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Wintermute
15-11-2007, 19:13
Its time for yet another White Dwarf Feedback thread, this time for the December 2007 issue (US 335, UK 336 etc).

If any of you wish to make more general comments about WD, please will you make them in the General White Dwarf Feedback Thread (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23972).

I would like to make a couple of other requests. If you post the score you have given to the current WD on the thread, would you please explain why especially if you have voted 1 or 10. I think this is useful (and interesting) for other WarSeer members reading the thread, it also provides useful feedback for others who read the thread which may include GW Staffers.

The other request is related to the previous one. Do not criticise people for posting their score and views about WD, I believe we are all entitled to voice our opinions without the the fear of them being criticised.

As always, all off-topic posts and spam will be deleted without notice.

Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition

ssorck
18-11-2007, 16:25
I gave it a 5 - which may have been high...

I basically read the Apocolypse bat rep (Tau vs. BA - meh)

Only a 40k player - but there was some fantasy stuff (dragons) - I was actually hoping for aa bits pictorial, but no luck, just a painting guide...

Oh well, hoping the next one is better

natedogg710
18-11-2007, 21:15
I gave it a 7.

The battle report was alright, but not that great.

I mainly gave it that score for two of the painting articles. I thought the Mark Lifton painting masters article and the article recapping all of the slayer swords was fantastic. It gives you a great idea of how a lot of the conversions and painting were done for Golden Demon.

The baneblade article was okay. It didn't really give any tips that I wouldn't already think of on the Baneblade. I didn't get chance to read any of the Fantasy articles yet, but the one on how to build fantasy terrain looks promising.

Overall, not a bad issue but it could still use some improvements.

Phunting
19-11-2007, 00:43
Any chance of a summary of what's in it?

suprememidgetoverlord
23-11-2007, 23:02
Gonna try and get this started..

Took a peak today at the store. Starts off with an apocalypse battle report, imperial/blood angels vs tau. 2 baneblades, space marine battle company, didnt take the time to read but seemed interesting.

High elf dragon, I like the red paint sheme, but I really like the elf riding it, giant axe and shield. Not going to buy it, but nice to see how the beast comes together.

The article I really liked was the one with the fantasy buildings. They show a couple of exemples of how to mix kits. They put the watch tower on top of the fortress, looks really good! They also mix up the chaos rune thing with the watch tower as well, to create a wizard tower. Really liked this article and inspires me to make my own! Been a whilse since white dwarf did that for me...

Not a fan of LOTR, and sadly enough it's not camels that are going to make me change my mind...

I'd say that this is an average issue from my first look through it, I'll come back to rate it when I buy it.

Next month with the orks, now that's something that gets my blood boiling!!

galahad67
24-11-2007, 02:27
gave it a 6

battle rep was ok but not great. really think tau are just 1 small step above necrons for least interesting opponent.

lotr stuff looks nice but I'm never going to get any (and i have tried out ALL the rest of the GW 'verse - including the specialist games). I usually enjoy the LOTR Batt reps (the mori one was kid of interesting) but anything else for LOTR is usually a waste of space.

the fantasy building article was ok but nothing special.

the fantasy elves stuff again just ok.

there really wasn't anything great in this issue. maybe something will gain traction when I reread it.

fwacho
24-11-2007, 07:23
Got mine a bit early. which was nice.

The good / entertaining:
1. golden demon comp and top models from country competitions. the former had great lack of white space while the later had a bit more. still the layout guy is doing well.
2. High-elf drgaon article / paitning guide. The designing notes were interesting. i almost feel like I learned something. The actual painting guide was pretty solid as well. reds are difficult to do after all.
3. Modelling workshop on tower and castel walls. Great, eye-catching, even got my wife to stare for a while. shame i can't afford the parts. Would be nice to see a "build it for under 5 pounds" guide.
4. how to paint a baneblade offered decent advice, some of which wasn't too obvious, and even a technique I'd never seen before.
5. I like the little bits on 'eavy metal painters. This one was pretty good. teh ork on boar was pretty sweet.
6. Cities shall fall part two. more well written narative and some cool scenario ideas.
7. Middle earth campaign was a great idea. I particaully like the innovative movement system suggested. this could be addapted for other systems. simple but reasonably elegant. (keep the campaign stuff coming guys.)

The mediocre:

1. Standard bearer had a lot of words but not much information. last month's was much better
2. APOC Battle report would be in poor catagory as it was difficult to follow and had a wasted page that said "apocalypse battel report" (although pic does seem to represent actual battle). however, it redeemed itself to a degree by not using just studio models (showcasing a very cool Tau paint job) and providing the "area denial node" data sheet.
3. Ork spearhead still doesn't have a US price. but its contents are now confirmed as is the battle force which doens't seem like alot (althouh it is about $35 off in teh Us of seperate components.) That being said boys are gonna be about $3 a model now. (ouch) I'm gonna need to pick up some more 2cnd ed ones.

