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Dragon Prince of Caledor
14-11-2007, 00:20
Well it is like this... I play high elves. my friend plays tomb kings (freshly joined Khemri after being a faithful knight of brettonia lol) anyways I always win against him no matter what i do. However that is not why i am posting. When my other friend whom i would consider myself on even tactical terms with. (he plays orcs : poorly lol empire: whom i have yet to play but dont want to and dark elves : whom i kill) Anyways to get back on topic when he played my friends Tomb Kings it was clear that I need some innovative ways to beat them. It is clear that magic resistance and avoiding chariots is the way to go. Soldier vs soldier I slaughter him. that is why the magic resistance is so important. I simply need to bring him face to face with my elves. Anyways that is me blabbing so lets hear some outside input! please and thanks!;)

Elhier
14-11-2007, 19:50
first of all HUNT THE GOD DAMN LICHE. the priests are the key as you know so take em down. personaly when facing TK i always take two units of shadow warriors about 6 strong, one unit then has a noble or if u want 2 b very nasty a prince,equipped with shadow armour and foe bane (the prince can be very nasty if equipped with gem of hoeth using law of light then hope you role cleansing flare, if not then switch to burning gaze, this then lets you zap those undead with loads of strength 6 attacks, nail charcters and chariots with foe bane annd murder skull catapults).

LORE OF LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ZAP ZAP ZAP, this is the best anti tomb kings lore, all missile spells are boosted to strength 6 and guardian light stops you turning tale and running from all those fear tests

would also surgest magic items like law masters cloak to stop those nasty incantaions.

dont bother with loads of missile troops as they will get pumled by chariots and skel horse thingys, stay manuverable is probably the best option so lion chariots and drag princes.

hope this helped
Elhier

huitzilopochtli
14-11-2007, 21:01
hope these notes will be useful...

with high elf superior magic you should be able to dominate the magic phase. focus on dispelling key spells such as moving spells, and righteous smiting on the catapult.

the casket of souls is not as big a threat as it seems at first. with elves decent ld they're not likely to lost much should it cast successfully, but remember that it might not get off easily, as only two dice can be used to cast it. use skirmishers to block your troops from it if you need to.

take out characters as quickly as you can. be warned, although tomb kings have little armour they are fairly tough and will be equipped with decent weapons, (flails mostly).

chariots must be avoided, or lured into combats they cannot win in the first turn. do not allow them to make flank charges, and beware of moving spells cast on them.

ushabti crumble easily in front of units, give some guys great weapons and they'll make mincemeat of them. (be watchful of movement spells on these guys also - don't let them flank you!)

tomb scorpions are horrible to fight against. protect any warmachines with something to fend off these guys. at WS4, S5 and T5, as well as 4 poisonous and killing blow attacks, tomb scorpions are deadly in combat against machine crew, and anything really.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
14-11-2007, 21:46
I ABSOLUTELY HATE PINCHY (THAT IS WHAT WE CALL THE SCORPION) THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT IT WITH MY CURRENT MODELS IS SIMPLY COMBAT RES. It will either kill a bolt thrower or just pop up and try to prevent me from making key charges against things like chariots. Currently we are only playing smaller games 1000pts because then i am encouraged to paint my models. (i only play with painted ones) and he only has about 1000 pts. by the way the other day HE BOUGHT MORE CHARIOTS!!! ugh...

Sauron90
15-11-2007, 07:18
I dont play HE myself but I have seen that they are having a big problem with the Tomb Scorpion not much you can do about it actualy. But now with ASF you should have a better chance (if your lucky anyway).

Rodman49
15-11-2007, 07:35
I ABSOLUTELY HATE PINCHY (THAT IS WHAT WE CALL THE SCORPION) THE ONLY WAY TO BEAT IT WITH MY CURRENT MODELS IS SIMPLY COMBAT RES. It will either kill a bolt thrower or just pop up and try to prevent me from making key charges against things like chariots. Currently we are only playing smaller games 1000pts because then i am encouraged to paint my models. (i only play with painted ones) and he only has about 1000 pts. by the way the other day HE BOUGHT MORE CHARIOTS!!! ugh...

Dude, you should be hosing him at 1k points. Tomb Kings do very poorly under 2k. What is your army list?

