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Kaleb79
12-11-2007, 20:34
Ok here's my first list with the new Army Book - first battles are going to be against Brets or DE. Previous armies have been mainly based on Magic and Cavalry.

Feedback welcome!

Characters:

Mage 1 - 185
lvl 2, DS, Seer

Mage 2 - 185
lvl 2, Annulian Crystal, Talisman of Protection

Noble - 131 (start with Seaguard or Archers)
Hvy Armour, Shield, Bow of the Reaver

BSB - 174 (start with White Lions)
Hvy Armour, Sword of Might, Talisman of Protection, Blessed Tome

18 Seaguard - 279
Shields, FC, War Banner

10 Archers - 115
Musician

7 Silver Helms - 201
Shields, FC

12 Swordmasters - 255
FC, Armour of Caledor, War Banner

12 White Lions - 285
FC, Skeinsliver, Banner of Sorcery

2 RBTs - 200

2 Mages are mainly for defensive magic - most likely to take High Magic to get two chances at Shield of Saphery and Courage of Aenerion or Drain Magic if faced with nasty enemy magic. CoA can be used on Silver Helms to effectively act as a huge doorstop 7 cavalry wide if want to block a large number of units, espcially if I also cast SoS on them

Sea Guard in a big block marching forward will be able to decimate archers or siege engines on hills as all ranks will be able to fire. If I can outshoot opponents I can always leave them back in 2 ranks on a hill and leave my archers in a single ranks if there isn't another hill. 2RBTs will also help in a shooting battle.

Main feature are my elite infantry 24 SMs and WLs should do a lot of killing damage and the BSB + the defensive Magic should help them stick around longer to do more killing.

the war banners are also there to compensate for most likely being outnumbered in every combat!

Firestorm Falcon
12-11-2007, 21:02
I'm sorry but I just don't see the sea guard or archers as decent troops, for about the same price you could get 2 units of 20 spearelves which are decent little troops. Although all 3 are useful against dark elves. Brets will simply smash them aside s3 hits all bouncing off their armour.

Other things the blessed tome no longer exists and the BSB would do better with a great weapon rather than the SoM. Do you intend to do some crazy challenges with the swordmaster's bladelord, if not why does he have the armour of caeldor an if so why not try the talisman of loec for the ultimate suicidal champion.

I like the little elite units by the way it's something I'm going to be using.

Hope that's helpful

Good luck against the dark Kin and the arrogant knights fellow elf.

Kaleb79
12-11-2007, 21:18
one problem I get facing Brets is my usual opponent takes loads of peasant bowmen that seem to be a real pain at whittling down my lovely elves. part of the reason I fancied having some more bows myself, and bows aren't too bad against other elves :D

I've never tried Seaguard before and normally go with Spears, so I'll probably go back to what you're suggested

and about blessed tome - duh - how did I miss that :confused:

think I should go for better armour on him or take a magic standard? I will be taking the GW as well - although I don't like taking double handed weapons with a BSB... doesn't seem right

Bladelord has AoC to keep him alive, don't want combat hits allocated against him if there are still guys to fight back or a character in front of him. plus I'm hoping to case SoS on the unit so he'll also have a 5+ ward save

Wreckage
12-11-2007, 21:54
You took two War Banners and two Talismans of Protection...

2thesword
13-11-2007, 04:10
having played a couple of games with a fairly similar list

noble - take a GW (not worth taking a magic weapon, ASF, WS 6, St 6 is too good!), and a shield.
I also placed the noble with the seaguard and shot at other archers & artillery on hills.... 18 shots + 3 Reaver bow shots is enough to completely take out an artillery crew per turn if you roll average... Also take a shield on the noble in case you wish to use the HW & Shield bonus (for a 4+ save)

likewise for BSB (as kalen said) - take a GW and maybe some magical protection. You could also mount the bsb on a steed.... you lose 1 point of ST (St 5 vs St 6 assuming a great weapoon) but gain +2 Armour.

Ecclesiastes
13-11-2007, 08:44
Characters:

Mage 1 - 185
lvl 2, DS, Seer

Mage 2 - 185
lvl 2, Annulian Crystal, Talisman of Protection


Hmm, talisman of protection seems as a waste of points to me, a 6+ ward wont save you anyday if you get in a pos. to get hit.



Noble - 131 (start with Seaguard or Archers)
Hvy Armour, Shield, Bow of the Reaver

BSB - 174 (start with White Lions)
Hvy Armour, Sword of Might, Talisman of Protection, Blessed Tome


As the other guy said, drop the SoM and give your hero's some Great weapons, again the talisman is a waste, better try to get SoS on them. Blessed tome doenst exist anymore. Maybe try to give them some more protection with the magic helm, gauntlets or mask. Guardian phoenix in case you fear that you won't get any spells through.



18 Seaguard - 279
Shields, FC, War Banner

10 Archers - 115
Musician

7 Silver Helms - 201
Shields, FC

12 Swordmasters - 255
FC, Armour of Caledor, War Banner

12 White Lions - 285
FC, Skeinsliver, Banner of Sorcery

2 RBTs - 200


I never used Sea guard, so I cant give you a well supported opinion on them, but you 'could' get a much bigger unit of spears instead, 19 (if you have a char with the unit) of them is minimal if you want to get your static CR.

