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View Full Version : Do You Think Tau Need More Attention



Vostroyan
14-11-2007, 01:47
It has just rececantly popped up into my mind that the Tau have gotten some attention lately but I do no think they have gotten many new units so i decided to make a poll on whether you think they deserve your attention.

BrotherAdso
14-11-2007, 02:00
Hmmm. Well, this isn't a poll, but...

Not on this board, they don't. It seems like this board debated than the origins, purpose, morality, and bathroom habits of the Tau far too often recently. The only thing more common is inevitable Marines VS X debate.

Now in fluff, hells yes. A long debate which this board recently saw could be easily resolved if we could have a short story "sitting in" on some Tau or Etherals making a tough decision and justifying it via the "Greater Good." We realized the other day we know approximately zip about Tau civilian life --- what do fire warriors DO on vacation, anyway? What are Tau cities like? Do they poetry or art?

What it comes down to is that all the attention which Tau get in discussion results from a lack of attention in the official world of GW fluff and expansion. If someone asks "Wait, why is it that Marines spit poison again?," a simple answer can be cited from one of a half dozen articles. If someone asks, "Wait, how is it that the Tau can peacefully incorporate other races into some kind of functioning government ruled by caste?," we get to have a debate on act vs rule utilitarianism.

-Adso

Khaine's Messenger
14-11-2007, 02:46
The Tau could stand some exposition, but then so could the Eldar, really. I'd also hazard the Orks and Nids, but then if an Ork player is especially kunning, he can fall back on Gorkamorka, and Nids, well...there's not much real debate when it comes to 'nids.

As to units...I think the current mix is fine. Some more direction on how they're supposed to work together would be nice, o'course, since a lot of the background vignettes mostly discuss broad strategic topics or a more limited perspective. Ah, well.

BrotherAdso
14-11-2007, 02:53
Actually, as far as units go, I'd REALLY like to see two or three things:

1) Dedicated Gue'la units. In the Codex, not just on a website somewhere.
2) Mercenary units, a la Orks or Eldar. The Tau, lacking the kind of ideological intolerance of the Imperium, would find good use for such as these.
3) Federated psykers -- Nicassar, Human, whatever. This wouldn't change the fact they are a low-psyk army, since we wouldn't have anything on the scale of demon summoning or faith powers, but just a little more diversity.

-Adso

sprugly
14-11-2007, 12:39
on the inclusion of alien races, i always thought it would've been cool to have many more to choose from. Including an elite version of each that could only be fielded if you already had the normal one.

Lord Cypher
14-11-2007, 12:57
I would like to see a lot more about the TAU. The more the merrier. :-)

TheDarkDaff
14-11-2007, 13:11
I guess i am in the minority of those that think the Tau should never have been released at all and that GW should have concentrated on bringing back some oldies like the Squats. If anybody is at all interested in why there are no Squats in 40k the answer is simple. It is because of the Tau.

Lord Cypher
14-11-2007, 13:16
Oh yeah i remeber the Squats been years since ive seen them last.

Keichi246
14-11-2007, 13:38
I guess i am in the minority of those that think the Tau should never have been released at all and that GW should have concentrated on bringing back some oldies like the Squats. If anybody is at all interested in why there are no Squats in 40k the answer is simple. It is because of the Tau.

Not really.

It's because the core concepts of the (40k scale) Squats kinda sucked. The Squats were "dead" long before the Tau were even a glimmer in the eyes of the developers. (Andy and the boys had pretty much abandoned the Squats early second edition when they had no passion for them. The Tau were developed late 3rd edtion. Significant time difference there)

Heck - the developers even mentioned that the Demiurg (the Squat-esque replacement race) were looked at as one of the possible new races at the same time as the Tau. The Tau, the Kroot, and the Demiurg were all presented as new race ideas at the same meeting. The Demiurg were rejected as too "Squat like" and because incorporating "space dwarves" would erode the whole separation of Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k that GW had been trying fairly hard to build up. The Kroot were amalgamated into the Tau when they designers looked closer at the Tau concept and realized that being TOTALLY pants at CC was probably a bad idea...

