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deathskullork
13-11-2007, 22:32
I was just thinking today that when a marine gets hiss arm blown off and then replaced with a bionic version, that bionic version is, as far as I can make out just as good as his origional. This made me think, would it be possible for the admech to make a sort of super soldier from bionic parts. Obviously they wouldent have the other benefits marines have but they would still be pretty fearsome soldiers.

Argastes
13-11-2007, 22:36
I was just thinking today that when a marine gets hiss arm blown off and then replaced with a bionic version, that bionic version is, as far as I can make out just as good as his origional. This made me think, would it be possible for the admech to make a sort of super soldier from bionic parts. Obviously they wouldent have the other benefits marines have but they would still be pretty fearsome soldiers.

As a matter of fact, the AdMech do create bionically enhanced soldiers. They're called the Legio Cybernetica and make up a part of the AdMech's military establishment, alongside the Legio Titanica, the Skitaari, and so forth.

BrotherAdso
13-11-2007, 22:39
And to supplement Argastes' reply, yes, they are plenty 'ard. They do suffer some disadvantages, though, the closer they get to servitor-dom. And I wouldn't fancy being a Cybernetica soldier when a Haywire grenade went off nearby....

-Adso

malika
13-11-2007, 22:39
What do you think the Adeptus Mechanicus is doing it themselves by replacing their bodies with bionics? However for them it has a whole religious vibe to it, so replacing a bodypart with a bionical one becomes this whole spiritual thing, not just a random thing like a boobjob or whatever.

Kage2020
13-11-2007, 23:42
And, much like an army and the speed of the march, the cyborg is going to only be as strong as their weakest component (read: flesh, in general). Kinda. ;)

Kage

Lord Cook
14-11-2007, 00:13
All Imperial forces make extensive use of cybernetics, even the guard. It isn't more widespread for the simple reason that flesh is cheap and expendable. Cybernetics require great knowledge and time from trained professionals.

Voleron
14-11-2007, 00:54
Plus, The whole "Iron Men" mess is what happens when they try to make 100% robotic things. Soulless, semisentient machines = bad.

legio mortis
14-11-2007, 01:07
As a matter of fact, the AdMech do create bionically enhanced soldiers. They're called the Legio Cybernetica and make up a part of the AdMech's military establishment, alongside the Legio Titanica, the Skitaari, and so forth.
No, the Legio Cybernetica are tried and true robots. The Ad Mech's bionically enhanced soldiers are the Praetorians, and to a lesser extent, the Skitarii themselves.

BrotherAdso
14-11-2007, 01:17
<nod> The Legio Cybernetica were actually fieldable back in Rogue Trader, they were autonomous 'drone' robots with a specific mission, armament, etc. Like wind-up dreadnaughts.

They've rehashed them from the originals on the Age Of Heresy website at Bell of Lost Souls.

Adso

Noserenda
14-11-2007, 02:47
Legio Cybernetica Robots are really cyborgs, like servitors with only a vat grown brain instead of a cpu, instead of a human with bits added.

Praetorian battle servitors (In their many and varied forms) are the super cyborg soldiers. :chrome:

The Warmaster
14-11-2007, 02:51
Legio Cybernetica Robots are really cyborgs, like servitors with only a vat grown brain instead of a cpu, instead of a human with bits added.

Praetorian battle servitors (In their many and varied forms) are the super cyborg soldiers. :chrome:

From what I can gather, the Legio Cybernetica robots, like many other things that the background of the 41st Millennium can no longer accomodate (like jetbikes), are now considered a pre-Heresy-only thing.

- N.

BrotherAdso
14-11-2007, 02:56
Ah, and how we mourn their loss. Ne'er shall we see you again, Beastman Assault Squads.

With virus grenades.

(sadistic cackle)

Back on topic, would anyone find a WD article or something expanding the types and funtions of combat servitors interesting, if we can't have full on robots anymore?

-Adso

Champsguy
14-11-2007, 04:22
What do you think the Adeptus Mechanicus is doing it themselves by replacing their bodies with bionics? However for them it has a whole religious vibe to it, so replacing a bodypart with a bionical one becomes this whole spiritual thing, not just a random thing like a boobjob or whatever.

Hey!!! For some of us, boobjobs ARE a spiritual thing. ;)

But you wouldn't really want to fully cyber-up a marine. It's wasting your time. Why bother putting all the good super-enhanced flesh there, if you're just going to chop it off and replace it with steel?