50 pts of magic items on t3 1w champions seems like free points to your enemy. Everyone who played against High elves, even in last edition, knows that the champions are the first to target. AoC is nice to take some hits, but your hero is much more valuable, so use it on him. A +1 to go first wont do anything against brets btw, you go first anyway.

7 Silver helms? Not enough to gain a rank, and to many to ride in a single line, maybe reduce them to 6 or 5 and remove the command, use them as flankers (they do pretty nice in that role, since you can beat any Fast Cav or flyers coming up your flank)

2 warbanners isn't allowed...

By doing all the above you free up a lot of points to flesh out your units a bit, or to get some more support in.

Good luck

Stella Cadente
13-11-2007, 09:19
You took two War Banners and two Talismans of Protection...


2 warbanners isn't allowed...

these items are common magic items, now although I don't have the newer main fantasy rulebook yet, common magic items never used to have restrictions

Ecclesiastes
13-11-2007, 09:40
I think they do have restrictions, although I don't have my rulebook here (me being at work, I'll check when I get home). Otherwise the description for Dispel scrolls and Powerstones wouldn't so explicitly state that you can take more than 1 of those in your army. If you would be able to take more of all those items, the description on the DS and PS would be redundant.

(Edit: remembering now that the explanation in DS and PS refers to 1 char. carrying multiple ones...hmmm, now I'm definately going to check when I get home)

Kaleb79
13-11-2007, 11:12
thanks for all the feedback people!

I'll make some modifications to list later and post it up here. a couple of quick comments first:

the warbanner and Talisman of Protection are common items so I'm pretty sure you can have more than one of them.

I like the ToP because for 10 points it gives you a 1/6 chance of saving a wound. not bad for a 180pt character. if it's for a 60-100 point character it's very little point. Only really took it for point filler but I think I'll drop seeing as I'll be trying to cast Shield of Saphery instead.

Regarding the BSB - I know I can take shields and GW but I just have a funny think with BSBs that they are meant to be holding the standard in one hand. therefore can't use a GW... but I guess I may just skip that and go for the powergaming option


As the other guy said, drop the SoM and give your hero's some Great weapons, again the talisman is a waste, better try to get SoS on them. Blessed tome doenst exist anymore. Maybe try to give them some more protection with the magic helm, gauntlets or mask. Guardian phoenix in case you fear that you won't get any spells through..

I'm thinking of giving the BSB the Radiant Gem of Hoeth to have another go at low level High Magic spells


50 pts of magic items on t3 1w champions seems like free points to your enemy. Everyone who played against High elves, even in last edition, knows that the champions are the first to target. AoC is nice to take some hits, but your hero is much more valuable, so use it on him. A +1 to go first wont do anything against brets btw, you go first anyway.

it's 25 pts on the champ and 25 on the standard bearer :) - besides I think they'll be going for my bladelord anyway - 3 WS6 S5 attacks! A Noble with GW has 3 WS6 S6 attacks so isn't much better offensively. I want to keep that guy alive!

Ecclesiastes
13-11-2007, 11:48
it's 25 pts on the champ and 25 on the standard bearer :) - besides I think they'll be going for my bladelord anyway - 3 WS6 S5 attacks! A Noble with GW has 3 WS6 S6 attacks so isn't much better offensively. I want to keep that guy alive!

I meant 25 pts on the SM champ and 25 pts on the WL champ :), I see your point on the SM champ, but I would still remove the item from the WL

Kaleb79
13-11-2007, 12:21
think I probably will - although I'm not too bothered where that 25 pts go. against Brets, yes it won't make any difference about +1 to start first but against other armies it really can be useful.

Getting the chance to get 5+ Wards saves on my key units before they get shot at could be vital. not to mention the chance to shoot with my 2 RBTs and get my infantry line further forward if I am going to be chasing my foe...

that 25pts increases my chances of doing all of that so I think it's a bargain :rolleyes:

Wreckage
13-11-2007, 12:26
the warbanner and Talisman of Protection are common items so I'm pretty sure you can have more than one of them.

Nope, still one per army like any other magic item. (Except scrolls/stones)

Chiungalla
13-11-2007, 12:48
these items are common magic items, now although I don't have the newer main fantasy rulebook yet, common magic items never used to have restrictions

That is wrong for the old edition as it is for the new edition.

The only common magic items you can use more then once in your army list are dispel scrolls and energy stones.

Stella Cadente
13-11-2007, 14:22
ahh scrolls and stones, well it has been 5 years since I last played, oh well

Kellindel
13-11-2007, 15:20
And command for archers is pretty much a point sink. They should never get into HtH and if they do the Hawkeye doesn't give an extra attack anyway.

Sea Guard are nice when you get them in a good spot. On elevated levels they have shoot to ranks and take a charge and get their three ranks of attacks in before the enemy attacks. So Stand and shoot 2 ranks of bows from an elevated position and then take the charge for 3 ranks of spear attacks.

