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Angelripper
12-09-2005, 23:49
I'm a huge fan of antiquity and what I miss in Warhammer is a good old Humanbased army of antiquity. (I know WAB is out there :D )

Anyway tired of complaining that my roman and greek figures lacks work because WAB isn't very popular in my neighborhood (I don't know anyone else and I asked around a lot).
So I came up with this list. To me it sounds quite fluffy and balanced but thats natural, after all I created it. Enough words, heres the list.
Feel free to tear it apart and smash my dream of becoming a famous estalian General. :cries:

By the way I choose Estalia because it sounds rough and wild (at least in the german translation of the Core Rule book), never very friendly to outsiders and so maybe a bit untouched by the marvelous wonders of the "blackpowder" Empire, the "chivalric" Bretonians or the "moneyloving" Tileans.


Here we go then

Core Units
Reman Legionaires
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Legionaire 4 4 3 3 3 1 3 1 8 11
Optio 4 4 3 3 3 1 3 2 8
Unit Size 10+
Equipment Hand weapon shield light armour throwing spears
Options May upgrade a Legionaire to Optio (+10 pts) a Standard bearer (+10 pts) and a musician (+5 pts)
Special rule Tortoise formation (Unit may form the tortoise formation and gain+1 armoursave
they cannot march or attack while in tortoise formation, if attacked they reform to standardformation automatically with no Tortoise save benefit at all

Sagitaires
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Sagitaires 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 8
Optio 4 3 4 3 3 1 3 1 7
Unit Size 10 to 20
Equipment Bow and hand weapon
Options upgrade one Sagitaire to Optio (+5 pts)
Special rule Skirmishers

Auxilia
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Auxilia 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 6
Optio 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 2 7
Unit Size 10+
Equipment Hand weapon, light armour,
Options may equipped with shields (+1 pts) Spear (+2pts)
May upgrade an Auxilia to Optio (+10 pts) a Standard bearer (+10 pts) and a musician (+5 pts) may be upgraded to skirmisher at (+2pts/modell)

Equites
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Equites 4 4 3 3 3 1 3 1 8 15
Optio 4 4 3 3 3 1 3 2 8
Horse 8 3 0 3 3 1 3 1 5
Unit Size 5+
Equipment Hand Weapon
Options May have spear (+1pts) bow (+4pts) and/or shield (+2 pts)
May upgrade one equites to Optio (+7 Pts)
Special Rule: fast cavalry

Special
War Chariot
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Chariot - - - 5 5 4 - - - 100
Charioteer 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 8
Warhorse 8 3 0 3 3 1 3 1 5
Unit Size 1
Equipment Hand Weapon Scythed Wheels may take 2 additional Horses (+7pts)
Armour Save 4+
Special Rule Chariot
2 Chariots Counts as one Entry in the Force Organisation Chart

Reman Phalanx
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Hoplite 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 17
Hoplite 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 2 7
Unit Size 10+
Equipment Hand weapon, light armour shield and pike may have heavy armour (+1pt)
May upgrade a hoplite to Champion (+10 pts) a Standard bearer (+10 pts)
and a musician (+5 pts)
Special rule Shieldwall (allows unit to use their shields against missile attacks, no use in CC)
Stubborn

Reman Knights
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Knight 4 4 3 3 3 1 3 1 8 19
Captain 4 4 3 3 3 1 3 2 8
Horse 8 3 0 3 3 1 3 1 5
Unit Size 5+
Equipment Hand weapon Lance heavy armour and shield
Options May upgrade one Knight to Chieftain (+15 pts) standard bearer (+15 pts) and Musician (+8 pts)
May upgrade one unit to Knights of Legend (3 pts) gain Strenght 4

Barbarian Tribes
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Barbarian 4 4 3 3 3 1 4 1 7 8
Chieftain 4 4 3 3 3 1 4 1 7
Unit Size 10+
Equipment Hand weapon light armour
Options May have shield (+1 pts) additional hand weapon (+2 pts) great weapons (+2pts) or spears (+2pts)
May upgrade a Barbarian to Chieftain (+10 pts) a Standard bearer (+10 pts)
and a musician (+5 pts)
Special rule Frenzy

