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Stezerok
16-11-2007, 02:46
so my friend just told me about some rule for Kouran of the Black Guard, and his armor. Apparently his Armor of Meteoric Iron says that he has a 1+ save that cannot be improved in any way. Now he says that because it just says save, it is neither an armor nor a ward save. Normally I would agree, but 1+ seems a bit ridiculous with such an idea. Is there some clarification or someone who knows what is really intended by this? thanks for your time!

xeolx
16-11-2007, 03:37
Well it is the ARMOR of Meteoric Iron, so I would imagine it gives a 1+ Armor save. A 1+ ward save would simply be ridiculous!

Jonke
16-11-2007, 04:26
There are two types of saves in this game. Armour saves and ward saves. If it doesn't say it's a ward save it's an armour save.

Stezerok
16-11-2007, 05:17
There are two types of saves in this game. Armour saves and ward saves. If it doesn't say it's a ward save it's an armour save.

Is that really a legitimate ruling? I just have to ask considering Orks in 40k get a 6+ save on their vehicles. Which is neither an armor, invulnerable or cover save. Its just a save lol. But I guess Orks are funny like that...

Jonke
16-11-2007, 05:21
Is that really a legitimate ruling? I just have to ask considering Orks in 40k get a 6+ save on their vehicles. Which is neither an armor, invulnerable or cover save. Its just a save lol. But I guess Orks are funny like that...

Vehicles doesn't have saves in 40k, so in a special case where a vehichle does have a save then it is of course neither an armour save nor an invulnerable save.

Defender of Ulthuan
16-11-2007, 20:41
Largest Ward Save you can have is 2+, and armour is, well, it can get pretty rediculous, but it's no doubt an armour save.

Griefbringer
16-11-2007, 21:36
Apparently his Armor of Meteoric Iron says that he has a 1+ save that cannot be improved in any way. Now he says that because it just says save, it is neither an armor nor a ward save.

I guess you could counter this by pointing out by claiming the rulebook only allows armour and ward saves to be taken against attacks - meaning that his 1+ non-armour and non-ward save would be pretty useless. :evilgrin:

And 40K ork vehicle rules do not really count as precedence in WHFB.

txamil
16-11-2007, 22:39
what has the 2+ ward save?

sabre4190
17-11-2007, 00:11
It can be assumed that its a 1+ save. I would love to find the player who says otherwise.

Stezerok
17-11-2007, 00:58
what has the 2+ ward save?

Malekith. God I can't believe people complain about him being bad... I mean he kills my magic items, and then I find out that he has a 2+ ward... Jesus...

T10
17-11-2007, 10:46
There are two types of saves in this game. Armour saves and ward saves. If it doesn't say it's a ward save it's an armour save.

By process of elimination, I would lean (heavily) towards it being an armour save:

- A 1+ ward save is (as pointed out) ridiculous. It's the same as a 2+ ward save since a 1 will always fail anyway.
- Ward saves cannot be modified, so stating that the save cannot be improved is as superfluous as stating that you must roll to hit with a weapon.
- 'The Armour of Meteroric Iron' is not 'The Ward of Meteoric Iron'. It is an armour. If the 1+ is the Ward save, what is it's armour save?

-T10

eldrak
18-11-2007, 11:32
- Ward saves cannot be modified, so stating that the save cannot be improved is as superfluous as stating that you must roll to hit with a weapon.
Not true, in the SoC DL lists you can find a few things that improves their wardsaves.

Arnizipal
18-11-2007, 16:44
Malekith. God I can't believe people complain about him being bad... I mean he kills my magic items, and then I find out that he has a 2+ ward... Jesus...
Last time my brother fielded him Malekith got fried by a D6 S4 hit spell in the first turn. His 2+ ward does nothing against magic (or magical items). That's why people complain about him.

theunwantedbeing
18-11-2007, 16:48
Exactly Arnzipal.
Plus he doesnt get to pick which magic item he destroys with his sword, so if your opponent picks armour or simply charges him with a magic weapon then he's screwed.
Killing a t3 ws8 3 wound dude isnt that difficult when he only gets a 5+ armour save and thats before you factor in strength modifiers.

Stezerok
18-11-2007, 17:52
Exactly Arnzipal.
Plus he doesnt get to pick which magic item he destroys with his sword, so if your opponent picks armour or simply charges him with a magic weapon then he's screwed.
Killing a t3 ws8 3 wound dude isnt that difficult when he only gets a 5+ armour save and thats before you factor in strength modifiers.

huh. Well I guess cheating against an opponent who doesn't know the rules for him would make him a lot better lol. Maybe he does need to be revised...

theunwantedbeing
18-11-2007, 18:12
LOL
Not surprised the guy cheated with him....for what he costs he is annoyingly easy to remove.

chivalrous
18-11-2007, 18:34
Malekith. God I can't believe people complain about him being bad... I mean he kills my magic items, and then I find out that he has a 2+ ward... Jesus...

In addition to all that has been said already, he can only destroy magic weapons and magic armour. meaning that ward save giving talisman or enchanted item an opponent is carrying is perfectly safe.