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View Full Version : Elven Princes - what do they do for you, and how do you equip them to do it?



Treadhead_1st
18-11-2007, 12:21
The question in the title arose from pondering about my armylist.

I was contemplating using a Prince, in a unit of White Lions. Yet I couldn't help thinking "what benefit does he provide that something else doesn't already?"

This came down to an abundance of possible Str 6 attacks (with Greatweapon) - but then his Bodyguard have that covered.

The Leadership is undeniable - but that means you have to tank him up for protection, sacrificing his potential killing power.


So I was wondering what people use Princes for, if they use them at all, and how would you equip one?

I am tempted by the Blade of Leaping Gold, for a total of 7 Str4 attacks - that will put the smack-down on any rival Infantry regiment, especially if flanked (and the Bodyguard take the big gribblies). Yet it's no more powerful than the rival infantry either...

Alternative is the White Sword, to gt that bonus strength to take on Monsters (something my list is weak against) - yet there are so few attacks, I could get a Noble and several more White Lions for the cost of the price - more Str6 smackdown than the Prince provides alone.


Mounting the Prince is an option, but that then takes the advantage of his high leadership away from the Infantry (have 67 Infantry, 15 Cavalry in my list) blocks who need it more, I guess.

Please can someone share insight on how you do/would use a High Elf prince on foot?

Many thanks to anyone who takes the time to look & respond to this.

Alathir
18-11-2007, 15:12
This is my high elf build

white sword
armour of caledor
guardian phoenix
talisman of loec

This guy can go toe to toe with the best of them, combining killing blow with forcing enemy characters and such to re-roll their precious ward saves with the talisman is great. Plus, he is quite survivable...

My other is..

vambraces of defense
armour of caledor
either talisman or amulet of light
great weapon

this guy is uber survivable and will ensure your keeping leadership 10, plus he also has decent killing power. 4 strength 6 attacks at weapon skill 7 that always strike first is nothing to sneeze at.

I have found a good use for princes is placing them in your non-elites, namely spearmen. This forces the enemy into some tricky situations as even his characters and elite units will have second thoughts before engaging your 9 point elven spearmen.

So in conclusion, use him to boost units that dont have uber killing power.

paspinall
18-11-2007, 16:05
My prince joins one of my Spearmen units to provide some omph as the elite infantry seem to have plenty of their own

I usually give him a GW, the Radient gem of Hoeth and some protection,

Taken with the Lore of beasts meaning e can cast bears anger on himself he can be quite killy

Chiungalla
18-11-2007, 16:08
One of my three prince builds looks very similar to that one of alathir.

So here the other two:
- Barded steed
- dragon armor
- shield
- helm of fortune
- talisman of saphery
- blade of sea gold

This one can take the enemy characters while his dragon princes deal with the rest of the unit.

- great weapon
- armor of caledor
- vambraces of defense
- talisman of loec or maybe the gem of courage

The same as above for a unit of special choice infantry.

Treadhead_1st
18-11-2007, 16:28
How about this version - in a unit packing great weapons to protect him from shooting/monsters:

Prince: Blade of Leaping Gold, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Protection & Talisman of Loec.
274

Gives 7 Attacks at Strength 4.

Basically, he can challenge Unit Champions to rack up massive combat-resolution. Or, if flanking, just slaughters through the side of the enemy formation, near-as-dang-it always going first (ASF, high I when not) etc.

He doesn't have much armour - just 3+/6+, so can't really take a hit, but against Characters etc that are likely to out the hurt on him, he can challenge (leaving the monster to the bodyguard), use the Talisman of Loec to force as many of his many attacks through as possible, and since he is going first he should be OK - still has an outside chance of stopping attacks from opponents that survive.

If it's something REALLY tough (Treeman Ancient, Bretonnian Duke w/o Gauntlet of Duel), he refuses the challenge and lets the bodyguard do it instead.