Reman Slingers
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Slinger 4 3 4 3 3 1 3 1 7 13
Chieftain 4 3 5 3 3 1 3 1 7
Unit Site 10+
Equipment Hand weapon light armour Slings
Options May have shields (+1pts)
upgrade one Slinger to Chieftain (+5 pts)
Special Rule Stealthy (additional - 1 to hit) Skirmishers

Cyclops
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Cyclops 7 3 3 5 4 3 3 3 7 50
Old One 7 3 3 5 4 3 3 4 7
Unit Site 3+
Equipment Hand Weapon light Armour
Options May have shields (+1pts) great weapon (+6 pt) additional handweapon (+4 pts)
heavy Armour (+3 pts)
May upgrade a Cyclops to Old One (+20 pts)
Special rules Fear, Immune to psychology, stupidity

Rare
Praetorian Guard 0 to 1
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Praetorian 4 5 4 3 3 1 3 1 9 18
Optio 4 5 4 3 3 1 3 2 9
Unit size 10+
Equipment Hand weapon heavy armour shield throwing spear
Options May upgrade a Praetorian to Optio (+10 pts) a Standard bearer (+10 pts)and a musician (+5 pts)
Special Rule Unbreakable

Repeating Ballistas
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Ballista - - - - 7 3 - - - 100
Crew 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 3 7
Crew Size 2
Unit Size 1
Equipment Hand weapon light armour
Special rule Repeter Bolt thrower
2 RBTs count as 1 choice

Onager
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Onager - - - - 7 3 - - - 85
Crew 4 3 4 3 3 1 3 3 7
Crew 3
Equipment Hand weapon light armour
Special Rule Stonethrower

Titan
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Titan 7 6 3 5 5 6 4 5 9 450
Unit Size 1
Equiptment: Heavens Armour (4+ can cast spells) Hand Weapon
Options: May have additional Hand weapon (+6 pts) greatweapon (+8 pts)
May have Shield (+6 pts)
Special Rule Descendent from the gods (knows forked Lightning, Uranons Thunderbolt Storm of Chronos He counts as a lvl 3 Wizards but uses only theese three spells)
Terror, Immune to psychology Large Target Unit Strength: 6
Counts as 1 Rare & 1 Special Choice

Lords
Consul
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Consul 4 5 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 85
Equipment Hand weapon throwing spear
Options May have Spear (3 pts) Lance (6 Pts) Bow (10 pts)
lights armour (3 Pts) heavy Armour (6Pts) shield (3 pts)
May Ride a Warhorse (+15 Pts) a Pegasus (+50pts) Chariots which is bought of the normal unit entry at same costs
May choose Magic items to a maximum of 100 points

Tribun
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Tribun 4 6 3 4 4 3 6 4 9 150
Equipment Hand Weapon Heavy Armour Shild Throwing Spear
Options May have Spear (3 pts) Lance (6 Pts) Bow (10 pts)
May Ride a Warhorse (+15 Pts) a Pegasus (+50pts)
May choose magic Items to a maximum of 100 pts

Highpriest
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Highpriest 4 3 3 3 4 3 3 1 8 175
Weapons Handweapon
Magic: A Highpriest is a lvl 3 Wizard he may Choose one of the following lores
Fire Metal Shadow Beasts Heavens Light Life Death
Options May be upgraded to lvl 4 (+35 pts)
May Ride a Warhorse (+15 Pts) a Pegasus (+50pts)
May choose magic Items to a maximum of 100 pts

Heros
Centurion
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Centurion 4 5 5 4 4 2 5 3 8 55
Weapons Hand weapon throwing spear
may have Spear (+pts) lance (4pts) additional Hand weapon (2pts)
May have a Bow (6 pts)
May have light armour (2Pts) Heavy Armour (4Pts) shield(2Pts)
May Ride a Warhorse (+15 Pts) a Pegasus (+50pts)
May choose Magical Items to a maximum of 50 pts

Priest
M WS BS S T W I A LD Points
Priest 4 3 3 3 3 2 3 1 7 60
Equipment Hand weapon
Magic A Priest is a lvl 1 Wizard he may Choose one of the following lores
Fire Metal Shadow Beasts Heavens Light Life Death
Options may be upgraded to lvl 2 (35pts)
May ride a Warhorse (10 pts)
May choose Magical Items to a maximum of 50 pts

*edited last 09/10/05 Auxilia, Chariot and Legionaires entry*

Kensai X
13-09-2005, 00:13
The Armies of Antiquity come from Remas, Tilea...Estalia is like New World Expansion Spanish...

Hideous Loon
13-09-2005, 11:02
Still, the idea is fairly good, don't you think? It's like an Empire list with flavour.

Angelripper
21-09-2005, 21:23
The Armies of Antiquity come from Remas, Tilea...Estalia is like New World Expansion Spanish...

Remas? Obviously GWs Rome, but I thought as Remas is in Tilea the Forces would have evolved into the standard Tilean DoW Army. So I placed my ancients into the rough Estalia.
As said above I had not realy much Backround from Estalia except that it's rough, wild und unfriendly to anyone outside.
On the other Hand after Gaius Marius reforms the Roman Legion was a professional Army with paid Soldiers instead of Citizens put into Armour they have to pay for themself. So Tilea might fit quite well.

What about me declaring Remas into an independent City-state and replace the Estalians into Remas?

RGB
22-09-2005, 01:53
The Republic of Remas IS an independent city state. Like all Tilean cities.

Angelripper
23-09-2005, 19:14
The Republic of Remas IS an independent city state. Like all Tilean cities.

Then it's done, Estalians are now Remans!
So what about the List? I built it mixing DoW and Empire, adding a few ideas from Chaos. Anyone seeing possibilities for cheese? I tried to avoid that but something probably slipped through...

The n00B
05-10-2005, 11:47
i like how you have done this. always wanted to to it my own but lacks time to do so. i try them out if you don't mind

polymphus
08-10-2005, 04:36
One question. Why do all the core troops have WS4? they're not all elite troopers. It kinda makes snese for legionaries but auxilla should probably be WS3 and if you want to go fluffy (but weak) I'd say WS2 (since IIRC they're just untrained humans given some armour and a spear)

Angelripper
08-10-2005, 16:29
Ah finally someone with a bit of criticism. Very welcome here.
The Auxilia was trained alongside Legionaires but truely not in the exact same manner. So I set the WS 4 down to 3. I don't go to 2 because of the historical backround of Roman Auxilias which were recruited from conquered Foes. Germans, Gauls and Iberians spring to my mind and these Native Warriors were good fighters, they were propably just trained to be more disciplined. So the Auxilias WS went down to 3. The Charioteer goes down to 3 too but the Equites derseves the 4 because they are just Legionaires who are put on a Horse.
Are there more Flaws you can detect?

Outcast995
08-10-2005, 16:52
one thoughyt mabye give the auxilia the ability to skirmish, other then thta i like it,... alot may even use it once or twice.

Angelripper
08-10-2005, 20:11
I think the Auxilia fights as standard R&F Unit. To represent the fact that they have learned something from the ones who conquered them. So what about the option to skirmish like bretonian Archers? Maybe for fresh recruited ones who hasn't completed their training yet? I'm not sure about the points for this, any suggestions?

polymphus
09-10-2005, 08:57
Hokay then, other thoughts.

-What is the point of shieldwall? make it +2AS against shooting and normal shield in CC
-What happens when a unit in testudo (toirtoise) formation is charged? do they revert to standard formation? Possibly +3AS against shooting, no benefits in CC would be better (seems fluffier)
-Make Auxilla 6pts each, that puts them on par with empire state-troops
-Perhaps have chariots as a special choice. counts as two core choices is a bit too good.
-Cyclops are immune to phychology? stubborn and immune to panic seems slightly more in character.
-Praetorian guard are unbreakable?!?!?. Stubborn! Stubborn I say!!!
-What is the point of a consul?

I think that's about all I can find. Good luck with the list.
Cheers
Poly

Angelripper
09-10-2005, 12:19
Well the Shieldwall Special rule indeed adds a +2 armour save instead of the +1 a normal shield does but it has no use in cc. My thought was that they use their large round Shield (Hoplon) to prtoect themselves against incoming fire, than when engaged they swing it to the back so they can hold their Pike to stake everyone who is foolish enough to attack. I didn't forget that the Pike is a two handed weapon and that you can't use it at the same time as a shield.

Tortoise or Testudo Formation. They revert to standard formation so they can fight the enemy more effectively. I don't want them to have the Ubersave because they are simple men with good training and quite good equipment. The souldn't in any way look like a lightweight Chaoswarrior. So the just gain a +1 Armour against shooting when they are in Testudoformation

Agreed on the 6 Points for the Auxilia. Maybe with the option to skirmish for + 2 Points?

Chariots. damn, theyare special choises. I just made a copy&paste error. My fault!

I made the cyclops imune to Psychology to represent the fact that they are just to stupid to realise what happens around them.

The Preatorians are the Best of the best. They are the centerpiece of every Legion and their devotion to the Consul is total so they would never flee as long as he is alive. What about Stuborn but Unbreakable as long as the Consul is alive?

The Consul should act more like the Commanding General and give his ld where it's needed. He ist not the fighting Commander that what the Tribun is for.

polymphus
09-10-2005, 20:06
-The whole sane-but-unbreakable humans thing is a bit ofan issue to me. Perhaps they're unbreakable when the consul is in their unit and stubborn normally?
-+3AS was a bit of an eggegeration(sp?) on my part:angel: I just meant give them some really good anti missile protection since iirc the testudo would let in roughly one in about 80 arrows. Since this would be massivly unbalanced maybe something like they get +1as and all missile weapons must reroll successful rolls to wound or something.
-Didn't actually realize the consul was Ld10:p once again that's my fault.
-shieldwall is good, just wanted to clarify
-skirmishing auxilla? I'm dubious (if that is a real expression)
Cheers
Poly

Angelripper
09-10-2005, 21:09
-The whole sane-but-unbreakable humans thing is a bit ofan issue to me. Perhaps they're unbreakable when the consul is in their unit and stubborn normally?
What about Stubborn and imune to Panic? should do the trick.


-+3AS was a bit of an eggegeration(sp?) on my part:angel: I just meant give them some really good anti missile protection since iirc the testudo would let in roughly one in about 80 arrows. Since this would be massivly unbalanced maybe something like they get +1as and all missile weapons must reroll successful rolls to wound or something.


Done. Only +1AS when someone shoots at them. I don't think that the enemy should re-roll successful hits, might be a bit cheesy


-Didn't actually realize the consul was Ld10:p once again that's my fault.
:)

-shieldwall is good, just wanted to clarify
:D

-skirmishing auxilla? I'm dubious (if that is a real expression)
Skirmish would give them the abillity to fight like duellists, well without second hand weapon but with better armour save.

anarchistica
12-10-2005, 01:23
I've been thinking about this too for a while, i'm a history student with a particular interest in military history so there should be at least some validity in what i say. :p

Legionaires
Psychology:
They should be Stubborn until they flee for any reason. Lower/non-Remans (Auxilia, Sagitaires, Barbarians, etc) don't cause Panic in them.

Early and late Legionaries:
The Testudo formation had several incarnations, the most notable change occured during their campaigns against the Parths. Under Crassus their testudo left some holes to exploit, under Marc Anthony they'd improved the formation by "putting in" an additional shield (i.e. feet were protected, etc) when immobile. I'd say leave Testudo like it is now but rename it Lock Shields and change the wording to +1 save against ranged attacks. For +2 points/model, you can upgrade them to Late Legionaires. Their save bonus is increased by an additional +1 when they reform into Testudo formation, this formation is abandoned when they're charged or move themselves. Also, the pilum changed over time too. I think the WAB rules for it are very appropriate, though when upgraded to Late Legionaires their throwing spears follow the rules for throwing axes (i.e. +1S).

Elite:
These guys are far better than Hoplites, they should definitely be better in the game too. Perhaps even Special.


Sagitaires
Auxilia/Roman:
These guys were often, especially in the early and later days, recruited from auxilia (from Crete/Numidia in the early days, Parthia in later times). Many Romans were trained to use bows (and war machines), but specialisation was rare. I'd say have an option to upgrade them to "green" Legionaires, giving them Light Armour and +1LD for +1 point/model.


Auxilia
Formation:
Auxilia come in many shapes and forms. In WAB they have fairly appropriate rules and i think some of this should be transfered to WFB. They should always move in "tribal/savage/whatever formation" which is a crossbreed between ranked and skirmishing. They can move at full speed but not march in woods/forest/jungle. Their rank bonus is halved (i.e. they need 3 ranks for +1 and 5 ranks for +2) and limited to +2.

Equipment:
Light armour should not be standard but an option for +1 point. Spears also should cost +1 point, not +2.

Base cost:
A normal human costs 4 points, sounds right for these guys too.


Equites
Stats:
They should have In 4.

Optio:
He should cost +12/+14 points.


War Chariot

I don't like these rules at all. Romans didn't use chariots, only barbarians did. I don't think it'd work.

Reman Phalanx
Hoplites/Phalanx:
Though Hoplites fought in Phalanx formation, the term Phalanx is usually used for Macedonians. I'd rename them or make two different units. Phalangites more often were professional soldiers, much like Spartan Hoplites. Those should have WS4 while WS3 is fine for normal non-Spartan Hoplites.

Equipment:
Hoplites had spears, Phalangites pikes. Hoplite spears would be used in 2-3 ranks, the front-most Phalangites had 5 speartips between them and the enemy (5 ranks). Hoplites used the aspis (yes aspis, not hoplon) which they carried on their arms (elbow & hand), Phalangites carried tiny shields by a neckstrap. I'd give Hoplites spears and shields, Phalangites pikes, light armour and shields.

Shieldwall:
Simply give them the Lock Shields rule too.


Reman Knights
Command Group:
The Champion and Standard Bearer should cost 16 points, the Musician 8 points.

Knights of Legend:
Ugh.


Barbarian Tribes
Frenzy:
Not sure if they should be frenzied, the whole berserkir thing really comes from Vikings. Also, like in WAB, they should have similar rules to the Auxilia above. No full rank bonus, lower basic Ld.


Reman Slingers
Ballistic Skill:
They're only human so should have BS3, especially seeing as they use slings.

Equipment:
I don't think they should have light armour, shields (bucklers) would be a basic item.

Stealthy:
This is rather nonsensical.


Praetorian Guard 0 to 1
Myth:
Now Praetorian Guard were really just normal Legionaires who happened to be loyal to the Imperial Family. Aside from this loyalty, they weren't anything special and rarely if ever saw actual combat. Making them a special unit with +1Ld and Stubborn (if you won't make normal Legionaires Stubborn these guys at least should be). No sane person can be Unbreakable, it is reserved for Slayers, Flagellants and troops who very much literally lack brains (undead).


Repeating Ballistas
Cost:
They're only WS3 BS3 Ld7 humans, so this thing should be cheaper. You could also have a crwe upgrade, making them Legionairs (they were trained to use ballistas) who have higher WS & Ld and wear light armour. Even those should cost less than Elven RBTs (80-90 points).


Titan
Casting:
I don't really like the Titan at all but there is one golden rule for non-characters: Their magical abilities must be severely restricted. Making a Rare choice a Level 3 Wizard is really, really unbalancing. Make him cast two spells as Bound Spells with a Power Level of 3 or 4, but leave it at that.


Consul
Chariots:
Aside from in victory parades Roman Generals didn't ride in chariots.


Tribun
Rank:
A Tribun is a lower ranking magistrate, lower than a Consul in any case. Making him some kind of Empire Grand Master is rather silly.

Highpriest/Priest
Function:
In Roman armies the function of Priests was handling the ritual part of divination as well as indicating what signs should be seen. Strange signs could be explained by them as well. Perhaps simply make them Priests that add dispel dice and can cast bound spells involving divination? (i.e. re-rolls and such)

Angelripper
14-10-2005, 22:55
Legionaires
Psychology:
They should be Stubborn until they flee for any reason. Lower/non-Remans (Auxilia, Sagitaires, Barbarians, etc) don't cause Panic in them.

Early and late Legionaries:
The Testudo formation had several incarnations, the most notable change occured during their campaigns against the Parths. Under Crassus their testudo left some holes to exploit, under Marc Anthony they'd improved the formation by "putting in" an additional shield (i.e. feet were protected, etc) when immobile. I'd say leave Testudo like it is now but rename it Lock Shields and change the wording to +1 save against ranged attacks. For +2 points/model, you can upgrade them to Late Legionaires. Their save bonus is increased by an additional +1 when they reform into Testudo formation, this formation is abandoned when they're charged or move themselves. Also, the pilum changed over time too. I think the WAB rules for it are very appropriate, though when upgraded to Late Legionaires their throwing spears follow the rules for throwing axes (i.e. +1S).

Elite:
These guys are far better than Hoplites, they should definitely be better in the game too. Perhaps even Special.

I think a Core Unit that's stubborn would be not very balanced. Sure the Romans don't panic much but to be true they never faced Deamons, Undead etc. Maybe Imune to Panic but anything more than that left a bad taste with me.
I keep the Name Testudo, not because its the right one but it's more known. If someone hears about Romans & special Abbilities they would think, yeah the Testudo, tortoise whatsoever. Lock Shields is right but at least in my gaming group Historyknowlegde is not that widespread. I think the Corechoice would serve them right cause they should after all be the Backbone in my Army even if it's not an entirely Roman one. More Mediteranian Antiquity meets WFB.


Sagitaires
Auxilia/Roman:
These guys were often, especially in the early and later days, recruited from auxilia (from Crete/Numidia in the early days, Parthia in later times). Many Romans were trained to use bows (and war machines), but specialisation was rare. I'd say have an option to upgrade them to "green" Legionaires, giving them Light Armour and +1LD for +1 point/model.


Auxilia
Formation:
Auxilia come in many shapes and forms. In WAB they have fairly appropriate rules and i think some of this should be transfered to WFB. They should always move in "tribal/savage/whatever formation" which is a crossbreed between ranked and skirmishing. They can move at full speed but not march in woods/forest/jungle. Their rank bonus is halved (i.e. they need 3 ranks for +1 and 5 ranks for +2) and limited to +2.

Equipment:
Light armour should not be standard but an option for +1 point. Spears also should cost +1 point, not +2.

Base cost:
A normal human costs 4 points, sounds right for these guys too.

Sounds good. As far as I remember my Schoolhistory lessons Cretan Archers were quite feared in those days. As for the Skirmishing special Rule there is only one other existing rule that comes close to it and that would be the one from the Gor/Ungor in the BoC. (Only got the German version so I don't know the original Name) I think that they may have adapted a bit of civilisation so they just get Skirmish.
The Equipmentcosts are done!
4 Points? I don't know a 4 Point Human knows the bad end of a sword but I think he never used on so he would be WS2. The Auxilia got some training thats why they got their WS3 I think the 6 Points suits them well.


Equites
Stats:
They should have In 4.

Optio:
He should cost +12/+14 points.

I can follow you on the point costs but why In 4?


War Chariot

I don't like these rules at all. Romans didn't use chariots, only barbarians did. I don't think it'd work.

If my memory serves me right the Pre-republic Romans used Chariots anyway its as I said above not only a roman list. As far as I know the Persian Troops used Scythed chariots so did the seleucids after the Death of Alexander and the destruction of his Empire.


Reman Phalanx
Hoplites/Phalanx:
Though Hoplites fought in Phalanx formation, the term Phalanx is usually used for Macedonians. I'd rename them or make two different units. Phalangites more often were professional soldiers, much like Spartan Hoplites. Those should have WS4 while WS3 is fine for normal non-Spartan Hoplites.

Equipment:
Hoplites had spears, Phalangites pikes. Hoplite spears would be used in 2-3 ranks, the front-most Phalangites had 5 speartips between them and the enemy (5 ranks). Hoplites used the aspis (yes aspis, not hoplon) which they carried on their arms (elbow & hand), Phalangites carried tiny shields by a neckstrap. I'd give Hoplites spears and shields, Phalangites pikes, light armour and shields.

Shieldwall:
Simply give them the Lock Shields rule too.

Right on the Hoplon part. Hoplon desribed the whole Equipment a Hoplite had to bring with him, his shield was the Aspis. My Fault. :D
I go for splitting the Entry. Normal Hoplites with thrusting Spear which can fight in 3 Ranks and WS3 go core so you can do an all Greek lists or an all roman list. Phalangites will get the Pike (Sarissa) WS 4 and stay special!


Reman Knights
Command Group:
The Champion and Standard Bearer should cost 16 points, the Musician 8 points.

Knights of Legend:
Ugh.
Points will be adjusted.
Knights of legend? :angel: jep got inspired by King Arthur after all it's Fantasy


Barbarian Tribes
Frenzy:
Not sure if they should be frenzied, the whole berserkir thing really comes from Vikings. Also, like in WAB, they should have similar rules to the Auxilia above. No full rank bonus, lower basic Ld.

Well berserks (sp?) were also a German Warrior caste whos feared nothing more than the so called "strohtod" roughly translated Death by natural causes. Maybe they can get the BoC Gor/Ungor special rule I still don't know the english term for.


Reman Slingers
Ballistic Skill:
They're only human so should have BS3, especially seeing as they use slings.

Equipment:
I don't think they should have light armour, shields (bucklers) would be a basic item.

Stealthy:
This is rather nonsensical.

Guildy of Fanboyship for balearic Slingers! They will get BS3 and get the shield as equipment the light armour will be dropped!


Praetorian Guard 0 to 1
Myth:
Now Praetorian Guard were really just normal Legionaires who happened to be loyal to the Imperial Family. Aside from this loyalty, they weren't anything special and rarely if ever saw actual combat. Making them a special unit with +1Ld and Stubborn (if you won't make normal Legionaires Stubborn these guys at least should be). No sane person can be Unbreakable, it is reserved for Slayers, Flagellants and troops who very much literally lack brains (undead).
The cohors praetoria the Bodyguardunit for the General (or his tent:evilgrin: ) were nothing special until Octavian (Augustus) organised them. Their Cohorts were bigger, up to 1500 men. They got better equipment and were paid better. And they had much more time for training because they were not the armed construction workers the normal Legionaires seem to be.
Anyway I think you got a point that they are a bit more sane than the lunatics which are unbreakable in WFB so I go for +1 LD and Stubborn. Not sure about Special Choise yet.


Repeating Ballistas
Cost:
They're only WS3 BS3 Ld7 humans, so this thing should be cheaper. You could also have a crwe upgrade, making them Legionairs (they were trained to use ballistas) who have higher WS & Ld and wear light armour. Even those should cost less than Elven RBTs (80-90 points).

100 Points may be a bit much but I didn't want to get the Cheesestamp
If someone second the lower costs I'll change it but until that I won't. The RBTs are killers at least when my Druchii take them out to play


Titan
Casting:
I don't really like the Titan at all but there is one golden rule for non-characters: Their magical abilities must be severely restricted. Making a Rare choice a Level 3 Wizard is really, really unbalancing. Make him cast two spells as Bound Spells with a Power Level of 3 or 4, but leave it at that.

I simply used the Rules for the tzeentch Shaggoth, changed the Lore and gave him another Spell for about 50 Points. I thought with 450 Points a Rare and a Special Choice he might slip through :evilgrin: Well he will get redesigned!

Angelripper
14-10-2005, 23:02
Consul
Chariots:
Aside from in victory parades Roman Generals didn't ride in chariots.

Right but as I said before the List isn't all Roman. romans wouldn't do that, a Greek general maybe does. Like the Greek Heroes in the Trojan wars



Tribun
Rank:
A Tribun is a lower ranking magistrate, lower than a Consul in any case. Making him some kind of Empire Grand Master is rather silly.

The Magistrate thing is right but tribunes were also in the Legions as commanding Officers, called tribuni militares or tribuni militum I just droped the last part of the Name but that can be changed :D


Highpriest/Priest
Function:
In Roman armies the function of Priests was handling the ritual part of divination as well as indicating what signs should be seen. Strange signs could be explained by them as well. Perhaps simply make them Priests that add dispel dice and can cast bound spells involving divination? (i.e. re-rolls and such)
Thats right but I didn't want to invent a whole new Spell list so I just took the DoW entry for Wizards and renamed it. after all the list should be a bit competitive :cheese: :cheese: :cheese:

I'll change the entrys a bit later because its real late now and I got to go to work tomorrow.
Thanks for your interesst in the list and the informative suggestions I'm always pleased when I get constructive cricts (sp?)


Regards
Angelripper

Angelripper
31-10-2005, 21:04
closed due to lack of interest.
Thanks for support everyone