The not so great:
1. early adds at front. only 10 pages so not that bad. they also feature the serpetn riders ogf the east coming in Feb directly after. something about "Talisman" too. that kinda left me in the dark.
2. Tool box page (advertisemnt) for movement trays... of course tihs is pretty big so I guess I can stand it.


Over all this is a good issue. Lots of good stuff , but great is too strong a word. then agian, very little worthless stuff so getting a reasonable bang for your buck here.

the best thing was the LOTR campaing rules.

Once again. Nothing truly awe inspiring (okay, the LOTR campaign was pretty good) but nothing bad either. I'll probably hang on to this one for awhile. This mag was a good base line issue (what an average issue should be like). Every issue should seek to be better than this one, but if they equal it they've at least earned their pay. Solid work for a non-release month.

richred_uk
24-11-2007, 07:56
Is the UK running late this month? I expected mine yesterday (Subscriber) but didn't get it - anyone else?

Rich

Destris
24-11-2007, 08:05
UK WD has been consistently late for most people for months now.

D.

Wintermute
24-11-2007, 08:15
Is the UK running late this month? I expected mine yesterday (Subscriber) but didn't get it - anyone else?

Rich

This is a feedback thread, not a 'my WD hasn't arrived yet' thread :mad:

Please keep your posts on topic or they will be deleted.

Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition

Radioactive Bob
24-11-2007, 12:47
Mine also hasn't arrived yet (UK), but i did get a galnce at the store one.

The Bat rep was a bit bland, not really mind boggling like the other one. The dragons are nice, and the wizard tower conversion was very good. I liked the cities shall fall, mainly cause I'm a chaos player, but a great narrative.

Killgore
24-11-2007, 17:53
aparently the december issue will come with a free black library book but only from morrisons? or does it come with an issue bought from anywhere?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/news.asp?id=443 -link to BL site with the news

Wintermute
24-11-2007, 18:23
aparently the december issue will come with a free black library book but only from morrisons? or does it come with an issue bought from anywhere?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/news.asp?id=443 -link to BL site with the news

Why do I think I'm repeating myself :mad:

This is a feedback thread not a thread to discuss if WD is late/on time or what promotions GW are doing in different countries, especially when the latter topic has already been covered in another thread which can be found here (http://warseer.com/forums/fantasy-general-discussion/114136-free-gw-novel-at.html?highlight=morrisons) :mad:

Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition

darren redstar
25-11-2007, 20:46
surely on a thread giving feedback about an issue of white dwarf, the fact that subscibers in the UK (ie the place where the company is actually is based) haven't even seen this months issue is 'on topic' what is actually in the wd (ie a free book ) is most definately 'on topic' or are what is really being said here is that thisthread id really about the US WD and the uk readers can get stuffed?

brother malthius
26-11-2007, 02:37
One thing I've noticed, on the Golden Demon section, I've seen that text, verbatum before. I can't remember if it was last year's Golden Demon section or on the website or somewhere else. But I've seen the exact same intro text.
Also, I find it funny that in the first couple of paragraphs, they say "its not about games workshop" but then later say "so and so is disqualified because its not games workshop like."
The huberis comes off like "Its our world, you are lucky we even let you make conversions."
A few examples:
"No one knows what Araby, Cathay or Nippon units would look like. Not even us." May I point to the esteemed author: http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=301059&orignav=300815&GameNav=300808? Kind of makes me feel like this is old and should have been rewritten.
Another:
"if you are going to sculpt, make sure you can do as good a job as the citadel team". Heh. I can point to some real stinkers that a mongoloid howler monkey could have made out of a pile of his own defication that had much better sculpting.
Anyway, this article rubbed me the wrong way.
I did like how the "news" section at least mentioned the non-core games. So thats a plus for me.

Wintermute
26-11-2007, 06:51
surely on a thread giving feedback about an issue of white dwarf, the fact that subscibers in the UK (ie the place where the company is actually is based) haven't even seen this months issue is 'on topic' what is actually in the wd (ie a free book ) is most definately 'on topic'

No it is not on topic, especially as I have already indicated there is already a thread discussing the Morrisons free BL book offer elsewhere on the site and posted a link to it.

The topic of this thread is the content of the current WD, not a special offer being offered in one country's supermarkets, neither is it to discuss if the issue has been posted on time to the subscribers of one country. These subjects are not really relevant to all the other countries/readers of this issue of WD and comments saying 'I haven't revceived my subscription copy yet' are just spam. If their is a problem with the distrubution of a WD in one country, it should be the subject of a separate thread.

Wintermute

Atrum Angelus
26-11-2007, 07:53
7

Was a pretty good read. I enjoyed the BR, especially the commentary. And as a new Tau player, I especially liked the new Datasheet in there for them. Gonna have to build a few I think. The painting articles and Golden Daemon stuff was good (I always like seeing the Golden Daemon stuff). The LOTR campaign stuff was cool. The WHF building conversions were also a treat. The "Mage Tower" was very cool.

