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Reinnon
11-09-2005, 19:14
hi hi.

this list is what i came up with at 2000 points, i'm pretty happy with it and i'll most likely collect it.

designed around shooting.

Lords

Highborn: Alter Kindred, light armour, shield, great weapon, bow of loran, arcane bodkin, glamour weave.

Total: 282

Heroes

Noble (general): Great Weapon, light armour, amber pendant

Total: 116

Noble: Wardancer Kindred, blade of leoc

Total: 140

Spellsinger: lvl 2, dispel scroll

Total: 150

Core

10 Glade Guard: champion, musician

Total: 132

10 Glade Guard: champion, musician

Total: 132

9 dyrads: Champion

Total: 120

9 dyrads: Champion

Total: 120

5 Glade Riders: standard and musician

Total: 138

Special

15 Eternal Guard: full command

Total: 210

10 Wardancers: full command

Total: 201

Rare

5 waywatchers: Champion

Total: 128

5 waywatchers: Champion

Total: 128

Grand Total: 1997

ok, this is the list i'm aiming for, heres a quick overview of my ideas, as its an autumn army i didn't use wild riders:

1) Lord: i must admit i am proud of this combo, sickenly powerful in the shooting phase with his bow of loran + bodkin, and he has movement nine. With the glamour weave (very good imo) he should be able to survive bow fire (hopefully), i aim to keep him out of combat and take down heavy cav.

2) Heroes: the general goes with the EG and forms the center that protects the archers. The wardancer hero goes (naturally) with the wardancers and the seer sticks around near the back moving woods around and maybe casting a few regens here and there, but this isn't meant to be a magic heavy force.

3) Core: the archers will do what archers do, move and fire, the dyrads will try and flank charge with the wardancers. Glade riders will act as warmachine hunters and generally be annoying (i like fast cav).

4) Special: EG will hold the center and counter charge while the wardancers will flank charge enemies while they protect my center.

5) Rare: i love waywatchers, these guys will be my anti heavy cav and general annoyence for my enemies.

so, the idea of the force is to hit them with everything and give him far to many targets that can deal harm, biggest danger i can see is magic heavy horde armies like VC or missile armies like sea guard.

it might not be the most powerful of WE armies, but atm it suits my style. Its not set in stone as i need to play with it.

Note: as autumn limited number of forest spirits

Eldaron
12-09-2005, 13:39
Well, you could really get into some serious trouble. The whole list is pretty much based on denial of points, but regarding this the army isn`t that well balanced.
First, you should give the spellsinger a second dispel scroll. Also, I suppose you could let him stay at lvl 1. dispel dice generated will be the same and against most armies he won`t get many spells through anyway.
I would drop the Wardancers to around 6 or 7 and get a second unit with about 5. The bigger unit gets the noble (drop the blades and give him the moonstone (there usually should be 2 forests on the table), makes them far more maneuverable and gives you another unit that can annoy the oponnent, hunt chracters, war machines, flank units or get at them from behind), the smaller one stays with the core as flanking unit and can act as bodyguard for your spellsinger if necessary (i.e. if the opponent uses lore of life, you cannot afford loosing your one dispel caddy).
Personally IŽd drop the glade riders and one dryad unit and get a unit of hawk riders, but that`s really personal perference.
Also, I don`t think the champion in the waywatchers are really worth it, but if you have some spare points...
As for the HB, I don`t think he will pay off. The model is really cost intensive and even with BS6 and his bow he won`t do that much damage in a game, even if he gets to shoot every turn at a valuable target. And that won`t happen. He still is vulnerable to missile fire and magic, so you have to be careful when moving him around. The fact that he cannot march when he wants to shoot will really limit his options, since you can`t just run him around as you like. And in close combat he is only marginally better than a alter noble with great weapon and dies as easily (but costs far more than a noble). In my opinion absolutely not worth it.

for a tactic that depends on holding the core and denying the enemy points it is not fast, maneuverable and flexible enough.
I.e.: You are using waywachters. that`s just fine, but the main asset of waywatchers ist that you dan hidner the enemys movement from turn one (the killing blow is a nice bonus, but not their main value). Only that won`t do you much good, since most of you units are not that fast and you glade riders and the HB alone won`t do you much good regarding that.