FurryMiguell
15-11-2007, 09:13
I dont see the problem about the, erh, "Pinchy"... Since dawn of Warhammer (for me anyway...), Ive used skirmishers to defend war machines and flanks (swarms are good for this aswell, for other armies). A unit of shadow warriors with ASF has a good chance of killing the, erh, "Pinchy" in CC, and if not, atleast you bought some time to turn one of your units and charge the, erh, "Pinchy".

And one of the beloved (not) Hawks can stand for quite a while against chariots if it gets the charge (thats my experience anyway...), but it will never win. It will buy you 2-3 rounds if youre not to unlucky:)

And dont underestimate TK magic. One of my friends play TK, and all those spells and bound items are a real pain in the a**

Cheers:D

Dragon Prince of Caledor
15-11-2007, 19:34
I kill my friend that plays tomb kings... It is my other friend who plays empire that beats me with tomb kings.... I think I could beat him with my new stratgey and list but here goes with my new tomb kings fighting list.

Hero
L 2 mage with 2 dispel scrolls
(havent used inthis list but would like to add bsb on foot generic)
Core units
10 archers
20 spearmen w command

Special units
7 silver helms
tiranoc chariot

rare unit
repeater bolt thrower

Dragon Prince of Caledor
15-11-2007, 19:35
By the way everyone at my local gw know the tomb scorpion as pinchy...! lol :)

CHOOBER SNIPES
15-11-2007, 20:37
nice list, could we hav some info on his list tho? also, go with ur name and take some DP's, 2 attacks now, and i think hitting pinchy on 3's wounding on 4's. doesnt he hav to say where pinchy pops up at the beginning of the game? if so, plant a cav unit in charge range mayb. i fought one once, i tore it up with SM's, it was kinda funny. mighta been lucky dice tho cant remember, this thing sounds a little scarier. anyway good luck, and mayb drop archers and instead take a noble with armor of caledor and a greatweapon. its 118 pts. and can beat up rank and file troops pretty well, and other low characters. Mayb it would help more than ur archers, cus most of ur strength in this army is in cc anyway. lol sry just remembered i played a TK army and charged my lord with starlance into a unt of 4 chariots. Killed every single one cus S7, it was really funny.

FurryMiguell
15-11-2007, 20:39
wait: so you have a friend playing Tomb Kings, and a friend playing Empire. You beat the guy that play TK, and you bet the guy that play Empire, but when the Empire guy play TK you loose?

And hey, fighting TK, I'd go for SeaGuard, not Archers. They are a much better multitask unit, and you'll need that:)

Cheers:D

Dragon Prince of Caledor
15-11-2007, 22:16
Yeah.. my tomb king friend is possibly the worst tactician in the world.. I killed his brettonians just the same...
When either myself or my empire buddy play with his tomb kings we are tankish! By the way tomb kings are a hoot to play with!
Anyways here's his list:

Tomb prince
Liche priest
liche priest

3 chariot
16 skeleton warriors
12 archers\
8 skeleton heavy horsemen (i think heavy are a waste of time)
tomb scorpion

that is it i think:) (by the way he just got 3 more chariots!)

Dragon Prince of Caledor
15-11-2007, 22:18
Funny story about pinchy i charged it with swordmasters the other day and i did one wound. IT KILLED FOUR SWORDMASTERS AND THEY RAN! LOL
then i killed it with static combat res from my spearmen. By the way the swordmasters ran through my spearmen and rallied!:)

Fraggzy
21-11-2007, 10:14
I kill my friend that plays tomb kings... It is my other friend who plays empire that beats me with tomb kings.... I think I could beat him with my new stratgey and list but here goes with my new tomb kings fighting list.

Hero
L 2 mage with 2 dispel scrolls
(havent used inthis list but would like to add bsb on foot generic)
Core units
10 archers
20 spearmen w command

Special units
7 silver helms
tiranoc chariot

rare unit
repeater bolt thrower


I dont think that your mage should be only one when he is lvl 2, then you should have atleast 1 more mage. Or you should degrade the lvl 2 mage to lvl1, that is 35 points extra to use.
So if you should make the army magic-offencive then have two mages, or 1 lvl 1 mage with anulian crystal to take care of the enemys magic

Neknoh
21-11-2007, 11:30
The one thing I find lacking in your list would be high strength, you use a Tiranoc Chariot against armies that are, either unbreakable or too numerable to break through a single chariot charge. I wouldreplace the chariot with a unit of White Lions or Swordsmasters, and, seing as your opponents have quite the shootyness, I'd preffer White Lions.