I was suprised at the content however, as WD tends to follow a pattern of 40K, WHF, then LOTR. I would have thought this was going to be a LOTR's issue, but it turned out to be about equal between 40K and WHF. I have noticed a slow decline in LOTR stuff in WD and I wonder if this is going to be a trend.

natedogg710
27-11-2007, 01:37
I was suprised at the content however, as WD tends to follow a pattern of 40K, WHF, then LOTR. I would have thought this was going to be a LOTR's issue, but it turned out to be about equal between 40K and WHF. I have noticed a slow decline in LOTR stuff in WD and I wonder if this is going to be a trend.

WD doesn't quite follow a pattern like that. It may have seemed like that with the last few issues, however it isn't true. If there are new releases for a game coming out that month, then the issue is going to have more content towards that game.

This issue was mostly balanced because there wasn't any major army release coming out this month. Last month it was mostly Fantasy because of the High Elves release and the month before that it was mostly 40k because of Apocalypse.

I'm not sure why there was less LotR this month than in past issues. I don't play LotR but I do enjoy reading some of the content, so I hope they aren't reducing the amount of articles in WD.

Engulfer of Cakes
28-11-2007, 15:53
LOTR will be bigger when the Harad lot are released, which I guess will be in two months after the Orks get their WD...

Again, not exactly inspiring, though the GD stuff is arguably a step in the right direction, always like looking at highly worked on armies, and if they could bring them back, and get rid of the 'still' annoying Dwarf, then I'll find it a lot more entertaining...

In a side note, I noticed in the older WDs that there used to be some form of image on the page underneath the text and images on the majority of pages, perhaps this is why we are noticing the white spaces more clearly...

At least the New Releases adverts were short, though a double page spread for the same tank in different colours? Urgh...

5

Agrip. Varenus Denter
28-11-2007, 15:56
7 here. I'm kinda getting tired of having LoTR in the mag, even though this month the articles were overall interesting - to a fan of the genre but not a gamer of one. I enjoyed the GD article, Cities Shall Fall pt. II, and the castle bit most of all.

Thoth62
28-11-2007, 16:21
I've recieved mine, and after briefly glancing through it, I'm still a little unimpressed. I thought the fantasy terrain article was very good, as was the GD stuff. I really would like to see more of that though.
I've found more and more often, that I'm just skipping over the LotR articles, mostly because I've lost interest in the system all together. I haven't yet read the battle report, but I'm liking the bigger reports that they're doing in regards to apocalypse.

Decent issue, but as has been said more times than I can count, it needs more actual content. I don't really want to pay for a catalogue.

6

Lord Damocles
28-11-2007, 17:19
A 5 from me.

Pleasantly surprised to find that its not an advert-fest special for Christmas.

The Apoc battle report is Ok... but follows the classic 'imperium advances across barren field; lots of humans die - imperium makes combat; lots of Tau die' format :o.
The rest is not bad, (exept fot the editorial writen by a cartoon; and Jervis johnson taking three pages to remind me that orks have been ignored for the last decade but are now being redone).

Still nothing that takes more than five minutes to read through:(, and the minimum possible amount of fluff.

brother malthius
29-11-2007, 02:19
GW's pricing strategy in microcosm on page 6. One jet bike = 15 pounds, 3 jet bikes = 20 pounds WTF?

Its because their "price determination matrix" uses a D6. Granularity!



And what's that on Jervis's page about releasing the rules for Armageddon (board game) on http://www.games-workshop.co.uk/orks/? I can't find it.

Here you go, my good man:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/boardgames/default.htm

RevEv
29-11-2007, 07:59
This got a 5 from me - a rare occurance as the majority of recent WD have been improvements on last years (when I read August's edition in the space it took to order a pizza in a restaurant and the pizza turning up).

A typical 'Christmas' WD - equal billing to the three core games, little in the way of extra content. The article on painting the Baneblade has some useful tips in it I will use, and Jervis's 'Standard Bearer' is once again excellent.

Overall an average edition.

(As for the pricing anomoly firstly it is a character and secondly GW can make considerable savings on packaging by putting three models together).

Osbad
29-11-2007, 11:06
4 for me. The LotR campaign saved it for me, although it was the 3rd such LotR campaign GW have published to my knowledge (1 in WD, 1 in BGiME), so not really all that necessary. Still, at least it wasn't an advert or a list of models and their abilities, which is pretty much all we've had in recent months.

As for the rest, the Baneblade painting article seemed somewhat overblown, and the Gamesday photos went on forever showing pictures we've all seen months before on the interwebby... so again rather pointless. I liked the interview with the previous Slayer Sword winner. Probably for me the most interesting article of the month.