Before you call me a "Squat hater" - I always found the core ideas of the Squat pretty cool. Space dwarves - with a strong familial structure, high technology, and high gravity mining work is an interesting concept and "works" for me. But with a name like the "Squats" (which frankly doesn't inspire martial zeal), and the really silly looking "dwarf combat bikers" - I can see why they were axed. The 40k Squat line really was quite dreadful... (The Epic line was pretty cool, though - Land Trains FTW)

I've been trying to come up with a rationalization for me to buy the Grymm figures from Hasslefree minatures, simply because I DO like the Space Dwarf concept. Sadly - I barely play 40k enough to justify buying anything at all for the 8 armies I already own - let alone minis that I will almost never play with...

*****

Back on topic - I voted 4 to 5 years. Why?

Because honestly - everyone else needs a turn around the wheel. Let the Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Inquisition have their day in the sun. I don't want to see ANY more races "squatted".

I think more alien client races for the Tau would be cool I think Gue'esa would be cool too. I think more Tau background in general would be cool. But not at the expense of the Dark Eldar or Necrons getting anything at all in the 4th edition...

Agrip. Varenus Denter
14-11-2007, 14:27
Well corrected on Squat history, Keichi246.

Personally, I'd prefer that GW never had introduced the Tau or the Necrons. I think it was fine the way it was before those two races were introduced. I see the Tau as a marketing gimmick to draw in the anime fans, and the Necrons as... well, I don't know. Granted, I think the models for the Tau look beautiful - I have a small army of them, and I think the Necrons are sweet-looking, if not a little boring fluff-wise... but I think that in my eyes neither are a "core" army in 40K.

Before you burn me at the stake here, that is only my opinion. It doesn't anger me that they exist, and I'll never scoff at you for being a Tau or Necron player - I don't army-bash.

But - the Dark Eldar and Inquisition have waited long enough... Dark Elder more so than they should have... and I'd prefer that what I see as the essential and exciting elements get their day in the sun before anything else happens.

Cry of the Wind
14-11-2007, 14:48
Before you call me a "Squat hater" - I always found the core ideas of the Squat pretty cool. Space dwarves - with a strong familial structure, high technology, and high gravity mining work is an interesting concept and "works" for me. But with a name like the "Squats" (which frankly doesn't inspire martial zeal), and the really silly looking "dwarf combat bikers" - I can see why they were axed. The 40k Squat line really was quite dreadful... (The Epic line was pretty cool, though - Land Trains FTW)

My thoughts exactly!

As for the Tau needing fleshing out. Well the army is fine as it is for the most part, it's one of the better balanced ones out there and can be played at any level (i.e. friendly fluff to competitive tournament) with good chance for success.

The background though needs some serious work. There is something to be said for having some mystery about the darker aspects of Tau culture but really it's only hinted at and mostly made up in our heads. They don't need to expose all the Tau secrets but at least a few more hints here and there would be nice. The Necrons have a less mysterious background and they are 60+ million year old robot monsters led by gods that hardly anyone is really aware of even existing (speaking in character there), compare that to a dynamic alien race that has been trading and warring with humans and other races for quite a few years now. It would make sense to know a little bit more of them.

A new codex isn't needed for years but a deeper look into their background could be done without needing a new book. Some more Black Library exposure (maybe from the Tau perspective, and not a fluff failure like Firewarrior) or even better maybe a story of an Inquisitor infiltrating a Sept world for whatever reason. We'd learn a lot more about the Tau that way since they won't be putting on a show for human diplomats.

Keichi246
14-11-2007, 14:56
Personally, I'd prefer that GW never had introduced the Tau or the Necrons. I think it was fine the way it was before those two races were introduced. I see the Tau as a marketing gimmick to draw in the anime fans, and the Necrons as... well, I don't know. Granted, I think the models for the Tau look beautiful - I have a small army of them, and I think the Necrons are sweet-looking, if not a little boring fluff-wise... but I think that in my eyes neither are a "core" army in 40K.