White Lions has a tendency to put healthy dents into units of heavy cav, chariots and monsters whilst also being very strong in resisting arrows.

marv335
21-11-2007, 11:38
a noble on a horse with the star lance should take care of those chariots.
3 s7 attacks that ignore armour saves should kill a couple when you charge ;)
in a unit of dragon princes, it should take care of a unit easily.

FurryMiguell
21-11-2007, 15:15
go for numerous and shooty units. blast em back where they came from!(hell that is:))

Cheers:D

Salteris
21-11-2007, 15:46
go for numerous and shooty units. blast em back where they came from!(hell that is:))

Cheers:D

TK have too much Toughness to have a lot of str3 shooting bother it. Scorpions, bone giants, chariots, t4-6 monsters are not going to be phased too much by HE archers. Its not worth the points. Charging calvary, 3 bolts, eagle, lion chariot, white lions, and lore of light, is your best chance. I would only take swords if he doesn't have a lot of shooting, i.e. the catapult.

smileyface
21-11-2007, 16:30
A unit of shadow warriors with ASF has a good chance of killing the, erh, "Pinchy" in CC, and if not,

Surely some mistake? If six engage it, four will fight. They will do about half a wound, on average. Meanwhile pinchy attacks back, killing 16/9... meaning on the stats it's a draw (outnumber vs wounds). Most likely result is pinchy wins this round but doesn't autobreak. Second most likely result is that it's a draw this round. Either way, next round he probably autobreaks the shadow warriors. Third most likely result is that he autobreaks them in the first round.

Tomb scorpions are nasty. They are basically going to eat a warmachine, and there isn't a lot that can stop them.

Now, if you had a lone character back there with a decent ward save and a great weapon, then you'd be in business. A combat character plus a unit of shadow warriors for the outnumber would work.


And one of the beloved (not) Hawks can stand for quite a while against chariots if it gets the charge (thats my experience anyway...), but it will never win. It will buy you 2-3 rounds if youre not to unlucky:)

This too is unlikely, because eagles don't cause fear. Chariots cause fear, have outnumber and usually a standard. The eagle has two attacks. It's almost always going to autobreak, unless you've got the fear-immunity Light spell off.
Of course, if you have got the fear-immunity spell off, then yes, good idea.


And dont underestimate TK magic. One of my friends play TK, and all those spells and bound items are a real pain in the a**

With you there. TK might not have the best magic defense in the game, but they're contenders for most effective offense. It's all well and good to say "stop the important spells, i.e. the bonus movement", but when they get one attempt from a prince, two from liches, two really powerful goes from a high lich, and a bound spell attempt, then basically that's getting through.

Before you even try to dispel, you need to look at each magical charge opportunity and count the number of wizards who can have a go at it. Think carefully about what each enemy wizard can do, and what it's possible to stop, and prioritise carefully.

smileyface
21-11-2007, 16:36
8 skeleton heavy horsemen (i think heavy are a waste of time)

The most effective way of fielding these is to use them like infantry - i.e. to go for rank bonus. Fifteen or twenty of them have above average hitting power on the charge and reasonable defence, which they combine with ranks, standard, massive unit strength, and fear. Unless you're immune to fear there's a very good chance they'll break you from the front without any support.

Of course, it's less of a problem for HE now, as the ASF means we do a bit more damage, but still.

Eight of them is a bit pointless though.

Rattlehead
22-11-2007, 09:02
Fifteen or twenty of them have above average hitting power on the charge and reasonable defence, which they combine with ranks, standard, massive unit strength, and fear. Unless you're immune to fear there's a very good chance they'll break you from the front without any support.

First of all you can't have unit of 20 since they are limited to 5-16.
You are right in one way though, the heavy horse are best in big units, but they cost to much points, WS2 and str 3.. (4 on charge) the units will be close to 300 pts with FC. And againt High Elves I think 30 extra bow-skellies would hurt a lot more.. Or perhaps 2 units with 3 charitos each? Impact hits anyone?
It's just my humble oppinion ^