and thus the gangs facing them were a bit harder too.