I'm gonna disagree, and not because I think you're army bashing.... ;)

Comment 1) I don't think the Tau were specifically designed as a marketing tool for all the anime fanboys. The Tau actually aren't THAT anime - the suit designs are far too "boxy" compared to most anime designs; and the vast majority of anime tank designs are generally more utilitarian looking than the Tau tanks. I think whatever "anime" look comes simply from having a "sleek, high tech" look - which is simply a good contrast to the rest of the 40k universe...

Comment 2) I think the Tau, Necrons, and however many other alien races GW can come up are exactly what Warhammer 40k needs.

The core nature of the 40k-verse is that humanity as a race is beset on all sides by enemies. Ancient vastly powerful enemies, races that fight for their own survival, races that seek to literally consume everything, races that war for fun, races that war for profit...

Without the enemies of the Imperium, the game could get stale. So bring on more enemies. :D


But - the Dark Eldar and Inquisition have waited long enough... Dark Elder more so than they should have... and I'd prefer that what I see as the essential and exciting elements get their day in the sun before anything else happens.

This I agree fully with... ;)

Tyran's Shadow
14-11-2007, 16:46
I know! I don't know if any other people are just...yeah (no word right now going blank, maybe obsessive :P)...but sometimes I just get a codex for the fluff and my internet's down alot so I can't always get the fluff online...I got both the Dark and Craftworld Eldar books last time...I was kinda dissapointed with some of the fluff since I was hoping for alot, proabably a bit too much, buy hey :D whatev. But the DE army list?!? WTF lol? A good amount of their stuff just is a big meatshield in all of the games I've played, and there are like 3-4 army builds that work really well, at least that I've seen, but *some* units are kinda useless....maybe that's just a *small* rant on my part but what do you guys think about that? Oh and btw does anyone know when the new DE codex comes out? Can't wait for it. I really think they need a *small* upgrade in some areas.

Permanganate
14-11-2007, 20:27
The Tau were developed late 3rd edtion.

Actually, no; the Tau were released late 2001 IIRC. Certainly 2001 is written on the sprues made for that release. Since 3E was released in 1999, that would mean Tau were planned in early 3E.

Deadnight
14-11-2007, 21:56
I'd like to see sniper drones, pathfinders, skyrays and vespids redesigned. as is, they're really dodgy. my tau list has not changed really since the old 'dex (bar me taking a few vespids for fun occasionally.) as i normally rely on kroot, crisis suits, a devilfish, fire warriors and hammerheads....

IMO the new codex was badly designed.

shoddy special characters (we dont want or need a tau emperor like the space pope, or a tau primarch like shadowsun. and dont get me started on her defeating a hivefleet without loss... :wtf:) need to be re done.

tau fluff needs an overhaul. i want a proper battle history. more on arkanusha, medV, damocles (better in the old dex IMO), nimbosa (who owns it now?) and other places.
I want a peak into life in the battle academy with the shas'saals.
I want a tau macragge. to date, they dont have a proper 40k moment. backs to the wall, against all the odds, soaked in blood up to their necks victory. let the nids eat falshia and let the tau have a Patton as a new character.
I want some kind of strain. IMO the tau "dark side", with mindo control and stuff was ridiculous. What i want is the tau questioning their very struggle.

after the nids eat falshia (my thing!) lets have an argument. Have them try to reconsile the tau'va ideology with the 40k-iverse reality. have some want to destroy all those who could pose a threat to the tau'va. the y'he, the or'es'la, the gue'la, others... Have others saying because the universe is so grim, cruel and ruthless that now it is even more important to have the tau'va, to shine the light in the darkness ever brighter. let me play the grim ruthless shas'el who has seen the void, and fights the grim, cruel fight. and let me play the shas'el who still holds to his ideals.... that is how you make the tau dark. put them on a knife edge. they can go down the path of all the other races in the 40k-iverse to only looking for themselves, or they can hold to their ideals.

GIve me a better codex. a proper rivision this time. proper wargear, not the nonsense they got this time round ("congrats! you are a heroic warrior! have a cool gun!" replace "cool gun" with power weapon" and they're identical to marines.)

