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View Full Version : How do vanilla marines rate now with all the changes going on?



Daigawn
11-11-2007, 14:01
I used to play vanilla marines when i first started playing 40k but stopped when i saw that no matter their traits BA, DA, SW all had by far better special rules than my army thus had a advantage over me. Now with all the new codicies sorta dumbing down the old chapters i want to know if anyone thinks that vanilla marines are now viable as a serious competitive army.

Surgency
11-11-2007, 14:03
there's a million posts on this very thing, and how BA/DA armies now suck, and all... All the armies are viable, you just have to be creative, and make them so, and get away from the generic las/plas min/max crap...

senorcardgage
11-11-2007, 14:38
Vanilla marines were always viable as a serious competitive army... Just because some not-so-often used armies got toned down a bit, doesn't mean that any other armies are now suddenly great.

sigur
11-11-2007, 14:50
I used to play vanilla marines when i first started playing 40k but stopped when i saw that no matter their traits BA, DA, SW all had by far better special rules than my army thus had a advantage over me. ...

Now here's a dedicated Space Marines player.:rolleyes:

Torga_DW
11-11-2007, 21:06
Yeah, vanilla marines are viable atm. I can't say what will happen to them when they get a rewrite. But right now you can field 2 assault cannons in a 5 man termie squad. 6-man tactical las/plas squads. All manner of nice wargear options: teleport homers, adamantine mantle, etc etc etc. Its just a matter of building a good list from the options available, just like any other codex.

EmMeTt
12-11-2007, 11:56
Ummm, what are vanilla marines? (sorry for my ignorance)

leonmallett
12-11-2007, 11:59
Non-traited, non-DA/BA/BT/SW marines.

Deadmanwade
12-11-2007, 12:36
Why a 6 man Las/Plas squad.
Why not just 5?

AbyssRaven
12-11-2007, 12:58
because in 5 , 1 death means its not scoring unit

AbyssRaven
12-11-2007, 13:00
Vanilla is actually really really viable atm. You can make soem nasty lists that BA/DA cant because of the new nerfing rules to gear and squad capabilities

Arhalien
12-11-2007, 13:00
Actually it's 3 deaths to make it non-scoring(below half strength), while a 6 man squad takes 4 kills to be non-scoring.

AbyssRaven
12-11-2007, 13:12
thats the one

And to kill 12 marines takes effort. since most las/plas 1500pt lists have 3 squads min

Captain Micha
12-11-2007, 13:34
Yep.

Da, Ba and Bt are better off now than they were. But vanilla marines are still better because they can do some serious broken things. (like the completely non codex 6 man teams) asscan speeders, asscan termies, boo librarians.

Da and Ba are better in my opinion because they are full of awesome. Actually follow the codex astartes, and that combat squads are much more versatile than 6 man las plas.

Polonius
12-11-2007, 13:52
Vanilla marines are, depending on how you rate the armies, either top-rate or nearly top rate. The big competitive build is a SAFH: termies with ACs, tornados, las/plas... some people like devs, I prefer predators.

What codex is strongest depends a lot on what sort of army you want to build:

SAFH: vanilla
Mechanized/shooting: DA
Drop Pods: Vanilla or BT
Bikes and termies: DA
All jump troops: BA
Mostly jump troops (but better at it): VAnilla
Scout heavy: Vanilla
Infantry Horde: BT
Hero heavy: Wolves

Some folks really like Combat Squads, as they add versatility. I'm of the mind that I'd rather have a unit be really good at one or two things than pretty decent at everything. las/plas might bite in hard in assault, but it's really good and cheap for anti-tank and anti-termie.

==Me==
12-11-2007, 13:54
Da and Ba are better in my opinion because they are full of awesome. Actually follow the codex astartes, and that combat squads are much more versatile than 6 man las plas.

Quoted
For
Truth

Grazzy
12-11-2007, 17:56
Vanilla are defintely competative. Alongside the classic Ed Maule setup (las/plas, devestators, and LST) there is also drop pod lists that (gasp!) dont have two special weapons in tactical squads.

Democratus
12-11-2007, 18:06
(like the completely non codex 6 man teams)

How is it that a 6-man team is "non codex" when you can build one using the codex? Seems that makes it the very difinition of a codex squad. I've read a lot of the novels and they don't show that marines run strictly 5 or 10 man teams.

Mr Spock
12-11-2007, 18:06
Right now, Vanilla Marines are the best in terms of a competitive list and they are extremely versatile with the type of list you can bring out of one codex. DA and BA may follow the fluff more, but are more constrained with unit options and the variety of lists.

BTW,

Some folks really like Combat Squads, as they add versatility. I'm of the mind that I'd rather have a unit be really good at one or two things than pretty decent at everything. las/plas might bite in hard in assault, but it's really good and cheap for anti-tank and anti-termie.

Quoted for truth, that is my exact feeling on units. Why pay the extra points to have them decent at everything when I just want them to be really good at one or two things?

Rodman49
12-11-2007, 18:06
Vanilla marines have significant advantages:

6 man squads (as stated above)
2 Assault Cannons in 5 Termies
Can customize Squads (like say giving Tank Hunters to Devs)

Only real disadvantage is not having Combat Squads but I believe 6 man squads make up for this for the most part.

ServanoTomasin
12-11-2007, 18:49
I still play Vanilla marines, my small Imperial Fists army I use as vanilla marines(mainly because I find the traits they get are completely useless).

And they work. Very well. And I don't want GW to change them at all. Makeing traits for fluffy and "real", I don't mind because the IH traits could be better. But vanilla marines at the moment work very well and I wouldn't mind having combat squads.

I don't do the over powering bit either, mainly because I don't have some of those units. I like 6-8 man squads because I can field more 7 man squads than 10 man, and 5 men isn't enough men, especially if you are facing a heavy assault army. As for two assault cannons in a termie squad, I don't because 1) I don't use many termies in my IFs and 2) the box set only comes with 1 AC. And as for las/plas, I don't. I just use a simple lascannon or a simple melta gun and s.t. with power weapons - no exploding men for me.

With the option for the armoury, its alot better than the DA/BA, and the same as BTs. Mainly because 1)I can understand it better 2)it gives more options 3)Not everyone is a noob, and not everyone wants a standard, no equipment army. Sorry about that, but my old DA army has been completly nerfed in the armoury section.

Plus, I can have techmarines in combat patrols with a Vanilla army/codex because they have 3+ saves, not 2+ saves like the BA/DA. Thats another thing, I wish for techmarine to stay the same in the dex.

Anyway, vanilla, is good. Its not all boring, and you can win. I have, and quite well against massivly overpowered armies. I suppose it all depends on what players want. I my self am an obbsessive techmarine fan (incase you couldn't tell...) so vanilla and traits are good for me. With the serious bore fest that is the land of DA and BA, vanilla are becoming a very good army.

And for those of you who don't want to lose certain things in this new dex re-write....simple. Use the BT codex and just say its a sucessor.....

Vanilla is good. For now....

BrainFireBob
12-11-2007, 19:57
3rd Ed player?

Yeah, the "new" Codex:SM became debatably the most powerful in 4th.

Then Eldar and Chaos both were re-done.

Unlike in 3rd, where vanilla marines were the poorer cousins of their variants (I well recall those days), in 4th it's currently the other way around- not as extreme, but still the other way.