Bat Rep was a bit of a yawn. I am rapidly coming to the opinion that Apoc bat reps are always going to be a poor read. Simply put, with that much hardware on the table there is little opportunity for tactics (not that bat reps are full of that sort of thing at the best of time, but still...) and its all just one big turkey shoot. To be honest, the more I read about it the more I find Apoc completely unappealing. It's OK if you enjoy painting 9000 points of models and then removing them in bucketloads after every dice roll, but strategy and tactics take a back seat to sheer luck. Which may be fun to play for those who enjoy that kind of game, but sure makes for a tedious read.

All the usual caveats about the pointless repetitive adverts for the first couple of dozen pages, and the pointless repetitive crappy bit at the back also apply...

Osbad
29-11-2007, 11:11
And what's that on Jervis's page about releasing the rules for Armageddon (board game) on http://www.games-workshop.co.uk/orks/? I can't find it.


http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/boardgames/default.htm

For some reason the uS web team seem to get their **** in gear weeks before the dozy Brits...

Patriarch
29-11-2007, 12:39
4 /10
Batrep was OK, but would have liked more detail as to what was going on. Very difficult to see what "strategy"
Golden daemon stuff was very good, but photos could have been clearer (e.g. Carnifex).
Other than that, little of interest.

Tonberry
29-11-2007, 12:55
My oppinion, a 6.

Good points:

-Cool cover art that isn't just a copy and paste job from front page of newest shiney book they're trying to sell.

-Inclusion of full Datasheet for Tau Area Denial Nodes, something I hope will be a continuing trend rather than something that dies out because apocalypse isn't 'shiney' anymore.

-Apocalypse battle report(although written in clumsy, stumbling prose and containing ((imo)) aweful tactics ((firing baneblades and russ squadrons at Gun Drones etc)), contained a nicely painted non-studio Tau army, which I think deserved more attention that it got. I'm not quite sold on WD's take on photoshopping flyers into batrep's either 0.o Much better shots in this apocalypse report compared to the previous dodgy angles too.

-Some LotR stuff I didn't bother to read in detail as the system doesn't appeal to me, but the campaign rules and map seemed sound.

-Modular Movement Tray article seemed helpful, as I was initially bewildered when first looking at the packaged product as to how it would go together. But they still managed to sneak in some adverts for glue, sand and flock.:mad:

-GD article I liked, some beautifully painted models, though the picture angles could be better to show more of the model off.

-The small section in the Baneblade article titled 'Get into the groove' - a useful technique I hadn't heard of, tried and tested by myself with positive results.:D

-Dragon painting article I felt was pretty solid, nothing special though, at least it was all in English this time.

-I liked the picture on the back:D.

Bad points:

-Pointless opening messege from 'Grombrindal', the contents of which is much better explained in the contents list opposite.

-5 pages of New releases, followed by an advert, another New release page, followed by another advert, 2 more New release pages/adverts from FW. Followed by some adverts for video games and WD subscriptions, cunningly disguised as 'news'.

-Bat.rep cunningly followed by yet another advert, 'Welcome to Wargaming'....Touche Games Workshop, touche.

-LotR campaign bit slyly followed by another advert, what happened to the good old days of WD 180> where the adverts included discount vouchers?

-Standard bearer deviating from an informative read into GW happenings etc in previous issues to a cunningly disguised advert for shiney new Orks....

-Parts 2 and 3 of Apocalypse campaign seem pretty much the same as part 1, and the special rules are things which could easily be thought up by a group of gamers in a few minutes.

-The painting masterclass, whilst showing some pretty models, contained mostly models which have already been shown in WD in the past.

-The majority of the baneblade article - 8 pages on how to paint a tank that have already been shown in WD, just on a smaller tank....Give us something original like airbrush tips please, I know it may seem like an alien concept to GW, but the majority of people are able to simply copy the colour scheme from the box....

-The modelling workshop, whilst showcasing some ingenious use of parts, was quite useless for anyone trying to replicate the buildings, as only the front angle is shown, and the WIP shots are just unpainted rather than WIP.

-Last few pages are just adverts in the guise of 'gift ideas'. Advance order page I find useful but imo should be at the front of the mag.


Appologies for the wall o'text, just my 0.02 of your chosen currency.

Finn Sourscowl
29-11-2007, 17:59
A solid 6 from me.

Liked the modelling articles and interviews with Painters. Haven't got round to reading the bat rep, but I'm sure it'll pass 10 minutes or so in a vaguley interesting way... That said, I do agree with Osbad, though, about Apoc bat reps being a little difficult to get your teeth into.

Has been enjoyable, so far. My only critisisim, and I can't be bothered to check if it actually is, is that it feels lighter than previous WDs... possibly because they haven't stuffed it full of adverts since there's no big release this month.

Wintermute
29-11-2007, 18:28
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/boardgames/default.htm

For some reason the uS web team seem to get their **** in gear weeks before the dozy Brits...