Reinnon
12-09-2005, 14:00
hmmm, basically your saying i should get rid of my glade riders and replace them with a wardancer unit.

sounds like a good idea, will have to give it a go.

but, i intend to keep my HB as i see it (along with my way watchers) as my only real anti-heavy cav in my force, so for the moment they are staying

Eldaron
12-09-2005, 15:24
I`m not saying you should get rid of the waywachters. And you SHOULD get rid of the HB. Though shooting can help, battles are won in close combat, not through shooting. Your HB just won`t be worth his points. You shouldn`t depend just on that to get rid of knights. Combined assault works just as well.
Also, you are missing the basic point. What I am saying is that you overall tactic seems to be to slow down you opponent, deny him victory points and then slowly try to get rid off his units. But for that tactic your army ist just too slow and not maneuverable enough. You can`t put enough pressure on your opponent. Basically in your list, you have the wardancers, EG, archers and dryads as basic core, where the whole core is slowly moving forward. The only units that can put pressure on the enemy is your HB (which will never make him worth his points, since you have to move him around fast. As a Alter kindred his tasks differ greatly from those of your army base, but he will be nearly acting alone in your list, which means he just won`t make much difference), your glade riders and the waywatchers. The glade riders, being nearly alone will probably be shreddered to pieces, before they can accomplish anything. the waywatchers are alright.
basically you should try (since you will probably have zero magic support) get more units in your army that can really put pressure on the enemy from the beginning and thus support the waywatchers. This will be far more effective.

Lion El Jason
12-09-2005, 15:40
I think your hero choices are "not optimised". I wouldn't take those options and for the reasons outlined above there are better ways of choosing them. In a list like yours I'd have a L4 caster as my lord.

Dont buy Glade Guard champions...no use.

Also IMO you should get 2 units of wardancers (Even if its 2 units of 5, one with your champion one with the hero.)
The glade riders are good for preventing march moves and the like, they can easily get behind most enemies and be a pain.

I'm not convinced about waywatchers yet...and deffinatly DO NOT buy them a champion. The +1 BS for 1 model is ALWAYS a waste.

Reinnon
12-09-2005, 16:42
ok ok ok, slight rethink.

i don't want a magic heavy force, as i can just get out my 14 power dice (and 2 hot pots!) staff of change tzeentch force i have in a locked box under my bed :)

Lords

Highborn: The Oaken Armour, Spear of Twlight, Shield

Total: 238

<notes: seeing as everyone said my old HB was crap (even though i can't really see how) i fell back on combo two, to join my eternal guard>

Heroes

Noble: Wardancer Kindred, Moonstone of the hidden way

Total: 140

Spellsinger: dispel scroll, divination orb

Total: 140

Core

10 Glade Guard: musician

Total: 126

10 Glade Guard: musician

Total: 126

10 Dyrads: Champion

Total: 132

10 Dyrads: Champion

Total: 132

5 Glade Riders: Musician

Total: 129

5 Glade Riders: Musician

Total: 129

Special

15 Eternal Guard: Full command

Total: 210

7 Wardancers: full command

Total: 147

7 wardancers: full command

Total: 147

Rare

5 Waywatchers

Total: 120

5 Waywatchers

Total: 120

There, any better?

ok, some notes:

1) Lord: this is my combo two, due to lack of points (and i don't like the model) he is on foot. with killing blow and regen he should hopefully be good (but, as i've learnt in WHFB anything that i think looks good on paper turns out to be bad combos)

2) heroes: as my new guy is effectivly an upgrade on my last list noble little change here, just given the wardancer an extra item and the spellsinger more defense power

3) core: stayed the same just added a new glade rider unit

4) special: split the wardancer unit in 2

5) rare: no change

overall, i must admit i liked my old list better (as i really liked that sniper lord)
this list seems a bit.......dull (and ergo becomes a good list?)

Eldaron
12-09-2005, 18:48
Well, if you liked your old list better, try it. I never said my opinion was the only reasonable one ;)
The list may seem dull to you, but it certainly is more efficient than the old one (though IŽd still make some changes to make it even more "dull" :p).
And I tried your first combo myself in some games and from my experience I`d say it`s around 230 (270 if fully loaded on magic items) of crap.

jimbob78
13-09-2005, 12:27
Cool list. Good luck using it.