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View Full Version : My first Fantasy list, FOR THE EMPIRE 2000pts



Warlord Kyle
19-11-2007, 02:45
After playing as tyranids, orks and dark eldar i thought that if i entered fantasy i would go with the good guys, the empire. Im really new to this and any sujjestions would help me, im currently borrowing all these models from a friend as i built up my own army. I want to see what everyone thinks.

155 General of the Empire with wyrmslayer sword, meteoric iron armor and white cloak.
180 Luthur Huss
87 Master Engineer with light armor and hochland rifle

19 Halberdiers full command 140
15 Spearmen full command 104
21 Handgunners 168
10 Huntsmen 100
20 Milita 100

1 great cannon 100
5 outriders with barding, sergant and musican and a grenade-launching blunderbuss. 139
1 helblaster 110
2x 8 knights full command one squad white wolves

The general who is yes, ON FOOT, goes with the halberdiers. The milita and handgunners are detacments for the spearmen and halberdiers. If anyone has any suggestions please tell me. I want to NOT have a gunline army.

RavenBloodwind
19-11-2007, 03:17
Some thoughts:

You're not in any real danger of 'gunlining' here. 42 potential shots (not counting artillery) is not over the top, particularly when we look at your ranked infantry and chunky knight units in support.

For your characters:
You're very light on magic defense with only the spare dispel die from Luthor. I certainly think the token 'scroll caddie' is a good investment in most circumstances.

I personally hate special characters although GW has certainly gone above-and-beyond to promote them in 7th ed for dwarf, empire and high elves so far. A plain-jane warrior priest would do you fine.

A battle standard bearer is vital to Empire infantry armies for survival.

Most will tell you the Empire engineer is the absolute worst character choice in the game (perhaps tied with dark elf beastmasters). Given you're quickly running out of character slots I'd be tempted to let him stay home. If you're dead-set on having a hochland longrifle you could take a champion in a unit of handgunners and equip him with one. Not that I'm suggesting it's a good idea, just an option.

For your troops:
Big thing is small units. No rank-and-file empire infantry block should number under 20 and at 2k most would suggest 24-25 as a good number. Make the spears bigger for certain.

Or big units: your knights really are an inefficient size. At 8-strong they can't get a rank (need 5-wide) and anyone in the back isn't doing much. I'd look seriously into trimming them down to 6-strong. This will save you close to 100 pts you could spend on a scroll caddie, BSB, spearmen, okay you see where we're going...Alternatively, some people love their HUGE ranked up 10-12 man knight units. To me this just seems a bit silly as you've put a monster chunk of points into a unit that quickly becomes unwieldy on the table.

I'm also not sold on the grenade blunderbuss since it's relatively short range. If you're going up against high armor, high toughness troops (dragon ogres, chosen chaos knights) then I guess it might be helpful but frankly I'd be tempted to drop it to 5 plain outriders without a champ or leave the repeater handgun on the champ for more shots.

Warlord Kyle
19-11-2007, 20:07
the only problem is these are all the models my friend has to lend me as i build my own army, what is a scroll caddie? and where would the battle standard bearer go?

Also, i did have a mounted lvl 2 wizard in my army with the staff that gives you an extra dispel dice but in the 4 games i used him, he accomplish not one thing except 1 dead peasant,...which his horse killed...

Warlord Kyle
19-11-2007, 20:14
is it a good idea to have alot of characters in an empire army?
-waiting to be slapped if it is really obvious you should- :)

RavenBloodwind
19-11-2007, 20:37
A scroll caddie is a level 1 wizard carrying 2 dispel scrolls. He's there just to prevent 2 nasty spells over the course of the game, not to actually successfully cast anything (although that's a potential bonus). Your wizard should basically never be in combat unless you take lore of beasts and get bears anger cast on him.

I'd put the BSB in one of your infantry units.

As for 'lots of characters', they serve various roles, you need some Ld bonus (your general), some magic protection and a BSB which usually equates to at least 3 at 2k and 4 is certainly not unusual.

brambleten
19-11-2007, 20:46
drop the barding on the outriders, they need to be able to move fast, so there isnt much point in hindering their progress

W0lf
19-11-2007, 20:47
*Sigh*. here goes.

155 General of the Empire with wyrmslayer sword, meteoric iron armor and white cloak.

* No reason to take him over arch lector unless you desperatly want the magic banner. The one you havnt used.

180 Luthur Huss

*hes cool but a fat waste of points. A generic warrior priest is far superior for the points.

87 Master Engineer with light armor and hochland rifle

*master engineers are the worst hero in the game.

So you have no magic, no anti magic and no bsb.. hmmm

19 Halberdiers full command 140

*no where enough to ever win combat against almost anything.