Only because WD is published two weeks earlier in the US than it is in the UK (which is why I post this thread in the middle of the month :p)

Khorghan
01-12-2007, 20:00
Gave it a 5,

i enjoyed the golden deamon article and the fantasy terrain article,

unfortunatly nothing else i really found interesting... i miss the old WDs

ankara halla
01-12-2007, 21:15
On a scale of 1-10, with a 5 being average, this issue netted a 4

The batrep was incredibly meh... very little text to the actual going ons in the table (and no word at all as to why decision were made) with very few, but ******* huge, pictures taking most of the space. Again, a real let down.

The Campaign was kinda ok, but nothing I'll ever look at again after having read it thru once (much like the rest of the mag, makes me glad I didn't buy it...).

Dragon painting was nothing new, wasn't it basically the exact same article they've been publishing over and over again with a different mini-of-the-month? I could swear I've seen such articles at least a half a dozen times in the past year or so.

LORT campaing, seemed cool for people who actually play it. I don't so I can't really say.

GD, same old, same old. Beautiful minis though so it wasn't a waste of space. Too bad there weren't more of them since IMO it was the best article in the mag by far.

Modelling workshop, why are there two painting guides? Both, while different, giving nothing new that hasn't been seen before...

Standard bearer, I've actually kinda liked these. The ones I've read before this that is. There seemed to be no context or coherent point here whatsoever. Just a hype for the upcoming orks. Isn't that what the rest of the magazine (well, the 70% of it that's dedicated to poromotion and advertising...) is supposed to be for?

In summarum, really weak.

Rossco
01-12-2007, 21:56
This is the first time I've posted in a WD feedback thread, generally I get my WD, read it, grumble a little about how much better it was "when I was a lad" but enjoy it nonetheless.
This month was different, for me this was possibly the least enjoyable WD ever, I'm not saying there was nothing of merit, just that there was little. I feel less and less like I buy a magazine about a complete hobby, it geuinely left me wanting this month and thats why I gave it 3

dancingmonkey
03-12-2007, 12:08
I have to say I enjoyed this more than any issue for a while. Stll felt empty,but what there was was better.
Voted 5...

The lack of releases was quite refreshing after the apocalypse rebox frenzy of the last few months.

Batt rep was fairly interesting, but still not enough detail.
Painting guides were good, pity we didn't get componant list for dragon though, Im actually starting to enjoy them!
LOTR was ok, content has been going down steadily, but still gets a brierf read. Interesting preview, yes they are scraping the barrel, but at least the game is getting variety and change, unlike WH. If only they would do proper rules for units I might actually play it.

The Golden Demon stuff was good, now we just need how to's from the various winners.

I really liked the cover this month. Don't know why but I thought it was a bit classier than ususal.

Scionscion
03-12-2007, 12:31
What a great issue! A fine read all round! Super articles - awesome battle rep and good LOTR features (good to know that GW is continuing to back this very successful system). Golden Demon models illustrate just how popular GW is around the world - no other games company inspires (or recognises) such talent in its fans! And a damn good Standard Bearer this month as well!

All in all a splendid issue - more of the same please GW!

Hlokk
03-12-2007, 16:00
2 words sum up this issue:

"oh dear"

Not a big fan of it at all. I looked through the news section and thought "isn't there anything cool coming out this month?"

The good:

GD articles were great, although perhaps 2/3 small pictures of other things they'd painted would have been good.
Area denial node datafax


the bad:

Battle report. If your going to have that many points, don't take up 3/4 of your space with a big picture of models.
Dragon painting guide: Useful for some, I'll admit, but where was the advice for painting mages or dragons of different colours?
Baneblade guide: Essentially a bog standard paint an IG tank guide, but done on a big tank. Where were the hints on customising the baneblade?


The ugly:

LotR article: If your going to support a game, at least have a couple of different articles on it. And has anyone else noticed the habit GW have of just taking up pages randomly printing army lists and showing pictures of them?
Welcome to the hobby? Why is it even in there, it should be done as one of those leaflets you pull out, rather than taking up space.
apoc campain: Why not give us some background or a resolution as to how things turned out in the "official" version? And was it just me, or was there very little innovation in those scenarios?


Not as good as last issues by a long way.

Mr Feral
03-12-2007, 16:52
I'l keep this brief.

The Good
LOTR preview - I've seen these already but those Mahud are damn nice sculpts.
Painting Masters - Nice conversions, especially the mounted Ork.
Golden Daemon - Didn't read the beginning text (seems like a copy and paste job to me..) but inspiring pieces in there.
Warhammer Buildings Modelling Class - These are very nice, espcially the Orc Watchtower.

The Bad
Apoc bat rep - Too brief, although nice non-Studio Tau army.
Standard Bearer - Again too brief, no new information.
Cities Shall Fall (part 2) - OK
Toolbox - Too simple, I could of worked how to do these myself.
HE Dragon Modelling Workshop: Don't really like HE.

The Ugly
New Releases - No thank you
News (except LOTR preview) - Nothing actually new, it seems to be just advertisements to me especially the WD subscription box (The over-enthusiastic GW staff member who served me when I got this issue called me "insane" for not getting one of these, right....)