Biomass Denial
14-11-2007, 04:33
I thought of the Skitaari as being as close to mechanical as they could make themselves?

kikkoman
14-11-2007, 06:02
for space marines though, wouldn't most bionics be weaker than their flesh?

Like the Iron Hands, I think those are the cybernetics loving space marines

They're replacing all of their super-duper space marine organs with bionics, why?

Brother Siccarius
14-11-2007, 07:13
for space marines though, wouldn't most bionics be weaker than their flesh?

Like the Iron Hands, I think those are the cybernetics loving space marines

They're replacing all of their super-duper space marine organs with bionics, why?

Weakness of Flesh, quite the opposite of the Emperor's Children who were about improving their flesh (funny how that one worked out). Also, think about it this way:

A normal space marine is generally immune to poisons because of special implants, these implants are complicated and the knowledge of their actual creation was lost (They can make more of the same, but they can't improve it). Wouldn't it be better to have a machine that could filter out the poisons and possibly store it for an offensive action similar to the marine ability to spit poison.
A normal space marine has a third lung to remove dangerous chemicals from the air they breath and take over should another lung give out. Wouldn't it be easier to take a machine that was not only armored against penetration but also had the capacity of all three lungs while simultaneously filtering oxygen out of water to allow you to breath under water should you need to? Not to mention that the machine itself would naturally be resistant to many compounds that would destroy normal flesh.
Think of arms made of steel and wire that could surpass even a Space Marine's strength easily.
Think eyes that can not only see well in the darkness but that could also see into the infra-red, detect motion, record and store what you see, or give the readouts your helmet would.
Reflexes enhanced beyond that of any other Marine through use of superconductive materials to carry nerve impulses.
Hands with tool attachments.
Body compartments for storage.
Recoil compensaters built-in on your arm and the ability to link directly to your weapon through a smart-link


Think of machines so efficient they can even improve upon the marine's physiology.

RexTalon
14-11-2007, 07:58
And can all of these cybernetic parts "heal" themselves... No, so flesh is better. :P


For what it's worth, the Legio Cybernetica can no longer create autonomous bodies capable of thinking for themselves. To do so is heresy against the Omnissiah. Only a human should think for itself, and only the human brain will remain unchanged when the techpriests start modifying their flesh.

@Biomass - No, the skitarri are just IG with behavior modifications and a couple bionics. The Techpriests and higher have more bionics than you can shake a stick at.

Brother Siccarius
14-11-2007, 08:02
And can all of these cybernetic parts "heal" themselves... No, so flesh is better. :P

You realize how much time it takes for that fleshy bit to actually fully heal itself even for a marine? In that time you could have replaced or fixed it for what it's worth. Besides, being that it's a mechanical device it also allows you to add an extra layer of metal between you and what ever is coming for you.

Until they bring rust monsters into 40k, I doubt they'll have too much to worry about.

Biomass Denial
14-11-2007, 08:32
Hmm just though what about ork bionics and there ease of adapting to them as well as transplants? This have to do with the fungus thing?

The Warmaster
14-11-2007, 09:42
Hmm just though what about ork bionics and there ease of adapting to them as well as transplants? This have to do with the fungus thing?

Well, these work because the Orks think they will work - it's as simple as that. Likely, if a human had Ork bioniks grafted on in place of something they were missing, they'd either just splutter and stop functioning, or explode.

- N.

pookie
14-11-2007, 09:45
well are bionics better than a Standard marine's body...?

Considering they give a Marine a 6+ Inv save id say so. the weaknesss comes from where the Bionic would be attached to the Human Part, this would be the weak link.

Biomass Denial
14-11-2007, 09:49
Any medical reason for an ork adapting to graft transplants and bionics or is it all the ork thinks so it does thing? or is it a case of GW not expanding cause they aint marines.

The Warmaster
14-11-2007, 09:51
Any medical reason for an ork adapting to graft transplants and bionics or is it all the ork thinks so it does thing? or is it a case of GW not expanding cause they aint marines.

It's the kind of "inbuilt genetic memory" thing that all Orks have. I don't know too well, I've never really got "into" 40K Orks that much.

- N.

Ikkaan
14-11-2007, 10:31
Often neglected: Space Marines believe in the emperors work as a long planned and thoughtful invention. Messing with the emperors invention is blasphemy, so marines are not eager to replace their holy flesh with something which is just a replacement. A marines body is a temple.