There are better outfits against Characters, such as packing the White Sword and Talisman of Loec (as KB ignores Regenerate), but this guy should carve through enemy regiments, and still have a shot against Characters.


Also, may I ask WHY you use a Prince, as opposed to a Noble? What do they provide your force that something else cannot do better & cheaper? This is the dilemma I have, and I wish to see why people choose the Prince.

Kloud13
19-11-2007, 00:55
I like my prince in with a unit of DP's, with BSB, gives any surrounding units a re-rollable leadership test, on a 10.

And that Prince has

The Armour of Calador (Spelling?)
The Magic Lance
Vambrance of Defence

So, On the Charge he has 4 Strength 7 attacks that ignore armour, and a re-rollable 2+ Armour Save, followed by 4+ Ward save.

He is in with a Unit of Dragon Princes, which have a War Banner (+1 to combat res in addition to having a banner) and a BSB with the Battle Banner (+D6 to combat Res in addition to the BSB)

Worse case scenario, The Banners in that unit add +4 to my combat Res (Best Case +9) and I have a killing machine (only on charge mind you) Prince Leading unit.

Prince - Strength 7 attacks, no Armour save X4
Dragon Princes - Strenth 5 Attacks X 7 (only 3 DP's in front rank, due to Prince and BSB in Front Rank as well)
Battle Standard Bearer - Strength 6 Attacks X 3 (BSB can take a Lance and Shield now)

All those attacks plus Banners, Only certain Stubborn troops will give you grief.

feintstar
19-11-2007, 01:12
Here's something you could do, though it would be a little wierd (no-one would expect it though) if you put a Prince with, say, a barded Elf Steed and the Vambraces of Defence with a Starlance in a unit of Spearmen. ("what?" I hear you say?)

Then, your spears unit can not only defend quite well, but be absolutely horrible to someone on the charge. Also, if a unit of cav/monster line up ready to charge you, the Prince can ride out by himself, and He'd probably win. He certainly wouldn't die, and if he ran away, there's the elf regiment behind him to deal with whatever depleted bad guy comes through. Further, your infantry still get to use his mighty Ld.

The other reason to take a Prince over the noble is for the radiant gem, imo. You deck out a prince as if for a noble, but then add the radiant gem, and you have dispel power to contribute, and if you're on foot, bears anger can mix things up a little.

CHOOBER SNIPES
19-11-2007, 02:11
Kloud just something, dont waste armor of caledor on a mounted character, giv him dragon armor, barding, enchanted shield, same cost, but he has 1+armor save, and u can giv armor of caledor to another guy. Also, how about this, block of 28 spears with prince with blade of leaping gold, guardian phoenix dragon armor and enchanted shield. I know he only has 3+/5+ save, but cmon thats just funny, 7 ws7 str 4 attacks, 21 ws4 str3 attacks, all ASF. thats a nasty surprise for most guys. also the vambraces of defence+armor of caledor+great weapon is one of my favorite builds, it works really well. another good one is on a noble, u take armor of caledor, great weapon, and if u hav extra points guardian phoenix. its a 2+/5+ save model with 3 WS6 S6 ASF attacks that costs 143 points. 118 pts. if u dont take the phoenix. BTW i just thought of something funny. if u fight a forest spirit WE army, take the 15 pt. amulet of light, cus u get magical attacks that therefore dont allow forest spirit 5+ ward save. imagine that on ur spears or an elite cus they can take it on unit champ, sucks for those dryads.

Dead Man Walking
19-11-2007, 02:38
I would like to put him on a flying mount and give him the magic bow that counts as a bolt thrower. This really ony works as a surprise against an opponent once, espeacially to give you a flank shot down a row of chosen chaos knights. Hitting on a 2+, wounding on a 2, 3, 4 ,5, 6.

After the first surprise attack your going to be absorbing a lot of magic/missile fire because no one wants that monster running around.

Kloud13
19-11-2007, 04:15
@CHOOBER

I goofed, I looked at my list that I had used, and I had done it just as you said, Dragon armour and Shield. Armour of Caledor 25pts, Star Lance, 40pts, Vambrance of Defence, 55pts. Well over 100. oops, I was thinking of different character build when I posted earlier.

Tempest Dust
19-11-2007, 09:26
For a Prince on foot who has joined a unit of Spearmen: Blade of Leaping Gold, Enchanted Shield, Helm of Fortune, dragon armour. For a unit of 5x4 ranks of spears, he would provide an additional 7 S4 attacks, for a total of 22 attacks in the front, with ASF. Enough to hold most would-be-attackers at bay, unless they are heavily armoured

enyoss
19-11-2007, 11:50
With the new book I think the following is quite effective (even if it isn't very imaginative...):

Prince, The White Sword, Guardian Phoenix, Talisman of Loec.

Bascially, his basic 4 S6 attacks (with Killing Blow) should save guard him against most basic troops. The only thing you really have to worry about is a tough Lord level character which is when the Talisman of Loec acts to almost guarantee a successful Killing Blow (it's that 're-roll Ward saves' bit that does it... and the fact that you can re-roll successful wounding dice which aren't sixes).

There's still another 25 points of allowance too if you wanted to do something with it. The Helm of Fortune would be particularly good, although I've avoided it as my Prince model is unarmoured, hence the absence of any armour at all :D.

I'm quite surprised at the number of posters advocating the Blade of Leaping Gold. As far as I'm aware it's only better than a great weapon against the most lightly armoured of troops (5+ armour save or worse) and even then it leaves you seriously lacking against cavalry and characters.

Cheers,

enyoss

Faust
19-11-2007, 13:53
Prince
Bow of the Seafarer
Armor of Caledor
Great Weapon

15 Points to send on whatever.

I took the Amulet of light. Just so he can hop into which ever unit needs the magical attacks, Spear elves, Sword Masters, White Lions, or Phoenix Guard. Also I find another bolt thrower always fun. No ward save due to most High Magic Mages will have the 5+ one. Granted I am relying on magic but eh. And with the ASF a great weapon is great. Besides who doesn't want to stand and shoot with a Bolt Thrower?

~Faust

smileyface
19-11-2007, 18:06
I was contemplating using a Prince, in a unit of White Lions. Yet I couldn't help thinking "what benefit does he provide that something else doesn't already?"


Depends how much you like LD 10, I think. Personally I think the BSB morale effect is better.

I think the point of a prince (or indeed any character) lies in the things other units cannot do. Most of these mean not being on foot, but run with it:

3D6 pursuit move (when on a horse in a unit of infantry).
S7 on the charge (don't like it myself, but it's an option).
S6 (useful in any unit except white lions).
Bow of the Seafarer (only sensible place to take this).
Big flying monster.
Taking apart enemy characters.

Personally, I don't like the second or sixth option, I wouldn't use the fifth very often, and I don't like horses in elf infantry because the ranking is too fiddly.

Chiungalla
19-11-2007, 18:20
3D6 pursuit move (when on a horse in a unit of infantry).

He can not pursuit out of a unit he is in.
It's in the rules.

bop
19-11-2007, 19:08
i tried mine out today.
he had heavy armour, shield,bow,halberd and the null stone he rode a tiranoc chariot.
i found he worked well stopping a wizard from using hisi tems and casting spells but my dragon mage got to close and lost his much needed ward save...#
bop

Xzazzarai
19-11-2007, 19:30
Hello, i'm new here! This's gonna be my first post. =)

I'm thinkin' of starting up a Highl Elf army.
I have some thoughts of how to build it with specials, cores etc... But the characters.
I'm gonna have the dragon mage, no question about it! But then i have one Lord and one Hero choice left. I was thinking of taking an Archmage and a Noble. But, sience most ppls here tend to prefer Princes befor Nobles (from what I can see), i'm not sure of it any more.
I think I need the archmage to boost my magic to compensate for the lack of other ranged attacks (thouhg I am taking 2 RBTs, atleast).
But what do you think? Is a dragon mage (lvl2) and a second mage (lvl2) enaugh?
And is the Prince so much better than the Noble, that i can't afford the archmage?
I'm really struggling with this question now... =/

Btw, sry if my English aint the best... =)

W0lf
19-11-2007, 20:08
Take a archmage instead and then take the phoneix of white lion characters in their dedicated units?

Id seriously never take anythign but a lvl 4 wizard as my lord in a high elf army. Your troops dont need the Lords small boost over a nobles.

"But what do you think? Is a dragon mage (lvl2) and a second mage (lvl2) enaugh? "

maybe. But id much rather have a lvl 4 and lvl 2 then take the +1 power dice item and be on 9 pd.

It depends on who/where you play. In my gaming group 2 lvl 2's wouldnt cast anything ever nor be enough defense.

Kloud13
20-11-2007, 00:38
That is what I like about the Dragon Mage, Lvl 2 with a silver wand, he should easily be able to make 3 casting attempt with his reckless rule. That should burn out your opponents dispell dice enough for a second lvl 2 wizard to get a spell off.

And, if your second lvl 2 has High Magic, he too has 3 spells. (Drain Magic)

Salteris
20-11-2007, 01:48
Hehe, Stardragon Prince.

Armor of caledor,
Vanbraces,
GW and Amulet of Light.

Str 5 all the time, Str 6 if the Dragon falls. Magic attacks for the dragon also, die wood elves.


Or another build

White Sword,
Helm of Fortune,
Guardian Phoenix,
and Talisman of Loec.

Put in a unit of PG with mage (seer and Dscroll), pick bears and cower. Cower is for Chariots. I'd take a dragon mage as an filler for the rest of your Hero's. Killing blow still works while bears in on, and T4 helps where his armor save is lacking. Killing 1st is where he's best at. Just don't let big un-ridden Monsters hit him.

Dosadi
20-11-2007, 02:07
Prince: Lance, dragon armour, shield, Null Stone, Star Dragon.
Kills everything...dead.


Dosadi

Caradryan
20-11-2007, 03:14
Not sure if it has been said but here is mine

Prince: Radient Gem (choosing Lore of Beasts; Bears Anger), Armour of Caledor, Guardian Pheonix, and a Great Weapon

He goes in a unit of 15-20 PG to give them some hiting power, because they are virtually undistuctable, they carry the banner of socery and the champ carries the item that makes all attacks by the beare and unit count as magical (as I usually play against wood elfs, learns them tree spirits)
I also take 2-3 lvl 2 mages

He has 7 St6 attacks and tough 4 when the spell gets off, plus generates an extra dispell dice per turn, causes your enemy to realy think what he wants to scroll or dispell, and if the spell does not get off he still has 4 S6 attacks. Not to mention a 2+ armour save and 5+ ward save

SpeedyGoat
20-11-2007, 04:24
The answer is: it doesn't matter what the prince has because a WE/Ancient with Annoyance of Nettlings will beat you.

Chiungalla
20-11-2007, 05:25
The answer is: it doesn't matter what the prince has because a WE/Ancient with Annoyance of Nettlings will beat you.

And there is no need to go into close combat with an ancient at all, if you have magic and repeater boldthrowers.


I was thinking of taking an Archmage and a Noble. But, sience most ppls here tend to prefer Princes befor Nobles (from what I can see), i'm not sure of it any more.

No, we don't but this thread is about princes, not about nobles.

TheSanityAssassin
20-11-2007, 06:10
Hmm...I like that Bear's Anger idea.....*ponder*

feintstar
20-11-2007, 10:22
I tend to go with the bear's anger trick with a BSB. Other thing with that is that the Shadow archmage can wing him across the field...

Elhier
20-11-2007, 18:01
i havent heard of the shadow archmage tell me how that works.

i personaly like using either prince with:
shadow armour
bow of the sea farer
and a great weapon.
plenty of points left for tinkering, and a nice suprise when a unit of knights decides to come a wondering my way.

or this is a nasty one for lurking mages:
prince with:
shadow armour
foe bane,
that gem that gives you magic res 1
and enchated shield.

Chiungalla
20-11-2007, 18:23
i havent heard of the shadow archmage tell me how that works.

The shadow magic spell number 1 can give a unit strengh 1 model a flying movement....

Corrupt
20-11-2007, 18:37
Its Steed of Shadows.
Use it to fling chars around. Another nice combo is Steed of Shadows+Crown of Taidron (fling mage 20" behind big enemy blocks, then all enemy blocks within 12" take d6 str4 hits.

Xzazzarai
21-11-2007, 00:05
No, we don't but this thread is about princes, not about nobles.

Ah, yeah. sry :)

Maarten K
21-11-2007, 08:58
unless your planning to use some special combo, always mount your characters, they can't be singled out, even when joining infantry, and you get an effective 2+ armour save without using your magic item allowance.

give him the sword that ignores armour saves plus the vambraces of defence and put him in a unit of infantry: he gives the unit a beter than even chance against charging cav (al the other weapons still allow saves, even with str6 that is often still a 4+), while the infantry finisches the other unit of.

oh, and the white sword should never be used: 40 points for killingblow is way to expensive.

Xzazzarai
21-11-2007, 09:36
I'd like to know what kind of armies you are facing Maarten K. If you most of the time get the AS down to 4+ with Str 6. That means they have 1+ to start with. It's only units like chosen Knights och Chaos who has that kind of save. Only very heavy infantry have 4+ (3+ with shield if armed with HW in CC) and that still goes down to 6+ if you have Str 6...

Fraggzy
21-11-2007, 10:19
I would take a prince on a barded warhorse, with blade of leaping gold that would give him 7 attacks and then give him the reaver bow, 3 S5 shoots, then rome the map with him and kill characters, smal regiments, warmachines ad just to support other regiments

Prince Sairion
21-11-2007, 10:31
If I ever did take a Prince (despite my title you'd think I would) he'd have to be mounted on either a dragon or horse. I don't see the point of not putting a 'fighty' hero on a horse as the armour save is just what you need as a he player.

When I get round to playing with my whole army good 'ol Prince Sairion will be on a star dragon, maybe with Adam Troke's gauntlets. Until the he'll play tiddlewinks with the noble on chariot I'm making - as he is generally redundant too.

Archmage and bsb every time at 2k:)

Maarten K
21-11-2007, 10:51
I'd like to know what kind of armies you are facing Maarten K. If you most of the time get the AS down to 4+ with Str 6. That means they have 1+ to start with. It's only units like chosen Knights och Chaos who has that kind of save. Only very heavy infantry have 4+ (3+ with shield if armed with HW in CC) and that still goes down to 6+ if you have Str 6...

dwarves, empire, chaos...

the only enemy units highelves struggle against nowadays (apart form chariots) is heavy cavalry, simply because their save lets them absorb the SoA attacks. by having a sword that completely ignores armour saves you can rely on getting a few casualties, even when facing cav. You only get str 6 on foot, not on a horse, which you realy want to be on, because otherwise you'll have to invest in the dragon armour. str5, which you can get on horseback, is not enough because it means that the enemy still saves atleast half of the wounds you cause.

eleveninches
22-11-2007, 12:13
Vambraces of defence
Enchanted Shield
Lance
Star Dragon
Heavy Armour
Maybe a talisman of loec or gem of courage



Cheaper one:
Great Eagle
Bow of the Seafarer
Heavy Armour
Helm of Fortune
Shield
Talisman of Protection