But the other people do have a point. Spearmen are rather nice now. And if you're taking two RBT's then taking Archers might not be good. Their nice for attacking flanks and harrassing units with bow attacks but 10 archers really lack any punch. Same with the Seaguard Bow attacks.

In some cases you should consider PG for the Ward Save, and the Fear factor. I understand the when it comes to terrain, White Lions are unmatched for hitting power. But their save against Ranged attacks is only that ... a save against ranged attacks. A PG's 4+ WS is against everything all the time.

Kaleb79
13-11-2007, 15:51
hmm, lots to think about there. will post new list tonight

main reason I took archers is just to fill the core selection so I can spend more points on elite infantry

if I take Spears I really need two units of at least 15 to get the most value out of them... is there any point in me taking units of 10?!

Firestorm Falcon
13-11-2007, 16:32
You could go all MSU but I don't really know how that works so I'll leave the explaining to others.

Oh and if you have pesent bowman problems that's what silver helms are for:).

Kaleb79
13-11-2007, 21:25
Ok, I've made some tweaks with the main aims of
1) correcting mistakes
2) getting a prince so I can have Ld 10 (I plan on keeping army close together)
3) getting in Phoenix Guard (I'd love to try having all 3 Elite Infantry types in to see how they perform together) with a view to them mainly being a holding unit for SMs and WLs to do the killing

[QUOTE=Kaleb79;2086411]Ok here's my first list with the new Army Book - first battles are going to be against Brets or DE. Previous armies have been mainly based on Magic and Cavalry.

Feedback welcome!

Characters:

Mage 1 - 185
lvl 2, DS, Seer

Mage 2 - 175
lvl 2, Annulian Crystal
Drop ToP - should have SoS anyway

Prince - 247 (start with Spearmen or PG)
Gt Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Bow of the Seafarer

BSB - 169 (start with White Lions)
Gt Weapon, Dragon Armour, Radiant Gem of Hoeth

19 Spearmen - 196
FC
would have liked to have kept Seaguard but can't afford them

10 Archers - 115
Musician

5 Silver Helms - 123
Shields, Musician
dropped 2, champion and SB - just going to be used for taking out light cav and artillery

12 Swordmasters - 255
FC, Helm of Fortune, War Banner
given AoC to Prince, kept unit size at 12 so I can have 6 in front for maximum killage + war banner. when these guys go in I want to make sure the enemy is broken!

10 White Lions - 205
FC, Skeinsliver
dropped down two and move banner of sorcery to PG, seems more appropriate and they are less likely to die. don't want character with WLs anyway as they can't move through woods

10 Phoenix Guard - 230
FC, Banner of Sorcery

1 RBTs - 100 (dropped one RBT but I have Bow of Seafarer to compensate)

TOTAL = 2000 pts

Not sure if it's really worth having PG but I like the idea. If I don't take them I'll go back to having Seaguard and beef up the SMs and WLs

CHOOBER SNIPES
13-11-2007, 22:19
It looks solid and i also love the idea of having a little beast bladelord in a random unit, nice surprise when u challenge their hero and kill him:
HE player: "ok so thats 3 attacks, what's ur WS? 5? ok, hitting on 3's....yes, and T4? that's 2 wounds? You only have hvy armor? ouch, that's gotta hurt..."
that happened once, dont know why his hero had so little armor tho...
Anyway, id personally not take all of them, unless for fluff or in the following format:
Take Sm's as u hav them, then hav PG upped to a block lik 15-20, cus then theyre really solid and hard to move, and cut WL's to 5. PG really dont hav too much killing power with only 1 attack, but they hold an enemy in place really well, so some SM's or WL's can charge. Really, WL's just kill as much as possible, and the only one's that matter are the one's in contact, cus res against them doesnt matter theyre stubborn. SM's just kill so much they generate a lot of res from that, and PG dont die so its res denial to enemy, plus res from a block (ie. ranks, outnumber (nice cus fear) and banner). if you use these together, such as holding a charge with PG, then flanking with SM's or WL's u can devastate enemy blocks. problem is enemy cav and shooting. so, cav u counter cav with DP's and SH's, and shooting such as peasants u can actually screen with that cav, giv em the 5+ ward spell and uve got BS3 S3 shots bouncing off the 2+ armor 5+ ward cav amidst the laughter of amused elves. gunpowder/nonbows i think mayb screen with something or tie up with sacrificial shadow warriors. actually against non dwarfs, the shadow warriors could fare well against shooting units. If u do drop one of the elites, then u could add a block of spears and drop archers and RBT for DP's. this would be good b/c against the Brets the DP's would own the peasants pretty hard, also, the spears could take all equivalent DE units straight on, and even some of the elites. And of course the spears are a good general unit. Also put seven SM's in front mayb for MAXIMUM TO THE MAX KILLINESS (ahem, excuse me) as long as u dont take a casualty u still hav a rank of 5 in the back. Anyway solid list as it is good luck and i love the elitiness of ur infantry.