Do i want it now? No, i want da orkses ta kum krumpin' furst! in a few years... i just want it done right this time. jerivs, not hoare....

Hellebore
14-11-2007, 22:04
Not really.

It's because the core concepts of the (40k scale) Squats kinda sucked. The Squats were "dead" long before the Tau were even a glimmer in the eyes of the developers. (Andy and the boys had pretty much abandoned the Squats early second edition when they had no passion for them. The Tau were developed late 3rd edtion. Significant time difference there)

Heck - the developers even mentioned that the Demiurg (the Squat-esque replacement race) were looked at as one of the possible new races at the same time as the Tau. The Tau, the Kroot, and the Demiurg were all presented as new race ideas at the same meeting. The Demiurg were rejected as too "Squat like" and because incorporating "space dwarves" would erode the whole separation of Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k that GW had been trying fairly hard to build up. The Kroot were amalgamated into the Tau when they designers looked closer at the Tau concept and realized that being TOTALLY pants at CC was probably a bad idea...

Before you call me a "Squat hater" - I always found the core ideas of the Squat pretty cool. Space dwarves - with a strong familial structure, high technology, and high gravity mining work is an interesting concept and "works" for me. But with a name like the "Squats" (which frankly doesn't inspire martial zeal), and the really silly looking "dwarf combat bikers" - I can see why they were axed. The 40k Squat line really was quite dreadful... (The Epic line was pretty cool, though - Land Trains FTW)

I've been trying to come up with a rationalization for me to buy the Grymm figures from Hasslefree minatures, simply because I DO like the Space Dwarf concept. Sadly - I barely play 40k enough to justify buying anything at all for the 8 armies I already own - let alone minis that I will almost never play with...

*****

Back on topic - I voted 4 to 5 years. Why?

Because honestly - everyone else needs a turn around the wheel. Let the Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Inquisition have their day in the sun. I don't want to see ANY more races "squatted".

I think more alien client races for the Tau would be cool I think Gue'esa would be cool too. I think more Tau background in general would be cool. But not at the expense of the Dark Eldar or Necrons getting anything at all in the 4th edition...


There have been many attempts at reinventing the squats, if you search the internet for squat army lists you'll come up with quite a few. Failing that you could always check out THIS (http://warseer.com/forums/40k-background/46402-the-death-of-the-squats.html) thread, at the moment the single biggest thread in 40k background...

Hellebore

Taipan
14-11-2007, 22:30
Necrons are part of the core fluff of 40k, without them a lot of other things don't make sense. DE are pretty extranous, but I think they deserve an update (who doesn't like evil sadistic space pirates?).

Tau do need more background, yes the special characters are crap (with the exception of Farsight), but I think the main army works well. People just need to playtest the new units and wargear. I intitially though Sniper drones, Vespid and the Special Issue gear on Crisis was a waste. Now I use all of them, and my army list is a lot more competitive as a result. The core Tau fluff is fine, GW did a good job making them substantially different to everyone else in 40k. Anyway, Farsight is a good way to go if you want renegade Tau

Squats are dead. For the hardcore fans, there are the Demiurg in Battlefleet Gothic (allied to the Tau, interestingly enough).

OT;

I think the Tau codex has had enough attention, the Inquisiton badly needs an update, as does DE. I think that Tau fluff needs be expanded (about civilian life etc), but that said, I think GW has given us a template to use for fan fiction about it. Until another 'Kill-team' or 'Fire Warrior' is released, thats what I'm waiting for. So yeah, maybe let it go for a few years, but BL should try and include more Tau stuff (Star of Damocles looks good, I may order it).

TheDarkDaff
14-11-2007, 22:42
I just want to point out that my first post was completely tongue in cheek. Now thats out of the way i will get into something a bit more meaty. I don't mind new races being brought in but what i really hate is the way the fluff is mauled everytime a new race is "born". The Tau where actually done quite well with little impact on the fluff but by comparison the way Necrons where suddenly the Uber Enemy of all life and the amount of fluff they trashed to shoe horn them in was horrible. The way the War in Heaven was changed from an Eldar vs. Slaanesh thing into an Eldar vs Necrons thing just really bugged me.