For my vote I give it a 4. I hope next ssue will be better with the Ork releases.

ps. Note to GW, put more hobby tips and gamer's armies in WD.

madden
03-12-2007, 19:16
Voted it a 6 as it seemed thin to me and a bit short on articals(?)battle rep was ok but a more top down veiw would have been better, there also seemed less ads this month so not bad over all.

snurl
04-12-2007, 08:25
I gave it a 7 which was probably high but it was a bit better than the last few issues. I liked the Fantasy buildings article and the painting articles, but the battle report was a bit hard to follow, the older style was better.

Stella Cadente
04-12-2007, 11:11
tch, I spend Half an hour posting how rubbish WD was this month, and it doesn't even appear

well I did say it gets a 2 from me, because (in short terms) IN WAS RUBBISH
there was almost NOTHING in this....toilet paper of a magazine that was even close to interesting, a complete and utter waste of 4, and I would suggest nobody wastes there money on it

psyberwyche
04-12-2007, 12:40
I gave WD a good review last issue, and this one is even better. All the articles are worth reading in depth, there are very few adverts, the modelling workshop is good, the LOTR article has new rules in it, the Dragon article has new fluff in it (pretty good story actually), and the cover is a piece of art I've never seen before.

All in all, this issue has everything we've been asking for. So for the second month in a row I can't personally understand the hate messages.

Osbad
05-12-2007, 08:08
All the articles are worth reading in depth

How can a two paragraph article ever require "in depth" reading? In the "good old days" articles used to be 3 or 4 pages long with few breaks in the text. That is what an "in depth" read is. Not the lightweight throwaway garbage that masquerades for an article these days.

There my friend is my answer to the following:


All in all, this issue has everything we've been asking for. So for the second month in a row I can't personally understand the hate messages.

I have been asking for something with more than half a dozen words in it and I haven't got it. Hence my bitter wrath.

Jedi152
05-12-2007, 08:26
It's on the up turn, but i honestly wouldn't have brought this issue if it didn't have a free novel on the front.

The highlight for me is the fantasy modelling article. The GD article was good, but had no painting tips from the guy, and again just highlights the fact that in the majority GD is a sculptors competition (good to see a relatively untouched model get the sword this year though). Baneblade article is passable, but why not do an article on customising the kit?

Apocalypse batrep is not too bad, but it's essentially describing a battle scene from a movie again - barely any tactics other than charge/shoot. Lovely Tau army featured (and i've seen it at WW so a can vouch for the fact it's lovely) but again no description of the colours used or anything.

Dragon painting article is good, it's always good to know how 'Eavy Metal stuff is painted.

Standard Bearer makes a nice read, but just makes me sad that my mum chucked out half of my WAAAGH Orks! :cries:

I'm still not a fan of Grombrindal. I know it's designed for younger gamers, but can't we just have a note from the Editor? At least Guy Haley told us what he was up to that month.

psyberwyche
05-12-2007, 12:17
@Osbad - I think you've exaggerated your claims wildly for comedic effect. Bending the truth cannot provide the answer to the question! Show me the article in this issue with only two paragraphs, or fewer than 6 words, and I'll take your point.

@Jedi152 - but Guy Haley WAS Grombrindal!

BigRob
05-12-2007, 12:28
Ok,

Angry about the free novel bit, there isnt even a morrisons near where I live!

The issue was interesting, 6 out of 10 this month.

Editorial and New Releases:
Editorial....cartoon dwarf saying go buy stuff....hmmm:eyebrows:
Almost nothing was released this month?! Shorter than it has been, which is better.

The battle report:
Tau Area Denial Nodes and terrain board look Interesting and fun, but where was the modelling tutorial? How did they make this awesome terrain? Nice to see some non studio models (and Ian Strickland, didnt he have long hair and big glassess last time he was in white dwarf?). Better photos this time, but still a crippling lack of text(did the tau fliers do anything? I didnt even see them on the board).

Middle Earth in flames:
Short campaigny type thing, allready been done several times in white dwarf over the years its supported LOtR, nothing new or particualry exciting although the previews of harad were good.

Standard Bearer
Oh dear, a short article on why you should buy Orks and they are giving away a game for free...that is allready being given away for free... why not give away PDFs of "Ere we go", "Freebooterz" and "waaagh the orks"? Jervis says they are the ultimate books and hey, it'd stop those ebay stores ripping us off.

Cities shall fall
No special characters or rules, just a couple of scenarios....so a bit like MEdusa V then!

Painting Masters and Golden Deamon
Finally some pictures that are worth looking at. Excellent articles although, it seems to me that if you want to win Golden DEamon you have to be a sculpter not a painter. Most winning enteries seemed to be 54mm sculpts. At the start the Alan Merret goes on about how enteries based on things that dont have offcial models (like cathay) will NEVER win, because they dont have offical models....when did GW start making all these 54mm fantasy models? At least its not the old boys club anymore (remember when it was the same names every year!)

