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View Full Version : VDR still exist? I want to field a Baal Predator



Vic
15-11-2007, 16:09
But I dont have BA. Does VDR still exist and would that allow me to field one? I have one, I'd like to get it fixed up and roll her out for a spin.....

bhusus
15-11-2007, 16:11
Haha I'm in the same boat on this one - I remember when Sals were allowed to have Heavy Flamer Sponsons on their Predator Destructors - I'd love to be able to do that again and the Baal is the closest thing to it...but my brother won't let me field it with my current SM army...I'm sure I can convince him though...

Bookwrak
15-11-2007, 16:16
Just use the rules for a Baal Predator, and ask your oppenent if you can use it before hand.

AdmiralDick
15-11-2007, 16:25
problem solved.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/bloodangels-codex/1/

the VDR rules do still exist (they were written after the Codex: Dark Eldar, so they're only as invalid as they are), but a lot of people on these forums seem to think if somethings old then its not really part of the game anymore (and they consider anything over a year to be old). they can be found in on of the Chapter Approved books, if you can track it down.

catbarf
15-11-2007, 19:42
Pitiful that on their own website they have 'Blood Angles'.

Culven
15-11-2007, 19:48
Hehe, "VDR rules" makes me giggle. Gotta love when the Department of Redundancy Department gets involved.

For the "special" kids, "VDR Rules" = Vehicle Design Rules Rules.

As for the Blood Angles, I love them. Especially their 666 degree angle Chapter Badge.

Torga_DW
15-11-2007, 19:55
blood angles are what you get when you cut yourself on a sharp model. =)

Culven
15-11-2007, 22:07
blood angles are what you get when you cut yourself on a sharp model. =)
I thought that was how you dedicate a model to Khorne. :confused:

Torga_DW
15-11-2007, 22:08
Well then, i seem to have dedicated a few models to khorne in my time then. =)

ehlijen
16-11-2007, 02:52
Just be aware that because of the age many of the vdr points costs, especially the weapon list, no longer fully corresponds to current balancing. Opponent's consent and input is very helpful in that regard.

The Gothic Me
16-11-2007, 05:19
In my eyes, the VDR rules have always been guide lines more then solid rules, even when they were new. So in that respect, they really don't get outdated so long as you and your opponent can reach an agreement.

Stella Cadente
16-11-2007, 05:28
VDR does exist
http://www.ageofstrife.com/tools/vdr/
however using that for a ball (with HB sponsons) makes it 173pts

chromedog
16-11-2007, 06:34
Using VDR to do up a variant vehicle always did make it more expensive than the codex version. I think a VDR land raider cost over 300 pts (with only standard weapons fit).

It was one of the checks and balancing measures put into it. Yes, it can be abused, but if you actually follow the intent for which it was devised, you won't abuse it. It was a way for those gamers who've been playing since RT who have vehicles that 'no longer' exist but who want to use them in 3rd+ ed.

With the tau and necron add-ons (CA2004) you can even build superheavy and pylon wannabes for those races as well.

Vaktathi
16-11-2007, 07:22
VDR does exist
http://www.ageofstrife.com/tools/vdr/
however using that for a ball (with HB sponsons) makes it 173pts

wow, I made a basic 3 HB leman russ and it ended up at 180pts instead of 155 as per the IG codex:eek:

Stella Cadente
16-11-2007, 08:49
wow, I made a basic 3 HB leman russ and it ended up at 180pts instead of 155 as per the IG codex:eek:
it will do, however if you take all the Heavy Bolters away, you get the same basic cost as a Leman russ

Eulenspiegel
16-11-2007, 10:50
Well Vic, to quote your signature:


In my honest opinion, 99% of unique/theme armies should have to do with creativity, modeling, painting, and unit selection, and does not require any special rules.

You have absolutely no right to even "want" to have a Baal. Stick by your standards and use it as an Autocannon-Baal, if you like the Model.

ehlijen
16-11-2007, 11:32
VDR has a certain hidden extra cost built in to account for "not meant to be in the codex tax". Same as forgeworld models, but even more severe in most cases.

logosloki
16-11-2007, 11:51
looking for a VDR builder with tau weapons. the angelfire on, while useful, doesn't have them (they do have necrons, but no option for WBB either :( I was hoping to make a 10/10/10 with 2 twin-linked gauss rifles with WBB. just for kicks)

VDR is still valid, and in some cases, as long as you bring it to the organisers in advance, tourney legal. I just wish for apocalypse they updated it for 4.0 rules. that would of been the best icing for a very good cake.

Spacker
16-11-2007, 11:55
VDR does exist
http://www.ageofstrife.com/tools/vdr/
however using that for a ball (with HB sponsons) makes it 173pts

Oh, that reminds me - I've taken that codebase and added the Tau options to it, plus a simple PDF generator too (doesn't look as nice as the HTML output, but at least it's another option). Also note that you still need the VDR to actually use the datasheet. I'll put the updated calc live now ;)




the VDR rules do still exist (they were written after the Codex: Dark Eldar, so they're only as invalid as they are), but a lot of people on these forums seem to think if somethings old then its not really part of the game anymore (and they consider anything over a year to be old). they can be found in on of the Chapter Approved books, if you can track it down.

Except that the DE codex has an FAQ to attempt to pull it into line with 4th ed, but the VDR doesn't ;)

The latest VDR are in Chapter Approved 2004 (in the UK we never got that book, just a lame stripped down version call the "40k Annual" with the VDR and most of the other good stuff removed), or in UK WD 257 (252 had the original rule but they were adjusted slightly in 257) and 272 (which adds the Tau). They're also on the German GW site, but unless you can read German they might not be that useful :)

logosloki
16-11-2007, 12:09
Thanks for the update. that helps with some of the things I wanted to do. I'm trying to make a series of small vehicles, sort of like utes, buggies and cars, etc. with different weapons on them. more for use in combat patrols and kill teams, but maybe as squadrons in armies.

also making some walkers aka mechs. just for theory on the walkers. until I find small models I like

mistformsquirrel
16-11-2007, 14:37
wow, I made a basic 3 HB leman russ and it ended up at 180pts instead of 155 as per the IG codex:eek:

Yeah, VDR is intentionally overpriced. Its to mitigate the fact that people can abuse the rules to create "ZOMG UBAR" vehicles. The idea of VDR isn't to make "good' units; at least not ones that are better than in your codex - but rather, to let you build stuff thats fun and fluffy.

For example, I came up with the idea of a Guard Medium Tank; the Lion'el Johnson (Obviously playing off the Leman Russ).

All told it costs nearly as much as its larger cousin; and is substantially weaker *but* - its a cool idea; so someday when I do my Guard army, I'll field it anyway.

The main gun is a "Missile Launcher" which is actually intended as a somewhat weaker battle cannon. (Ie: it can fire AT or HE shells, AT shells being Krak Missiles, while HE shells are Frag Missiles) - So its not really a "Missile Launcher"; but it has the same stats.

Trying to figure out how to post the datafax...

MGRockwell
16-11-2007, 15:38
I wonder what you all would feel about a Black Templar player using VDR to make a 13, 12, 10 10-man transport.

Basically exactly like a Rhino but with the upped armor values.

Complete with a single Storm Bolter it comes to 95 points - using the VDR html document earlier in this thread. I would basically want to use this as my main dedicated transport for my troops for obvious reasons with the survivability of my current force.

However, it seems like this would be incredibly better for me so I don't know if it should fly?

Also, when I switch it to open-topped it doesn't increase the points value even though for SM it allows for assaulting out of the vehicle with absolutely no drawbacks.

I think I might propose it to my gaming group, but was wondering what you all thought.

Spacker
16-11-2007, 15:47
Also, when I switch it to open-topped it doesn't increase the points value even though for SM it allows for assaulting out of the vehicle with absolutely no drawbacks.


For very heavily armoured vehicles the VDR actually reduces the cost when open-topped, and it will never increase it.

No drawbacks you say? Just watch out for Ordnance and Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates (see page 68 for more info).

Also remember that VDR was designed for use with 3rd edition, so some things make not make sense with 4th edition. And finally always check the output of the VDR calculator against the VDR themselves - while the original code should be correct, I never wrote it (and haven't thoroughly checked it, but it was on the RGMW site for years) and while adding the Tau options I might have broken something else.

MGRockwell
16-11-2007, 15:58
I will check when I get home from work.

However I thought that SM power armor negates the effects of open-topped? I can't find the page at the moment but perhaps it only negates the +1 to damage rolls and they remain vulnerable to blasts?

Spacker
16-11-2007, 16:05
SM Power Armour only negates the "count as open topped when being shot at" when using fire points (rulebook page 64, bottom right) from a closed vehicle. It won't make any difference from an open topped vehicle.