15 Spearmen full command 104

*Too small once again. MINIMUM of 20 models. and even that sucks.

21 Handgunners 168

*Ill assume this is 2 units of 10 and a randomer? Empire generals worth their salt will tell you crossbowmen are better then handgunners.

10 Huntsmen 100
20 Milita 100

*Both suck and will do little but die. Easy Victory points for opponent.

1 great cannon 100

*Good. Thank god you have at least one. Id always say field 2 though.

5 outriders with barding, sergant and musican and a grenade-launching blunderbuss. 139

* I dont like them. Others do. Leave them as they are if you like them. Too fragile imo.

1 helblaster 110

*i love them. So fun and random. Though they are very unreliable and far from good. Id still field one everytime thou.

2x 8 knights full command one squad white wolves

*white wolves are worse then normal knights in just about everyway. 8 is also one of the worst numbers to field as a unit.

So lets see. Bare in mind im trying to keep as close to the original list as possible whilst making it winnable.

Arch Lector
Van Horstmens speculum, Holy relic, Arour of meteric iron, Great weapon.
225 pts

Warrior priest
Barded Steed, Sigil of sigmar, Sword of might, shield
136 pts

Lvl 2 Wizard
2 dispel scrolls
150 pts

Lvl 2 wizard
Rod of power,
130 pts

Solid magic defence. Good magic offense and a blance between killy combat characters and wizards. Should serve you well. 641 pts spent here. All crucial.

29 Swordsmen Full command
199 pts
Detchments: 5 Handgunners 40 pts
5 Handgunners 40 pts

*Arch lector joins here as a bunker. they can rely on 3 ranks, standard and often outnumber to give them a good combat score. They are far more surviavable then Halberdiers and the Handgunners make them a daunting prospect to charge.

25 Spearmen full command
145 pts
Detchments: 10 Handgunners 80 pts
9 Halberdiers 45 pts

*Far better unit. Can actually win combat now. The Halberdiers unit is a perfected strat. They field 3x3 to take up as small space as possible. Their job is to maybe kill a model and to get lots of static combat res by flankign and removing ranks.

10 Huntsmen 100

*hate them but your list. They can be good thou so ill leave them.

Thats much much better. You have a core that can put up a fight.
639 pts spent. Brining total to only 1300 pts.

2 great cannons + Helblaster
310 pts

Some real artilary. and no its not gunline.

5 outriders
barding, musican
118 pts

* cut down the unecessary stuff so when they just get shot down with a slight breeze itll be less of a blow.

1728 pts spent.


2x 8 knights full command one squad white wolves


Theirs two ways to go with this:

Take the warrior priest and put him on foot in the spearmen block (gets my vote) and then make the units small units of 5 with musican.

Make them one unit of 6 inner circle with a war banner. Rank in one line.

So my way:

2x 5 Knights with musician
246 pts.

*Its been tested numerous tiems tobe very effective. They are units that can be thrown away without real trouble. Use them to flank, support, take down shooting, warmachiens and wizards. they will serve you well.

Then the warrior priest on foot saves 14 pts.

leaving us with 40 pts left. Ill leave that to you.

So my full list:

Arch Lector - Joins swordsmen for survivability.
Van Horstmens speculum, Holy relic, Arour of meteric iron, Great weapon.
225 pts

Warrior priest - Joins spearmen. Hatred + fight in 2 ranks = good.
Sigil of sigmar, Sword of might, shield
122 pts

Lvl 2 Wizard
2 dispel scrolls
150 pts

Lvl 2 wizard
Rod of power,
130 pts

29 Swordsmen Full command
199 pts
Detchments: 5 Handgunners 40 pts
5 Handgunners 40 pts

25 Spearmen full command
145 pts
Detchments: 10 Handgunners 80 pts
9 Halberdiers 45 pts

5 Knights with musician
123 pts

5 Knights with musician
123 pts

5 Knights with musician
123 pts

5 outriders
barding, musican
118 pts

Great cannon
100 pts

Great cannon
100 pts

Helblaster Volley Gun
110 pts

1973 pts

6 Powerdice with 3 Bound spells
7 (!) dispel dice with two scrolls.

Then the rod of power to tailor your needs.

When re-writing the list i saw you could drop the huntsmen for 5 more knights. A brilliant swap imo. These guys are invaluable.

Fate
20-11-2007, 00:23
I think there should be a bit of shooting, not all of course, 2 to 3 cannons cause you need to kill dragons and stuff. cavalary ca be good but always remember to have a character inside or they won't do jackshit. a steam tank can be a major boost to combate but it's really up to you. Also bring 2 mages with 4 dispel scrolls, you can never have enough of them.

Warlord Kyle
20-11-2007, 03:10
y would i want the arch lector? also in my little experience my wizard did nothing at all. He was the flame lore everytime, is the grey or amathest one better?

vorac
20-11-2007, 03:45
you want an Arch lector because for 45 points more he gives you an extra dispel dice, gives hatred to the unit he leads and has some very usefull prayers and still at leadership 9, i personally don't think the General of the Empire is worth it anymore, i wouldn't use a Helblaster either much to unreliable.

W0lf
20-11-2007, 08:15
y would i want the arch lector?
Arch lector:

With van horstmans hes harder against any other lord then a the general.
He gives you TWO dispel dice.
He has TWO bound items.
His unit gets hatred.

Thats why.


also in my little experience my wizard did nothing at all. He was the flame lore everytime, is the grey or amathest one better?

2 wizards are 3x better then one. Add in the bound spell from the warrior priest ad the arch lector and your laughing.

Magic is good when in masse. Trust me.

Fate
21-11-2007, 00:03
Also if you bring 3 mages and an archlector in a war altar...
You can have 4 bound spells per turn (and a one off bound spell) plus 3 spells with the mages. All you need is the right combo... Like it was said, magic en mass is zeh good!:evilgrin:

Warlord Kyle
21-11-2007, 02:50
but what bound spell are u all taking about!?!? which one?

Fate
21-11-2007, 03:29
Warrior priests have one bound spell (AKA prayers) and the arch lector can cast 2 of them. The chariot casts a bound spell from lore of light, you chose which spell you want to cast and it's cast at it's base entry value.
Now give your mages a doomfire ring and you have another bound and give another mage a ring of volans for a one off bound spell.

Yup, zeh magics of zeh empire!

W0lf
21-11-2007, 16:28
My list is a farily decent list i feel.

Maxing out on bound spells isnt always a brilliant idea anyway, id rather take two scrolls on one and then rod of power (maybe volans) on the other.

The arch lector build i posted is one many empire generals will agree on being the best.

unless you put him on a war alter and drop relic for doomfire of course.

However id never field a war alter...

its a large target chariot!, wont survive past turn 2.

Fate
22-11-2007, 01:31
Actually i belive that the chariot is good, it has a ward save itself which is also transfered to the arch lector so it lasts.
Also i'd bring the shield of gorgon, sword of power and van horstmann's speculum. Ok the AS is not the best but against many a foe means strinking at STR 7, hitting on a 3+ and even rerolling your misses with 5 attacks while your opponent gets one punny attack at STR4 (or usually 5 with sword of might).

Warlord Kyle
22-11-2007, 03:32
my problem to be honest is a bretonnian player that 90% of my games will be against, i cant figure out how to defeart 4 colums of 9 knights....

Warlord Kyle
22-11-2007, 20:58
any ideas? every game so far ive been creamed...

Fate
23-11-2007, 02:40
Oh goody goody, 4 knights units to take down. They are like lambs to the slaughter if you play properly. Get 4 cannons but don't deploy at the front, deploy then backwards, near the edge of the table so that your opponent can only charge your cannons at the 3rd turn, so you get 3 rounds of fire with 4 cannons, now a few characters flying to guard against the pegasus and some Stanks will be his ultimate undoing since not only they have cannons, but hit hard on a charge.

Yup, it's a cannon line!
No, not a gunline. Cannon line!

Warlord Kyle
25-11-2007, 00:21
does anyone have any experience using a griffon?

Makarion
25-11-2007, 00:33
Yes; it dies, quickly.

A little less succint, then. The gryphon is stylish, but it doesn't have an armour save or a ward save (even if the general does, it won't get shared). By virtue of it flying around tends to be very visible, and thus vulnerable to missile fire or magic. As a result, you'll end up with a general on foot stranded far from his or her lines, and minus 200+ points for his former mount.

I'd suggest getting either the beardy emperor on his dragon, or sticking with horses. Unless you fancy the arch lector on his altar, of course, which is a very viable option.

Warlord Kyle
25-11-2007, 03:04
id like to try and avoid the war alter, i dont really want to depend on magic that much.

Heres a new army list idea:

245 1 Templar Grand Master Rune fang
170 5 inner circle knights full command

141 1 Warrior Priest shield, heavy armor, sword of sigmar

150 15 Flagellants
180 15 Greatswords full command
110 15 Spearmen full command
88 11 Handgunners
100 10 Huntsmen

Detachments
80 10 Handgunners
96 16 Halberdiers

129 5 outriders champion and musican
100 1 great cannon
110 1 Helblaster volley gun

300 1 Steam Tank

=1999pts
107 models

what does everyone think?