Painting tutorials
And finally....The tutorials are ok, the watchtower one is by far the better, with the baneblade tutorial comming last. These articles are the kind of hobby stuff WD should have as standard and its nice to see 3 in one issue.

At the back is the usual padding and junk lists. Bin them! and replace with hobby content. That space could hold a couple of Specialist Games articles?!

Osbad
05-12-2007, 13:41
@Osbad - I think you've exaggerated your claims wildly for comedic effect. Bending the truth cannot provide the answer to the question! Show me the article in this issue with only two paragraphs, or fewer than 6 words, and I'll take your point.


Oh absolutely, I was entirely being sarcastic. But the point still stands. The current dwarf has "light weight" articles. Ones that are easy to skim read and instantly forgettable. A few such articles in a periodical is entirely justifiable. An entire magazine made up of such articles is not (in my opinion).

Now, back in the era immediately post-issue 316, Owen Rees was challenged about this very issue - the increase in volume of pictures and reduction in length and complexity of text. His response at the time was that it was a deliberate change to reflect the wishes of the readership at large who wanted "less complicated articles".

I, out of sheer bloody-mindedness rather than anything else, just like to keep banging home the point that not all WD-readers found the old-style articles too challenging, and that some of us do not appreciate the "dumbing down" of the magazine.

Yes the articles had more than 6 words or 2 paragraphs, but EVERY SINGLE ONE had fewer words and paragraphs and more photo-art than they would have done "in the good old days".

I cancelled my sub in issue 319 because Dwarf-lite wasn't to my taste. I restarted it because I got a really, really good deal on price with issue 330 (makes my effective price per copy 97p), so I don't have to have a massively positive view of the magazine to be worth the price I paid for it, but I do still have some. I voted a "4" which translates as being "not worth the cover price but not hopeless". In otherwords I think it was worth at least 97p, but not 4. To make it worth 4 again to me, it would have to contain articles that contained more actual reading material in the main.

Luckywallace
08-12-2007, 09:07
Gave it a 2 score, but on reflection a bit harsh.

Painting articles didn't do anything for me (I'm not great painter at all, but as a 10-year vet there was nothing there I had not heard before or was not obvious).

40k and LOTR campaigns did not seem too exciting.

Only real good points were the Golden Deamon (though the entries were quite "spread out" as if fighting to fill the space up). The 40k Battle Report looked good and the Tau army was nice, but it was written-up terribly. A far. far cry from the good battle reports of old, or even the Chaos V Imperial one of a few issues ago.

Standard Bearer was average. I'm a huge Ork fan so this was a nice read, but nothing too insightful from JJ...

Maybe a 4 would have been fairer. Still a step down after the last few issues.

andyfair
10-12-2007, 10:37
Not a bad issue and I may be in a minority but I still think WD is better than it was 3 years ago.

I enjoy the showcasing of new releases and the fact that the hobby doesn't seem as far up itself as it did a few years ago. Super photography as ever.

I agree there is a market for a publication for advanced gamers but it shouldn't be WD, which is the shop window to GW.

My main gripe remains the page cut to 122.

violenceha
10-12-2007, 20:01
4 from me. I can definately say this is not what I want from White Dwarf.
These apocalypse bat reps are almost pointless, if the battles are too big to write a detailed version of what happened then why bother?
Golden Deamon stuff, apparently the flavour of the month is to recreate crap you saw air brushed on some dude's van in the eighties. Surely not looking completely out of place on the tabletop should be part of the judging criteria? I much prefered army showcases and will continue to complain until they return, after all, the point of the hobby is to paint and collect them. Frontlines once again given too much space in the mag, fair enough it's supporting the indy's but surely there a better way?

mattjgilbert
11-12-2007, 10:13
6 from me and that's because of the Fantasy Terrain article which was great.

Standard Bearer... just an advert for the orks really.

Battle Report - proving once again that GW don't know their own rules. Mephiston's tank gets blown up in turn 1 before it gets a chance to move. In the Imperial turn, they completely ignore the fact he is entangled and cannot move at all and he proceeds to make some olympic movement to not only leave the wreckage but also cross the whole of no-mans land and into the Tau compound in a single turn. Then gets man of the match. Rubbish!

jimbobodoll
12-12-2007, 02:27
Battle Report - proving once again that GW don't know their own rules. Mephiston's tank gets blown up in turn 1 before it gets a chance to move. In the Imperial turn, they completely ignore the fact he is entangled and cannot move at all and he proceeds to make some olympic movement to not only leave the wreckage but also cross the whole of no-mans land and into the Tau compound in a single turn. Then gets man of the match. Rubbish!

Here here! Games Workshop are so unbelievably dire when it comes to White Dwarf of late. I mean where is the quality control? A CARTOON CANNOT BE THE EDITOR! Hire a human being, pay them, and actually get them to check the articles... "Hey guys, you made a rules blunder here... oh and here... Oh and while your on your feet, don't print pages in the English White Dwarf in Italian, and make sure everyone gets a free book eh?"

For criss-sakes... *super grump*
The magazine posing as White Dwarf gets a 2 from me. Let it be a fair warning for those of you thinking of returning to it. The golden days have not returned....

Forbiddenknowledge
13-12-2007, 12:55
The battle report ruined it for me, it was a complete sham. First, it appeared that the Tau players actually know nothing about Tau strategies, which I am certain is not true, but they didn't seem to implement anything of tactical thinking through it. Also, when the Codex Author himself is sitting there claiming (paraphrased) "Tau do not do well moving up and taking objectives" you have to wonder if the Tau had any chance in the batrep at all.
The Tau army looked purdy, but the studio one suffered yet again from using what lays around, instead of an effective army.

It really lost points when it was revealed on at least two occasions that the players do not even know the rules for the game they are playing - the ADN repairing its weapon (not shrugging off - it does not have primary weapon special rule) and firing in the same turn, and Mephiston charging out of a destroyed vehicle. Its stuff like this that can ruin an already poor battle report.

In the hands of competant commanders/people who are not slated to lose to showcase the newest army, it might have been a good read, but as it was, it was 10 odd pages of "Look! BA slaughter Tau easily!" whilst the tau army seemed to forget how to fight like Tau.

A real disappointment.

The dragon article was nice, mainly carried by the gorgeousness of the model, and the rest of the magazine was passable, but not something I would shell out actual money for. I probably wouldn't waste forged money on it either *rolls eyes*

Jedi152
13-12-2007, 13:02
I'll just point out that since my first review, i haven't even picked this issue up again. I have, however, read WD194 fully several times since i found it lying around at my mum and dads! :D

Crube
13-12-2007, 18:50
No free novel for the subscribers... :mad:

Still, a reaosnable issue, enjoyed the articles, althogh a little short... Good painting article on the dragon....

6 for me...

dean
13-12-2007, 19:29
My first WD purchase since 308...

4

Good:
Terrain articles: The WFB buildings were not step by step that a new modeller would like but gave enough info that someone could reproduce the buildings.
Golden Daemon articles (US covered GDLA as well as the worldwide GD winners)
2nd half of Apoc scenario... (wish I had the first part)

Bad:
Tons of white space (it makes the pics look lonely.)
A long (:rolleyes:) apoc bat rep that had Zero tactical content and no commentary besides the play by play.
The catalog was 10 pages of minis that could have been on 3 (see white space comment)


Other
All the LotR content.. I have no opinion and thus cannot comment.

I am glad that my FLGS went under and forced me to stop buying this. I would be upset if I had a subscription. Model Railroader (that I get for terrain) at a simillar page count (well a little bigger) and price has a load more articles and even the how to articles are 6 pages max with tons of text and picts. Yes fine, apples and oranges... Model Railroader is an independent with tons of advertisers and staff, not a company magazine but WD is a very pale shadow of MR.

cailus
17-12-2007, 02:55
How can a two paragraph article ever require "in depth" reading? In the "good old days" articles used to be 3 or 4 pages long with few breaks in the text. That is what an "in depth" read is. Not the lightweight throwaway garbage that masquerades for an article these days.

There my friend is my answer to the following:



I have been asking for something with more than half a dozen words in it and I haven't got it. Hence my bitter wrath.

I totally agree.

I gave this one a 3 for the Area Denial Node. However there is simply nothing left to read it the WD. THere are no cool fluff articles, no crazy army lists and even things such as Battle Reports are very quick and lifeless reads indeed.

Getifa Ubazza
17-12-2007, 14:07
I gave this one an 8. Although most of it wasnt really of interest to me. I did feel it is getting better. The reason for such a high score, is purely down the the great piece by Jervis, about Da Orks.

kenny3760
23-12-2007, 13:01
Not overly impressed by this one.

Not interested in LOTR's stuff, never bought it, never will.
Battle report was bland and uninvolving and as others have noted rules were broken/ignored, again.
Standard Bearer, how can one man talk for so long and tell us absolutely nothing, I know orks are green and they are being re-invented next year.
GD article was good. I really like to see top models like this. It would be better if they got some of these guys to do masterclasses on how they created these models
Painting the baneblade was ok but nothing special
High elf dragon article was good overall, nice bit of insight and a solid paintjob
Adverts, adverts,adverts
List of stores, do we really need this every month

Codsticker
31-12-2007, 05:07
A little late to join this but...

I gave it a 5 mostly due to the Golden Daemon winners article. I thought, perhaps, all I needed was some time to come to accept the "new" bat-reps, but I was mistaken. They are so condensed as to make them completely uninteresting. Not to mention the horribly busy visuals of them. Although I have only played the game a few times I usually enjoy the LoTR articles but they must have been pretty drab as I can't recall what they were about in the least.