Tau really do need more fleshing out fluff wise but other than that they seem ok. Maybe a few Black Library novels written by Goto (just because has such a great grasp on how Xenos in 40k act and think) to fill in some of the background. Please note the reference to C.S. Goto is sarcastic.

Bregalad
14-11-2007, 23:23
I also voted for 4-5 years, as Tau currently have a recently updated Codex plus continuous attention by FW (IA3, largest Xeno range, many updates). So it is only fair (and "for the Greater Good" ;)) that Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, IG and Inquisition get their stuff. And while new Xeno allies for Tau are welcome, I am happy if Gue'la stay out of the Tau Empire Codex for long (as well as Chaos Tau!)

(arrrgh ... Goto-Tau-novel.... arrrgh!) ;)

Permanganate
15-11-2007, 09:04
I'd like to see sniper drones, pathfinders, skyrays and vespids redesigned. as is, they're really dodgy. my tau list has not changed really since the old 'dex (bar me taking a few vespids for fun occasionally.) as i normally rely on kroot, crisis suits, a devilfish, fire warriors and hammerheads....

Same here. While I never played Tau with the old codex, I can't see what most of the new stuff has added. Vespid are terrible for their cost, and Sky Rays and Sniper Drones aren't as good as Hammerheads. Piranhas are the only ones I would take to a competitive game.

Pathfinders die like flies every time I try to use them. Maybe they should have +1 cover save if they're in cover.

The new wargear is mixed; BASS are good, I like the CIB and the AFP has uses, but what's the point of the Ejection System or Failsafe Detonator? Also, Marker Drones are too expensive.

Still, some of the rules changes were good, such as a rationalization of the Kroot Hounds/Krootox, and the updating of Shield Drones to be useful in 4E.


shoddy special characters (we dont want or need a tau emperor like the space pope, or a tau primarch like shadowsun. and dont get me started on her defeating a hivefleet without loss... :wtf:) need to be re done.

Definitely. My thoughts about a year ago were:

What I'd really like to see is a total rethink of the special characters. Currently, we have the geriatric Space Pope, who is best served dead, Commander Farsight, who seriously limits your unit choices and is CC-oriented (play well and you don't need CC units), and one of the only ~50 females in the galaxy, who has a nice but underranged rule about using her leadership for everyone within 18", but her weapons fit is only useful if you drop her in the back of the enemy army and blow up tanks. (The premier military commander of the entire Tau Empire running around behind enemy lines, alone?!?!) Except for flavor, why would you take these people? Isn't there anyone in the Empire who knows anything about shooting or vehicles?

I still have that view.

I don't mind what GW does with the background fluff; they don't need to be almost exactly like every other race, doing everything for their own benefit. I'd just like to see some actual background on the race itself - almost everything we know is about the Fire Caste or Ethereals.

Imperialis_Dominatus
15-11-2007, 16:43
Squats are dead. For the hardcore fans, there are the Demiurg in Battlefleet Gothic (allied to the Tau, interestingly enough).

Or for the really hardcore fans, there's always a counts as army.

downundercadet07
15-11-2007, 17:23
Didn't Jervis say that if the entire wargamming community could go one week without breathing or typing the word 'squats' they would immediately start work on a new codex, but the countdown clock had never gotten past a minute and seventeen seconds? This thread makes me understand what he is talking about a little better...

Tau (like most armies in the game) could use more troop choices. Drones especially would be nice. Mainstreaming the remora and the tetra would be ace. Background wise, as others have said, a view into mainstream Tau society wouldn't kill anybody, and a perspective on the life ex-imperials face in Tau culture would be a good read.

t-tauri
15-11-2007, 19:54
We've a duplicate of this here (http://warseer.com/forums/40k-general-discussion/112695-tau-need-attention-with-other-races-post2090162.html#post2090162) so this version is closed.