The Iron Hands chapter replaces its body because they have a unique dogma. Their primarch was special and had reasons to propagate augmetic replacements.

And: Augmetics are rare. The Admech has a contingent for themselves and they donīt sell this stuff to anyone. Its difficult to produce and after all it is technology, not flesh. A unaugmeted space marine falling from a great height will have bruises and other injuries, but his muscles and bones will still function so he can pull himself together and continue fighting. A iron hand falling may experience malfunctions if the equipment gets damaged. No matter how high grade the hardware is. The iron hands have less problems with that because the support will fix it quickly.

Plus, they are expensive, i have no idea what it would cost to equip ALL space marine chapters with full/partial body replacements.

Not to talk about the thing with EM Jammers and Haywire grenades.

MrBigMr
14-11-2007, 14:08
I always understood it that things like bionic arms are, while highly sophisticated, without feel. Like one could feel hot much pressure is applied to an item, so they wouldn't crack eggs with their new hands, but they couldn't feel like normal hands do.

Isn't that where Eldar bionics come in, crafted from psychoplastics onto the missing limb and creating a thing that works and feels more or less like the original one?

Keichi246
14-11-2007, 15:15
Well, these work because the Orks think they will work - it's as simple as that. Likely, if a human had Ork bioniks grafted on in place of something they were missing, they'd either just splutter and stop functioning, or explode.

- N.

Or Both!!! :evilgrin:

Then again - most humans couldn't survive the surgery to get it put on to begin with.

"Yeah - we'z just gunna be replacing your left arm with this 500 pound wrecking ball. Pass me da staple gun and da big whackin' hammer. What do you mean anes.. aness... pain killers? Dat's what the big whackin' hammer is for!"

Brother Siccarius
14-11-2007, 21:21
Any medical reason for an ork adapting to graft transplants and bionics or is it all the ork thinks so it does thing? or is it a case of GW not expanding cause they aint marines.

Due to the Ork plant DNA helix they are extremely resilient to most damage that would simply kill other creatures. Orks can even survive long enough with their head cut off to have it re-attached to their (or someone else's) body later. Much like a fungus which can be trampled and then continue to live perfectly naturally.

Because of this resiliency and the ork's natural tendency to regenerate wounds and damage, they take to any bionic implant or procedure quite well as their body is better able to adapt to it.

Often neglected: Space Marines believe in the emperors work as a long planned and thoughtful invention. Messing with the emperors invention is blasphemy, so marines are not eager to replace their holy flesh with something which is just a replacement. A marines body is a temple.

Actually, this isn't always true at all. Marines believe that anything that would drastically change their humanity would be blasphemy, such as chaos mutations, but they aren't against certain changes in their physiology. An example of this is the various mutations in the gene-seeds of chapters and primarchs that are quite often used by any chapter that has it. There's also the chapters that came out of the 21st founding that were entirely about changing the emperor's work. They sported some of the most prominent of mutations and used them gladly.



And: Augmetics are rare. The Admech has a contingent for themselves and they donīt sell this stuff to anyone. Its difficult to produce and after all it is technology, not flesh. A unaugmeted space marine falling from a great height will have bruises and other injuries, but his muscles and bones will still function so he can pull himself together and continue fighting. A iron hand falling may experience malfunctions if the equipment gets damaged. No matter how high grade the hardware is. The iron hands have less problems with that because the support will fix it quickly.

Plus, they are expensive, i have no idea what it would cost to equip ALL space marine chapters with full/partial body replacements.

Actually, they aren't all that rare, and they're only expensive if you aren't a warrior in the Imperium.
Admech technicians and Techmarines invent and create bionic replacements in their spare time, perfecting their art. Many of these go into the Billions or more of servitors in the Imperium that do menial labor on almost every inhabited human planet. Others go into enhancements that are presented to the wounded soldiers of the Imperium to replace lost limbs and joints.

In the Iron Hands chapter alone the rank and file soldier learns and practices making many of these bionics and replacements in order to implant them.

Scion of Ferrus
31-12-2007, 12:26
The Iron Hands chapter replaces its body because they have a unique dogma. Their primarch was special and had reasons to propagate augmetic replacements.

Plus, they are expensive, i have no idea what it would cost to equip ALL space marine chapters with full/partial body replacements.

Not to talk about the thing with EM Jammers and Haywire grenades.[/QUOTE]

Our Bionics are EMP Shielded!
:chrome: