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View Full Version : Any use of Chaos Troll, Ogre, Centigor and Minotaurs in a mortal army?



him_15
15-11-2007, 15:43
I just pick up a beastmen codex and go though the army list, and these beastmen looks quite impresive that I am thinking to include them in my undivided chaos army...so would like to have some advices on it.
Does anyone use these special beast unit in a mortal army at all? How do they perform? Any specific tactica of using them well? what about the pro and con between them?
Pleas share your experience and opinion:)

Briohmar
15-11-2007, 17:31
Hi, first off, before someone else mentions it, in WHFB we tend to say army book rather than codex, but thats not all that important. Centigors and Minotaurs are both very good additions to a BOC army, and can also be used in special slots with a mortal army. I have not used chaos trolls, but know people who swear by them provided you can give them a character or the general to babysit their stupidity tests. As for Ogres, most players I know would rather use a rare slot to take ogre Kingdom ogres over a special slot chaos ogre. There really is no difference except that you can take Iron guts or the Leadbelchers and get the bull charge which you don't get with Chaos ogres

sephiroth87
15-11-2007, 18:02
I have all of them, and use a beast herd, centigors, and chaos ogres in my mortal army. The centigors do ok and combine well with my chaos knights. The ogres are a hit-or-miss unit, but the great weapons and relatively fast speed gives them a good way for your army to get flank charges or open up the enemy's big armored units. The beast herd nearly always does spectacularly, since I started loading up on characters in this unit. I take a Bray shaman, wargor, and a beastlord in the unit. If you look up Marcopollo and Neknoh on these boards, you'll find that both of them are helpful and know a lot about using these units pretty effectively.

Farhbot
20-11-2007, 06:17
Hiya, I use Chaos Minotaurs as heavy hitters or antiwarmachine troops. They move only slightly slower than my Chaos Knights with a 6M but with GW they hit with St 6 and cause fear. I was tempted to use Chaos Trolls as well but Mino's do not have Stupidity. IMHO I think they work very well but it depends upon which enemy army you are facing. My main problem is I face 2 shooty army's (Empire and Dwarf) and Mino's draw gun fire like flagellates draw crazy. :D

Schlanger
20-11-2007, 09:12
Everybody talk about minos, ogres and trolls, so I'l tell a bit about centigors, which /i really like. Their move trough woods ability allows them to _march_ through wood, so with m8 they makegreat flanking unit, and they are quite had hitting. 5 of them have 6 s5 attacks and 5 s4 attaks on charge (providing that you have a champion amonst them). s4 is from their trample ability. So, they are rare cavalry whose mount has s4 ws4.
Yes, they have poor ini, but they have all the chances to charge.
And if they get frenzied.... or become stupid....

Salyx
20-11-2007, 09:40
I really love Chaos Trolls. In games from 1000-2000 I like to use them as my general's Unit. They are not very often stupid and my regeneration saves are always really awesome. They have served me well and are one of the hardest to beat Units Chaos can deploy at that game size.
Another way of playing Trolls is in a large Unit with Chaos General in it and a BSB with the Banner of the Gds near it. Anything that runs into this Unit is dead.
Though you have to pay attention to your BSB,without being stubborn it could become dificult to hold charges.

Von Bismarck
20-11-2007, 09:48
minos are a great choice for any army, and they are pretty independent unlike trolls which need a babysitter like a 2 year old.

ogres suck bad

Schlanger
20-11-2007, 10:11
Why ogres suck?
I mean, I dont wanna say that they dont, but they are 5 pts cheaper than minos, have lesser WS and Ini, but same number of wounds and attacks, have same Str, same weapon options and better armor options. So why?

Briohmar
20-11-2007, 10:23
Why ogres suck?
I mean, I dont wanna say that they dont, but they are 5 pts cheaper than minos, have lesser WS and Ini, but same number of wounds and attacks, have same Str, same weapon options and better armor options. So why?

I can think of a couple of reasons. One you can mark a Mino, but not an Ogre, You already mentioned WS and I, and the models are so gawd-ugly. Also DOW Ogres can be brought in as well as I mentioned earlier, and they can do a better job than a Chaos Ogre.

Kerill
21-11-2007, 04:57
Ws4, Ld8 and 3D6" pursuit.

Tastyfish
21-11-2007, 07:39
I can think of a couple of reasons. One you can mark a Mino, but not an Ogre, You already mentioned WS and I, and the models are so gawd-ugly. Also DOW Ogres can be brought in as well as I mentioned earlier, and they can do a better job than a Chaos Ogre.

Its just a case of swapping bull charge for a 3+ save though isn't it (given heavy armour, hand weapon and shield)? I would have thought the chaos ogres would have been more popular than the OK ones, at least ruleswise anyway. They're kicking out a similar number of hits to chosen (1.5 for the ogres, and 1.3 for the chosen so slightly better infact) whilst keeping the same armour - plus fear on top of that.

That said, I've never used them as I've not got round to converting the models yet.

Briohmar
21-11-2007, 08:37
The problem is the shortage of special slots dictates the need to be particularly selective on what you take. Also points are at a premium in the force. Two beastherds and a marked bestigor unit, 3-4 characters with items, and you're well into the second half of your points allocation. Well give or take. Most players like to include Dragon ogres, as they are particularly nasty, throw in some centigors and a marked unit of four minos with great weapons, et voila, you are finished. No points left for anything. Replace the DOs with some leadbelcher DoW's and you now have a shooting phase (of sorts) but are still considerably low on points left (and those remaining few points should be spent on the single most essential unit available: hounds.)

Urgat
21-11-2007, 14:12
Why ogres suck?
I mean, I dont wanna say that they dont, but they are 5 pts cheaper than minos, have lesser WS and Ini, but same number of wounds and attacks, have same Str, same weapon options and better armor options. So why?

Well, my chaos mortal opponent always fields a unit of 3 chaos ogres with great weapons and I have to ritually kill them all before they do anything in any battle we play, and usualy in the most humilating ways, too (I actually got to take their banner and add it to my common gobs after they charged them, failed to break them, lost the second fight, were overun and killed, and all that, w/ol any uspport for the gobs :p). Quite frankly, the only good thing I've ever seen them do was giving me lots of easy victory points :D
I too believe that a unit of four minos would be way more effective, but he believes they fit more with his army, and I respect that.

Ender101
22-11-2007, 13:46
[QUOTE=Briohmar;2110457]I can think of a couple of reasons. One you can mark a Mino, but not an Ogre, You already mentioned WS and I, and the models are so gawd-ugly.QUOTE]

Am I the only one who thinks the Mino models are ugly as sin? At least with the ogres you can convert the Ogre Kingdom models quite easily.

But besides that, the I shouldn't really be a factor since most generals are going to give the minos great weapons in the firt place. The ogre can have better armor and has nearly identical stats to a Mino, other than marking and the slightly higher WS.

To me it seems like a fair trade off.

sephiroth87
22-11-2007, 15:57
I still love the chaos troll models. Come on, the musician is a tuba player!!! :D

Urgat
22-11-2007, 16:26
Am I the only one who thinks the Mino models are ugly as sin?

Well I happen to love them, in fact. They would be plastic, I'd have started a minotaur army just because :p

Briohmar
22-11-2007, 17:02
I also think the Mino models are quite cool. The big cleaver is a very cool weapon, as is the axe. I even did a very special Slaaneshi banner for my Minos.

dcikgyurt
23-11-2007, 21:22
I'm still on the fence here, both units seem to have their merits, but the debate over ogres and minotaurs is one I'm sure to be having at some point. That said, Centigors appear to almost be a no brainer for a beast army, they are the only cavalry you get (well, there's puupies, but they don't seem to be that good).

Briohmar
24-11-2007, 15:48
I'm still on the fence here, both units seem to have their merits, but the debate over ogres and minotaurs is one I'm sure to be having at some point. That said, Centigors appear to almost be a no brainer for a beast army, they are the only cavalry you get (well, there's puupies, but they don't seem to be that good).

Puppies are the single most useful unit you can have in any variety of Chaos army. They can be used to screen your heavy hitters, against night goblins, send them in first to spring the fanatics, occassionally they do work as a flanker (if there's enough of them left after you've sacrificed them as a baiting unit.

Last night I played against a greenskin horde. One unit of hounds got hit by three (really good rolls for the greenskins) fanatics, and died a horrible death, but allowed the Daemon Prince to then move in and terrorize the night goblins with Lvl 2 shaman and make them leg it off the board, my other hounds then set-up in front of the giant, who naturlally charged them and slaughtered them to a nose, and over-ran just far enough for my three great weapon wielding Minos to chop him up into little (well littler) pieces. Effectively, my 60 points of hounds allowed me to take out almost 500 points worth of enemies. That's just one of many successes I've had with them. Rarely, though it does happen sometimes, my hounds will survive past turn 3. When this happens then I use them to hold a table quarter until the end of the game. At that point most of my fighting force is where I want them (combat) and the hounds just get in the way.

txamil
24-11-2007, 18:05
Then I will second the minotaur models are ugly as sin.

logan054
24-11-2007, 18:11
I do use alot of minotaurs in my mortal army from time to time, just gotta love these guys, great for the points and having a extra fear causer is always good.

chainer7
24-11-2007, 20:56
I think the great weapon armed minotaurs models are really good :cool: but the additional hand weapon models suck but are still far superior too the horrendous chaos orgre models :eek:. Centigor models are really nice if expensive to buy moneywise and are a really useful and hard hitting unit to include in any chaos army.

dcikgyurt
24-11-2007, 20:59
Puppies are the single most useful unit you can have in any variety of Chaos army. They can be used to screen your heavy hitters, against night goblins, send them in first to spring the fanatics, occassionally they do work as a flanker (if there's enough of them left after you've sacrificed them as a baiting unit.

Last night I played against a greenskin horde. One unit of hounds got hit by three (really good rolls for the greenskins) fanatics, and died a horrible death, but allowed the Daemon Prince to then move in and terrorize the night goblins with Lvl 2 shaman and make them leg it off the board, my other hounds then set-up in front of the giant, who naturlally charged them and slaughtered them to a nose, and over-ran just far enough for my three great weapon wielding Minos to chop him up into little (well littler) pieces. Effectively, my 60 points of hounds allowed me to take out almost 500 points worth of enemies. That's just one of many successes I've had with them. Rarely, though it does happen sometimes, my hounds will survive past turn 3. When this happens then I use them to hold a table quarter until the end of the game. At that point most of my fighting force is where I want them (combat) and the hounds just get in the way.

Thanks, that's good to know. I just saw the stats and points and felt I could do with another fast moving unit instead, but now that you've mentioned it I'll add them to my shopping list.

theunwantedbeing
24-11-2007, 21:12
1. It's not a codex, its an armybook. Kindly use the correct term in future.

2. Chaos trolls, pretty nifty in combat and really rather tough as well. Leadership is appauling of course but then you keep the general nearby or stick a character with them to lend them some leadership(the general tends to be the more useful).
Good at stopping knights, killing well...anything. Bit expensive of course.

3. Minotaurs. Generally percieved as a very good unit, virtually always given great weapons as passing up all those st6 attacks is a bit silly really. They are good at persuing and stand a decent chance of running down even fliers and knights (or simply overrunning into a new enemy).
The most useful ability is to be given the mark of the general.
Nurgle...you give them light armour for those 4+ saves
Slanesh...only bother if you have free points
Undivided..it' free you take it, unless your gone in the head.
Khorne...frenzied minotaurs,sure the extra hand weapon is tempting but 5 st4 attacks each sounds a whole lot weedier than 4 st6 attacks each(and it is a whole lot weedier against anything but skinks)
Tzeentch...extra power dice you dont have to hide at the back of the board.

4. Ogres...best to ignore really.

5. Centigor. Throwing weapons are the users strength +1, Centigors are strength 4.
4+1 = 5
Worth taking just for your opponent to go "thye hit how hard?????"
Decent overall,give them sheilds.

bluebugs
25-11-2007, 02:40
I think chaos ogres are a good choice. Decent armor save(well, for ogres) great weapon acess, and let's face it, a box of iron guts and a little GS is far more better looking and cheap that 4 of those ugly, ugly minotaurs.

Jozell
25-11-2007, 13:29
I use the Minos in my beast army and they do very well. The over run is really nice to have.

I also love my Centigors, occasionally they wont do anything, but most of the time they earn two or three times their points!