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Stingray_tm
12-11-2007, 10:55
My regular opponent at 1000 points is a Dark Elf player. He has access to these kind of units:

- crossbowmen (usually 10 of them)
- repeater bolt thrower
- witch elves (usually 12-15)
- executioner (new unit. He has more than 20, but i don't think he will use that many ;) )
- corsairs (usually 15)
- spearelves (usually 15)
- cold one charriot
- dark riders (or whatever this light cavalry is called)

After some weeks of painting i have access to these troops
- 2*25 clanrats
- 2*20 slaves
- 1 rattling
- 1 warpfire thrower
- 20 plague monks (new unit, never used it before)
- 20 stormvermin
- 3 swarms (new unit, never used it before)
- 2*3 tunnelers

I find myself using only the old "shoot them up" tactic with rattlings and Warlocks (which becomes boring), since i can't think of anything else to stop his high WS and fast units from killing my rats.

The things i am most affraid of: charriot, riders, magic. (This template thing centered over a 5*5 unit is devastating)

Any suggestions?

DeathlessDraich
12-11-2007, 13:11
You have other options than Skryre against DE.

1) Include Censer Bearers if you use Plague Monks
2) 2 or 3 units of 5 tunnellers will destroy all his Bolt throwers and Xbows. If they do not emerge early, you're in a for a real fight.
3) Use Night Runners and/or Slaves to bait the Dark riders.
4) You'll have more units than he does which leads to a greater likelihood of a flank charge.
5) Direct all shooting and magic at the Witch elves who will die easily and then focus shooting and magic on the executioners to reduce their numbers. A reduced WElves or Executioner unit will not stand up to a flank charge.
6) General should be a Warlord for good Ld.

forgottenlor
12-11-2007, 15:57
Hmm. So I'll split my advise into 2 categories, namely how I beat dark elves, and How I would do it with what you have.
Basically I find outnumbering dark elves 3 or 4 to 1 the best way to go. You need more clan rats and slaves though to make this work. Even a unit of giant rats can be helpful. What you have as far of shooting should always fire into whatever elite units he has, such as witch elves. The rest you can beat by hitting them on more than one front. I personally think you also need a box of shadowrunners, as these guys with there high move and cheap cost can totally surround his units.
So with what you have ... I would put at a battle standard bearer in the storm rats and give him the war banner and the storm rats the swarm banner. Now this unit has an awsome Cr. Use your swarm be terrain. Move through it and try to reach his archers, or bolt throwers. You might have a chance against dakr riders on in the flank against spearmen. Your monks are actually pretty good against dark elves if they can attack first. Make sure to use the in conjuction with your slaves (send your slaves out in front of the monk and let them get charged an then attack with your monks). I would personally run 2 engineers and a battle standard bearer. if you get a lightning spell of you should toast a number of expensive modells. Dark elves generally can't afford such losses.

Stingray_tm
12-11-2007, 16:29
I could get a couple of rat ogres (3 to be specific). I know, they are not the best unit in the army book. But what are there chances against DE?

brambleten
12-11-2007, 18:02
I could get a couple of rat ogres (3 to be specific). I know, they are not the best unit in the army book. But what are there chances against DE?

they're bound to squash some of the T3 traitors, if they get to hit, and with DE being Str 3 as well, thats a reasonable opertunity

Axis
13-11-2007, 08:50
I could get a couple of rat ogres (3 to be specific). I know, they are not the best unit in the army book. But what are there chances against DE?

I would say not high. Rat ogres tend to suck against anything with missile troops. Its rather easy to force panic tests on them.

Stingray_tm
13-11-2007, 12:10
How about this army concept for 1000 points. (Didn't calculate the point costs, but it should give a general feeling of what i plan).

1 Chieftain (as cheap as possible)
1 Warlock (no upgrades, only for banning purposes. scroll caddy)
2*25 clanrats (i modelled spears on one unit, but my opponent has no problem with it being handweapons. so: hw, shields, full command)
19 storm vermin (full command. with chieftain in the back. stormbanner!)
warp fire thrower
2*20 slaves (musician)
3 rat ogres
2 units of 5 night runners

Plan: Neutralize his shooting in the first couple of turns with the stormbanner. Defend against his magic. Then overwhelm him with greater numbers, night runners and rat ogres as flankers.

DeathlessDraich
13-11-2007, 13:35
1) You will find that Rat Ogres are ineffective but try them and find out for yourself.

2) The upgrades are necessary and cheap enough for the Warlock. At 1000 pts, 1 scroll is more than enough.

3) Storm Vermin looks good on paper but there are better and cheaper options.

4) The list lacks 'bite' - Censer bearers and Tunnellers are needed.

FurryMiguell
13-11-2007, 15:59
Ok... I'm a Skaven player, and I just started colecting DE, so I read both armybooks and here's my point of wiew:

Slaves: these lowlife ratmen are my favouritte unit in the skaven army. They are expendable, which is a huge advantage in your low-LD army. And i see you have the warpfire thrower? If so, my advice is to throw a unit of slaves against the witch elves if they ever get near your ranks(please, try blowing them appart with a ratling gun first!). When they are locked in combat, use your warpfire thrower to fry the bastards!!

Clanrats: I usually find units of 30 clanrats the best. They tend to outnumber most elf units, and some serious killing must be done for them to loose their rank bonus(which is the most important rule in the skaven army. remember, you get +1 LD for every rank till a maximum bonus of 3:D). If you have the two units of 25 clanrats somewhat close together, and deploy the swarms in the middle to flankattack any chargers, then victory should be yours(in the combat resolution phrase that is).

Tunnelers: put the two units of three together to make one unit of six. Then they'll be able to flank units effectivly, and will destroy warmachine crew much easier and faster.

Ratling gun: make sure you use it to blow apart his dark riders(or whatever;)). They are very nasty once they reach your flanks, but an average round of fire from the ratling gun should bring them down. I find rolling the dice twice(for determining number of shots) good, since that would be and average of 7 shots, which is good for taking down smal units. When my result is five of below, I'll roll a third dice. I'd rather take the risk of my ratling gun blowing up, than seeing my flank getting rolled up...

Plauge monks: I just love this unit. Against missile armies I find shielding them with slaves a good tactic(its eigther them, or the plauge monks...). It you can get them to charge the enemy archerlines!!! With their three attacks (frenzy, additional hand weapon), they are some mean rats. And if the slaves should die, the toughness of four is a lifesaver.

I never use stormvermin in my battles, so I got nothing to say about it. I i were you, I'd get another ratling gun and ten more clan rats.

And hey, would you mind trying to throw them rat ogres at his executioners and tell me how things came out? Good luck in your next game, and I hope you can read this, cause I'm not very good at english and it took for ever to write this down!

Cheers:D

Dwarf Runelord 45
12-12-2007, 04:12
If you get rat ogres use (what is it called?)brew a lucky row and you can get frenzy and hatred. Smash the elves to the ground